What do we know about Chinese magic?

Christine N. · Aug 1, 2006

Ok, I know that sounds weird. But here's the thing - I need some help. I'm starting the third book in my MG fantasy series. Each book sort of revolves around a made-up artifact with magic powers. I somehow managed to relate the artifact to what was important to the culture that the artifact comes from; the Crown of Zeus allows the wearer all knowledge, the Ankh of Isis gives eternal life. You can see how these items can be used for great good or evil. Hence their being hidden in magic books.

So now the third book will take us to an imaginary Ancient China (that's another thing altogether). I have the artifact - the Ring of Yu-Huang. Yu-Huang was the Jade Emperor, and a Taoist Deity. What I'm having trouble with is coming up with a really good thing that the Ring does.

Could it make one hear another's thoughts? The Jade Emperor was the ruler of Heaven and Earth, and decided what happened on Earth, so that sort of made sense, but at the same time, does it go against Taoist principles? Reading another's mind can be used for good or bad.

Reading through some sites, I find that Taoism does have a mystic side, I just don't want to insult anyone. I'd like to relay as much culture as possible - sort of historical fiction, but with mythology.

Anyone with any thoughts or ideas? I would be eternally grateful. It's not a huge part of the plot, word-wise, but at the same time is pretty crucial.

Thanks.

ChaosTitan · Aug 1, 2006

Christine N. said:
So now the third book will take us to an imaginary Ancient China (that's another thing altogether). I have the artifact - the Ring of Yu-Huang. Yu-Huang was the Jade Emperor, and a Taoist Deity. What I'm having trouble with is coming up with a really good thing that the Ring does.

Could it make one hear another's thoughts? The Jade Emperor was the ruler of Heaven and Earth, and decided what happened on Earth, so that sort of made sense, but at the same time, does it go against Taoist principles? Reading another's mind can be used for good or bad.

I know nothing of Taoist principles, but I did a quick google on the Jade Emperor. Some fascinating stuff.

What if the ring not only allows the wear to hear others' thoughts, but to influence them, as well? Then you not only know what your mortal enemy is thinking, but you can make him do something self-destructive.

maestrowork · Aug 1, 2006

Transfiguration is a big mythical/magic thing in Chinese culture. Also, controlling the weather/nature/seas is also a big thing, since much of ancient China was agricultural/fishing.

TheIT · Aug 1, 2006

Something to do with balance, perhaps?

Christine N. · Aug 1, 2006

Yes, I see a lot of the stories where someone turns into something else, or is something else. I liked the story about the giant snail that was really a fairy that made him meals while he was out working the farm. Or the one about the butterfly. I did buy two books of Chinese fairy tales to look for inspiration, but this one thing eludes me.

Good things to think about. And I agree Yu-Huang is a fascinating guy.

I could have the ring un-balance people - but that seems a little existential for middle graders. But Ray, I like the nature stuff - maybe the ring could control the weather. I think that's a winner!

sunandshadow · Aug 1, 2006

Mirrors (usually the bronze kind) are important in Chinese magic, have you considered a mirror? Old suits of armor associated with a famous soldier are another archetypally Chinese magic item. A ring just seems kind of generic to me, although if it was a ring stolen from a murdered woman and now cursed or haunted that might be okay. Or maybe a ring set with a dragon's pearl, although a dragon pearl would probably be too big to go on a ring, hmm...

Kevin Yarbrough · Aug 2, 2006

Christine N. said:
The Jade Emperor was the ruler of Heaven and Earth, and decided what happened on Earth,

You just answered your own question here, Christine. Have the ring give the wearer ultimate control over everything around him/her. If he wanted good weather, he got it. If he wanted someone to go crazy, he just think it.

Also, I think the ring is a generic item to use for a Chinese artifact. I'd say go with the Jade armor of Yu-Huang. Rings have been done to death.

Now that I helped you can stop worrying and get back to making brownies.

Diana Hignutt · Aug 2, 2006

Christine,

To get a really good feel for Taoism, read some Lao Tzu ... his Tao Te Ching is the classic. Something more accessible is Benjamin Hoff's The Tao of Pooh. Read those and you'll get a good background on the mystic aspects of Taoism.

Christine N. · Aug 2, 2006

sunandshadow said:
Mirrors (usually the bronze kind) are important in Chinese magic, have you considered a mirror? Old suits of armor associated with a famous soldier are another archetypally Chinese magic item. A ring just seems kind of generic to me, although if it was a ring stolen from a murdered woman and now cursed or haunted that might be okay. Or maybe a ring set with a dragon's pearl, although a dragon pearl would probably be too big to go on a ring, hmm...

