published writers-how long and how many?

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billyf027

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Until the first time you were published. It's so frustrating getting rejected. It's so easy to quit but if you have even one published story you know you can write. Until then you never know regardless of what a teacher, critique group, or any other reader says. Unless I'm published I will never know if I can write good enough.
So how long did it take you in time or submissions to get your first publishing credit?
I'm very interested in answers to this question.
Thank you.
 

beatkay

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I'd noodled around with a couple of lit-ficcy type pieces for about a year, trying Glimmer Train and Zoetrope, the Hemingway contest. You know, some of the big boys. Waste of time. Mostly because my stories weren't ready for that level of submission and I just wasn't all that serious about it.

My first submission of erotica I sold to the first market I sent it to. And I've maintained about an 85% sales-to-first-market ratio on my erotica. That's damn good. I think that success rate is partly *really* knowing the niche market I write for and partly, writing solid, pro-level stories. The edits I get back from my sales are all minor typo-type stuff. No big structure issues, no huge fixes.

You can't go by time frame because time in the publishing world is not the same as time in the real world:). That first sale I submitted in July prior to a September deadline and I didn't get the acceptance from that editor until the following March. So, about nine months.

I've not done as well with my other material, though. One horror story sold to its first market but I'd written specifically for that themed anthology and I figured it had a pretty good chance. But a second horror story is on about market #14 and I'm about ready to trunk it.

My other mainstream/lit-ficcy type pieces are making the rounds too, with no nibbles other than one editor asking for more material. Felt good.

Keep writing new material, keep getting feedback from your crit group and fellow writers and keep studying the markets!
 

Kate Thornton

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I sold my first mystery story - the first one I ever wrote - to Blue Murder years ago. It was the first story I had written that made sense to me - I had been writing vignettes for a while, and had collaborated on several book-length manuscripts, but this was a short story, plotted and fleshed out and I was satisfied with it. I sent it off to David Firks and forgot about it. A few weeks later I got a contract in the mail, then a check. I was thrilled. But when I saw my name in print, I was hooked.

I bought a fancy fountain pen with the check - I still have it!

After that initial thrill, I have just kept on writing short stories. I write, submit, write & submit. Some get published, some earn money (I like that) some don't. But I keep writing and submitting.

And along the way I joined Sisters in Crime, and crit groups, and boards like this one and practice really does improve the writing.

So hang in there and keep writing & submitting!
 

writeperch

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The coolest story I've personally heard is from Connie Willis (multi-award winning science fiction author and all around cool person). She's told this story many times and I'm stealing this version from another really good writer Jim Van Pelt, this is from his SFWA article about perseverance:

Connie Willis says that at one point before she'd published her first story, she had eight manuscripts in the mail to different markets. One day she checked her post office box, and in it was a slip telling her to pick up her mail from the postmaster. Instead of a package or something pleasant, however, the postmaster handed her rejections on all eight stories. Crushed, she considered quitting, but because she'd made it a habit to address envelopes to the next market for each story, she decided to slip the rejected work into the new envelopes and send them off. Eventually, she says, all eight works found publishing homes.

Jim then goes on to say that he has never sold a story to the first market that saw it. However, last year he sold a story that had been bounced thirty-one times previously.
 

gromhard

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3 years. A lot of returned postage, defunkt presses and rejection letters. I sent out maybe 60 submissions before my first acceptance.

Like beatkay I too wasted a lot of time trying to hit big, I was sending to Atlantic Monthly and The New Yorker when I started. One day I collected all my submissions, all my returned envelopes and rejections and I did the math and found out of 60 submissions that only 20 got rejected. The other 40 were returned unread or the press went out of business.
After that I began to do more research on my submissions. I used all my writer's markets to compile a list of Zines that have been open for longer than 3 years.
Now I'm getting published every other submission.The trick is to figure out who's really reading submissions and who's just trying to publish their own zine just to see their own work in print(a lot more than you might realize are like this.)
 

james1611

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well here you go

I submitted for about 6 months and I probably still haven't gotten all of my rejection form letters back, but close.

