Format question

Winterchase

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In a scene where attention is focused on this or that, which should be used? To me, leaving out the ONs and ON THEs makes it look cleaner.

ON BOB
Who is .. whatever

or

BOB
Who is .. whatever
 

cooeedownunder

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I know little, but if you are refering to camera angles...no ON or for that matter OFF should be used. Not even sure where they came from?

If it is a spec script it is not your job to show camera angles, but more so to show what is in each scene.

The words you use show automatically who we see and hear on a screen.

Example;

BOB (O.S.)
You can't see me but you can hear me.

BOB
Woo hoo! Here I am. Aint I handsome?

The (O.S.) means (off screen) this person is not shown on screen and we only hear their voice...

Hope this helps.
 
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dpaterso

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Are you talking mini-slugs? Can be a LOCATION (which has been defined previously) or a CHARACTER NAME (ditto), e.g.

JEWELRY STORE

Mary tries on a ring, admires the sparkle.

MARY
Are these diamonds real?

FAWNING SALESMAN
If they were not real, madam,
we would not be allowed to
call them diamonds.

BOB

slips a ring from the tray and into his pocket.

MARY
I guess you wouldn't. I'll take it!
If that's all right with you, honey?

BOB
It's all right with me, babe.

Fawning Salesman frowns at the empty tray slot.

-Derek
My Web Page - naked women, bestial sex, and whopping big lies.
Take the critiques you get with a grain of salt. Invariably, some of the critics will be kooks, bitter curmudgeons, or complete fools. ~odocoileus
 

scripter1

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It's a matter of style

and clarity.

Actually I would say clarity comes first.

If you NEED the ON or (off Bob's look) then use it, sparingly.

The vast majority of the time placing an important event all by itself on it's own line is all that is needed to make the action stand out.
Especially if the scene is well written and is carrying itself.
In a well written, working scene it should be OBVIOUS that one little detail all by itself on a line needs to be emphazised, zoomed in on, or a huge point of focus in actual filming.
 

cooeedownunder

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dpaterso said:
Are you talking mini-slugs? Can be a LOCATION (which has been defined previously) or a CHARACTER NAME (ditto), e.g.

JEWELRY STORE

Mary tries on a ring, admires the sparkle.

MARY
Are these diamonds real?

FAWNING SALESMAN
If they were not real, madam,
we would not be allowed to
call them diamonds.

BOB

slips a ring from the tray and into his pocket.

MARY
I guess you wouldn't. I'll take it!
If that's all right with you, honey?

BOB
It's all right with me, babe.

Fawning Salesman frowns at the empty tray slot.

-Derek
My Web Page - naked women, bestial sex, and whopping big lies.
Take the critiques you get with a grain of salt. Invariably, some of the
critics will be kooks, bitter curmudgeons, or complete fools. ~odocoileus

I think this could make a great story! LOLOL
 

Goodwriterguy

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dpaterso said:
Are you talking mini-slugs? Can be a LOCATION (which has been defined previously) or a CHARACTER NAME (ditto), e.g.

JEWELRY STORE

Mary tries on a ring, admires the sparkle.

MARY
Are these diamonds real?

FAWNING SALESMAN
If they were not real, madam,
we would not be allowed to
call them diamonds.

BOB

slips a ring from the tray and into his pocket.

MARY
I guess you wouldn't. I'll take it!
If that's all right with you, honey?

BOB
It's all right with me, babe.

Fawning Salesman frowns at the empty tray slot.

-Derek
My Web Page - naked women, bestial sex, and whopping big lies.
Take the critiques you get with a grain of salt. Invariably, some of the critics will be kooks, bitter curmudgeons, or complete fools. ~odocoileus
Actually the slug "BOB" isn't necessary at all. See the opening line,

Mary tries on a ring, admires the sparkle.

and compare to:

BOB

slips a ring from the tray and into his pocket.

The first rendition, with Mary, imlpies no angle on her; except to actually see her admiring "the sparkle" would likely prompt a director to do it in closeup, i.e., in an angle.

In the BOB rendition, the slug says "this is an angle" and of course to see Bob pocket the ring, it probabnly should be in its own angle, and close.

But as another noted, just by outting something on its own line is sufficient for a spec writer, because paragraphs, whether a single line or more, are usually taken to be shots, and should indeed be written with that in mind.

Typically, movies cut every five to seven seconds on average, the same length of time it takes to read a two or three line paragraph. We write short concise paragraphs so they impart a movie like feel to the read.

And because paragraphs are taken by readers to be shots, they should decribe one action or behavior or setting that can indeed be filmed in a shot, or very closely related actions or behaviors. But not disparate ones.

When the action changes, start a new paragraph.

In the above example, both the line having to do with Mary and the one having to do with Bob would be properly formed as single-line entries, as it was written for Mary, that is, no slug.

