Little Brown pulled the book

Yeah, but I do believe that they are pulling those books so they can replace them with the new versions. From what I understand they had no intention of doing the complete smackdown on that title. Anybody hear this?

Tri

I heard the same thing that they are fixing the book.

I believe that Little Brown would probably ask for the money back -- they're not going to eat that loss.

Beside, most contracts specifically have terms about original material and plagiarism. If the author clearly violates that term, the publisher can cancel that contract and the author would get nothing.

If they're recalling the books just to fix it... then Little Brown has lost a lot respect. They're condoning an author who plagiarize.

maestrowork said:

I believe that Little Brown would probably ask for the money back -- they're not going to eat that loss.

Beside, most contracts specifically have terms about original material and plagiarism. If the author clearly violates that term, the publisher can cancel that contract and the author would get nothing.

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I personally hope they do. It would help send a signal that plagiarism is NOT okay or acceptable.

Yeah but they can always sell the bad books as novelty/collector items on Amazon. Why not spin the hell out of it too, wot?

Tri

I have a copy of the Terry Goodkind book marked Copyright Robert Jordon. <shrug> I bought from a grocery store which did not accept returns on books. I'm sure others will have copies that they don't know to return (not everyone keeps on this type of thing).

maestrowork said:

I believe that Little Brown would probably ask for the money back -- they're not going to eat that loss.

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What loss? Even considering the cost of printing up new books, I think they'll still come out ahead. How many people had even heard of this person before the last week or two?

There really is no bad publicity, IMHO.

chartreuse said:

What loss? Even considering the cost of printing up new books, I think they'll still come out ahead. How many people had even heard of this person before the last week or two?

There really is no bad publicity, IMHO.

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Actually there is. The entire book market is based on a sense of trust. A business can crumble because of these sorts of things. How many people trust that the next book Little Brown prints isn't going to be plagarized as well? Especially if they do not stop printing this book all together? How many of their other authors are going to be closely scruitinized to see whether or not they plagarized as well?

The book packager is now known for putting together plagarized works. I certainly would not touch them. The chances are VERY high that this particular woman's writing career is OVER. She is like a walking lawsuit waiting to happen, publishers do not want to risk that kind of liability.

How many agents are now going to risk their career on an author who has been caught submitting plagarized work? not only that but her school is probably going to take a very close work at all of her essays and even if she has not plagarized them, she still runs a high risk of expulsion. You know its one of those silly little clauses called STUDENT CONDUCT.

Oh and that Frey guy, last I heard, lost his second book deal due to A million little pieces and all the big whopping lies he told in that. His non-fiction career is probably over and his fiction one might not get much of a chance.

There is such thing as bad publicity and it hurts! Especially in this industry.

triceretops said:

Yeah, but I do believe that they are pulling those books so they can replace them with the new versions. From what I understand they had no intention of doing the complete smackdown on that title. Anybody hear this?

Tri

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There is already a movie deal, so they may be trying to save that with a new version.

Does anyone else thing this whole sequence of events is weird? As I understand it, in high school this woman's parents sent her to a college consultant at IvyWest that charges $15,000-$30,000 to package kids to get them into Ivy league schools.

The consultant had an agent at William Morris for a book she wrote on the college application process. The college consultant gets a sample of the girl's writing and shows it to her agent. The agen shops the sample around. Alloy says the sample is "too dark" and asks her to write an e-mail about herself "in her own voice." Based purely on this e-mail folks at Alloy help her write the first 4 chapters and a plot outline. Now somehow Little Brown gets involved, and suddenly an unknown teen writer is getting a six-figure advance based on an e-mail, 4 chapters, and a plot outline that she had help with, and then she is told to go off and finish the book.

Maybe I have the story wrong (I've been following it in the NY Times), but this whole process sounds strange to me, especially since fiction from new writers is rarely bought on the basis of four chapters and an outline. Could it be that what Alloy was buying was actually a bright teen-age Harvard student of Indian descent to act as the "author" of a book so that they would have a good face and a publicity hook for it? Maybe the project was too much for her and she resorted to plagiarism to get through it. That isn't meant in any way as an excuse for her stealing, though. Also makes you wonder if she actually got into Harvard on the basis of her own abilities or if she was "borrowing" the work of others.

I do realize that justice here is fallable. However to go as far to say 'there is no such thing as bad publicity' is rediculous. Of course there is bad publicity and it does hurt.

It is obvious that woman has no conscience then to be able to plagarize and continue doing so then blame everything else.

I would be absolutely mortified if anything in my works came off as plagarized or copied. I try very hard to have my own unique voice and take on things.

