Using famous people as characters in a novel

Pearlie · May 4, 2006

I just posted a response to someone (another thread) who asked whether it was okay to use actual places in fiction. This got me thinking about my own concern over using famous people who appear as secondary characters in my own novel.

I have the protagonists having love and sexual affairs as well as friendships with many artists that were around in the 1960s. (Janis Joplin, Hendrix, Keith Moon, etc) The Da Vinci Code uses famous works of arts and refers to various classic artists, but they are not really used as characters. Anyone out there know if using the famous in fictitious setting breaks any legalities?

aruna · May 4, 2006

Pearlie said:
I just posted a response to someone (another thread) who asked whether it was okay to use actual places in fiction. This got me thinking about my own concern over using famous people who appear as secondary characters in my own novel.

I have the protagonists having love and sexual affairs as well as friendships with many artists that were around in the 1960s. (Janis Joplin, Hendrix, Keith Moon, etc) The Da Vinci Code uses famous works of arts and refers to various classic artists, but they are not really used as characters. Anyone out there know if using the famous in fictitious setting breaks any legalities?

I notice that these three are dead. You can say what you like about them, as far as I know. Be careful with the living, though. I don't know about US law but you could get a libel suit on your hands.

icerose · May 4, 2006

aruna said:
I notice that these three are dead. You can say what you like about them, as far as I know. Be careful with the living, though. I don't know about US law but you could get a libel suit on your hands.

Even with the dead you have to be careful. If you are smearing their reputation with out any evidence, the family can and often will come after you.

Why not make up your own famous characters?

Julie Worth · May 4, 2006

I like to use dead Presidents and well-know mobsters. They've been pre-smeared.

Pearlie · May 4, 2006

icerose said:
Even with the dead you have to be careful. If you are smearing their reputation with out any evidence, the family can and often will come after you.

Why not make up your own famous characters?

I did consider making up famous characters to parallel actual living ones, however those who have read the manuscript find the intertwining works well. Thanks for the advice, because the sixties were a libelously slippery surface with all the free love and drugs that went on.

The two main protagonists are made up as are a multitude of satellite characters. They are perhaps more charistmatic than some of the famous artist folk I have them interacting with. The story does not smear anyone. This is intended as a historical fiction novel. Everyone knows how Jimi, Janis and Keith Moon died. How their lives and deaths affected main characters is the focus. If anything, the influential impact these artists had on a generation is highlighted. Emulation is the purpose. Also, I wanted to capture the sixties music and countercultural youth mindset because it was unique. Hopefully boomers will find it nostalgic and entertaining if it ever gets published.

Julie Worth · May 4, 2006

Just don't put any lyrics in it.

Jamesaritchie · May 4, 2006

icerose said:
Even with the dead you have to be careful. If you are smearing their reputation with out any evidence, the family can and often will come after you.

Why not make up your own famous characters?

The family might come after you, but they won't get anywhere. You can't libel, or slander, the dead. When you die, you lose all rights, family or not. There are an awful lot of novels out there that use the dead in all sorts of roles, many of them highly unflattering.

bsolah · May 4, 2006

Last month, I read Straight into Darkness by Faye Kellerman. It was a murder mystery set in 1920s Germany. In it, he used all fictional characters. The bureaucrats are all made up except for Hitler. The main character, actually comes face to face with him. This struck me as a bold move by the writer.

I don't think I'd have the guts to use real people, but maybe it's a matter of authority. Kellerman is a well known author, so maybe she feels she has some standing in order to use these people. Not that this matters, but maybe it's a psychological thing within the writer.

icerose · May 4, 2006

Jamesaritchie said:
The family might come after you, but they won't get anywhere. You can't libel, or slander, the dead. When you die, you lose all rights, family or not. There are an awful lot of novels out there that use the dead in all sorts of roles, many of them highly unflattering.

Really, I had no idea James. I have heard of suits from families over their dead family members who were unjustly (and sometimes even justly) persecuted in the books. I never did follow long enough to hear the outcome.

That's good to know.

There is one novel I have been dying to write but I don't think I could pull it off, mostly due to the fact I know nothing about the catholic faith.

It's about the pope that died within a few days of being made pope, or corinated or whatever they call it. He died mysteriously inside the vatican, the cardinals refused to allow an autopsy, and cremated his remains. He had been reported to be in good health just a few days earlier and was proposing some big changes in the catholic church. Such as ending the celebacy of priests, women's roles, to name a few.

If anything wreaks of conspiracy theory this does! But I have no idea what I am doing and feel way out of my league. Also I feel all of my catholic friends would hate me if I wrote it.

Okay, I'm a spineless jelly fish!

Sage · May 4, 2006

icerose said:
There is one novel I have been dying to write but I don't think I could pull it off, mostly due to the fact I know nothing about the catholic faith.