The last thing a spec writer ought to do is "slug a scene," that is, include a whole series of sluglines to depict its order in the form of shots. A bit of this now and again in super tense or highly dramatic or revelatory scenes is okay, we all do that. But as a general rule, don't be slugging all your scenes. Just write paragraphs that can be filmed in an angle, and let it go at that. You'll get a movie-like read out of it.
 

dpaterso

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Well sure, I'm not advocating overuse of mini-slugs, and especially not "a whole series of sluglines" :) -- I was just tryin' to answer Winterchase's question with a simple example while mostly guessing what s/he meant. But when there's a small, easily overlooked action off the main action that's important, I'd maybe want to draw attention to it, and I think that's when mini-slugs can come into play.

-Derek
My Web Page - naked women, bestial sex, and whopping big lies.
Take the critiques you get with a grain of salt. Invariably, some of the critics will be kooks, bitter curmudgeons, or complete fools. ~odocoileus
 

yantubos

I don't use many directions in my scripts. I'm not a director, haven't taken any film classes, and wouldn't know where to begin telling a director how to shoot my script. Sure, I have ideas, but I'll leave all that mess to the director.

The closest I come is something like:

We see Bob coming out of the jewelry store, a sparkling ring on his finger. Hand in front of his face, Bob eyes the ring and smiles.

I'll let the director interpret how to show that on screen.
 

Boo_Radley

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I'm with Dpat on this one, and the example he uses is pretty much what I use when writing.

Mini-slugs help a lot during action scenes, and drawing attention to something by capitalizing it is a good way to "lead" the reader's eye without including those pesky camera instructions.

Example:

Tom and Bob stand nose to nose, mid-argument. Tom seethes with blind fury...so blind that he doesn't notice

BOB'S HAND

slide behind Bob's back and wrap around the grip of a PISTOL.

TOM

continues his vocal assault...
etc.

I wouldn't recommend writing your entire screenplay like this, but it comes in handy when wanting the reader to notice a specific thing or, as when I capitalized the name "Tom," to draw your attention back to him, all without nary a camera direction, INSERT or BACK TO SCENE in sight.
 

dpaterso

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yantubos said:
We see Bob coming out of the jewelry store, a sparkling ring on his finger. Hand in front of his face, Bob eyes the ring and smiles.

You've skipped to a new scene so it's difficult to compare, but -- the above doesn't work so good for me because 1) wearing the ring and admiring it openly makes Bob seem like an idiot who wants to get arrested, 2) if we don't see him steal this ring, we don't know where he got it from, 3) he just left Mary in the jewelry store (what would her reaction be to discovering the theft?) and, 4) maybe Bob planned to give the stolen ring to Mary later (without telling her it's stolen), i.e. he told the Salesman they've changed their minds about the ring Mary tried on (so he doesn't have to pay for it). He'd want to hide the ring he stole, not flaunt it, but if he hides it, we don't know he has it -- unless we show the theft first.

Trivial, "We see Bob coming out of the jewelry store..." is a wordy version of

EXT. JEWELRY STORE - DAY

Bob exits, grinning.

-Derek
My Web Page - naked women, bestial sex, and whopping big lies.
Take the critiques you get with a grain of salt. Invariably, some of the critics will be kooks, bitter curmudgeons, or complete fools. ~odocoileus
 

icerose

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Not to mention that if the Jewelry counter guy had just shown the ring and only two people were in the store, neither had left, and the ring was gone, he'd be for hitting the security and closing the gates. So if that is so, you would want Bob to be gone before he notices. Then he'd just have to worry about security footage and the store clerk's memory.

Sorry, my bit on logic. :Ssh:
 

yantubos

dpaterso said:
You've skipped to a new scene so it's difficult to compare, but -- the above doesn't work so good for me because 1) wearing the ring and admiring it openly makes Bob seem like an idiot who wants to get arrested, 2) if we don't see him steal this ring, we don't know where he got it from, 3) he just left Mary in the jewelry store (what would her reaction be to discovering the theft?) and, 4) maybe Bob planned to give the stolen ring to Mary later (without telling her it's stolen), i.e. he told the Salesman they've changed their minds about the ring Mary tried on (so he doesn't have to pay for it). He'd want to hide the ring he stole, not flaunt it, but if he hides it, we don't know he has it -- unless we show the theft first.

Trivial, "We see Bob coming out of the jewelry store..." is a wordy version of

EXT. JEWELRY STORE - DAY

Bob exits, grinning.

-Derek
My Web Page - naked women, bestial sex, and whopping big lies.
Take the critiques you get with a grain of salt. Invariably, some of the critics will be kooks, bitter curmudgeons, or complete fools. ~odocoileus

It was just an example. And yes, obviously, if it's a new scene, the location would be in the new slug line.
 

