What is the difference between magick and magic?

I think something was mentioned about this in Diana´s magick/magic thread (select as preferred)

I don't know that there's any practical difference, but I do know that it tends to annoy people when things are spelled magick and vampyre and such instead of being spelled normally.

magic

Poor spelling.

Okay, I checked my magick thread and on page 1, post #13 I give a brief explanation after taking some heat for my preference of the "K". On page 3, post #57, I answer again in more detail after Sean asked the same question you're asking.

Anyway, most editors and agents, I'm sure, would prefer to see magic spelled without the "k". The "k" was added, exactly as you suppose, to differentiate the David Copperfield type of magic from the Aleister Crowley type of magick. I have used the spelling "magick" in novels published by small presses, so it can be done. In my mind, the term magick conjures something ancient and mysterious, more so than the more conventional spelling does.

Jamesaritchie said:

Poor spelling.

Click to expand...

I respectfully disagree. I have used the spelling magick in my novel, Empress of Clouds, which was reviewed by Publishers Weekly, and scored significant award nods: 2005 Spectrum Award Nominee, 2004 ForeWord Magazine Book of the Year Award Finalist, 2005 Independent Publisher IPPY Award Semi-Finalist.

James, I'll yield to your expertise in being a professional writer, but magick is a legitimate spelling of the word, if not a prefered one...

It be magick!

I've seen "magick" used often enough in fantasy stories and novels over the years to accept the alternative spelling without a second thought. If nothing else it gives the word an "Olde English" feeling. Dictionary defines magick as the verb form of magic, e.g. "to magick something away" -- therefore it is not poor spelling. Imagine, writers actually consulting dictionaries to check facts before replying, what a radical thought.

-Derek
My Web Page - naked women, bestial sex, and whopping big lies.
Take the critiques you get with a grain of salt. Invariably, some of the critics will be kooks, bitter curmudgeons, or complete fools. ~odocoileus

MY type of majique deserves its own spelling. It is unique and mysterious and deserves to be differentiated.

Maybe if I spell it "m'j'q'" people will see how special it is...

How would you spell 'magic' if you wanted to use the word as a verb (instead of noun or adjective).

magiced? magicked?

I know some people might suggest enchanted, charmed, bewitched, beguiled, enraptured, hexed, jinxed, etc. but none of these actually mean what I want to say.

Just curious...thanks for your help.

My-Immortal said:

How would you spell 'magic' if you wanted to use the word as a verb (instead of noun or adjective).

magiced? magicked?

Click to expand...

Well, honestly I would 'read' the first like 'magi-seed', so probably not what you would be going for.

I've seen the word spelled both ways in many different books and it honestly never took me out of the scene. If I actually sit and think about it, 'magick' does tend to give it an old-world kind of feeling. I know I use 'magic' personally, but that's just me and my 2 cents.

How would you spell 'magic' if you wanted to use the word as a verb (instead of noun or adjective).

magiced? magicked?

Click to expand...

American Heritage says "magicked (-icking, -ics)."

dpaterso said:

I've seen "magick" used often enough in fantasy stories and novels over the years to accept the alternative spelling without a second thought. If nothing else it gives the word an "Olde English" feeling. Dictionary defines magick as the verb form of magic, e.g. "to magick something away" -- therefore it is not poor spelling. Imagine, writers actually consulting dictionaries to check facts before replying, what a radical thought.

-Derek
My Web Page - naked women, bestial sex, and whopping big lies.
Take the critiques you get with a grain of salt. Invariably, some of the critics will be kooks, bitter curmudgeons, or complete fools. ~odocoileus

Click to expand...

Which dictionary? Maybe I just need a new one. It isn't listed this way in any of mine. And when is the last time you saw "Magick" used as a verb in a novel? I never have. I've seen it used many times, but never once as a verb.

To "magick" something away is exactly the same thing as to "magic" something away. Neither is automatically a verb until you turn it into one. Spelling has nothing to do with it.

"Magick" is simply an archaic spelling of "magic," dating back to the thirteenth century. Spelling was not standard then, and "magic" was actually spelled at least four different ways. So in this sense, "macick" is merely an incorrect spelling.

