To h*ll with it (retrieved)

06-11-2006, 09:51 AM emeraldcite vbmenu_register("postmenu_639663", true);
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Exceptions don't make the rule, but they are interesting to read about...


Edit: Not to mention, Scalzi is a kick a-- writer. He has quite a number of years writing under his belt. And Cherie Priest was also an employed writer (i think she did something with ad copy) before moving into that realm.

I'm not sure about Wellington, but his published work is more a grass roots movement.
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06-11-2006, 09:54 AM PeeDee vbmenu_register("postmenu_639667", true);
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I've talked about it before, here. I would love to feasibly do a web-based series of stories. Not even necessarily seek major publication with them (probably put them up through Lulu, if anyone wants them in hard copy) just do a story a week or so. I think it would be great. It's nostalgia talking, but it would still be great.

I just haven't worked out a way in which I'm confident about doing it, and which is feasible.

So, I always find it interesting to see people like Cherie Priest doing exactly that, or something similar. emeraldcite's right, it's fascinating to read about.
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06-11-2006, 01:18 PM James D. Macdonald vbmenu_register("postmenu_639968", true);
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06-11-2006, 01:20 PM PeeDee vbmenu_register("postmenu_639974", true);
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Sage advice, really.
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06-11-2006, 04:20 PM Flapdoodle vbmenu_register("postmenu_640224", true);
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaxil
I have a weird question relating to this,

If someone publishes it on a website, (and I'm going to go as far as saying 'fictionpress.com',) and you send your novel in and even if it was removed from the website, they still refuse to publish it?


I remember some years ago a bloke published a novel on the net called "The Truth Machines" or something. It was pretty bad. I almost had a heart attack when I saw it, a few years later, in UK bookshops - published by one of the majors!
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06-11-2006, 04:39 PM PeeDee vbmenu_register("postmenu_640247", true);
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Sure, it happens. The thing is, it's the rather than the rule.

Additionally, if the novel was bad, was the publisher making any money off it? Will the author manage a second book? Was this anything more useful than a gimmick, and was it a gimmick on the part of the author, or the publisher?
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06-11-2006, 04:52 PM Flapdoodle vbmenu_register("postmenu_640270", true);
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeDee
Sure, it happens. The thing is, it's the rather than the rule.

Additionally, if the novel was bad, was the publisher making any money off it? Will the author manage a second book? Was this anything more useful than a gimmick, and was it a gimmick on the part of the author, or the publisher?


All I can remember is that he had this book freely downloadable, and most people who read it on the sf usenet groups thought it was terrible. Incredible, it has a wikipedia entry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Truth_Machine

He seems to have one other book out, and the free download is still around!
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06-11-2006, 07:58 PM argenianpoet vbmenu_register("postmenu_640576", true);
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elwyn
I've been reading about all the frustrations most folks here at the water cooler have had trying to find an agent to even read their email query. And, I've experienced the same frustration. Take a year or more to write what you think is worth reading, then spend the next five years trying to get the attention of an agent or publisher? Bah!


I'm with you here man, but there are other ways of catching an agent's eye. Sure they are stubborn, but you must be stubborn also and find an angle to get your book recognized and publishing it on the web is not a good route, that is, if you wish a 'real publisher' to take you seriously. Otherwise, post away...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elwyn
So, I'm puttin' it on the Web. Of course I'll do what I can to get folks to go to the site. If the stuffs worth reading maybe they'll email their friends and spread the word. If it flops, so be it. But, if it takes off, the second book (which continues the story) will go to the agent or publisher that offers the best deal. If it's good enough, maybe enough readers will hound the publishers to print the second book.


This is where I will insert my two sense: maybe you should consider a small press publisher and there are thousands of them no one has ever heard of, and then there are the ones that are popular. My point is, your chances there are almost limitless...keyword, almost. Presently, I am deciding to take an offer from a small press publisher because I have been turned down so many times by agents that I know they are wrong. I may be a new writer, but I've been doing it for sixteen years now and I think I've gotten pretty good at it. Just don't let the total rejection take you down with it, because if you do you will never make it as a published author, keyword, published. Anyway, rejection sucks, but let it make you a stronger person, not the other way around. I have the awesome ability to see positive in almost anything, and in fact, it was the only way that I could quit smoking cigarettes, but that's another story...isn't it? The point is to not give up; maybe you could get a small press publisher or maybe you could catch an agents eye at a writer's convention or something...who knows? The possibilities are endless and you must look at it that way if you are to succeed. I am in the same boat you are in now and I feel angry too, but I refuse to let it take me down...I refuse! I SAY BRING IT ON, BECAUSE I AM STEADY AS A WELL-ROOTED TREE!

