Fantasies that aren't epic?

Paul J. Andrew · May 21, 2006

Does anyone know of a good example of a fantasy that doesn't necessarily involve defending an entire world against the forces of darkness and black jellybeans? I ask because my current WIP is such a tale. It involves plenty of good and evil, just not on the typical fantasy scale. In my WIP I doubt very much that the action will ever leave the city I began the story in. All the fantasy I've read has been much larger than that and I'm interested in finding out whats been done on a smaller scale. Any recommendations?

veinglory · May 21, 2006

Just about everything on my shelf. I don't like 'road' fantasies.

Paul J. Andrew · May 21, 2006

Now that's what I call an answer! Tell me, is there a section at Barnes and Noble labeled "Veinglory's Shelf"?

veinglory · May 21, 2006

I am getting ready to hit the airport but off the top of my head try Randall Garrett, Jim Butcher, for more classic fantasy there is a book called 'Point of hopes' (I have a bad memory for author names). I can recommend more when i have some time if you like.

Paul J. Andrew · May 21, 2006

Thanks, I really appreciate it! I'll look into them. Have a good trip.

badducky · May 21, 2006

If you don't mind dabbling in children's literature, all of Lloyd Alexander's cat books. His time traveling cat story is an od favorite of mine.

Alexander is still one of my favorite authors, and I'm an "intelligent adult". Most of the time, I can fake it, anyway.

"The Island of the Day Before" by Umberto Eco and "Mason & Dixon" by Thomas Pynchon are also two fantastic fantasy books that don't deal with magic and the fantastic quite the same way as the genre does.

Paul J. Andrew · May 21, 2006

I'm not opposed to magic, it's definitely in my story. It's just that my shelf is full of Tolkien, Jordan, Goodkind, and Martin. I've got a few other fantasies hanging around my lair but they all seem to be the 'world spanning' variety. My WIP is fairly traditional fantasy stuff, but I've shrunk the conflict down to a more personal level that takes place in a specific city. There are no evil overlords or plucky adventurers. It's actually kind of a fantasy cop story now that I think about it. NYPD Blue with magic.... only not. Yuck.

waylander · May 21, 2006

The novel I'm shopping around is also a 'non-epic' fantasy adventure. It is getting a decent level of interest, and yes, I've had a number of rejections because the scale is not epic enough. Had another one last week.

Popeyesays · May 21, 2006

Paul J. Andrew said:
Does anyone know of a good example of a fantasy that doesn't necessarily involve defending an entire world against the forces of darkness and black jellybeans? I ask because my current WIP is such a tale. It involves plenty of good and evil, just not on the typical fantasy scale. In my WIP I doubt very much that the action will ever leave the city I began the story in. All the fantasy I've read has been much larger than that and I'm interested in finding out whats been done on a smaller scale. Any recommendations?

I would bring to mind the old series by Fritz Leiber - his "Fafrhed and the Grey Mouser" series of short novels, short stories, novellas and all. The only thing the duo was ever out to save was their own necks, they had feuds and partings, reunions and all. The Mouser was prone to use magic in an amateurish manner and get himself in all sorts of trouble.

Regards,
Scott

Sharon Mock · May 21, 2006

Check out pretty much anything by Steven Brust. If you need somewhere to start, start here.

I cannot offhand remember the last fantasy I read in which the entire world was at stake. Possibly Clive Barker's Imajica. There's a lot of non-epic fantasy out there, it just has a much lower profile.

Simon Woodhouse · May 21, 2006

I haven't read very much Fantasy, as I'm not really a fan of the 'chosen-one' scenario that seems to dominate most books. But last year someone bought me the first two volumes in the Black Magician Trilogy, by Trudi Canavan. I think this series might be the sort of thing you're looking for. There are no big battles, no squared-jawed heroes, and no fighting for the freedom of the whole kingdom. The story is a bit Harry Potter-esque, but grittier and not so daft. It nearly all takes place in one city, which gives it an intimate feel. And though the main character is a bit on the weedy side, I still enjoyed the first book enough to want to read the second one.

Shweta · May 21, 2006

k, so, "just about anything on my shelf" is not a good enough answer, I take it

I'd try these, recommended partly cause the books are good, and partly because in general the author steers clear of the Jordan/Goodkind etc rut. So consider the authors generally recommended, beyond just the one book.
Many of them are Young Adult (and marked YA); that's because I adore intelligent YA, and think it's appropriate.

Lloyd Alexander: Westmark trilogy (YA) (I know Alexander's already come up, but this has conflict that mostly takes place in one city, and its themes are different from those of epic fantasy.)
Peter Beagle: Tamsin
Steve Brust: already mentioned, but try The Sun, the Moon, and the Stars
Emma Bull: War for the Oaks
Pamela Dean: Juniper, Gentian, and Rosemary
Charles de Lint: The Wild Wood.
Diane Duane: Stealing the Elf King's Roses: this ends up being kinda epic but it's a fantasy police procedural.
Michael Ende: Momo (YA)
Neil Gaiman: Coraline (YA)
James Hetley: The Summer Country
Diana Wynne Jones: Fire and Hemlock
Ellen Kushner: Swordspoint
R.A. Macavoy: Tea with the Black Dragon
Margaret Mahy: The Changeover (YA)
Patricia McKillip: In the Forests of Serre (but seriously, everything she's written except the Riddlemaster trilogy is something other than epic)
Robin McKinley: Sunshine
Tamora Pierce: Trickster's Choice/Trickster's Queen (YA) (arguably a sequel to the Alanna books, which are kind of epic)
Tim Powers: The Anubis Gates
Delia Sherman: Through a Brazen Mirror
Will Shetterly: Elsewhere/Nevernever (YA)
Caroline Stevermer: College of Magics
Matt Ruff: Fool on the Hill
Megan Whalen Turner: The Thief (YA)
Jo Walton: Tooth and Claw
Terri Windling: The Wood Wife
Patricia Wrede: Mairelon the Magician (YA)