And you don't know what kind of consequences she has faced, she might have sold double or triple the books she has without that. You also don't know what publishers may have shut her out due to this incident. Just because we don't see anything happening to these people on the surface, doesn't mean it's not happening. And I know a lot of people get away with plagarism with very few if any consequences, but it still rubs on their reputation. Some people don't care, some people do I guess.

Also after doing a bit of research, I could be wrong, I don't see any of her books published since 1992 unless she changed her name to Janet Dailey, and the most recent book there is 1999 so it is very possible it caught up to her and destroyed her career after all.

Could it be that what Alloy was buying was actually a bright teen-age Harvard student of Indian descent to act as the "author" of a book so that they would have a good face and a publicity hook for it?

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That makes more sense than the idea that a William Morris agent, a major book publisher and a successful book packager all went ga-ga over a teenager's breezy e-mail and a couple of sample chapters. She didn't even have a complete manuscript, yet they give her a $500K book deal? This whole thing is awfully fishy in more ways than just plagiarism.

Tish Davidson said:

Could it be that what Alloy was buying was actually a bright teen-age Harvard student of Indian descent to act as the "author" of a book so that they would have a good face and a publicity hook for it?

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Sounds good to me. Publishing is a business, and needs to make money, which it does by selling books. Any 'amgle' a publisher can get to create publicity is keenly sought.

In the UK, a teenage girl of African descent wrote a novel and didn't realise she was doing it (she says). Bloomsbury paid a £400,000 advance for 2 books. Why would they do that? It's all about marketing.

STORY

RobCurtis said:

In the UK, a teenage girl of African descent wrote a novel and didn't realise she was doing it (she says). Bloomsbury paid a £400,000 advance for 2 books. Why would they do that? It's all about marketing.

STORY

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yep. Helen Oyeyemi, for The Icarus Girl.

For those who don't knowit, there's a long thread on the Kaavya Viswanathan case here:
http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31849&goto=newpost

Carlene said:

Sorry, IceRose but there aren't always long-term consequences! Does the name Janet Daily ring a bell? She plagerized a LOT from Nora Roberts, got caught and apologize (something about having a nervous breakdown or garbage like that)! She's still publishing hard cover books! Every time I see one in the library I cringe. So I guess there really aren't any consequences for lying, cheating, stealing.

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Of course there are. They just aren't necessarily the ones you see, or want there to be.

It would be nice if cosmic justice worked out in such a way that no one who knowingly participated in this fiasco made a financial profit from it. But to think that's the only standard by which to judge whether or not there are consequences for lying, cheating, or stealing is short-sighted.

The book's editor has lost face, even if the book makes a profit. You have no idea what that may mean behind the scenes. The girl in question can kiss goodbye any academic career she may have hoped for, as well as any respect she may have wanted from the people at her university. The agency has a big, public blot on its reputation. These things matter.

People generally want the respect and admiration of their peers. There are some people who can truly laugh all the way to the bank and be honestly oblivious to scorn, but they are few. Most of us hurt when people look down on us.

Many scandalous events cause people to land on their feet - resulting in a better finish for them.


Remember Vanessa Williams? After winning Miss America, or whatever it was - it was discovered she had done some sexually explicit nude photos with another woman - so they took her "crown" and title away? She came back to become a pop singer. It worked out better for her.


Perhaps this Harvard girl doesn't want to write teen novels, perhaps she wants to do something else - something academic. Whatever it is, it sounds like her parents can and will buy any future she wants.


I wouldn't worry about her.


Of course, there have been scandals similar in the past which have ruined the participants:


Remember Milli Vanilli? Those two guys were completely used by the establishment - for their good looks and image - had no control whatsoever in being overdubbed - but it ruined them.


They took all the brunt of the joke - were stripped from fame - one tried to kill himself. Neither has been able to rise above it. VERY SAD.

Aconite said:

Of course there are. They just aren't necessarily the ones you see, or want there to be.


People generally want the respect and admiration of their peers. There are some people who can truly laugh all the way to the bank and be honestly oblivious to scorn, but they are few. Most of us hurt when people look down on us.

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You can say that again. Especially for the girl - Indians are terribly aware of reputation. This whole thing of wanting to get theor kids into Harvard, be doctors and lawyers - it' s much more about esteem than about money. Indians who come to the West have a tremendous urge to prove themselves in the eyes of Westerners, and not just through financial success. This is a catastrophe for the family.

I tend to agree that this was a massive publicity stunt to sell an author and not a book, per se. The whole thing stinks of a package--meaning everything was jigged together into a nice presentable mold.

Here's the part that gets me--it was a reported $500,000 advance. Little Brown didn't outright deny it, but stated that the figure was way off and less than that. So, here we have the first indications of a scam going--inflate the advance to add credibility to the writer and value to the product. Then when Little Brown is called on the carpet to expell the proper amount, they don't do so but HAVE TO ADMIT that the sum was a misquote.