It's kind of the point that the item belonged to a Deity of that culture and dug up as an archaeological artifact. Since Yu-Huang is the Jade Emperor, the ring would be jade, but I'm thinking it does have a stone of some kind.

And I think I'm saving the armour or something like that for the Nordic book - if I do one. Armor is just so... anti-Taoist. I know a ring sounds like of generic, but when I think of an emperor, I think of something like big ring, you know the one you're supposed to kiss. I had a crown and a big gold Ankh. It does need to be more of a portable item. Maybe a box? I had a bit with Pandora's box in the first book. I have to decide, b/c I sort of mention the item in the first book in passing. It hasn't been through editing yet, so I'm not stuck with it.

Diana - I have the Te of Piglet somewhere around here. I've learned more about the differences b/w Confuscianism and Taoism in the last week than I ever thought I'd know, I'll tell ya that.

Kevin... it's too damn hot to make brownies today

RedWombat · Aug 2, 2006

Christine N. said:
I know a ring sounds like of generic, but when I think of an emperor, I think of something like big ring, you know the one you're supposed to kiss. I had a crown and a big gold Ankh. It does need to be more of a portable item. Maybe a box? I had a bit with Pandora's box in the first book. I have to decide, b/c I sort of mention the item in the first book in passing. It hasn't been through editing yet, so I'm not stuck with it.

May I suggest an Imperial Seal?

Not the barking kind, but a jade stamp for signing documents. They were frequently used in China, if memory serves, and they ooze imperialness, without having the cliche of the ring. They're not too huge, either, although some of them got quite ornate.

Since seals are applied to decrees and whatnot giving orders, it's not a big jump to a seal that MAKES you obey orders, or whatever.

Random thought, there. *grin*

A quickly googled reference--I'm sure there are plenty more--but which includes a link to Seals in Chinese magic:
http://www.logoi.com/notes/seals/

Christine N. · Aug 2, 2006

I thought about that; it reminds me of "Shanghai Knights". LOL I liked that movie though. That's a thought too.

I kind of like the mirror idea - you can look into it and see whatever people are doing and control things. That has insidious implications. A jade hand-mirror.

Ooo, I think I've got it! How about a Jade Seal, that when you hold it and concentrate, you can turn into whatever you want. A bird, a dog, the wind. Think of how much trouble you could get into with that!

Snitchcat · Aug 2, 2006

Since you're going for the Jade Seal, you might find the following reference to the Imperial Seal, useful:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Seal_of_China

Christine N. · Aug 2, 2006

Hey, that's good - and it's lost, so I can totally use something like that. Thanks.

Ordinary_Guy · Aug 2, 2006

I was intrigued, so I looked around and found that the Chinese traditionally associated jade with the five cardinal virtues: charity, modesty, courage, justice, and wisdom. Don't know if that would affect your characters at all, but it could be a great behavioral mod device – let's say the emperor "loses the ring" (kind of the same way secrets are "leaked" in Washington), and some not-so-reputable fellow finds it and puts it on. Within a few days, this guy finds himself changing into the paragon of all the things jade represents (and this seriously screws with the guy's day job).

It was also was attributed some healing powers. The plot device for this is fairly obvious: put the ring on a warrior and they're pretty much going to be the "Timex" of the battlefield – they'll take a licking and keep on ticking. Even for non-warriors, it would likely keep the wearer young and resistant to assassination attempts, from knives in the back to poisoned egg rolls.

Christine N. · Aug 2, 2006

Hmm, that's interesting OG. The ring (or whatever I decide to use) is already hidden - in a magic book. There's a big treasure hunt to find it, full of excitement and adventure, a thrilling sort of Lara Croft meets DaVinci Code/National treasure kind of thing.

No one will reallly use the item, it's just that I need to know what it does. Because, of course, the bad people are looking for it too. It's the threat of someone using the thing for evil that drives them.

I had considered healing - but may leave that one for a future book. The Nordic item may be a healing one, b/c I've got a dilly of a plot twist to go with it. This story's already got enough going on - characters from the first book showing up unexpectedly, another new arrival, intrigue and something else I don't want to give away. And I think perhaps the Celtic one will be the weather-controlling one? I haven't decided. I wasn't sure how many books I'm going to write yet. But I know what the final book will be about, I have from the start.

I'm back to the mirror, I think. A mirror that lets you see everything (which would be very useful to a God of Heaven, donchathinK?) you want AND lets you go through it anywhere it shows you. I can almost picture it- the handle and back made from jade, with a raised symbol on the back, and a bit of gold around the polished edges. It's pretty.

