Novel Writing Software

Teetotaler · Jul 12, 2006

Is there a screenwriting software for novel writing; such as the equivalent of final draft to screenwriting?

James D. Macdonald · Jul 12, 2006

There are various novel-generating packages around. None of them worth a second thought.

LeeFlower · Jul 12, 2006

I've never understood what novel-writing software could possibly provide that a program like Word, WordPerfect, or OpenOffice doesn't already. I'm not trying to be a pain, either-- I honestly just don't get it. What is it they're supposed to do for you?

sunandshadow · Jul 13, 2006

There are programs designed to help you plot out a novel and design characters, which are interesting if not necessarily useful, but if you just want software to write with I would stick with a normal word processor like microsoft word or openoffice.

Flapdoodle · Jul 13, 2006

LeeFlower said:
I've never understood what novel-writing software could possibly provide that a program like Word, WordPerfect, or OpenOffice doesn't already. I'm not trying to be a pain, either-- I honestly just don't get it. What is it they're supposed to do for you?

I've tried a demo of something called Writers Cafe which is actually quite useful - it basically lets you create "cards" with scenes and arrange them. You can also put the content in.

The only thing that put me off was the poor "content" editing window (It's just a windows text box). I'd rather they used COM and allowed a Word document to be embedded in it.

The power of this tool is when you want to rejig scenes.

It was OK, but I didn't buy it as I found it somewhat lacking, but others might like it.

Ben King · Jul 13, 2006

If you have a Mac, CopyWrite is invaluable. It even lets you set a writing goal (characters, words or pages) and shows a percantage and a progress bar.

Best £20 I ever asked my dad to spend.

Mike Coombes · Jul 13, 2006

The only software you need is between your ears. There's no software out there that will give you imagination, or teach you grammar (yes, word has a rudimentary grammar checker, but it's often wrong, and even when it's right it won't tell you WHY it's right), or any of the other things you need.

Ben King · Jul 13, 2006

Oh yes, I'm not disputing that, but simply writing in Microsoft Word has it's disadvantages. Such software as CopyWrite makes the experience easier to organise.

Flapdoodle · Jul 13, 2006

Mike Coombes said:
The only software you need is between your ears. There's no software out there that will give you imagination, or teach you grammar (yes, word has a rudimentary grammar checker, but it's often wrong, and even when it's right it won't tell you WHY it's right), or any of the other things you need.

That's not true. I use VISIO to draw up charts and keep track of my characters and scenes. It's far easier than trying to go back over 70,000 words to see what's happening.

You are right that software won't do these things you mention, but software tools can aid development of a story/novel in the same was tool aid the creation of software! And as I'm a software engineer, I find myself using the same aids and techniques to plan and work out stories as I would for designing a software system.

Tools can't help with the "essential" part of writing a novel, but they can be a pretty useful aid. I currently have a novel plotted and 30,000 words written about 2 years. Thanks to the VISIO models and diagrams, I can go back to it at any time and pick it up again without any problems.

Arguably, I'm doing nothing special - people have been using charts and stuff to help with their writing for years. The beauty of software is that it's easy to edit and maintain such models.

rbflynn · Jul 13, 2006

A couple that come to mind...

I have been playing around with Dramatica and I find it... interesting. I have yet to really use it in depth, so I won't give an opinion either way about it. I will say that the creators have developed their own little "theory" on successful story-building. It is quite an interesting concept, but it is extremely complicated. Compounding the complication is that they created an entierly new "vocabulary" of terms which describe the different processes/facets of their theory. Users seem to agree on the fact that the single biggest hurdle of really mastering the theory is getting your brain wrapped around this new terminology. They also have an extremely active and accessible users group, which makes things easier to question, at least.

Also of interest is Spacejock Software. These are free programs developed by a published author (Simon Haynes). They are pretty much bare bones applications designed to fullfil a very specific function. I personally use 2 of them (Sonar, which assists in tracking submissions, and BookDB, which is, as you probably guessed, a catalog of your books) and they are terrific. He has a writing one as well which I have downloaded, but haven't really played with yet. So far I will endorse and heartily recommend the 2 I have used. I plan on looking at yWrite (the writing one) this weekend.

maestrowork · Jul 13, 2006

I agree with Uncle Jim. I have one (forgot the name...I think it is Dramatica), and no, I don't use it. I suppose it could be useful for those who like to outline and plot and structure like they would a software program. That's just not the way I write.

I also used personal brain (www.thebrain.com) to organize my ideas, character relationships, etc. It was pretty useful. The software is useful for other stuff, too, such as research (it could link URLs, etc.)

I also had a tablet PC that was very helpful for me to sketch out ideas, etc.

But now that I'm writing my second book, I find that I'm not using any of those. I am writing organically, and I keep everything in my brain and it seems to work.

mistri · Jul 13, 2006

Flapdoodle said:
I've tried a demo of something called Writers Cafe which is actually quite useful - it basically lets you create "cards" with scenes and arrange them. You can also put the content in.

The only thing that put me off was the poor "content" editing window (It's just a windows text box). I'd rather they used COM and allowed a Word document to be embedded in it.

