What if you can't write the way you want too?

Vaxil · Apr 30, 2006

And yet another question from me,

What if when you write, and read what you've written, and from the readers point of view, you don't 'see' it the way you do when you think about it. Like, when we read we see descriptions and we see a view in our heads, what if what we write doesn't make us see it the way we want our readers to see it?
That is by far the biggest struggle I have with writing. I think up something, excitedly sit down to write it, and then when I'm finished I read over it, and I don't see it as I did when I was thinking about it. It becomes extreamly displacing and disparing when this happens, and is by far the biggest turn off. No matter how many ways I write something, sometimes I just can't write it the way I see it in my head. has anyone ever had problems with this? Is it just something we learn to accept, or is it something that needs to be fixed?

Thank you.

WeWantTheFunk · Apr 30, 2006

The best thing about art, and it's major flaw at the same time, is that the audience interprets it they way they interpret it. Everyone sees or hears things differently, and often different than the creator intended. But, if you make people feel something with you're art, then you have accomplished your goal. The most important thing is for you to be happy, before you start worrying about the audience. If you can't put it down the way you see it in your head and recreate that for yourself, then you keep working at it until you make yourself happy. Since most artists are artists because they think that other art doesn't meet their needs, if you're happy, then somebody else will be happy too.

Wow, that turned out to be a bunch of psuedo-intellectual BS

Jamesaritchie · Apr 30, 2006

Vaxil said:
And yet another question from me,

What if when you write, and read what you've written, and from the readers point of view, you don't 'see' it the way you do when you think about it. Like, when we read we see descriptions and we see a view in our heads, what if what we write doesn't make us see it the way we want our readers to see it?
That is by far the biggest struggle I have with writing. I think up something, excitedly sit down to write it, and then when I'm finished I read over it, and I don't see it as I did when I was thinking about it. It becomes extreamly displacing and disparing when this happens, and is by far the biggest turn off. No matter how many ways I write something, sometimes I just can't write it the way I see it in my head. has anyone ever had problems with this? Is it just something we learn to accept, or is it something that needs to be fixed?

Thank you.

Then you're like just about every other writer I've ever known. I can't begin to count the number of times I've heard this complaint, or even teh number of times I've made it. In the beginning, I don't think anything goes down on paper just the way you see it in your head. It gets a bit "easier" to translate what's in your head to an equal vision on paper as you gain experience, and I doubt the process ever gets perfect for anyone.

I think all you can do is your best, and trust that it's enough. And writing is like pretty much anything else in that a writer improves with practice. You have to learn how to write well.

But I'm not sure it ever gets easy to put down on paper what you see playing in your head.

reph · Apr 30, 2006

Even if you get really good at describing your mental pictures, readers won't see the same ones you do. They don't have to. They'll see something that works for them.

aruna · Apr 30, 2006

What everybody said. I'm never satisfied with what I've written because words just aren't adequate to describe the living pictures inside me, or the feelings I had while writing. I began to realise that the really, the words themselves aren't important - it's the pictures and emotions they evoke inside the reader that counts, and you have no control over that at all. You can just write the best you can, put all you havev into it, and trust your reader. For some reason, it works!

scarlet · May 1, 2006

Hi Vaxil,

Although, a lot of people tend to rely on their 'visual' sense to take in and give out information, others 'communicate' with their sense of hearing, or feeling/touch and even their sense of taste or smell. If you have descriptions that suit all the ways people prefer to communicate you will be including every reader. So to me being a visual person, I would say 'the sun is like a yellow balloon high up in the sky'. A feeling or 'kinaesthetic' person would describe how the sun feels on their skin, 'like soothing, warm fingers massaging my cold heart'. Someone else may get a sense of how tar smells when the sun melts it etc. Hope you get the 'picture'?

Julie Worth · May 1, 2006

Vaxil said:
That is by far the biggest struggle I have with writing. I think up something, excitedly sit down to write it, and then when I'm finished I read over it, and I don't see it as I did when I was thinking about it.

Words are chunky things. They’re no good for photorealism, but perfect for mosaics. Once you understand that, the problem disappears.

ChunkyC · May 1, 2006

Julie Worth said:
Words are chunky things.

That explains so much.