In general, anything edited by Terri Windling is a good bet. And if you want to laugh at epic fantasy for a bit, DW Jones' The Dark Lord of Derkholm is a wonderful book.

How's that for starters?

Shweta · May 21, 2006

Whups.

And Lord Dunsany, The Charwoman's Shadow

Paul J. Andrew · May 22, 2006

Thanks for the responses guys! I appreciate it mucho.

silentpoet · Jul 2, 2006

Also look at the Heralds of Valdemar by what's-her-name. Well anyway that whole series and world has alot that are just basic fighting bad guys type thing. Take a Thief is the one that came to mind when I read your question. Also, A Bad Spell in Yurt by C Dale Brittain(I can remember the more obscure name) is about a wizard who is just settling into his first job and has to save a king. It is not a HUGE novel. Alot of lighter fantasy is not big-save-the-world-or-else stuff.

I think alot of works are over dramatic Do you think part of that is because of how books are sold? I mean you have to have a good hook to land an agent or book deal.

Vomaxx · Jul 2, 2006

The Deed of Paksenarrion, by Elizabeth Moon

Inkdaub · Jul 3, 2006

Check out Mervyn Peake.

Selcaby · Jul 6, 2006

Most of Charles de Lint would suit you, I think.

And my book, when it's finished.

Shadow_Ferret · Jul 6, 2006

How current are we looking? Robert E. Howard's stuff usually just centered around Conan, or Kull, or whichever character. They weren't necessarily "saving the world" only their own skin.

Michael Moorcock's Elric. Again mostly his adventures of being stuck with this sword that liked to kill all his friends and family. Saving the world might have been an unintentional byproduct of his adventures.

Someone else mentioned Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser.

And what kind of fantasy? Modern alternate reality like Laurell K. Hamilton's Anita Blake, Vampire Hunter usually just centers around her version of St. Louis.

And there are more in the super/preternatural field like Kim Harrison, Kelley Armstrong, and Charlaine Harris.

Gillhoughly · Jul 7, 2006

From Baen Books--High adventure, low brow fantasy-comedy: The Adventures of Myhr.

No black jellybeans, but the forces of darkness, beer, and pizza were involved.

AceTachyon · Jul 13, 2006

Robert Asprin's Myth series.

Rick Cook's Wiz Biz series.

silentpoet · Jul 14, 2006

AceTachyon said:
Robert Asprin's Myth series.

Beat me to it. Also Terry Brooks, Landover series is not "epic". Though it is very good.

AceTachyon · Jul 14, 2006

silentpoet said:
Beat me to it. Also Terry Brooks, Landover series is not "epic". Though it is very good.

Was there more after Witches Brew? That was the last one I read of that series.

His later stuff was the Knight of the Word books and then back to Shannara. Haven't read those. But Landover was kinda fun.

Snitchcat · Jul 15, 2006

You might check out Terry Pratchett -- IIRC, quite a few books in the Discworld series aren't on the 'save the world' scale.

And if you don't mind YA, try, "Howl's Moving Castle", Diana Wynne Jones. Last I read that, I don't remember it being an epic fantasy.

Ordinary_Guy · Jul 18, 2006

Paul J. Andrew said:
Does anyone know of a good example of a fantasy that doesn't necessarily involve defending an entire world against the forces of darkness and black jellybeans?

I couldn't think of one off the top of my head... except maybe for most of the Harry Potter books. All of the battles and major plot points have been on a much more personal level (though as the series grew, the battles pointed at bigger and bigger consequences).

Paul J. Andrew said:
I ask because my current WIP is such a tale. It involves plenty of good and evil, just not on the typical fantasy scale. In my WIP I doubt very much that the action will ever leave the city I began the story in. All the fantasy I've read has been much larger than that and I'm interested in finding out whats been done on a smaller scale. Any recommendations?

I think you're fine.

A lot of "epic fantasy" is epic because saving the whole world is usually assumed to be a noble undertaking and worthy of a reader's sympathy (if not interest). Of course, that rule holds across plenty of genres, from SF to thriller (how many times has James Bond had to save the world?).

A lot of epic fantasy also falls flat – at least with the mainstream crowd – because a lot of epic fantasy writers cobble together narrative that relies on the reader buying in to this archetype. As long as you make the characters real (even if the magic isn't), the audience will be on the edge of their seats (no world-wide peril required).

Fantasies that aren't epic?

Paul J. Andrew

volitare nequeo

Paul J. Andrew

volitare nequeo

Paul J. Andrew

No Time For Chitchat, Kemosabe.

Paul J. Andrew

Who's going for a beer?

Now departed. Rest in peace, Scott, from all of us

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Paul J. Andrew

practical experience, FTW

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