Small press now, or big publisher later?

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Old Hack

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I've written two novels and am wondering where to go next. I write literary fiction. And sorry if this sounds conceited and whining--that's not my intention, I just could really do with some advice here!

My first novel was loved by five of the ten editors who read it, who all wanted it. These editors worked at large presses: Harper Collins, Random House, etc. Comments from the editors at the time included things like, "The best submission I've read this year," and "a remarkable talent." (I only put those in to show off. I'll stop now.) However, their sales teams all voted against it, as they felt that it was too dark, too bleak, and would therefore be too difficult to sell, so in the end it was not taken on. I got my agent (a relatively big name--I turned down someone at PFD to go with her) on the strength of that novel, and she has told me that she will get it published one day but that in her opinion it's not a first novel, it's a second or perhaps third. She is very enthusiastic about it, even now.

I've recently finished my second novel and my agent has now told me that while she thinks it's wonderful, she doesn't think she can sell it. She says that while it's sophisticated and accomplished it's too "quiet", in that there's a lot of the characters' interior lives but not enough action, and the market at present demands things which could perhaps be adapted for film or TV.

We're going to wait a few weeks (everyone's away on their summer holidays at the moment) then decide what to do about it.

She's happy to submit both novels to smaller presses: but has told me she'd rather I wrote something else with more stuff happening, which she can submit to the bigger places, with a view to selling both existing novels to the larger presses eventually, once I have a Reputation. She is convinced that I will get there, sooner or later, and that it's worth waiting. She's told me that if I'm really not happy with her judgement she'd be happy to help me find a new agent, and will give me introductions to them: but she'd rather I stayed with her (and I like her, I want to stay where I am--she is very open and honest with me AND she's very well respected in the publishing world).

When I'm at full-strength I feel inclined to stay with my lovely agent, follow her advice, keep writing, and wait until I get accepted by the big boys. But sometimes I hanker for publication and am tempted to ask her to look for one of the many wonderful small presses who might want to take me on.

So, what do you all think? What are the advantages or disadvantages of each option? Should I look for publication now, wherever I can find it, or hold off and hope for a Big Deal?
 

willietheshakes

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Do you have a "more stuff happening" book in you? Could it be your next book? If so, spend the next few weeks working on it and see how you're feeling about the whole thing when you re-address the matter with your agent.
 

gromhard

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Get a new agent or submit to a smaller press.
It's nice that your agent likes your work but if she's not willing to help you get your novels sold then you need someone that is.
You can't be expected to go write a third(and this time commercially viable) novel.
And there's no garuntee that she'll want to sell this 3rd one either.

I think she's holding you back and you should publish ASAP and get your name AND work out there.
 

katiemac

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I've recently finished my second novel and my agent has now told me that while she thinks it's wonderful, she doesn't think she can sell it. She says that while it's sophisticated and accomplished it's too "quiet", in that there's a lot of the characters' interior lives but not enough action, and the market at present demands things which could perhaps be adapted for film or TV.

Has she attempted to sell this second novel, or just "doesn't think she can"?
 

SC Harrison

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Old Hack said:
When I'm at full-strength I feel inclined to stay with my lovely agent, follow her advice, keep writing, and wait until I get accepted by the big boys. But sometimes I hanker for publication and am tempted to ask her to look for one of the many wonderful small presses who might want to take me on.

So, what do you all think? What are the advantages or disadvantages of each option? Should I look for publication now, wherever I can find it, or hold off and hope for a Big Deal?

You know, you could put everything I know about getting published into a thimble and you'd still have room for some other stuff, but...I think you have your answer already.

Here's the way I see it: you've received affirmation of your ability from the only critics that really matter, editors and agents. Granted, words don't put no meat n' taters on the table, but sometimes being hungry is a good thing. Human Beings rarely take a pack of Nabs with them when they go on a vision quest.

At least for now, I would shelf the impatience and self-doubt (if that's what it is), and concentrate on the writing. Brainstorm a little with your agent and see if there's a project you both get excited about.

That's all I've got. Good luck!
 

pdr

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Perhaps...?

you need to ask yourself this question?

Can I write a more commercial, action style novel? Is this what my writing is?

If you know that your two novels are what you will always write and written the way you want to write them then perhaps you should think about small press publishers.

Not, however, until you've let your agent have a shot with novel two at the big publishers.

Don't rush this. I expect, from what you say, that you could produce more commercial, action-packed marketable novels, but do you want to?

No, I'm not into the art versus commerce thing. It's you I'm thinking about. If you aren't happy producing what your agent is asking for then you're going to be a miserable writer once the gloss of being published has worn off.

If writing what she asks for is going to be a radical change in your style, ideas and feelings as a writer then think very hard before you do so.
 

Elizabeth Slick

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In my opinion, I would definitely stick with your agent. She sounds ernest and genuine. Sometimes a good thing takes patience. Give it about 2-4 months, see what happens! Don't jump the gun just yet. It took you a long time to write your novels, now it may take some time to sell them. It's worth the wait.
 

Penguin Queen

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I don't see why you couldn't do both -- what's stopping you from going with a smaller press now & then going on to bigger & more commercial houses?

I don't know the rest of the UK publishing world that well, but I know that in Wales, Honno for example (Welsh Women's Press) see themselves as a sort of 'springboard' where first-time authors get published, noticed, & go on to get signed by the bigger, English presses. I'm sure there must be smaller literary houses out there who do the same thing.

I guess it depends, too, on what you want, as pdr said -- do you want to & feel able to write more 'action' & more commercially, or would you rather stick with what you do?