I too get flustered when trying to put what's in my head on paper. That's probably one of the reasons books take much longer to write than to read. Good suggestion above about evoking all the senses, something I tend to forget to do, especially in first drafts. For example, I happen to have a rather rudimentary olfactory system and rarely put the sensation of smell into my writing in the first drafts. But when I revise and make the effort to add the sense of odour (and touch, and taste, etc.), often what was difficult to express previously, comes alive on the page.

Sunny7L · May 1, 2006

I think you'd be surprised by how little it takes to impress someone. Readers already have vivid imaginations, to say the least.

Too much detail and you might overload them.

janetbellinger · May 1, 2006

I agree. I don't think we give readers enough credit when we hand feed them every single little image.

Sage · May 1, 2006

When I see a lot of vivid description in a novel nowadays, I'm always impressed. How did that person manage to describe exactly what they imagine the surroundings to be (at least I assume they did)? But if I concentrate too hard on reading the description, I get lost in it, & if I don't concentrate on it, I tend to skim it. But then I feel my own description suffers for it. Yet someone reads a scene from my novel & say "I could picture it perfectly." Yay, for readers' imaginations.

James D. Macdonald · May 1, 2006

Write within your abilities. Meanwhile, work to expand your abilities.

Mistook · May 1, 2006

Normally what's in my head is pretty blurry, and it's the act of writing that brings it into better focus.

The old "Show don't tell" rule is helpful because it forces you to really roll the film forward moment by moment, rather than simply describing the general rundown of the situation.

But you'll never hit every detail, no matter how well you write, because there just isn't enough paper or time. The trick is to hit the specifics that bring more atmosphere with them. If it's a diner, mention the smell of coffee, the crowd at noon, odds are the reader will hear the clink of glass and silverware without being told.

Mention the red leather of the booth seats. Odds are they'll fill out the whole diner with one or a type they're already familiar with. And remember that background is background.

BuffStuff · May 2, 2006

It can often help to think of each Scene in your story as a movie, literally. Thinking of the story in strictly visual terms can help to solidify vague notions of what we have in our heads. Of course, a novel is not a screenplay and shouldn't read like one but, taking the time to outline (mentally or on paper) each Scene AS IF it were a movie reel can really help as far as making small details come alive in concrete detail. Think to yourself, "If I could only use words in such a way as to describe the VISUAL DETAIL of a scene..how would I explain the scene?" When I say "Visual Detail" I don't just mean thinking of the setting visually. I mean thinking of conveying everything visually via physical objects, actions etc, including character thoughts, feelings, reactions, if possible. It's what good screen-writers need to do. Once you have the "visuals" in place, it can be that much easier to use words to describe the more abstract/harder to describe notions of what you are trying to convey.

Again, I'm not saying novels should read like screenplays, just that, at times, borrowing the mindset of a good screenwriter (temporarily) can help to solidify the abstract notions we have in our heads into concrete physicality.

KTC · May 2, 2006

I get readers to read excerpts and then rework whatever it is that isn't working. Sometimes, as a writer, I forget that the scene playing out in my head comes into disadvantages when I try to form it into words. Then, as a reader, I am bypassing what is actually on the page and viewing the scene in my head again. So, I'm a bad judge of whether or not the scene comes through to the reader. I count on the reader to say, "What were you trying to say here?" Then I rework the scene...try to get it on paper yet again. It's frustrating sometimes. That's why I think mindreading will be the novel of the future. It would be so much easier!

maestrowork · May 2, 2006

I wrote an essay on this a few months ago: Are We Ever Good Enough?

Pretty much sums up what I feel about the subject.

In particular:

A writer must remember that it's impossible for a reader to ever experience everything a writer does. Impossible. And that's okay. The idea is not that a writer must be able to share everything with the reader. The idea is that the writer helps the readers on that path of that discovery. Give them a glimpse and a taste of what is possible, stir their imagination and their soul. If only just a little.

I told my friend: As much as you think you've failed to express every thought and share every experience, you have succeeded in bringing me into your world and I appreciate that you let me take a glimpse and experience even just a small part of what you did and went through. What is important is that you have allowed me to walk next to you and see what is possible. You've succeeded in stirring my curiosity and my senses -- and suddenly I am there, through my own imagination and my own filters and experiences. You've allowed me to create my own reality. After reading your writing, I want to go there and experience it, first hand. And that is power. The power of provocation and evocation. The power of ideas. The power of imagination.

And that's the power we should cherish as writers.