Spelling changes over time, and if you say "magick" is a correct spelling, then you have to start spelling all other words the same way they were spelled. This spelling is simply something some writer pulled from a very old, outdated source, and they could as easily have pulled several other variants.

In all likelihood, the word "magick" is derived from the also now incorrect spelling "magickal," which was also one of several variants before spelling became standardized.

If you're going to rely on a dictionary, you need to rely on a better one than you apparently have. Any dictionary that tells you "magick" is a verb was written by an idiot. It can be used as a verb, so can magic, or just about any other noun. But "magick" is not a verb, it's simply an archaic spelling, one of many, dating back to the thirteenth century when words were spelled however individuals wanted to spell them.

MattW said:

MY type of majique deserves its own spelling. It is unique and mysterious and deserves to be differentiated.

Maybe if I spell it "m'j'q'" people will see how special it is...

Click to expand...

"majique"...

I could see it. All the incantations are done with a thick French accent, right?

Jamesaritchie said:

Maybe I just need a new one.

Click to expand...

You could have stopped right there and saved bandwidth.

-Derek
My Web Page - naked women, bestial sex, and whopping big lies.
Take the critiques you get with a grain of salt. Invariably, some of the critics will be kooks, bitter curmudgeons, or complete fools. ~odocoileus

I don't really care one way or the other about sticking a k in magic, but the idea of re-spelling words has always annoyed me. Respelling a word doesn't change it's meaning, because the meanings of words predates standardized spelling. To change a word's meaning, you have to change it's roots. And sometimes even that can have an undesired effect if you're not careful-- 'womyn' is a perfect example. 'Man' meant 'human' before it had any gender association at all, so 'taking the man out of woman' by spelling it with a y creates a word that means 'female non-human.' We have a word for that already, and it's quite impolite.

In this case it's irrelevant, because magic and magick have the same root (ironically in the case of this conversation, that root appears to be the Old French magique, from the latin magice).

I know that Wiccans and some other pagan groups have reasons for wanting a different word for what they do because it's different than card tricks, but I just don't see using a different spelling as creating a different word. The original meaning of 'magic' is their meaning. They'd be better off 'taking the word back' by referring to 'magic tricks' by another name (like illusion or just trick). It's magic in the sense of magician that's the misnomer, after all.

But then I'm extremely biased on this issue, because I go to a school with a "Womyn's Center," and that's where the basis for my annoyance comes from.

Jamesaritchie said:

If you're going to rely on a dictionary, you need to rely on a better one than you apparently have. Any dictionary that tells you "magick" is a verb was written by an idiot. It can be used as a verb, so can magic, or just about any other noun. But "magick" is not a verb, it's simply an archaic spelling, one of many, dating back to the thirteenth century when words were spelled however individuals wanted to spell them.

Click to expand...

Magick is also a technical term coined by Crowley, for several reasons, which Diana does explain.

I find the word "magick" problematic in fiction unless it's referring to Golden Dawn or neo-pagan practices, because the modern spelling for anything else is "magic". But makes no sense to say that "magick" is not a proper spelling just because Crowley made the word up. Shall we say Robotics is not a real word either cause it was made up (by Asimov, if I remember right)?

We make words up. They gain particular meanings through usage. The problem, in my mind, is when we then try to use them in different ways, thus clashing with what our readers know about the word meaning. We end up like Humpty Dumpty talking to Alice.

LeeFlower said:

I don't really care one way or the other about sticking a k in magic, but the idea of re-spelling words has always annoyed me.

Click to expand...

Me too, though I do see the motivation for gender terms, because while "man" used to mean "human", that sense is not nearly so prevalent now. And language does affect thought in non-trivial ways.

It still annoys me

But y'know, when someone respelled the word and claimed it with a different meaning a hundred years ago, and there's a whole community of people who use it that way, it's just as much a respelling to go in and claim that isn't real, and you can call "magick" "magic". The respelling happened. It has a speech community. That does validate it, linguistically speaking.

I don't happen to like the spelling, but then I don't like the American "color", "flavor", etc. spellings either, and I'm not telling all the Americans that they just spell these words wrong.

Okay, now what if you want to use the word 'magic' as a predicate adjective to describe a person's state of being - similar say if you were to describe a person's state of being in regards to alcohol consumption:

He is drunk.