Quote:
Originally Posted by elwyn
Anyway, thanks to all who've shared their experiences, guidance, help, encouragement and tribulations. I've learned a LOT here. I had no idea there were so many folks who wanted to write and certainly had no idea that it was so hard to get published. I'm glad I wrote the book before I found that out, or I probably would not have bothered.


I could not agree more. You learn a lot (and that is an understatement) here at AW, and I am glad that I am aboard! Thanks to all who share their frustration, because to ignore it is to lie!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elwyn
When the sites up, I'll post a message here for any of you that want to read it and comment. All comments are welcome.


If this is the route you choose (which I strongly disagree) we would all appreciate the link to this site. I wish you the best of luck Elwyn, and by the way, "Howdy!"


Quote:
Originally Posted by Elwyn
Later,
Elwyn


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06-11-2006, 10:08 PM Mac H. vbmenu_register("postmenu_640796", true);
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Scott Adams tried an ePublishing experiment by putting one of his books on the web for free download.

Plenty of people downloaded the free book.

And it improved the sales of the sequel (in hard copy) by ... 0%.

Yep - as far as he can tell, it made NO improvement on sales.

Basically, people who liked the first one now understand that they just need to wait for a bit for the sequel to be free too. Or, if it doesn't become free, they'll know the true value of the words - $0 and be smart enough not to pay a cent more.

Mac
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06-11-2006, 10:09 PM DeniseK vbmenu_register("postmenu_640798", true);
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06-11-2006, 10:14 PM PeeDee vbmenu_register("postmenu_640806", true);
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Stephen King also tried it. Remember The Plant? That didn't work well.

extremely bestselling author Tad Williams tried it with the first book of Shadowmarch. There were a lot of people reading it, but it wound up being less productive than if he'd released it as a book....which, in time, is exactly what he wound up doing (I read it when it was online, I happily finished it in book form.)

And the beat goes on...
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06-11-2006, 10:53 PM gabbleandhiss vbmenu_register("postmenu_640913", true);
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//
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flapdoodle
Incredible, it has a wikipedia entry.


How is that incredible? Anyone with an account can contribute and edit Wikipedia items.
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06-11-2006, 11:09 PM RG570 vbmenu_register("postmenu_640952", true);
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Cory Doctorow's experiment with releasing free stuff on the web seems to have worked well for him.
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06-12-2006, 03:15 AM Flapdoodle vbmenu_register("postmenu_641134", true);
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabbleandhiss
How is that incredible? Anyone with an account can contribute and edit Wikipedia items.


I meant "incredible" in the sense of it's incredible that a rubbish novel like that has a wikipedia entry. Not that an entry exists. I'm well aware of how it works, as we use the same engine as our internal intranet!
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06-12-2006, 07:22 AM Aconite vbmenu_register("postmenu_641277", true);
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RG570
Cory Doctorow's experiment with releasing free stuff on the web seems to have worked well for him.

Cory has an educated target readership familiar with the concept of downloading something for free and voluntarily paying if you find it useful. They "get" the concept of gift economy. The same cannot be said for most target readerships.
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06-12-2006, 08:42 AM JimmyB27 vbmenu_register("postmenu_641359", true);
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac H.
Scott Adams tried an ePublishing experiment by putting one of his books on the web for free download.

Plenty of people downloaded the free book.

And it improved the sales of the sequel (in hard copy) by ... 0%.

Yep - as far as he can tell, it made NO improvement on sales.

Basically, people who liked the first one now understand that they just need to wait for a bit for the sequel to be free too. Or, if it doesn't become free, they'll know the true value of the words - $0 and be smart enough not to pay a cent more.