I also was making self pubbing plans through lulu.com and told myself not to do it until my second book in the series was finished. If I had nothing by that time I was going forward with the cover I had already commissioned. I was using lulu.com to send out review copies to several authors who had agreed to review it and provide blurbs. Not all of those have come back yet, but a couple of nice ones have and the book was picked up for publication by Breakneck Books in June, due a great deal to the review provided by one of their authors for my novel. The contract is signed, the cover is done and the manuscript is currently going through the editing gauntlet right now (biting nails...).

So for my first novel, on submitting to contract--about 7 months.

I had also been submitting a few short stories at the same time and right after the book was picked up by Breakneck Books...one of the short stories The Meeting, was accepted for the August 2006 Edition of the Writers Post Journal through LBF Books.

I hope this info is useful to you--don't give up! I honestly was ready to self publish and call it a day. Thankfully I had made myself stick to my time limit.

--James
 

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The short version:
I think, from the time I started writing 'seriously', reasonably professionally and really meaning to get published... two novels (still unpublished) and a number of short stories; and about four years. One short story caught the attention of an editor , it didnt get published but she asked to see what other stuff I was writing. I showed her another one which she suggested might make a good novel. I wrote that novel, which her replacement subsequenty rejected. It caught the attention of another editor at another press, who also rejected it but suggested I send in other stuff. One of the stories I submitted there for an anthology got accepted & published in 2002.

Convoluted. I think the morale in there is, Don't give up!
 

jchines

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I had written a novel and about 25 short stories, and had been submitting for 2-3 years when a story of mine took first place in Writers of the Future (big SF/F contest and anthology.)

There was one story I entered in a pay-to-submit contest that got printed in a really crappy-looking 'zine before that, but I don't really think of that one as "published" in my head.

I don't necessarily agree that you shouldn't aim big. Don't hold your breath, but why deliberately sell yourself short? My first paid story -- the WotF winner -- paid me $2000 and got me a trip to LA. I've got a friend who sold her very first story to Realms of Fantasy, one of the top fantasy zines out there.

It's hard, and it usually takes years to crack the big markets. But if you don't try, it's never going to happen. And you'd be surprised how often writers will tell stories of big name editors reading stuff in the small press zines and saying, "Why didn't you send this to me? I'd have bought it in a second!"
 

Kate Thornton

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jchines said:
IAnd you'd be surprised how often writers will tell stories of big name editors reading stuff in the small press zines and saying, "Why didn't you send this to me? I'd have bought it in a second!"

Ain't it the truth! I have heard this too. And once you have sold or given away First North American Serial Rights, that's it - it's a reprint then...DOH!
 

whistlelock

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I had a writing teacher tell me that he sent out a short story 64 times before it got printed. After that, he won a few awards and stuff with it. And in the words of my grandfather, "throw enough crap against the wall and something will stick. eventually."
 

Jamesaritchie

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Time

It all happened pretty fast for me. I'd never even thought about being a writer until I chanced on an article about Robert A. Heinlein wherein he said he wrote his first short story to pay an overdue electric bill. I had plenty of overdue bills, so I figured what he could do I could at least try.

I was a high school dropout, and didn't know a comma from a coma, but I bought a grammar book and read it. Then I sat down and wrote a fairly long story in a couple of days and mailed the first draft (Who knew you were supposed to write more than one draft?) to my favorite magazine. A few weeks later they bought it, and paid almost as much as I earned in a month at my day job.

When the check arrived in the mail I took one look at it and quit my day job.

I wrote two more quick stories for a couple of other magazines, and they sold, as well. Then I sent a query letter and the first couple of pages of a novel I hadn't written yet to an agent, and she called almost immediately saying she wanted to see the complete novel. She said she needed it by the first of the next month, and instead of telling her it wasn't yet written, I said I needed to do one more quick draft. (Well, that was, as Huck Finn said of Mark Twain, mainly true. I did need to do one more quick draft. I just didn't tell her it was the first draft.)