Or, do you want to lay aside your usual style to write one 'commercial' book that would get you a puclishing contract , use that purely as a hook to get a publisher, & then sell your other two on the strength of that? -- if that is possible.
 

Christine N.

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I've been sort of in your shoes. I submitted to an agent, and she said while she loved the book it was more suited to smaller presses, where it would be appreciated more. That it probably wouldn't sell to a bigger publisher, because it didn't have the makings of a huge seller, (but was still a great book).

So I went back to my small press publisher. I'm happy, and I didn't have to shell out 15% to an agent. That's the problem with a small press if you use an agent - not much money, and you'll still have to pay the commission.

You could always sub them yourself to small presses and try to write that 'commercial' novel. A small press would not be upset by you getting a big contract - they'd sell your backlist.

I also think that most small presses pick their books with the intention of giving them a longer shelf life than a big press. Especially if they only publish half a dozen titles a year, they will ride them for the long haul.
 

Old Hack

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Funny that Penguin Queen should mention Honno, as I'm Welsh and the first novel is set in Wales. I was thinking of them specifically, and another Welsh small press, if I decide to go that way.

My agent will submit the second one if I want her to, especially to the editors who were so keen on the first: but she feels (and my instincts tell me to agree with her) that the second novel is not as strong as the first, and it might be a bad move to show them something which is less than they are expecting from me.

She feels that if I start out in the small presses that could be where I'll remain. I've read that opinion here, too, from (I think) Uncle Jim, but I don't know how valid a point it is. And she's told me that she thinks that I will do very well with the bigger presses once I am taken up--the two existing books should sell then. All I have to do (!) is write the book.

I have several ideas for the next novel in hand, and some of them would have more going on in them, so that's not a problem: I don't think my agent is asking anything from me that would be uncomfortable, so that's not a worry.

At the moment I am inclined to take her guidance on this. And thanks, all of you, who have taken the time to comment--you have been very helpful and I appreciate it.
 

UrsusMinor

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Plenty of people have launched themselves from small presses.

I believe a way to think about this is to get the idea of "me" and "my career" out of the picture and think about what you owe the book. It sounds as if it is good enough that it ought to be read. Don't count on more people reading it just because you go with a larger house; I don;t mean to be discouraging, but with literary fiction, bigger runs at biggers houses often just means more remainders.

At least in the US, with literary fiction the small presses do at least as good a job for the writer as the big houses. Small presses don't just heave their books at the wall and see if they stick; each investment is more important to them, and they tend to keep the books in print and continue to push them for years rather than a matter of weeks.

And, in terms of career, if you sell to a large press, you may find that they print 15,000 copies and then sell 5,000. With a small press, they might run 6,000 and sell 5,000. The former looks bad while the latter looks good, careerwise.
 

Penguin Queen

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Old Hack said:
Funny that Penguin Queen should mention Honno, as I'm Welsh and the first novel is set in Wales. I was thinking of them specifically, and another Welsh small press, if I decide to go that way.

Well, well, well now -- small world, innit? :) Whereabouts are you from?

It sounds like you're going to go with what your agent said, and it sounds, too, as tho you're quite comfortable with that; but just in case you do want to go down the small press route -- Honno can be great, but can be extremely chaotic.
I've had a couple of stories published in anthologies of theirs (see sig line), & was asked did I have 'something longer'; when I sent that in (a short story collection), they kept that MS, and I kid ye not, for just over TWO YEARS (while three different editors were in post), lost it TWICE and just never got back to me. :rant:
It was appalling.
At other times, I've had very quick responses from them, so I dunno what happened there.

Anyway, in the end I started sending the MS. to other publishers while still hoping for a bite from Honno, & finally Seren accepted it. (They are excellent, were they the other small press you were thinking about?)

Whichever way it goes, good luck.
 

maestrowork

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If you trust your agent, go with her advice. It's good to start big, if you have the goods. Small publishers have their place, but if you have the opportunity to get a big guy, why not wait a bit longer? What's the rush?
 

maestrowork

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UrsusMinor said:
Agent's interests and the interest of the writer are not always the same.

True. I have a talent agent so I know. And agent and client should have honest talk about where they want to go, and an agent, being a professional, would be able to give professional advice to the client. The final decision should be the client's. And if there's a real disconnect, chances are the agent and the client would part ways.

For writers, the "right" agent is sometimes better than the "best" agent in town.
 

Old Hack

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Maestro's got the gist of this, I think (sorry, all--what HAVE I done to his ego now?). I respect my agent and trust her judgement: she's told me what she'd prefer to do but has given me the choice here. Her preferred option is to hold out for the big boys, as she thinks that would suit my work better and give me a better "career" in the long run (I use quote-marks as I truly think that the writing's the thing, and the career is a side-effect). She's happy to go for the small presses, though, if I prefer. It's up to me.

PG, my mother's from Aberystwyth, I also have family in Swansea, Cardiff and Anglesea. I now live in Sheffield but although London is the place I've lived most, I only feel truly at home in west Wales. As I drive through the mountains I weep with joy. Even when I'm sober.

I've recently read a book from Parthian Books (http://www.parthianbooks.co.uk/) which was wonderful--The Long Dry by Cynan Jones, currently only 99p at Waterstones and everyone should buy it--and I have been told that if I were to submit my novel to them they'd almost certainly snap it up.
 

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UrsusMinor said:
I believe a way to think about this is to get the idea of "me" and "my career" out of the picture and think about what you owe the book.

This is an excellent point, and I agree completely. In my case, I've concluded that what I owe the book(s) is a decent burial.

caw.
 
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