The power of this tool is when you want to rejig scenes.

It was OK, but I didn't buy it as I found it somewhat lacking, but others might like it.

I bought it

While the some aspects are rather basic, I mostly just enjoy the ability to shuffle cards around on screen.

Before I was writing outlines in Word or Excel (sadly I can't get far without planning) but it was difficult to either see everything at once or move scenes and chapters around.

You start with a horizontal line with cards on. You move cards up and down the line to change the order of the story. You can also add multiple lines to each story.

For example, in my current WIP I have five different 'lines' for the one story, each for a different viewpoint (but you could use multiple lines to show subplots or whatever). I might put my first card/chapter description on the first line, then the second on the third line - this denotes that the first chapter is told from the first char's POV, and the second chapter from the third char's POV.

Consequently (I'm not describing this very well, but maybe I'll get a screengrab once I'm at home), you can see how individual storylines are run as well as the overall picture.

I also find it useful to export the cards/storyline into a Word document, because sometimes it helps to see it in a more traditional format.

So obviously it won't work or be necessary for most people. But as a disorganized planner/plotter, I find it invaluable.

Flapdoodle · Jul 13, 2006

maestrowork said:
I agree with Uncle Jim. I have one (forgot the name...I think it is Dramatica), and no, I don't use it. I suppose it could be useful for those who like to outline and plot and structure like they would a software program. That's just not the way I write.

I also used personal brain (www.thebrain.com) to organize my ideas, character relationships, etc. It was pretty useful. The software is useful for other stuff, too, such as research (it could link URLs, etc.)

I also had a tablet PC that was very helpful for me to sketch out ideas, etc.

But now that I'm writing my second book, I find that I'm not using any of those. I am writing organically, and I keep everything in my brain and it seems to work.

One of the "trends" in software development is to write "stories" or "use cases" that are basically little narratives as to how the software is going to be used. As a consequence, UML has some very useful diagram forms for keeping track of "actors" and describing their roles, and detailing how they interact. I use it to plan interactions of characters in the story and keep track of who is doing what to who. It sounds technical, but it's very simple.

I keep it in my brain, but I found I have a habit of doing 30,000 words of something and leaving it to start something else. When I go back, I've lost track of what I planned. Unfortunately, I tend to work on a number of things at the same time.

bsolah · Jul 13, 2006

rbflynn said:
Also of interest is Spacejock Software. These are free programs developed by a published author (Simon Haynes). They are pretty much bare bones applications designed to fullfil a very specific function. I personally use 2 of them (Sonar, which assists in tracking submissions, and BookDB, which is, as you probably guessed, a catalog of your books) and they are terrific. He has a writing one as well which I have downloaded, but haven't really played with yet. So far I will endorse and heartily recommend the 2 I have used. I plan on looking at yWrite (the writing one) this weekend.

I have both Sonar2 and yWriter2. I don't use yWriter2 because I prefer to just use my Word processor. Too many gadgets can easily distract me but Sonar is a gem!

Also, Simon is a member of ours here. I'm sure you've seen him around.

maestrowork · Jul 13, 2006

I came from the IT/business world, so I am very familiar with object oriented design and UMLs. They CAN be very useful for someone who is very organized, or need "development" discipline. If you're familiar with project planning, a gantt chart, spread sheets, etc. are all great tools.

But all that are just tools. For software engineers or project managers, they can use certain tools to help them organize ideas, characters, etc. For someone with an art degree, they have something else. The basic concepts are the same, and many of these software packages simply take some concepts and turn them into an application. They can be useful for inexperienced writers.

For experienced writers, they all have over the years developed their own methods -- some use index cards, spreadsheets, notepad paper, Post-It notes, storyboards, etc. It really comes down to what you are familiar and comfortable with. Now that I'm a bit more "seasoned," I find myself not using any of these methods. My brain is a giant computer and I do all that in my head. When I find that it's just too much, maybe I will find something to keep me organized. Personally, I think too many tools and gadgets distract from the creative process. I would only recommend these tools when someone clearly has a problem with organization.

Flapdoodle · Jul 13, 2006

maestrowork said:
I came from the IT/business world, so I am very familiar with object oriented design and UMLs. They CAN be very useful for someone who is very organized, or need "development" discipline. If you're familiar with project planning, a gantt chart, spread sheets, etc. are all great tools.

But all that are just tools. For software engineers or project managers, they can use certain tools to help them organize ideas, characters, etc. For someone with an art degree, they have something else. The basic concepts are the same, and many of these software packages simply take some concepts and turn them into an application. They can be useful for inexperienced writers.

For experienced writers, they all have over the years developed their own methods -- some use index cards, spreadsheets, notepad paper, Post-It notes, storyboards, etc. It really comes down to what you are familiar and comfortable with. Now that I'm a bit more "seasoned," I find myself not using any of these methods. My brain is a giant computer and I do all that in my head. When I find that it's just too much, maybe I will find something to keep me organized. Personally, I think too many tools and gadgets distract from the creative process. I would only recommend these tools when someone clearly has a problem with organization.

Well I did say a while back they were just "tools" and would not help solve any of the "essential" problems of writing a story. If you've read Fred Brookes you'll understand what I mean.