I wrote the thing in three weeks because I had to, and mailed her the first draft. (I still didn't know writers were supposed to do more than one draft.) I mailed it to her on time, and she sold it not much over a month later.

It was all very fast, and I went from never even thinking about being a writer to being a pro actually earning a living at it in only a couple of months. I still find it all really strange.

I think sending stories to the top magazines first is the smartest thing any writer can possibly do. You do need to be serious about writing and selling, but why write and submit if you aren't? Starting at the top and working your way down is probably the oldest advice in writing, and the benefits greatly outweigh the disadvantages. If no one wants it, your story will hit the bottom of teh ladder sooner or later, but why rush it? Give someone a chance to buy it before it hits bottom.

You only get really good by competing with the very best, and by letting the top editors see what you've written.

And one thing is absolutely certain. . .if you start at the top and work your way down, your story will sell to the best magazine that wants it. If you start at the bottom and work your way up, your story will sell to the worst magazine that wants it.

There's no shame in being rejected by top magazines, and it's never a waste of time. The fastest way to break into any magazine is to try writing for that magazine, and to keep writing for it until the editor says yes. And the surest way to break into top magazines in general is to start at the top and work your way down.

Very few get good enough to write for the big boys by writing for the little ones. And if they do, it's a tediously slow process. If your stories are anywhere close to professional quality, some of the top editors will tell you where you're going wrong, and you can make changes accordingly.

Joyce Carol Oates was rejected thirty-five times by The Atlantic Monthly before C. Michael Curtis bought one of her stories, but once he did, she was suddenly hot.

Starting at the top and working your way down may take more postage and more patience, but if you don't buy stamps by the roll, and don't have a fifty gallon drum of patience in this business, you're going to shoot yourself in the foot. Or somewhere even more painful. Other than needing more postage and more patience, there are no other drawbacks to starting at the top and working your way down, and many, many advantages.
 
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Jamesaritchie

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Kate Thornton said:
I sold my first mystery story - the first one I ever wrote - to Blue Murder years ago. !

I used to read every issue of Blue Murder. Good magazine. I kept meaning to write something for it, and then one day it was gone. Big congrats on getting in. They published some great mystery stories.
 

billyf027

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I wonder

whistlelock said:
I had a writing teacher tell me that he sent out a short story 64 times before it got printed. After that, he won a few awards and stuff with it. And in the words of my grandfather, "throw enough crap against the wall and something will stick. eventually."

i wonder if he revised it at all or it remained the original story. Do you know?
 

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billyf027 said:
Until the first time you were published. It's so frustrating getting rejected. It's so easy to quit but if you have even one published story you know you can write. Until then you never know regardless of what a teacher, critique group, or any other reader says. Unless I'm published I will never know if I can write good enough.
So how long did it take you in time or submissions to get your first publishing credit?
I'm very interested in answers to this question.
Thank you.

I started writing seriously after years of just messing around writing jokey stuff.

I reckon I had about 10 "proper" rejections, then started to get handwritten acceptances. These mainly said "Nice story, nothing wrong with it, just not what we want." I got one of these from a small press magazine in the UK - they said something like "not gory enough". I sat down that morning (When I should have gone into University to do some research) and wrote a story that I sent off that evening. It got accepted by the magazine, and also got published in a US magazine. After that, I wrote a couple more that got accepted.

Then I gave up - had to finish my PhD and also started working... Then had some pretty bad issues to deal with until things settled down about 2 years ago... Now I feel as if I'm starting again.

I reckon I had about 20-30 rejections before I got something accepted.

