Defining "Successful"

nancy02664 · Jul 11, 2006

Hi everyone,

This might be a hard question to answer, but I'd appreciate any guesses:

What sort of sales figures would a nonfiction book have to achieve before a major publisher would consider it a success? (5,000 copies? 10,000? 20,000?)

underthecity · Jul 11, 2006

Nancy,

I think that might depend on the publisher and the particular nonfiction book.

For instance, my first book is a regional history nonfiction book. It's sold over 5,000 copies. For my publisher, this is a very good number. For Harper Collins, this would be a very LOW number.

The term "success" is hard to define here unless I have a little more information. Is it a large publisher with national distribution, or a smaller press with more limited distribution? What was the initial print run? What's the subject matter?

A given nonfiction book might sell extremely well. Complete Idiots Guides for instance, or business books. But if it meets the publisher's expectations on sales, then I would say it was a success. Especially if they issue a reprint.

allen

Tish Davidson · Jul 11, 2006

It also depends on what it costs to produce the book. Books with photos and art books or coffee table books usually cost more to produce. It also depends on whether the book is a hardback or a trade paperback.

aka eraser · Jul 11, 2006

All publishers consider a book a success if they make money on it. Generally speaking, a larger publisher pays bigger advances, hires higher-salaried employees and outside fact checkers and spends more on catalogues, sales people and advertising. Therefore, to make a profit they need to sell more books than a small publisher might.

Sooooooo....I'm thinking at least 15,000+ in hard cover or trade paper before a smile might cross a large pub's lips.

nancy02664 · Jul 11, 2006

Thanks for your replies. I apologize for not including details. I'm writing a baby name book and have an agent shopping it around for me, but it hasn't been sold yet, so I have no idea about the size or expectations of the publisher. I do know, though, that the book will be paperback and have no photos or illustrations.

I'm wondering about the numbers because I'm hoping to spin this book off into a series, and I'd like to know what kind of sales I should aim for to make my (future) publisher enthused enough to want to pick up the subsequent books.

Sassenach · Jul 12, 2006

I suppose it would depend on what makes a book unique. My first thought when you mentioned a "baby name book" is that there are already dozens on the market.

ResearchGuy · Jul 12, 2006

nancy02664 said:
...What sort of sales figures would a nonfiction book have to achieve before a major publisher would consider it a success? (5,000 copies? 10,000? 20,000?)

I recently heard (from someone associated with the books) that the Chicken Soup books are expected to sell a minimum of 80,000 to 100,000, but the publisher doesn't even want to look at a proposal unless there is a clearly identified target market of one to two million.

You might want to spend some time browsing the reviews in Publishers Weekly with an eye on reported first-printing sizes. Those are only included in some reviews, but still might be worth a look.

FWIW.

--Ken

ResearchGuy · Jul 12, 2006

aka eraser said:
...
Sooooooo....I'm thinking at least 15,000+ in hard cover or trade paper before a smile might cross a large pub's lips.

I suspect that 15k would be dismal failure for any large publisher, but fine for many small or niche publishers.

BTW, FWIW, I once heard a literary agent say that a self-published book that sells 5,000 copies may pique the interest of a commercial publisher. (My inference is that if a book can sell 5k with the handicaps that burden self-publishers, it could do well with a commercial publisher's marketing and distribution abiliites.)

--Ken

MOON GODDESS · Jul 12, 2006

Well, Nancy, I think you got some good advice. My definition of success: If the title of your book is a household word and on the NYT bestseller list--You're successful. LOL!
FOR ALLEN: Your books look interesting. How did you get them on Absolute Write? I hate giving out personal information on message boards, but I wrote a book for Arcadia about the Pennsylvania town I grew up in, called "Around Bangor." If anyone out there is interested in slate quarries, railroads or the 1960's actress Jayne Mansfield, check it out at www.arcadiapublishing.com. They're also on www.amazon.com and www.bn.com.

nancy02664 · Jul 12, 2006

Thank you for all the responses.

I think now that my initial guesses (5k, 10k...) were probably on the (very?) low side.

Thanks for helping me put things in perspective.

underthecity · Jul 13, 2006

Nancy, good luck with your project, I hope it all works out for you.

Moon Goddess, AW has a the "Absolute Write Library" for the published authors at AW. Just visit the forum and post your book. It's that easy!

allen

Talia · Jul 13, 2006

I had an agent tell me he wasn't interested in representing anyone that had sold < 100,000 copies so maybe that's the definition of "success"

but yes i like the idea of being a household name lol

Jamesaritchie · Jul 14, 2006

aka eraser said:
All publishers consider a book a success if they make money on it. Generally speaking, a larger publisher pays bigger advances, hires higher-salaried employees and outside fact checkers and spends more on catalogues, sales people and advertising. Therefore, to make a profit they need to sell more books than a small publisher might.

Sooooooo....I'm thinking at least 15,000+ in hard cover or trade paper before a smile might cross a large pub's lips.

It takes more than simply earning a profit to make a book successful. Publishers usually earn quite a bit on midlist titles, and they aren't considered successful.

To a large publisher, a book is only considered a success if it earns as much or more than it's expected to earn, and at least as much as other books like it earn.

Depending on the kind of book, this can be anywhere from 5-50K

Defining "Successful"

nancy02664

Baby Name Maniac

underthecity

Finestkind

Tish Davidson

aka eraser

Fish Whisperer

nancy02664

Baby Name Maniac

Sassenach

5 W's & an H

ResearchGuy

Resident Curmudgeon

ResearchGuy

Resident Curmudgeon

MOON GODDESS

nancy02664

Baby Name Maniac

underthecity

Finestkind

Talia

Contract Killer

Jamesaritchie