It's about the pope that died within a few days of being made pope, or corinated or whatever they call it. He died mysteriously inside the vatican, the cardinals refused to allow an autopsy, and cremated his remains. He had been reported to be in good health just a few days earlier and was proposing some big changes in the catholic church. Such as ending the celebacy of priests, women's roles, to name a few.

If anything wreaks of conspiracy theory this does! But I have no idea what I am doing and feel way out of my league. Also I feel all of my catholic friends would hate me if I wrote it.

Use your Catholic friends to teach you what you need to know about the Catholic faith. Maybe mention your idea to them casually to see how they'd feel about it.

Not all Catholics hate Dan Brown, after all

icerose · May 4, 2006

Sage said:
Use your Catholic friends to teach you what you need to know about the Catholic faith. Maybe mention your idea to them casually to see how they'd feel about it.

Not all Catholics hate Dan Brown, after all

Actually all of my Catholic friends (except a priest, big surprise) loved it. But the priest was the only one who knows about the inner workings of the vatican and he protested saying it was all God's will that this pope died, and that these changes were not his will, so he took the pope from off the earth, and used the Cardinal's to give proper homage to the pope.

I'm thinking, yeah right!

Diana Hignutt · May 5, 2006

icerose said:
There is one novel I have been dying to write but I don't think I could pull it off, mostly due to the fact I know nothing about the catholic faith.

It's about the pope that died within a few days of being made pope, or corinated or whatever they call it. He died mysteriously inside the vatican, the cardinals refused to allow an autopsy, and cremated his remains. He had been reported to be in good health just a few days earlier and was proposing some big changes in the catholic church. Such as ending the celebacy of priests, women's roles, to name a few.

If anything wreaks of conspiracy theory this does! But I have no idea what I am doing and feel way out of my league. Also I feel all of my catholic friends would hate me if I wrote it.

Okay, I'm a spineless jelly fish!

Go for it. I'm writing a novel with Thomas Jefferson as a major character. I had a layman's knowledge of Jefferson when I came up with the idea. So I decided to do the research. I just got through six months of researching the daylights out of him, right up to visiting Monticello last weekend. I'm now, functionally, an expert on all things Jefferson, and have been writing like crazy.

Just do your research. Don't be afraid of it. You can become an expert on anything you set your mind to.

icerose · May 5, 2006

Thanks Diana,

I just get very nervous when dealing with real events. This happened only like 40 years ago, so those involved are probably still alive. Scary stuff. I will see what I can dig up though, see if there is enough there for a story.

Also would it be fiction or non-fiction? I'm guessing fiction since it would be based on actual events but it would be guestimating what happened on that night.

Or I should say theorizing.

Sara

Celia Cyanide · May 15, 2006

Jamesaritchie said:
The family might come after you, but they won't get anywhere. You can't libel, or slander, the dead. When you die, you lose all rights, family or not. There are an awful lot of novels out there that use the dead in all sorts of roles, many of them highly unflattering.

Okay, I have another question about this. What if you are using a dead celebrity, but make reference to his spouse, who is alive? Do you chance the name for the living, but not the dead? Or does using the real name of the dead make it too connected to the living spouse?

I know Gus Van Zant wrote Last Days about Kurdt Cobain, but he changed the name to "Blake," instead of Kurdt. But he also used characters based on Dave Grohl and Krist Novoselic. Was it necessary to change the name to Blake?

Does anybody know? I'm not just asking hypothetically. I really need to know.

bsolah · May 15, 2006

Celia Cyanide said:
I know Gus Van Zant wrote Last Days about Kurdt Cobain, but he changed the name to "Blake," instead of Kurdt. But he also used characters based on Dave Grohl and Krist Novoselic. Was it necessary to change the name to Blake?

I wouldn't use the Kurt Cobain example as like any other. We all know Courtney Love is a psycho going broke and likes to charge people an arm and a leg for even saying the guys name.

I'm really not sure what the legal details are in normal circumstances.

Celia Cyanide · May 15, 2006

bsolah said:
I wouldn't use the Kurt Cobain example as like any other. We all know Courtney Love is a psycho going broke and likes to charge people an arm and a leg for even saying the guys name.

I'm really not sure what the legal details are in normal circumstances.

I was going to avoid saying this but...Kurdt Cobain is the person I intend to use.

bsolah · May 15, 2006

Celia Cyanide said:
I was going to avoid saying this but...Kurdt Cobain is the person I intend to use.

Yeah, I'd be real careful. I can't remember the details, but I remember Courtney Love was suing someone or another for using his name, or something.

Celia Cyanide · May 15, 2006

So what should I do? Should I change everyone's name, then?

ETA: Also, if I sent this off to an agent, would they read it as a bad omen? Like, "oh, gonna have problems with this," and reject it? Or could they easily deal with it?

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