That's a rather arrogant attitude, though. "People who use tools have a problem with organising." I wither in the shadow of your obvious genius for being able to keep it all in your "computer brain".

Given that the usage of tools is an excercise in "organising" characters around scenes and storylines, I find it quite strange that you think someone who uses any of these techniques has a "problem".

:Hail:

mistri · Jul 13, 2006

Yes, I must say I don't think people who use tools necessarily have a problem with organising either.

While I could keep all the info in my head, tools can (for some people) speed up certain processes.

Aside from that, I like to think of the tools I use as a backup to the information in my head

rbflynn · Jul 13, 2006

mistri said:
Aside from that, I like to think of the tools I use as a backup to the information in my head

I think that's the main thing I need as well. That and a way to catalogue and corral my meandering muse.

maestrowork · Jul 13, 2006

Flapdoodle said:
That's a rather arrogant attitude, though. "People who use tools have a problem with organising."

Please do not put words in my mouth. Reread what I wrote. I said I would only "recommend" tools for those who have problems with organization. I never said those who use tools have problems with organization. I have used tools. I like tools. But I wouldn't say, "Hey you, you must use these tools." People who don't need to use tools are just fine.

I used tools for my first book. I am not using any for this one -- and I said I would use them when I need them. That's all I am saying.

Just because I keep all the stuff in my brain doesn't mean I am better than you are. Again, please do not try to put words in my mouth. I mean, who is the arrogant one here?

Thank you.

AnnMB · Jul 13, 2006

What about Editing software? Any recommendations there?

Gillhoughly · Jul 13, 2006

Drat. I was hoping that Dramatica would propel me to the top of the bestsellers list and get me on the talk show circuit. Two minutes on Oprah and I could pay off my house.

Right, Uncle Jim has saved me 40 bucks on eBay. Thanks, dude!

I expect we now have a generation that is relying on softwares to do their thinking for them. We do, but I limit mine to Turbo Tax. (Which still screwed up for me this year.)

I have Movie Magic 2000 Screenwriter--mostly for the automatic screenplay formating--and it has a very handy index card shuffling feature which I used to keep track of the action on my WIP novel.

I type in character sketches, plot points, action scenes, etc., on the "cards", print the lot, cut them out, then tape them up on a blank wall. I swap them around until they're in an order that makes sense and use that for my "outline."

Prior to this I used regular index cards, pen, and tape. A co-writer and I have twice plotted out whole novels in just a couple hours, laying the cards out on the floor in storyboard fashion. Whenever we got an idea to include we'd sandwich its card between the others.

Then we broke for lunch.

I use the 'puter version because my handwriting is a trainwreck, and I type faster than I scribble.

Prior to this I spent several years in the 808 section of the library reading books on how to write books. The index card idea was in a 1960s Writer's Market in the reference section. It stuck with me ever since.

Kristen King · Jul 13, 2006

Gillhoughly said:
I expect we now have a generation that is relying on softwares to do their thinking for them.
...
I type in character sketches, plot points, action scenes, etc., on the "cards", print the lot, cut them out, then tape them up on a blank wall. I swap them around until they're in an order that makes sense and use that for my "outline."

Prior to this I used regular index cards, pen, and tape. A co-writer and I have twice plotted out whole novels in just a couple hours, laying the cards out on the floor in storyboard fashion. Whenever we got an idea to include we'd sandwich its card between the others.

And this is what I was just about to suggest. Why not compose in Word or a similar word processing program and organize in hard copy? People were writing books for ages and ages before computers came along. It seems as though we've suddenly become helpless in the face of technology.

My husband will write a shopping list on a scrap of paper and then spend 20 minutes entering it into his Palm Pilot because "it's more efficient that way." Huh? Why waste time trying to figure out how to do something technologically when it's easier, faster, and equally useful to do it the old-fashioned way? Plus, God forbid your computer crash (or be stolen), at least you have something to fall back on.

There's nothing wrong with these software programs, and certainly they do have their advantages, but you simply don't need them. They're a luxury. You can do it without them.

Siddow · Jul 13, 2006

Editing software sounds great. Transfer my novel to it, hit GO, and have it auto-fix all my jumbled sentences, move paragraphs and whole scenes around...ahhhh.

I use the Document Map in Word to outline and compose. It makes it easy to navigate through the doc and a quick glance at the outline on the side of the page helps me to see what's coming up.

Once I've finished and moved on to editing, I just open a new doc (in doc map mode) and transfer the good stuff, makes notes of scenes to add in between the keepers, and move through it. Before I do that, I print a copy and go through it by hand, though. I can decieve myself on-screen, thinking something is smooth when on paper, it's crap.

HConn · Jul 13, 2006

Final Draft is formatting software (with some bells and whistles that make it easy to generate production materials from the script). Novel formatting is so simple that no special software is needed. Pretty much any word processing program will do.

zornhau · Jul 13, 2006

MS Word in Outline View

I use MS Word in Outline view, with Tools>Options, Wrap to window enabled.

Honestly, it's all you need. Use the built-in headings for the outline and off you go.

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