To be honest, even though I've had stuff published, I still have no confidence and am still not sure if it's worth continuing, especially with the lack of markets in the UK for horror/SF stuff. I've started looking at US markets, which seem to be plentiful and also very good indeed, but the guidelines baffle me - "Dark Fantasy"(!?!?) and "In the style of..." They seem to have very fixed idea of what they want, and even when I read issues (I always buy a copy of a magazine I'm thinking of submitting to) I still don't really understand what they want, and just think my stuff isn't what they want...

One thing that was very useful: there used to a small press UK magazine called Xenos, one of the _only_ UK SF/Horror markets at the time. I submitted to them a few times, and the stories were basically garbage and got form rejections. When they improved, the editor started to send back comments and advice, so I plugged away until they accepted a couple of stories. It was very good to get advice back, and probably helped a great deal. When i was at school and mentioned I wanted to be a writer, I was pretty much ridiculed by the teachers and told "go and get job down the local factory" (My Dad OWNED the local factory!). Even in the 1980s, you were made to feel as if writing stories wasn't something that people from the working classes did.
 
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billyf027

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my confidence

is low right now. But i love writing and even if I never get published, I will write because I like too and something inside makes me. I love researching a story or locale, or hearing about something and saying wouldn't that be a great story. I just love to write, if I get published thats just icing on the cake but I will always have doubts and though I threaten all the time to quit, I can't.
Thank you for all the great answers, it means a lot, more then you know.

PS- I recently had an editor write me that my story was fresh and exciting with a strong beginning and was strong throughout also technically well-written just didn't fit their current needs. She also gave me a couple of small things to change if I wanted to.

PSS-Theres always hope!
 

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Picked up my first issue of Twilight Zone magazine and decided I could out-write anybody in there. I was wrong, of course, but started submitting to the small press in 1988. I must have gone through 150 rejects until I started making a pest of myself and getting to know the editors personally. Then I started getting personal feedback. Then I sold (for copies only). About six months later I made some important sales to Amazing Stories, Not One of Us, and Space and Time, which gave me enough credits to join the SFWA. I then entered the Writer's of the Future contest and hit the quarter finalist position. All of this took about two years. I wrote two non-fiction books within the next year and they were picked up and published imediately. Six or Seven novels followed, and two of those landed with Richard Curtis Associates. They got shopped around for a year--one of them damn near went to film, but got nixed out by Jurrassic Park.

I gave up in 1992, having never sold a novel, but just about everything else. I came back to writing 1 1/2 years ago to bust that nut. I have an agent again. So we'll see what happens.

I regret I left writing for 15 years.

Tri
 

writeroffthelake

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I had my first sale about two months after I started writing, about two weeks after I started submitting, and that same week I sold two more short stories. At that time I was writing about five short stories a week (about 15,000 words of finished copy every week). I was 23 and not working, and I'd been reading The Writer, Writer's Digest, Writer's Market, and a dozen other writing books since second grade because I knew even before I could read that I would someday write.

I had never expected such quick sales. Phyllis Whitney said in one of her books that it took her something like eight years before her first sale. I figured if it took her that long, that I MIGHT sell ONE story before I died--if I was very, very lucky.

I submitted to really low paying, pulp-like markets, and after those first three sales, I think it was about seven months before I had my next sale, and after that it was reasonably steady...until the magazine that was my biggest buyer (12 short stories in 15 issues) stopped buying short stories. Some of my stories sold the first time out; some got rejected as much as a dozen times before they sold.

Just as everybody takes a different length of time to complete their writing projects (not every college student gets a Bachelor's in four years, we don't all get married at the same age, etc, etc), so will your publishing time table be unique. Don't judge yourself on how quickly others first published. Don't judge your writing on being good or bad as to whether it's published. Publication only means that at that particular moment some editor thought it was a piece that s/he could use in his magazine. It doesn't mean he even liked the story; he may just have needed a quick fill due to other circumstances. Trust your gut as to whether a piece of writing is good or not. There's plenty of stuff I've published that could easily fall into the catagory of "crap"...and plenty of great writing that never finds a market. I'm probably going to say this in a way that won't win me any popularity contest, but think of writing as manure. Not only is there a market for the sale of manure, but it helps grow edible crops and beautiful flowers.
 