The general reading public equates stratospheric advances with quality writing and superhuman talent. What do you want to bet that we discover the true advance (takehome) for these two books was more like in the range of 40,000 apiece; much more in keeping with the supposed launch of a breakout novel?

As much as I have believed in the past 30 -years that a great inventive story, told by a new and talented voice, and that such a story will eventually find a home, I suddenly rear my head to see this kind of bueaurcratic baffoonery and tasteless literary whoredom. Yea, it is indeed hard to recover from the "unreality" of this stunt gone awry.

You know what else hurts? I can hear it coming from the basement of the raw-raw PA sisterhood that this was, and is infact the way "Big" publishing works nowadays--that it's who you know, and that it's all trumped up spectical, smoke and mirrors, where only the high-rollers play and get books into print.

From what I understand this gal had NO previous story or novel experience other than a breezy, gay writing blog and she was "discovered" from this alone which set the wheels in motion. Oh, yeah. Yup. Sho nuff.

I say we take two of our own intelligent, exotic, and talented beauties and showcase them for all the world to see, and start bloviating and promoting them to stardom. Only Dama Negra and Sharon Mass (Aruna) have more talent in their hairstrands than ten of anything that Little Brown, William Morris, and this packager could fetch up.

It is indeed a dark day in Writersville. I'm inclined to walk to and hang myself on the tree of woe and contemplate the meaning of life.

Tri

I agree Tri -


this exact topic had me in a frenzy of a depression for a few hours this week.


To think that the literary market is all about money and who you know and image ...........I just can't stomach it.

Agreed Eldragon. We have the most wonderful support group here at AW. Everyone knows our credo--do your best and make them stand on their heads. Really wow em with a really great book. Be polite, be professional, be respectful, be all you can be, and by gawd, never give up. We live and breathe "integrity" here. I know that this profoundly hurt a lot of us. I know that it did with me. And so close on the heels of the Frey thing. Gak! What's a community to do? Rise above it and forge on, I reckon.

I knew instinctively from William Haskin's first post that he was genuinely outraged about something, when this came down. And I knew then that it was going to be very bad juju somehow. We've only seen the tip of the berg on this one. It IS that bad.

Tri

triceretops said:

I tend to agree that this was a massive publicity stunt to sell an author and not a book, per se. The whole thing stinks of a package--meaning everything was jigged together into a nice presentable mold.

Here's the part that gets me--it was a reported $500,000 advance. Little Brown didn't outright deny it, but stated that the figure was way off and less than that. So, here we have the first indications of a scam going--inflate the advance to add credibility to the writer and value to the product. Then when Little Brown is called on the carpet to expell the proper amount, they don't do so but HAVE TO ADMIT that the sum was a misquote.

The general reading public equates stratospheric advances with quality writing and superhuman talent. What do you want to bet that we discover the true advance (takehome) for these two books was more like in the range of 40,000 apiece; much more in keeping with the supposed launch of a breakout novel?

Tri

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VERY true. Remember I mentioned Helen Oyeyemi a few posts back? There was also a huge hype about her when her book came out - 17 year old schoolgirl writing a novel secretly in the middle of her school leaving exams, yadd yadda yadda, £400000 advance (that's about $600000, I reckon.)

From the start she simpered arounsd saying no, the advance was actually lower than that, yet since ALL the newspapers came out with that sum from the start, it seems clear that that was the sum officially declared at the beginnning. Later on it turned out that it was "only" £40000.

The whole set-up had me fuming from the start, and seeing as she is Indian I can only say honey, that's karma. Perfect balance. You made your bed, now lie in it.

It's common for contracts to include "escalator" clauses. Author gets a $10K advance. If a book hits #1 on the Times best seller list, an additional $50,000. If the book is made into a movie that opens in the top ten, another $50,000. Woo! That can be reported as a $100,000+ deal.

Not totally honest? Well, everyone does it.

I am neither a fiction nor non-fiction book writer. But, there's a part of me which decries what has been perpetuated by the people around this young Indian Harvard University student.

And, there's another part of me which understands it from the business side. I understand that the book publishing world, once rarified and genteel, is now but a business, and publishing companies are more often part of media conglomerates. The numbers count; it is no longer a book but a 'unit', and the balance sheet deals concerning the profit and loss of moving 'units'. I refer the people here to the earlier thread of the economics of publishing.

The treatment given her by the 'handlers' I think is probably more indicative of Hollywood. But, depressing as it is, it is probably inevitable with the 'corporatisation' and increasing conglomerate ownership of publishing companies.

ATP

ATP said:

I understand that the book publishing world, once rarified and genteel, is now but a business....

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Alas, I can show you quotes from authors dating back to the 1920s that say the same thing in almost the exact-same words.