More grounding in the universe?

If it was me, I would guess that they mean that the setting has to play a bigger part in the story. It needs to be a character. It needs to make a big difference, cause problems, present solutions, set tone.

But that's just rejectomancy. It may mean nothing at all or that they found the world-building thin. I'd forget about it.

Grounding, to me, doesn't mean setting at all. Nor does it refer to plot. What "grounding" means is that the reader needs to get a sense of the RULES of the universe---generally through dialogue or actions of the characters.

Let's say, for example, you have a book set in Arthurian times. Knights kill dragons who menace damsels. It's just a fact of life. A "grounding" event would be two knights coming upon a dragon who's menacing an evil sorceress. It could go something like this:

"What say you, Lancelot? Should we save her from the dragon? After all, it is our job."

"But our job is to save damsels, which she clearly isn't. She's wearing a purple cloak, marking her as a sorceress. But 'tis a good question, Sir Gawain. What say you?" Lancelots shrugs. "My personal opinion is to rest the horses and watch. The world is lacking more dragons than sorceresses."

"It's a spotted dragon, and I've never seen one of those. Perchance they only prey on wizardly sorts?"

Through this brief conversation, the reader has learned:

1. Knights rescue damsels.
2. Sorceresses wear purple. The color is "assigned" to them.
3. Dragons are getting scarce.
4. Sorceresses aren't.
5. Spotted dragons are uncommon.
6. Lancelot's (possibly) got a mean streak.
7. Gawain's probably the "nobler" of the two.

The reader is becoming grounded in the universe.

Make sense?

Gaw!

If you want my advice, dump the freaks!
More grounding on the universe, that sucks!

Ok, raving aside; as for your spotting dragons, I surplant your sissy reality and substitue my own.

FLAMING DEATH

And please, the bad guys wear black, not purple, and I don't think 'Nobler' is a word. Try more noble.

Bzzzz! Nope, sorry--that's incorrect, but thanks for playing, ViatMortege.

Noble
Nobbled
Nobbling
Nobler

Those are the only forms.

ViatMortege said:

I don't think 'Nobler' is a word. Try more noble.

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You would be wrong. Just ask Hamlet.

grounding

Nangleator said:

I got a wonderful rejection today, from Baen Books. This doesn't belong in Rejection & Dejection, though, because it had good, specific comments that told me they actually read at least a fifth of my novel.

I just need some advice regarding their comment: "...needs a bit more grounding in the universe..."

Does that mean more detail in the beginning, and a slower plot? (UJ has pointed out that pacing is modified by adding or subtracting detail.)

More sensory immersion or more detail specific to my setting?

How would you read this?

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Setting would be the way I'd interpret it. The universe needs to be more real, more detailed. At leats, this is the way I've seen this phrased used most often in science fiction.

Innkeeper said:

I agree with Cathy C. Grounding in the universe refers to internal consistency within the universe you have created with your story.

1) Characters such as Cathy's knight have to be true to themselves.

2) A character traveling from the eastern edge of the kingdom to the far west shouldn't reach the western border by the following page unless magic has been used or unless it's a really SMALL kingdom. The concept of distance is generally a reality within any story.

3) A squire in training doesn't simply pick up a sword and defeat the legendary Black Knight.

4) The thief who has never shot a longbow in his life, can't pick up a bow and simply shoot the apple off of William Turner's head.

5) Inspite of the lyrics sung by Lancelot in the movie, "Camelot," a knight cannot swim a moat in a coat of heavy iron mail.

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2) Maybe if the next page starts a new scene/chapter/part, which begins days/weeks after the last section, and the travel was summarized? If nothing important important happens during the trip, why not?

5) Yes he can, if he is epic enough.

Hey, Beowulf had a swimming race across the sea that lasted a week, while killing sea monsters along the way...

My girl Rose once swam in full gear to the bottom of a lake whose surface was frozen over to save her unconscious 400 pound Finn (who was also in full armor), and dragged him right back out. They also swam from their wrecked ship to an island several miles away during a storm and managed to save most of their gear. Of course, Rose has also survived being run through the heart, gutted, shot in the head, shot in the throat, stomped by a 100 ton dragon, and fought on every time... she is no dainty lady.

Um, sorry about thread hijack, but as a writer of epic heroes, I had to respond. Swimming a moat in armor?! What, is that even a feat? Maybe for a bunch of wimps!

Seriously, though, it does depend on the flavour of the story. I mean in a superhero comic (or the fantasy novel equivalent), superhuman feats are to be expected.

Yes, but Beowulf was an epic hero, even for his time.

Birol said:

Yes, but Beowulf was an epic hero, even for his time.

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Exactly, if your MC is an epic hero some ridiculousness is to be expected- and my MCs tend to be epic heroes.

Epic, as in slaying a dragon while eating a cheese danish. Just got an idea for a series I am working on. Unfortunately not my main WIP right now.

And I just got a craving for a cheese danish.

Defining "Epic" by itself is a way of grounding. In my world, the epic things are feats of endurance, will, or cunning that might seem wondrous but possible in real world. There are also a few performance enhacing drugs that make epic a little more common.

MattW said:

There are also a few performance enhacing drugs that make epic a little more common.

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So you are writing about baseball?

But you do bring up something that makes me think. What people are capable of is alot more than what normally is thought of. Have you ever read about the testing and training for elite military units. What they do is push people to the point where willpower is the most important thing. Yes, fitness is important to get to that point, but once there it is the mind that is important. If you don't have the willpower you won't make it in say the Rangers or SEALs or earn the green hat.

Random rejection generator

Nangleator said:

I got a wonderful rejection today, from Baen Books. This doesn't belong in Rejection & Dejection, though, because it had good, specific comments that told me they actually read at least a fifth of my novel.

I just need some advice regarding their comment: "...needs a bit more grounding in the universe..."

Does that mean more detail in the beginning, and a slower plot? (UJ has pointed out that pacing is modified by adding or subtracting detail.)

More sensory immersion or more detail specific to my setting?

How would you read this?

Click to expand...

I think some rejection prose is more or less random. I used to get contradictory assessments on the same story usually along the "more character/less character" line...I suspect the same could happen along the "more/less universe" line. They probably skipped something in their eagerness to find something they did not like.

You have to wonder about the trigger for a "please, less of your characters" rejection. I suspect that they must have fixated on one brief orgiastic binge while another reader/rejector apparently missed that and got stuck on some of the framing story elements. Okay, there were a lot of framing stories. I used to think they were clever. Okay, I still do, but evidently they cause problems for some readers.

I had to stop writing along those rejected lines for a while because all I could think of was narrating the rejector's lack of attention to what they were reading. As in "Look at yourself, you are now reading the second story this guy has summitted. Try not to confuse it with the first one...oops you're skipping this part, you've seen it before (not really but hey...)...wait, let's just pretend you're reading all the parts that you aren
't skipping...hey you missed the part that has some characters...okay I'll make it simple: THIS STORY HAS NO INTERESTING CHARACTERS THAT YOU DID NOT SKIP....etc."

May I ask how long they had your ms before they replied?