Would you write:

He is magic.
He is magiced.
He is magicked.
(or some other form of the word 'magic'?)

He consumed too much alcohol and is now drunk.

He consumed too many spells and is now magic. (magiced, magicked)

He is sober.

He is unmagic.(unmagiced, unmagicked)

Any thoughts? Forget the 'k' - keep the 'k' - use the 'un', don't use the 'un' - use the 'ed', don't use the 'ed'?

I'm just curious what some of you think. Thanks for your time.

people use it in that sense for inanimate objects all the time: magic ring; magic train; magic schoolbus... I'd say you could apply it the same way to people, so long as you're talking about their innate being, like 'he is holy' or something.

It seems that a lot of magic systems separate the magic from the person though, making it something they have, rather than something they are. So if that's the case, we wouldn't say 'he is magic' any more than we'd say 'he is money.'

Shweta said:

...That does validate it, linguistically speaking.

Click to expand...

That's it in a nutshell. Grammarians will attempt to preserve the language as they know it, linguists analyze the language as it evolves.

In creative writing, the trend seems to hold. Is one "more right" than another? I really don't think so, though personally, I lean far more "linguistic" than "grammarian." It makes dialogue (internal/external) read far more natural.

It's good to learn the rules, get to know Strunk and White – then leave them behind.

Shweta said:

I don't happen to like the spelling, but then I don't like the American "color", "flavor", etc. spellings either, and I'm not telling all the Americans that they just spell these words wrong.

Click to expand...

Hm. I think the UK "u" is quaint... and superfluous. I wouldn't mind dropping "through" for "thru." And "defense" with a "c"? Doesn't feel right. OTOH, "petrol" has a certain charm, as does "flat" and "lift".

As for Magick...? Whatever floats yer boat. It's a bit of a gimmick but so what? Heck, alt spellings have been growing at a phenomenal rate since the rise of advertising. Ironic twist: another fifty years and billboards will read like the Canterbury Tales.

Womyn, Pyrates, whatever... Everybody wants to be different. An author can write about Magickal Womyn Pyrates and if the spelling catches the eye of it's target audience, mission accomplished. Grammarians can cry over the dilution of the language and that offending writer might shed a tear, too... on the way to the bank.

Just to get obscure, does anyone pronounce the "h" in "herb"?
If so, why?

dclary said:

Without attempting to be seen as more crass or ignorant than I actually am... Is there a specific difference *other* than the neopagan attempt to distinguish spirit and nature powers from ordinary modern sleight-of-hand?

I'm sorry if the question has been asked before, I didn't see it in the first few pages of threads.

Click to expand...

You've already given the answer there. The k is added by people with a literal belief in supernatural/psychic powers rather than treating them as fantasy or myth. I think it is a useful distinction.

My-Immortal said:

Okay, now what if you want to use the word 'magic' as a predicate adjective to describe a person's state of being - similar say if you were to describe a person's state of being in regards to alcohol consumption:

He is drunk.

Would you write:

He is magic.
He is magiced.
He is magicked.
(or some other form of the word 'magic'?)

Click to expand...

I'd say he was magical. Or that he was enchanted, depending on what you mean.

I'm gonna take a stand against using either magic or magick as a verb. I can't imagine a good context to use either word as a verb. At least none that I would ever use.

In the context of the examples above, agreed, just doesn't seem to fit. Tho' I could maybe see it in a sentence like "He slumped down, exhausted, and tried to start a fire, but he was all magicked out."

-Derek
My Web Page - naked women, bestial sex, and whopping big lies.
Take the critiques you get with a grain of salt. Invariably, some of the critics will be kooks, bitter curmudgeons, or complete fools. ~odocoileus

Ordinary_Guy said:

Just to get obscure, does anyone pronounce the "h" in "herb"?
If so, why?

Click to expand...

I do. Why? Well, why do you pronounce any letter in any word?

There are too many silent 'h's around IMHO. An herb, an house, an horrible little boy. No no no. A herb, a house and a horrible little boy.
'Heir' is about the only 'h' word I can think of that doesn't sound wrong to me with a silent 'h'