The Mirror of Yu-Huang kind of has a nice ring to it, eh?

I don't think there's nearly enough fantasy based on Chinese culture; at least not in the US. It's really a fascinating, wonderful mythology, and of course filled with its own sort of magic.

Christine N. · Aug 2, 2006

I did read about the seals to ward off tigers.

Thanks, Innkeeper. Great links!

dclary · Aug 2, 2006

The only thing I really know about Chinese Magic is that even if you absorb a large amount of it, in about an hour you'll feel like you need more.

dclary · Aug 2, 2006

a good geomantic compass,

Ah, that's true. There's a lot of comic-book lore about Geomancers, but their origin is Chinese mythology, right?

bubblegirl · Aug 2, 2006

Just a little food for thought. Joss Whedon, writer and creator of the Buffy the Vampire Slayer Series, used to research legends to use on the show. After the first season, they realised nobody cared if they were true or not, and just started making up legends.

I didn't expect any of the legends to be true in the first place.

S.

Snitchcat · Aug 2, 2006

I was just thinking more about this thread and if you don't want to use a Seal, or you would rather go for a mirror, the following may give you some ideas:

http://www.jadedragon.com/archives/fengshui/fengshu.html

It's a 'bagua' -- a fengshui tool, and, it could also be used as an instrument for sensing 'evil' (usually spirit form), or ghosts, or paranormal activity. Depends on how you use it.

Just a little bit of caution though: the Bagua shouldn't really be used in anything 'evil' or 'proper' (sorry, can't think of the English terms right now), unless the chr wants xyz consequences. (Hmm... plotbunny developing now... heh.)

Christine N. · Aug 3, 2006

Bubble Girl,
You're probably right, but I don't want to be too terribly off. Part of the treasure hunt is to figure out riddles based on myths or folktales of the culture of the book you're in. The person who created the magic books was an archaeologist AND mythology buff. In order to guess the answer to the clues properly, one would need to know about the stories. The magic artifacts themselves ARE made up, as are the legends attached to them.

The Greek one was pretty easy; I know a lot of Greek mythology. The Egyptian one was harder, but still fun. And I at least want to make an effort at getting some of it right. China has a wealth of useful legends and folktales; it'd be a shame not to use them.

I've been thinking, and I think I'm down to a mirror OR a jade dragon pendant. But then it would be the Jade Pendant of Yu-Huang, and I don't really dig that. The Jade Dragon of Yu-Huang? Or just The Jade Dragon?

Thanks, Snitchcat.

Now I need to go print out a map of the Fobidden City. The magic book itself was presenting a problem - in the other two books the places I was in were relatively small - Greece and Egypt. China is... big. So I'm going to have the entire magic story take place inside the Forbidden City.

dclary · Aug 3, 2006

Just a little food for thought. Joss Whedon, writer and creator of the Buffy the Vampire Slayer Series, used to research legends to use on the show. After the first season, they realised nobody cared if they were true or not, and just started making up legends.

Yeah, I remember one of those interview snippets on TNT when they were promoing the series. "The show was about teen angst, set in a demonic world. If we needed a demon of horny schoolgirls, we didn't go research if one existed, we just made him up."

Which then reminds me of the only film I can think of that has Chinese magic in it: Big Trouble in Little China.

Jack Burton: What's in the flask, Egg? Magic potion?
Egg Shen: Yeah.
Jack Burton: Thought so, good. What do we do, drink it?
Egg Shen: Yeah!
Jack Burton: Good, thought so.

Ordinary_Guy · Aug 3, 2006

See things no one else can see, do things no one else can do!

dclary said:
...Which then reminds me of the only film I can think of that has Chinese magic in it: Big Trouble in Little China.

Jack Burton: What's in the flask, Egg? Magic potion?
Egg Shen: Yeah.
Jack Burton: Thought so, good. What do we do, drink it?
Egg Shen: Yeah!
Jack Burton: Good, thought so.

C'mon! The best part:
Jack Burton: ...What's this do again, exactly?
Egg Shen: Gives buzz!

Gawd, I love that movie!

dclary · Aug 3, 2006

So awesome. LOL.

Tirjasdyn · Aug 3, 2006

Have you read Monkey aka Journey to the West? It is the tale of three adventurers who travel to bring Buddhism to China...It has a ton of Taoist mythology in it as well. The characters are Monkey, Pigsy and a human which in my translation was called Tripitika (laugh).

The Jade Emperor could drop mountains on people, btw.

What do we know about Chinese magic?

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