Peculiar responses from publishers

Elise_of_the_Isle · Apr 9, 2006

As of late, I have been receiving the near exact same response from publishers. Most of them have been glowing praise about my writing ability, characters, premise, and imagination, but they always end in a rejection. This one phrase has popped up common "it's not the direction they are headed".

I am an alternative fantasy writer who writes stories more along the lines of Alice in Wonderland than tranditional fantasy or vampiric dark fantasy. Even fantasy publishers whose message is that they prefer books that do not follow in Tolkien's footsteps have said the same thing.

It has left me feeling miserable, because most of my writing has been receiving the same treatment. I mix genres into a big boiling pot and though I try to cater the selected work to the publisher's main forte, I receive the same response. 'though good just not the direction they are headed'.

My next step is to get an agent so i can try and reach publishers that require agented authors. Any advice for an author who loves to tell a good story, but not exist in one genre? Also what is that cryptic 'not the direction we are headed'. Sometimes i just feel like giving up.

omega12596 · Apr 9, 2006

Hmm, Elise, I don't know much what to make of 'not the direction' myself. It sounds to me like you have a great story but something about it isn't what the publisher's think is marketable.

You said its Alice in Wonderland like, but is it YA type or Adult? I don't stick to one particular genre or theme myself, and it seems that at least in regard to particular genre's and theme's, publishers are looking for adult content. If you know what I mean.

Have you thought about trying to make the work more 'marketable'? Not that I am saying you should. Personally, you have to write the story you have to write. Don't give up! If its good, it'll find a home one day. I know waiting sucks, but I am sure it'll be worth it in the end. Keep going and welcome to AW.

reph · Apr 10, 2006

Are you querying publishers that have a children's line?

Elise_of_the_Isle · Apr 10, 2006

I think that is the problem, the marketable part. It is intended for a mature audience, because it deals with the afterlife. Nothing gratutious, but cities populated with demons and winged people, while the grim reaper works as a real estate agent isn't quite for a YA crowd. It is a world where all religions are correct, so I think some publishers' religious background clouded them from seeing that the story is about a girl trying to find herself. It is very much an endearing drama and humorous in a Swiftian manner (author of Gulliver's Travels).

I am working on more marketable titles, though it is tiring to be working on my fourth novel and sitting on a stack of rejection letters that say 'keep up the good work and hope you find someone'. I am playing around with the experience within MMO's, online forums, the internet and general teenage life--and no one gets sucked into any game. Think William Gibson meets fun to read, sometimes humorous teen fiction. -_- I do have a gimmick hook since that is what seems to be needed. Problem is I feel into the first person trap and I hate writing first person.

Simple enough solution is to just rewrite what little I have so far, but I feel paralyzed sometimes. I always think 'will publishers like this?'

Elise_of_the_Isle · Apr 10, 2006

Well I was working on a YA fantasy, but I stopped because I am sure publishers are getting too many manuscripts in the genre. No matter how well it is written or origional, there is a good chance publishers are glancing at every other juv fantasy submission. I have a hard time writing children age level, because I love playing with language and writing striking passages. I was a weird kid who read college level books because I didn't like any of the ones chosen for my age. Though I still like 'The Giver', because in 3rd grade I found a YA book that didn't talk down to me in the final message. Sure the main character came to a realization, but society had already been set up to be just so.

Tish Davidson · Apr 10, 2006

I have had similar glowing rejections, and the bottom line always, regardless of the verbage is We don't think we can make money on this book.

veinglory · Apr 10, 2006

I think it is a stock way of politely saying they don't want it--not really meant too specifically.

omega12596 · Apr 10, 2006

Truthfully, Tish probably has the right of it.

Elise, if you feel like you can SAFELY rework the ms. into a third person POV, then sure. Do it. Without seeing the work it's hard to judge what you mean by for a mature audience, but it certainly sounds like a good book.

But if you're demographic would be mid to late teens, well the problem may be that as a general group, they don't want to read about religion that's in your face. If you cover it up in fantasy or science fiction or horror, teens will gobble it up. But if its obviously about religion or a religious experience teens probably won't buy it.

That's my opinion, though I have teenage brother and sister so I'm lucky to have a bit of an inside track, LOL.

Jamesaritchie · Apr 10, 2006

Publishers

The publishers mean they don't want the book, and each probably has a different covert reason, but the over reason is probably the same everywhere. It's a novel they don't think the public will buy in large enough numbers to justify publishing it.

I suspect writing style is more a problem than subject matter. Almost anythng can be made to appeal to YA readers, if you go about the writing properly. You seem to be writing betwixt and between, an dyou have to go all one way or the other, else publishers simply do not know what to do with a novel.

