250k novel

Starbrazer · May 13, 2006

I have written a 250k fantasy novel. It is split up in three different books or sections for the three different days my protagonist character is stuck in a foreign world. The first book is 104,000 words, the second is 72,000 words, and the third is 71,000 words long. Is it possible that I can sell this 250k novel as three different books (like a continuing story or a trilogy)? I am an unknown author and 250k is way too long for a first time novel I know, but I could not help the length--I needed it for the story's sake. Has anyone done this and what is your advice about how to propose this idea in a query letter. Currently, I am writing three different synopsis for it.
I have sent out one query letter so far, but I led them to believe that I am trying to sell a 250k novel as is and I think that I will be rejected. Is it okay for me to send this same agent (who has rejected me) a different proposal; one that encompasses the idea stated above: that I have written a trilogy and my 250k novel is actually three novels? I don't know what to do. I have full confidence in the story; its plot, the ongoing conflict, and its high-paced action, and characters that you grow to love, but anyway I am rambling...any thoughts?

argenianpoet

Sassenach · May 13, 2006

argenianpoet said:
I am an unknown author and 250k is way too long for a first time novel I know, but I could not help the length--I needed it for the story's sake.

How many times do you think agents have heard that?

From Miss Snark, just the other day:

Here are some of the things you said in your query letter that made me pretty sure I didn't have to take you seriously:

1a. 190,000 word thriller
1b. 220,000 word historical fiction

Gillhoughly · May 13, 2006

argenianpoet said:
I have written a 250k fantasy novel. It is split up in three different books or sections 104,000 words, the second is 72,000 words, and the third is 71,000 words. Is it possible that I can sell this 250k novel as three different books

You have a better chance at selling a trilogy than a single 250K volume. (Leave the megabooks to Robert Jordan!) I would recommend you plump up the shorter works so they are similar in length to the first one. Most publishers are looking for a ballpark 100K word count.

argenianpoet said:
I have written a trilogy and my 250k novel is actually three novels

That information should have been in your original proposal. Make clear to the agent that it is a trilogy and the length of each book. Do a one page synopsis for each and an outline for each.

You may want to query another agent on your list, and only go back to the initial one after making the rounds. Should you go back, make sure to mention "I contacted you before on this proposal, but I've made some changes since then."

If possible look up the websites of writers whose work is similar to your own, see if you can find out who their agents are. Most writers don't mind sharing that info in response to a brief, polite e-mail. Just don't tell them your plot or anything as they've got their own fish to fry.

Should you get a name, then look up that agent and see what their submission guidelines are. Each will be different. Some prefer snail-mail only, others accept e-submissions, etc.

Just make sure you have all your ducks in a row on your query letter, proposal, synopsis, outline. You want to be as prepared and professional as possible!

Good luck!

Albedo of Zero · May 13, 2006

From what I've read on agent, publisher, and writing sites...if the first part (104,000 words) can stand alone then push only that part for publishing and let the agents or publishers know you have more waiting in the wings.

If you were rejected once by someone...the answer from them is still no. Don't submit or query again; they will remember your name. There are plenty of others to query.

Starbrazer · May 13, 2006

Is there such a thing as a two book deal? Everyone always talks about trilogy's, but what about a two book set. If I did it that way my first book would be approximately 106,437 words long, and the second half would be 143,555 words long. What do you think guys? Two sounds better than three to me, but I am no expert. Why is this stuff so complex?

DeadlyAccurate · May 13, 2006

argenianpoet said:
Why is this stuff so complex?

'Cause if it wasn't, everyone'd do it.

Bartholomew · May 13, 2006

I don't mean to sound rude, but the likelyhood is that you could edit it down into one 80,000 word text, and it would be far more readable.