Vaxil · May 3, 2006

Is this the same as, "I'm getting all my ideas out the best I can," but "don't like the way I've been writing it?"

aruna · May 3, 2006

Vaxil said:
Is this the same as, "I'm getting all my ideas out the best I can," but "don't like the way I've been writing it?"

exactly

MikeAngel · May 3, 2006

Vaxil said:
And yet another question from me,

What if when you write, and read what you've written, and from the readers point of view, you don't 'see' it the way you do when you think about it. Like, when we read we see descriptions and we see a view in our heads, what if what we write doesn't make us see it the way we want our readers to see it?
That is by far the biggest struggle I have with writing. I think up something, excitedly sit down to write it, and then when I'm finished I read over it, and I don't see it as I did when I was thinking about it.

Have you heard of revising? It sounds to me like you're spending 20% of the time picturing what you want to say and 80% drafting, but no revising. Re-visio = to see again.

Simply put, the mind is faster than the pen. Imagination is not in words, but in scenes. When one translates a picture into words, there's bound to be something lacking, at least on the first go around. I suggest you do this: expect your first draft to miss a great deal of what you "see." Expect a crappy first draft (Anne Lamott). Put it away for a day, then come back and write the scene again, without looking at your first effort. Wait another day. Repeat. Do this for 5 or 6 days. Then put the piece away for a week. When you take it up with fresh eyes, revise, and I don't mean fix spelling and grammar, I mean to put life into your prose--stronger verbs, specific nouns, a more complete picture, etc.

Many good writers spend 80% of the time revising. Those who simply draft and then get disappointed don't realize that writing is a process.

Jenan Mac · May 4, 2006

Vaxil said:
What if when you write, and read what you've written, and from the readers point of view, you don't 'see' it the way you do when you think about it. Like, when we read we see descriptions and we see a view in our heads, what if what we write doesn't make us see it the way we want our readers to see it?

Someone made the comment that writers don't write stories, they write instructions for others to put together their own stories. That really stuck with me.

Higgins · Sep 22, 2006

You can't completely control it

reph said:
Even if you get really good at describing your mental pictures, readers won't see the same ones you do. They don't have to. They'll see something that works for them.

In the end you can only give so much in the way of imaginative hints to the reader's imagination. Sooner or later the story is whatever it is in the reader's mind.

This can be kind of fun when reader's get back to you about things that surprised them as in,"Oh, so-and-so is a talking seal? I thought he was more like an elite military guy in an aquatic dog suit."

This could be despite the fact that you said many times that so-and-so was a talking seal....and yet its nice to get a different picture of the same thing. Actually the "Oh, I thought..." responses from readers may be the very best feedback you can get.

wordmonkey · Sep 22, 2006

Don't bother describing.

Oh sure, there will be times that you must describe something, but the rest of the time, don't bother. I rarely spend time doing a great deal of "what this character looks like." I actively try to describe the character through their actions and dialog. Give the reader and idea of what they're like inside rather than outside. This allows my readers to form their own picture of my characters. I trust them and it invests them in the piece as well.

Might not work for you, but it might be worth a try.

RedMolly · Sep 22, 2006

Mention the red leather of the booth seats.

Vinyl. With little silver sparkles in it.

Squeaks when you slide across it.

(diner devotee)

Bufty · Sep 23, 2006

Not in disagreement with anything said above, but if one can't visualise one's own picture from one's own words, how on earth can one expect anyone else to?

If that happens, the picture's not painted properly and needs to be rewritten. That's what editing and revision is for, and the discovery is not uncommon, surely.

As to painting the picture clearly so that a reader has a good chance of building the desired image - that's the craft - no?

Vaxil said:
...What if when you write, and read what you've written, and from the readers point of view, you don't 'see' it the way you do when you think about it. .

brianm · Sep 23, 2006

What if an ice skater can't do a triple axel? They learn how to do it by studying what is required physically, and then they practice and practice until they get it right. It may never be exactly what they want, but it will improve over time with practice.

The same holds true for writing. If you can't seem to get something right, you study how it's done and then practice it over and over again.

I have a penchant for changing POV's in a scene. Knowing this is a fault of mine, I study how to tell the same story without changing POV and then I practice and practice writing the scene until I get it without changing POV.

It just takes studying and honing the craft of writing. If you stick with it and practice what you learn, eventually it will become easier.

What if you can't write the way you want too?

WeWantTheFunk

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