It's likely you need an agent with this novel, both for guidance on how to make it marketable for one audience or the other, and to help find the right publisher for it.

TrickyFiction · Apr 10, 2006

Elise_of_the_Isle said:
the grim reaper works as a real estate agent

Whoa! I would totally read it based on that line alone.

Zolah · Apr 10, 2006

Elise_of_the_Isle said:
I think that is the problem, the marketable part. It is intended for a mature audience, because it deals with the afterlife. Nothing gratutious, but cities populated with demons and winged people, while the grim reaper works as a real estate agent isn't quite for a YA crowd.

Are you joking here? Have you read 'Sabriel' by Garth Nix or 'A Darkling Plain' by Phillip Reeves, or 'Bloodtide' by Melvyn Burgess, or 'Tithe' by Holly Black? Ye Gods, the afterlife, demons and death working as an estate agent is NOTHING in YA fiction today. And I'll tell you something else - even though the YA fantasy market is overcrowded, it is still enjoying an official Golden Age, producing cutting edge, original, beautiful fantasy and S/F that quite often puts the adult genre to shame. Many YA publishers are willing to take a chance on a novel that no one in an adult editorial department would even dare to seriously consider. You could be missing out on the perfect market here! Go out and buy those books I've suggested and read them, then reconsider if your work could fit into this niche - and if it could, GO FOR IT!!!!!

reph · Apr 10, 2006

Casting the Grim Reaper as a real estate agent is so Terry Pratchettesque that there must be a slot for this novel somewhere, assuming it does everything else right.

scarlet · Apr 10, 2006

Dear Elise

Don't give up, if the publishers are bothered to actually write and praise your book, you must have something worthwhile here. Most people are lucky to get a reply at all. Or if they do it's a terse 'No thank you!'.

Even if it's not quite what they're looking for at the moment. I agree it would be advisable to ask an agent to look at it and discuss what it is that is not marketable or suggest other publishers who would be interested in your work.

There are experienced people who will take a look at manuscripts and give you some suggestions as to where you are going wrong or where improvements can be made. They are often authors themselves. I know a few UK ones but they may not be suitable for you. But be careful who you choose because it can be a 'jungle out there'.

Jamesaritchie · Apr 10, 2006

Novel

reph said:
Casting the Grim Reaper as a real estate agent is so Terry Pratchettesque that there must be a slot for this novel somewhere, assuming it does everything else right.

It also reminds me of some of Holly Lisle's work. I think you're right. Assuming everything else is right, there should be a slot for it somewhere.

ted_curtis · Apr 10, 2006

Elise_of_the_Isle said:
Well I was working on a YA fantasy, but I stopped because I am sure publishers are getting too many manuscripts in the genre. No matter how well it is written or origional, there is a good chance publishers are glancing at every other juv fantasy submission. I have a hard time writing children age level, because I love playing with language and writing striking passages. I was a weird kid who read college level books because I didn't like any of the ones chosen for my age. Though I still like 'The Giver', because in 3rd grade I found a YA book that didn't talk down to me in the final message. Sure the main character came to a realization, but society had already been set up to be just so.

As a fellow writer of YA/MG fantasy, I think the kiss of death is feeling like you an't play with words or write striking passages. From there it's a small step to writing down to your audience and preaching.

Yes, YA fantasy is a crowded market. But if it's good, you'll find a home eventually. Best of luck and keep plugging away at it.

Elise_of_the_Isle · Apr 10, 2006

The religion aspect is more hidden in the background. As for the real estate Grim Reaper, it is a bit darker than Prachett's. He has hired many Harbingers to act as agents to convince souls to instead come to Purgatory. Being that they are commission based, they fight over souls and sometimes try to rip a soul out when someone merely trips or sneezes. So the concept of a guardian angel is merely too many Harbingers were feuding over your body to get the job done.

I have characters who can quote only from books, even if merely just mother goose rhymes; cities with ever changing laws but one law always against lycanthropy --because fleas are a hassle; also wars are handled differently since everyone except the main girl is immortal.

There is a dark atmosphere throughout and the title is targeted more for late teen audience. This work is in third person and I absolutely adore the writing. -_- I'm one of those people who spend up to 15 min per line.

possible problems- publishers might not view it as flying off shelf. For awhile, when I afforded chapters online I had a nice underground following that was spread word of mouth.

-the first chapter is obviously darker than the others, after all, she just awoke to find herself in the raven filled (lost souls) courtyard waiting for her personal guide (the cynical drake) to take her to her final judgement. The humor only appears a lil later.

-demons as multi dimensional characters might clash with personal beliefs

My next novel is not as complex in character webs, simpler plot structure (I love the intricate subplots that all tie in together for a phenomenal ending), and has more of a gimmick hook.