Goodwriterguy

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Boo_Radley said:
I'm with Dpat on this one, and the example he uses is pretty much what I use when writing.

Mini-slugs help a lot during action scenes, and drawing attention to something by capitalizing it is a good way to "lead" the reader's eye without including those pesky camera instructions.

Example:

Tom and Bob stand nose to nose, mid-argument. Tom seethes with blind fury...so blind that he doesn't notice

BOB'S HAND

slide behind Bob's back and wrap around the grip of a PISTOL.

TOM

continues his vocal assault...etc.

I wouldn't recommend writing your entire screenplay like this, but it comes in handy when wanting the reader to notice a specific thing or, as when I capitalized the name "Tom," to draw your attention back to him, all without nary a camera direction, INSERT or BACK TO SCENE in sight.
This is indeed a particular style that's commonly seen. I think it has generally fallen out of vogue however and oher approaches are being used, some even from before this style came around. It's okay, but its downside is that over the full length of a script it wears on you, it tends to become trite and "too cute," as it were. I suppose this occurs particularly when it isn't used in proper instances or is overused. I've heard readers say it insults their intelligence. Go figure.

In my experience it would be considered passe'.

As a spec writer you have nothing to say about the camera except insofar as you can imply the camera by writing what's being seen on the screen. Clearly, you know this. Mini-slugs eat up vertical space and their intent can be handled within the narrative in ways that are just as effective, and use less vertical space. For example:

Tom and Bob stand nose to nose, mid-argument. Tom seethes with blind fury...so blind that he doesn't notice Bob's hand slide behind Bob's back and wrap around the grip of a pistol.

The same information is conveyed, precisely the same. The read goes more smoothly, two sentences. What's really the difference between "Bob's hand" and "BOB'S HAND"? Or "pistol" and "PISTOL"? Nothing in terms of meaning. They both mean the same thing. Hey the reader is going to read the script, you really don't need to lead them by the nose through it.

Another problem with this form is that it's too directorial ... implying a NEW ANGLE when in fact one is probably not necessary. Directors don't like this in a script. In your example,

Tom and Bob stand nose to nose, mid-argument. Tom seethes with blind fury...so blind that he doesn't notice

BOB'S HAND

slide behind Bob's back and wrap around the grip of a PISTOL.

"BOB'S HAND" comes off like a mini-slug, yet you don't mean it to be that at all. You've only set it off on its own line as a means of putting attention on it.

When this form first came into common use, Directors would remnark, "Is this supposed to be a slug, or WTF?"

And when you lace an action scene with these "attention getters" it does make the scene appear to have been slugged and that's not a spec writers job, that's your directors job.

Not to say I haven't used this form a time or two, but after hearing what folks have said about it and thinking about their remarks, I'm much less inclined to use it today.

Do an experiment, take an action scene you've written using this form and revise the "attention getters" out and just write it in a more normal or traditional manner; print the two out and lay them side by side and compare them. Read tem both one after the other. You might be surprised.

But, to each his own, eh?
 
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Goodwriterguy

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yantubos said:
I don't use many directions in my scripts. I'm not a director, haven't taken any film classes, and wouldn't know where to begin telling a director how to shoot my script. Sure, I have ideas, but I'll leave all that mess to the director.

The closest I come is something like:

We see Bob coming out of the jewelry store, a sparkling ring on his finger. Hand in front of his face, Bob eyes the ring and smiles.

I'll let the director interpret how to show that on screen.

Please, do not ever use "we see" in a spec, or very rarely and then only in a reveal perhaps. It simply isn't necessary. And write your narrative in present tense, not anything else.

Bob comes out of the jewelry store ...

is all you need. If you write this, then that is what we are seeing, nothing else. We see what you write, no more, no less. If you write it, we see it; if you do not write it, we don't see it.

Keep chugging!
 

scripter1

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I agree with Good writer

to some extent.

I don't really care for the seperated

BOB'S HAND

blah blah blah.


I know we are just tossing around examples like a thrown together lunch salad, however as it is this example has no real baring on the story.

Bob having a hand, or even moving it for his pistol doesn't dramatically alter the story OR show us something that we must absolutly see in close up. This example is more of a director's choice thing.
It could be just as well written out in standard action lines, (as GW said) or stacked.
(I think it would be good shot to see a close up of the hand and the pistol but I wouldn't consider this worth the risk of confusing the reader.)

NOW HOWEVER, if for some reason we believed that Bob didn't have any hands, or if he was reaching for a SPECIFC pistol that had been setup earlier it would be more effective.

Most of what I see used in scripts is ALL CAPS for an item or its own line for an action.

I basically view the sluging of this as wasted space that could have been put to better use.
 
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Boo_Radley

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Again, it's something I'd use sparingly (and I do). The example I posted wasn't a big action scene, just a quick (and cheesy) example. I'm in agreement that it should not be overused.