Of course, I say this without actually reading the text, so I could be wrong.

argenianpoet said:
I have written a 250k fantasy novel. It is split up in three different books or sections for the three different days my protagonist character is stuck in a foreign world. The first book is 104,000 words, the second is 72,000 words, and the third is 71,000 words long. Is it possible that I can sell this 250k novel as three different books (like a continuing story or a trilogy)? I am an unknown author and 250k is way too long for a first time novel I know, but I could not help the length--I needed it for the story's sake. Has anyone done this and what is your advice about how to propose this idea in a query letter. Currently, I am writing three different synopsis for it.
I have sent out one query letter so far, but I led them to believe that I am trying to sell a 250k novel as is and I think that I will be rejected. Is it okay for me to send this same agent (who has rejected me) a different proposal; one that encompasses the idea stated above: that I have written a trilogy and my 250k novel is actually three novels? I don't know what to do. I have full confidence in the story; its plot, the ongoing conflict, and its high-paced action, and characters that you grow to love, but anyway I am rambling...any thoughts?

argenianpoet

jules · May 14, 2006

A question for you -- is there a major subplot that reaches a conclusion in a climactic scene near the end of the first part? If not, I'd say you'd risk leaving readers annoyed at the end of the book. We expect a book to have that kind of structure, and when it doesn't it can be problematic.

And while I'm skeptical about the possibility of editing 250k down to a saleable size, I suspect you could edit your first part down to about 70-80k, giving you three nice slim & saleable volumes, if you prefer to go that way.

140k sounds rather long to me, although you might get away with it for a second volume, which tend to be larger than the first.

gp101 · May 15, 2006

argenianpoet said:
The first book is 104,000 words, the second is 72,000 words, and the third is 71,000 words long.
argenianpoet

So 104,000 words are dedicated to a protagonist's single day? That actually sounds intriguing, especially if the story has a built-in clock, ie the character has 24 hours (sound familiar?) to resolve his problem or he dies, or the planet blows up, et al. I just can't conceive how you would use 104,000 words for a protagonist's single day of adventure. I tip my hat.

Starbrazer · May 15, 2006

jules said:
A question for you -- is there a major subplot that reaches a conclusion in a climactic scene near the end of the first part? If not, I'd say you'd risk leaving readers annoyed at the end of the book. We expect a book to have that kind of structure, and when it doesn't it can be problematic.

My character is lost in a strange world and everyone is trying to kill him. From page one it is 'action' all the way through. At the end of the first book my character discovers the army that controls the world, and as he is spotted by a survelience camera a mysterious force guides him to a hiding spot beneath an ancient tree. There, he hides and falls into a deep sleep... I don't think that would be considered a major subplot that reaches a conclusion, but I don't know: it is the end of the first day on the planet, and he does catch a glimpse the army's new weapon before he hides: a mechanical flying robot of pure destruction...

scarletpeaches · May 15, 2006

Personally I would very much enjoy reading a 250k novel...but I'm not a publisher.

Nangleator · May 15, 2006

argenianpoet said:
jules said:

At the end of the first book my character discovers the army that controls the world, and as he is spotted by a survelience camera a mysterious force guides him to a hiding spot beneath an ancient tree. There, he hides and falls into a deep sleep... I don't think that would be considered a major subplot that reaches a conclusion, but I don't know: it is the end of the first day on the planet, and he does catch a glimpse the army's new weapon before he hides: a mechanical flying robot of pure destruction...

Click to expand...

Sounds like more of a cliffhanger than a climax.

Danger, Will Robinson.

In my experience, trilogies run like this: First book introduces world and characters and problem very quickly. MC works hard to solve problem. Problem is solved (seemingly) at the end, and the first novel could easily stand alone.

Second novel starts with realization that the situtation is, in fact, much worse than you originally thought. The climax of the second novel is more about surviving than overcoming.

Third novel has the MC completing his/her transformation/training/understanding and spending the rest of the book kicking butt.

Just my .02.

janetbellinger · May 15, 2006

I'd prefer the 250 K novel too. I'm not really a trilogy person.

jules · May 16, 2006

I'm with nangleator. This doesn't sound like it would work if you split it.

Maybe an experienced editor could make it work like that. In that case, you might find agents/publishers are willing to take it on despite its size because they can see how they would work with it.

Try to sell it as 250k. It does happen, it's just rare and getting rarer. Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrel is about 300k. Kate Mosse's Labyrinth is about 250k. Just a couple of big first novels from the last few years.

aruna · May 16, 2006

jules said:
Try to sell it as 250k. It does happen, it's just rare and getting rarer. Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrel is about 300k. Kate Mosse's Labyrinth is about 250k. Just a couple of big first novels from the last few years.