Elise_of_the_Isle · Apr 10, 2006

Oh I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who replied. Woah, over 300 views. This is my first time here and everyone seems pretty cool so hope to get to chat with some of you.

Chickenchargrill · Apr 10, 2006

I'd say it sounds great for YA market. Very few things are taboo in YA writing, I'd even go so far as to say nothing, it depends how you portray it. However, perhaps the first chapter does need to be a little lighter. From the chapter outline I would say there is space to incorporate some humour.

I doubt demons as multi dimensional characters is a problem. How popular is Buffy and Angel?

MikeAngel · Apr 11, 2006

The idea of going direct to publishers BEFORE doing everything you can to secure an agent is bass ackwards. Most publishers don't want to mess with dealing directly with writers. An agent can do SO much for a writer, if they believe in the writing. First, get yourself an agent. That's the "direction" to go.

PS...before 1000 people post examples of those who have gone direct to a publisher, I know, I know. But, why swim upstream?

Zolah · Apr 11, 2006

MikeAngel said:
The idea of going direct to publishers BEFORE doing everything you can to secure an agent is bass ackwards. Most publishers don't want to mess with dealing directly with writers. An agent can do SO much for a writer, if they believe in the writing. First, get yourself an agent. That's the "direction" to go.

PS...before 1000 people post examples of those who have gone direct to a publisher, I know, I know. But, why swim upstream?

Actually, it depends on whether the project does turn out to be a YA or adult piece. For adult work, getting an agent first is probably the best way to go - but for a piece of children's or young adult literature, it's actually easier to get a publisher than an agent, and some very successful children's writers don't even bother to have an agent (children's agents seem to expect you to approach them when you have a contract in hand). That's just my experience (and the experience of a couple of friends), but it's worth bearing in mind that the children's and YA markets are quite substantially different from the adult one.

MikeAngel · Apr 11, 2006

Zolah said:
Actually, it depends on whether the project does turn out to be a YA or adult piece. For adult work, getting an agent first is probably the best way to go - but for a piece of children's or young adult literature, it's actually easier to get a publisher than an agent, and some very successful children's writers don't even bother to have an agent (children's agents seem to expect you to approach them when you have a contract in hand). That's just my experience (and the experience of a couple of friends), but it's worth bearing in mind that the children's and YA markets are quite substantially different from the adult one.

I stand corrected. I wonder, though, why YA would be any different? Sometimes there are good reasons for convention, sometimes those good reasons are lost in antiquity.

Prosthetic Foreheads · Apr 11, 2006

MikeAngel said:
I stand corrected. I wonder, though, why YA would be any different? Sometimes there are good reasons for convention, sometimes those good reasons are lost in antiquity.

I don't know why it's different, but it just is. My writing mentor is a published author of children's books and YA novels and the large majority of publishing houses in the YA business accept and even encourage queries directly from the author. Trying to get an agent if you write for YA is just an extra time-consuming step and completely unnecessary. It's just adding a few more months on to the process when you have to wait to get a response from the agents, then when you finally find one, they have to wait for a response from the publishers. When you can go straight to the source, do it.

Sharon Mock · Apr 11, 2006

Also, the science fiction and fantasy field has an unusual number of major publishers who remain open to unagented writers, and some very knowledgable and influential people still recommend finding a publisher before an agent.

I wish it were cut and dried -- it would make my life so much easier!

Sage · Apr 11, 2006

Sharon Mock said:
Also, the science fiction and fantasy field has an unusual number of major publishers who remain open to unagented writers, and some very knowledgable and influential people still recommend finding a publisher before an agent.

I wish it were cut and dried -- it would make my life so much easier!

So what we're all saying is that those of us who are YA fantasy writers should definitely try going straight to the publishers? (Man, all that wasted research on agents...)

ted_curtis · Apr 11, 2006

Sage said:
So what we're all saying is that those of us who are YA fantasy writers should definitely try going straight to the publishers? (Man, all that wasted research on agents...)

Or you can do both at once, and double your chances...

Peculiar responses from publishers

Elise_of_the_Isle

omega12596

New kid, be gentle!

reph

Fig of authority

Elise_of_the_Isle

Elise_of_the_Isle

Tish Davidson

veinglory

volitare nequeo

omega12596

New kid, be gentle!

Jamesaritchie

TrickyFiction

Who?

Zolah

Over the hills and far away

reph

Fig of authority

scarlet

Jamesaritchie

ted_curtis

Elise_of_the_Isle

Elise_of_the_Isle

Chickenchargrill

MikeAngel

Zolah

Over the hills and far away

MikeAngel

Prosthetic Foreheads

Sharon Mock

Wing nut

Sage

Our Lady of Parentheticals

ted_curtis