Doctor Shifty

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billyf027 said:
Until the first time you were published.

So how long did it take you in time or submissions to get your first publishing credit?

It also depends on when you take the starting time.

I've been writing since childhood, it was a way of processing a life that I would not have chosen for myself, and most of what I wrote was thrown out soon after I finished it. I guess I was using writing to think my way through life. I wouldn't really take that as the start for your "how long" question, but it's part of the history.

I write professional resources, subjects ranging from computer training manual to parenting, to grief work, to child sexual abuse. This stuff is also not my start point.

I also wrote sport "technicalia", sailing racing articles, for a free ezine for a few years. This might be getting to the start point.

But the stuff that I like writing for writing's sake is another dimension. I've got stories on my computer that go back twenty years, but I've never thought of myself as publishable as literature. Until one early January I decided that "this year I will get some of that stuff published." That is my real start point.

I sent off about ten stories to a publisher. He replied, "Three of these are above the bar and we would publish immediately. The others need work." And that is when I started getting them into shape for other people to read. It took about eighteen months between initial submission to publication. Ironically, those three OK stories got bypassed as, although they were technically OK, they didn't fit the theme of the collection that we chose for the book.

Another thing I had never considered was submitting stories to magazines, and it was not until about two weeks ago that I did that. Somebody suggested I write a particular genre that is not my normal and my first reaction was to say, "That is not the kind of thing that I write." A few days later I sat down and did it, then I subbed it to a magazine. Still waiting to see what happens out of that.

Kim
 
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Doctor Shifty

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billyf027 said:
Unless I'm published I will never know if I can write good enough.

This can be a troubling place to be, depending on how your "good enough" meter is calibrated. For some people, self publishing might be where they set the meter. For others it might be New Yorker, or the London Times, or a particular literature prize or competition.

If you continue writing, and you get some good feedback on your material, and you take notice of that feedback, your writing will continue to improve. Trouble is, good stuff can get missed, or not picked up, or is just not in the right place at the right time.

Anyone on the forums here would encourage you to keep writing and keep submitting. Every step is one step closer.

Kim
 

Siddow

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I had to look at my spreadsheet; eight months, with five previous rejections. That story was rejected by the first market, and accepted by the second. The other rejections were for other stories.

But I took first place in two contests within six months of serious writing. Cash, but no publication.

I've now racked up over thirty rejections, with only three publications. The trick is to keep writing and submitting. At least now my rejections come with hand-written notes on the form letter. Wheee!
 

stormie

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I think most writers will say they've been writing since childhood. I'm one of them. Then when I was a teenager, I submitted a short story to a magazine and was rejected and dejected. I kept writing but not submitting. Finally about six years ago, determined to get published, I took out tons of books on writing from the library, got hold of a Writer's Market, and started the submissions game again. Was published by a small newspaper within a month. Pay was small, but it was a clip. I made sure I submitted about four essays or short stories a month, and worked on my first novel. I was determined and now it's my career.
 

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billyf027 said:
[how long and how many] until the first time you were published. It's so frustrating getting rejected. It's so easy to quit but if you have even one published story you know you can write. Until then you never know regardless of what a teacher, critique group, or any other reader says. Unless I'm published I will never know if I can write good enough.
So how long did it take you in time or submissions to get your first publishing credit?

I don't really know when to start the clock, so I'm not sure exactly how long or how many. However, it wasn't that long or that many because I was too chicken to submit for a really long time. Now that I do submit, I don't get a whole lot of rejections because I don't submit unless I'm about 85% sure they'll be interested. I really need to take more risks--I play it too safe.

And even though I'm published, it doesn't matter. I don't care about the first publishing credit I got, I care about the *next* one I get. So does it get easier? Maybe, but waiting and getting rejection letters is still tough even after you're used to it. The trick is knowing that it's worth it. It is.

Kristen
 
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