Mac


I think you have to do more than just give a book away to improve sales. I believe it has to be a *good* book. Much as I adore Dilbert, and much as I am a regular reader of the Dilbert Blog, I though God's Debris was poorly written, with little real story - it's more of a dumping ground for Scott's ideas about religion IMHO. And, no, I'm not simply poo-pooing his ideas, I find them very interesting as he presents them in the blog, I just don't think the way he presents them in the book is very good.
Given that, it's not surprising that sales of the sequel didn't improve.

There was an interesting survey done within the music sector regarding illegal downloads that may have some relevance here. I have no source for this, none better than 'my mate told me' anyway. Nor am I sure that the music industry works as a viable parallel to the publishing industry, but make of it what you will.
This survey essentially concluded that people who illegally download music spent considerably more on legal music than those who didn't. The theory is that the downloaders were the real music fans who wanted to sample the music before they shelled out for it.
As I say, I don't know if the same would be true of the publishing industry, but readers still seem to prefer a hard copy they can hold and sit on a bookshelf to an electronic copy. Plus, knowing an author is actually readable before you spend money on his work would surely be a benefit. I do intend to put some stuff up on the web for free myself. Probably not an entire novel, my plan at the moment is for a short story site, with a new one going up every week or so. This will, hopefully, bring me a couple of benefits; It will give me a deadline every week, thus (in theory) making me more likely to knuckle down and write, and it will (hopefully) expose more people to my work, and get my name out there a bit.
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06-12-2006, 09:11 AM James D. Macdonald vbmenu_register("postmenu_641418", true);
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Baen's free library experiment seems to be doing pretty well. Things to rememeber there include that the works are all profesional quality (Baen knows his audience very well), they're simultaneously available in hardcopy on bookstore shelves, and they're all located in one place to make 'em easy to find, not scattered piecemeal all over the web.
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06-12-2006, 10:31 AM Sc00t vbmenu_register("postmenu_641552", true);
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There are loads of websites that do this, give stories away for free; i think it's great. I run a website which is like... a never ending novel, it updates by adding a chapter at a time and is based around a hotel in the southern states of America.

http://hotel.e-wrestling.org

If you need a web designer, i can do something for you (free of charge, naturally!) just contact me via PM, AIM, MSN, email, whatever...

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06-12-2006, 03:21 PM MikeAngel vbmenu_register("postmenu_642097", true);
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06-12-2006, 06:06 PM PeeDee vbmenu_register("postmenu_642418", true);
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeAngel
"Write without pay until somebody offers pay. If nobody offers within three years, the candidate may look upon this circumstance with the most implicit confidence as the sign that sawing wood is what he is intended for."

- Mark Twain -


I've been writing since I was a little kid. That's a lot longer than three years. What are you saying to me!?

*sob*

I will now take to heavy drink.

The man who taught me to "eschew surplusage" (also Twain) now wants me to saw wood. Gawd.
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06-12-2006, 06:15 PM emeraldcite vbmenu_register("postmenu_642441", true);
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Quote:
"Write without pay until somebody offers pay. If nobody offers within three years, the candidate may look upon this circumstance with the most implicit confidence as the sign that sawing wood is what he is intended for."

- Mark Twain -

It took JA Konrath over ten years with no publications to land his six figure deal. And he worked his tail off to get another three book, six figure deal.

Guess he should have given up after three years. He could still be waiting tables, a much more lucrative position.

Mark Twain has many witty observations, but I think his ideas of publishing might be a bit antiquated.
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06-12-2006, 06:20 PM argenianpoet vbmenu_register("postmenu_642454", true);
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emeraldcite
Mark Twain has many witty observations, but I think his ideas of publishing might be a bit antiquated.


I would have to agree with you one hundred percent here. Mark Twain may have been a great writer in his day, but his advice does not fit well with a modern day writer.
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06-12-2006, 06:48 PM PeeDee vbmenu_register("postmenu_642513", true);
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Mark Twain was also a very cynical man, and it's entirely possible that the dry humor and sarcasm is getting lost somewhere over the years...
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06-13-2006, 12:45 AM MikeAngel vbmenu_register("postmenu_643114", true);
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeDee
Mark Twain was also a very cynical man, and it's entirely possible that the dry humor and sarcasm is getting lost somewhere over the years...


With the possible exception of everything he had to say about Jane Austen.
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06-13-2006, 10:46 PM PeeDee vbmenu_register("postmenu_645215", true);
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Ohhh, you know he just wanted some nookie there.

*shuddddder*
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