A Suitable Boy (1500 pages) was also a first novel.

LightShadow · May 16, 2006

250,000 words is not very cost prohibitive for the publisher. That's a lot of money to put out on someone they are taking a chance on. Use the first book, 70,000 or so is probably about right, and make sure it's a stand alone. Allow the publisher to make the decision on whether or not it should be a series. In their eyes they are the expert and you are a novice, so you should follow their lead, not vice versa.

Starbrazer · May 16, 2006

jules said:
Try to sell it as 250k. It does happen, it's just rare and getting rarer. Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrel is about 300k. Kate Mosse's Labyrinth is about 250k. Just a couple of big first novels from the last few years.

So, it does happen and it's not absolutely impossible. It would be extremely hard for me to cut out 150,000 words, wouldn't you think. I mean, it would no longer be the same novel (plus all of the plot revisions, etc.). The thought of such a task is a very bad nightmare...

Starbrazer · May 16, 2006

Nangleator said:
In my experience, trilogies run like this: First book introduces world and characters and problem very quickly. MC works hard to solve problem. Problem is solved (seemingly) at the end, and the first novel could easily stand alone.

Second novel starts with realization that the situtation is, in fact, much worse than you originally thought. The climax of the second novel is more about surviving than overcoming.

Third novel has the MC completing his/her transformation/training/understanding and spending the rest of the book kicking butt.

Just my .02.

I think you are right Nangleator. I would much rather read a long novel than a short one, and most of the ones that I read are long. I think that 80,000 and even just a 100,000 words is not enough space to tell a good story; unless it's a good short story. My first novel (given I cut it in half) would leave people hanging, majorly, and that would probably make readers mad more than anything. I have not recieved a rejection yet, of course I only submitted to one agent so far. I plan to generate more queries here in the coming weeks. I think this is a learning experience more than anything.

My new book is already 40,000 words and I just got done introducing everyone. I think that there will be some major revision to do there also; cutting out secondary characters and focusing more on the important ones. Maybe I can get this one right, who knows, but I tell you, I have the large tendacy to overwrite. I see stories in a cinematic fashion and I see it always from more than one point of view. 'Needful Things' by Stephen King is my favorite novel of all time, and look how many characters were in that book! Novels are supposed to be BIG...

aruna · May 16, 2006

argenianpoet said:
Novels are supposed to be BIG...

Couldn't agree with you more. The bigger the better. A pity publishers don't see it that way.

scarletpeaches · May 16, 2006

Told ya, size matters. Aruna says so.

aruna · May 16, 2006

scarletpeaches said:
Told ya, size matters. Aruna says so.

At last somebody acknowledges my great wisdom!

Sharon Mock · May 17, 2006

I love big fat books too. Most of my favorites are 150,000 words or more -- often much more. Sadly, economics and fashion have combined to swing the pendulum back toward the short side.

What I've been told is that the further you get past a certain threshold, the better your book needs to be to justify its length. For most fantasy publishers, that threshold these days is around 110,000 to 120,000 words. But if your book's good enough, you'll sell it even at 250,000 words.

If you've already queried an agent and are waiting for a reply, I'd hold off on any rash decisions until you hear back (or give up on hearing back). But yes, you should probably divide it into a trilogy.

James D. Macdonald · May 17, 2006

Put it in a box.

Write a 80K novel. Sell it.
Write a 100K novel. Sell it too.
Then pull out your 250K novel.

250k novel

Starbrazer

Sassenach

5 W's & an H

Gillhoughly

Grumpy writer and editor

Albedo of Zero

That didn't hurt

Starbrazer

DeadlyAccurate

Absolutely Fazed

Bartholomew

Comic guy

jules

Bored fanatic

gp101

Starbrazer

scarletpeaches

Nangleator

Rep Point Whore

janetbellinger

jules

Bored fanatic

aruna

On a wing and a prayer

LightShadow

defender of the blahs!

Starbrazer

Starbrazer

aruna

On a wing and a prayer

scarletpeaches

aruna

On a wing and a prayer

Sharon Mock

Wing nut

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle