Quotes For Dummies

Akuma · Apr 3, 2006

What's the main reason an author has when he/she starts the book off with a quote? I think I can safely say that all of the times a quote starts the begining of the book, it has something to do with the book.
But just because your quote is relevant to your story doesn't mean you should necessarily put it there, right?
A story might not be as fun to read if its moral and essence is posted for all to see before the story even begins.

Some quotes I can also safely say, are "whoooosh"--way over my head. Might it be significant to the author, relevant to the book, but not strictly obvious? Is the author encouraging the reader to find the meaning, or is it merely the author's inside joke?

Oh, by the way, if you've ever had a quote with your story, post it and why. The only time I used a quote was way back when, back when I was interested in Tolkein-ish adventures.
I used the ever-original...

It’s about the journey, not the outcome.
C.S. Lewis

Hey, I was young. Don't judge me!

janetbellinger · Apr 3, 2006

I like to read a quote at the beginning of a book, as long as it isn't preachy and as long as the book isn't too much about the quote.

Danger Jane · Apr 3, 2006

I like a good quote, but I'd be careful to make sure the book holds up to the quote that kicks it off. Wouldn't want eighty thousand words to be overshadowed by four pithy lines, you know?

BuffStuff · Apr 3, 2006

Robert E Howard (Conan, Solomon Kane etc) included many Quotes from G.K Chesterton's poetry in his own work. Writers do it for various reasons; to pay homage, set a mood, even if it doesn't directly relate to the work they are writing.

PastMidnight · Apr 3, 2006

Honestly, I never read the quotes at the beginning of a book. Ditto with quotes at the beginning of chapters.

Danger Jane · Apr 3, 2006

PastMidnight said:
Honestly, I never read the quotes at the beginning of a book. Ditto with quotes at the beginning of chapters.

I read them unless they're in other languages than English. Which is surprisingly often.

Jamesaritchie · Apr 3, 2006

Quotations

I don't know why writers use quotations at the beginning of a chapter. I suspect it's for as many reasons as there are writers. I usually like them. I'm a fan of quotations, and peruse "Bartlett's Familiar Quotations," and "The Oxford Dictionary of Quotations" often.

Perhaps this is because, as W. Somerset Maughm said, [size=-1]"The ability to quote is a serviceable substitute for wit." [/size]

expatbrat · Apr 3, 2006

He with most clichés wins

I love them. I get quote of the day delivered to my inbox and have a relevant one at the start of each of my chapters. I have quotes on photos around my house, on my wall where I work and in my diary and about a thousand of them in a notebook by my desk.

They are snappy and smart. As a personal trainer I have quote of the week and stick write it in all my clients training diaries and my clients love them. When I was swim coaching I put a motivational quotes on our workout whiteboard every session and people always commented on them. I reckon most people like quotes. If they fit your story may as well use them - silly not to.

Karen

REMEMBER - so you don't forget

Phouka · Apr 3, 2006

I love quotes, but admit that I never read them if they start out a chapter or book, just like I never read acknowledgements or other front-matter.

I also don't read poetry inserted in novels or used as an intro. (Well, unless the story is specifically about poetry, I guess.) To this day, I have read nothing more than the first one or two lines of any bit of poetry in LOTR. I skip it every time, and do the same in every other book I've found it in.

Jamesaritchie · Apr 4, 2006

Phouka said:
I love quotes, but admit that I never read them if they start out a chapter or book, just like I never read acknowledgements or other front-matter.

I also don't read poetry inserted in novels or used as an intro. (Well, unless the story is specifically about poetry, I guess.) To this day, I have read nothing more than the first one or two lines of any bit of poetry in LOTR. I skip it every time, and do the same in every other book I've found it in.

You're missing some very, very good writing.

CaroGirl · Apr 4, 2006

PastMidnight said:
Honestly, I never read the quotes at the beginning of a book. Ditto with quotes at the beginning of chapters.

How do you guys do this? How do you manage to not read something that's on the page in front of you? I'm such a compulsive reader, I read everything from acknowledgements and dedications to the writing on the fly-leaf. Not to mention cereal boxes, billboards, junk mail, the side of the pen I stole from a hotel.

I can't help myself.

As for those of you who manage to skip the prologue, well, that's just impossible for a hapless person like me.

Shadow_Ferret · Apr 4, 2006

I skip the quotes, too. I'm in too much a hurry to get to the story to be distracted by something I'll end up overanalyzing anyway.

MDavis · Apr 4, 2006

I think I'm a cross between Caro and Phouka. If the quote is too long, and I'm too eager to get to the story, I'll only read the first part of the quote and then give up.

But I love acknowledgements (sometimes I read those after I finish) and I love prologues too. As for poetry, it's one of the things that got me into fantasy in the first place.

I can still recite all or most of the poetry written by Susan Cooper for her "Dark is Rising" sequence.

"On the day of the dead when the year too dies,
Must the youngest open the oldest hills
Through the door of the birds, where the breeze breaks.
There fire shall fly from the raven boy,
And the silver eyes that see the wind,
And the Light shall have the harp of gold.

By the pleasant lake the Sleepers lie,
On Cadfan's Way where the kestrals call;
Though grim from the Grey King shadows fall,
Yet singing the golden harp shall guide
To break their sleep and bid them ride.

When light from the lost land shall return,
Six Sleepers shall ride, six Signs shall burn,
And where the midsummer tree grows tall
By Pendragon's sword the Dark shall fall."

(from The Grey King, by Susan Cooper)

That's simple, chill-inducing stuff, and very relevant to the entirety of the series. I can't imagine not reading it.

Vomaxx · Apr 4, 2006

"Epigraph : 1. a motto or quotation at the beginning of a book, chapter, etc.
2. an inscription on a building, monument, etc."

There's even a word for these things.

expatbrat · Apr 4, 2006

Skim?

CaroGirl said:
How do you guys do this? How do you manage to not read something that's on the page in front of you? I'm such a compulsive reader, I read everything from acknowledgements and dedications to the writing on the fly-leaf. Not to mention cereal boxes, billboards, junk mail, the side of the pen I stole from a hotel.

I can't help myself.

As for those of you who manage to skip the prologue, well, that's just impossible for a hapless person like me.

I was asking myself the same question. Do you people READ a book or just skim it? I read absolutely everything too. Isn't being a non reading writer a bit like being an un-fit personal trainer?

Poems... what a perfect excuse to share my favourite.

They said to build a better world,
I said I would - but how?
The world is such a cold dark place
And it is complicated now.
And I'm meek and small,
There is nothing I could do.
Ohh yes there is they said,
Just build a better you.

Author - no idea... Good one huh.

expatbrat · Apr 4, 2006

Actually - it is so good I am going to stick it on my signature for a while.

victoria.goddard · Apr 4, 2006

quotations within chapters (as opposed to before them)

This is sort-of vaguely related, in that it is about using quotations in books.

I don't use quotations as an epigraph or anything (though I liked how Connie Willis used them in "To Say Nothing of the Dog"), but I do have characters quoting within the story. The main character, in fact, speaks entirely in quotations for the first couple of chapters (which warranted some digging around in various books of quotations for relevant ones!). It's a major part of his character and how he relates to other people.

My question is this: Should I always identify the author? The MC knows where they're coming from, and sometimes his interlocutors cap his quotations or identify them. Sometimes it makes sense for him to be thinking, "Just as Ernest Bramah says in one of the Kai Lung books," (or something similar), because of the surrounding story, but other times it feels awkward to stick it in. As I reader I love being able to identify a quotation (or an allusion) without being told, but I also get frustrated with having no idea where said quotation came from.

Do any of you have an opinion about this?

janetbellinger · Apr 4, 2006

I think you're obligated to give credit to the author of the quote, even if it's Shakespeare.

Akuma · Apr 4, 2006

victoria.goddard said:
This is sort-of vaguely related, in that it is about using quotations in books.

I don't use quotations as an epigraph or anything (though I liked how Connie Willis used them in "To Say Nothing of the Dog"), but I do have characters quoting within the story. The main character, in fact, speaks entirely in quotations for the first couple of chapters (which warranted some digging around in various books of quotations for relevant ones!). It's a major part of his character and how he relates to other people.

My question is this: Should I always identify the author? The MC knows where they're coming from, and sometimes his interlocutors cap his quotations or identify them. Sometimes it makes sense for him to be thinking, "Just as Ernest Bramah says in one of the Kai Lung books," (or something similar), because of the surrounding story, but other times it feels awkward to stick it in. As I reader I love being able to identify a quotation (or an allusion) without being told, but I also get frustrated with having no idea where said quotation came from.

Do any of you have an opinion about this?

I don't think you should always identify the creator of the quote, but I would certainly slip origins into enough of them so the reader can realize how many of the character's sayings are quotes. There's always a chance that your reader never recognizes the character's lines as quotes, thus depriving them a potentially more intimate knowledge about this charachter.

And if it feels awkward, either get rid of it or smooth it out.

As for your last point, I have no idea as to what to suggest!

victoria.goddard · Apr 4, 2006

I'm trying to remember what Dorothy Sayers does in her books. I know Lord Peter quotes various other things at many points, and I know she doesn't (didn't?) always identify their origins. I think, though, she set them off in quotation marks so that they would be identifiable as quotations. I think Connie Willis does the same. Perhaps that will be enough--mark them all as quotations, identify the ones that the MC would logically be identifying for himself (he can be a bit self-conscious about them; he deliberately using quotations because he doesn't like to reveal his own thoughts), and leave the other ones to be guessed at.

Thanks for your input, Akuma.

Sage · Apr 4, 2006

How come people can put quotes & poems in their novels, but not song lyrics?

MDavis · Apr 4, 2006

I don't know, is there a rule that you can't use song lyrics? Or is it more a copyright thing?

I know of a romance writer who used to infuse a bit of the flavor of the times into her novels by starting each chapter with a piece of Regency-era pop culture. Often, this meant ribauld folk songs, or captions from political cartoons.

Of course those things aren't covered by copyright, so I would think that if the song lyrics are your own, or you don't fear the threat of copyright infringment, lyrics can be just as good as poetry or quotations.

PastMidnight · Apr 5, 2006

CaroGirl said:
How do you guys do this? How do you manage to not read something that's on the page in front of you? I'm such a compulsive reader, I read everything from acknowledgements and dedications to the writing on the fly-leaf. Not to mention cereal boxes, billboards, junk mail, the side of the pen I stole from a hotel.

I am compulsive reader too, actually. I'll always read the introductions and acknowledgement pages of books. I just don't like reading quotes at the beginning, for whatever reason. I'm with Akuma...lots of times the quotes just go over my head, especially before I read the book. If I do read them, they don't "set me up" for the rest of the story. I don't have issues with quotations themselves, but honestly don't see the point of many of them at the beginnings of novels. Quotes within the text don't bother me, as they usually seem more pertinant.

I'm like Phouka in that I also don't read poems within a novel. Poetry is just the one form of writing that I do not like.

But I do read the book. I've never lost any part of the story by skipping over the quotes at the beginning or the poetry within the text.

victoria.goddard · Apr 5, 2006

Sage said:
How come people can put quotes & poems in their novels, but not song lyrics?

My thought was that I could use them since they're in public domain. I mean, I usually get them from books of quotations, and they don't have copyright information for what they list. Sometimes directly from the source, if I happen to be reading something that works--though given my academic interests, I often end up with extremely obscure things! Though if I take some phrase from the manuscript, I doubt that anyone could complain about copyright issues ...

Does anyone happen to know whether length matters in this regard? For example, if I want to include a whole scene from Hamlet (which is relevant, at least for the first part of the story--my MC is an actor and how he thinks about what he's doing on stage is very important--he's the sort of person who would think, or even obsess, about the relevance of Hamlet to his life; it's the same sort of impulse that drives him to speak in quotations), is that a problem?

I checked the edition of the play I was using, and on the copyright page it says:

"This edition may be used in its entirety, in adaptation or in any other way for theatrical production, professional and amateur, in the United States, without fee, permission or acknowledgment."

(I may ultimately have a problem, since I'm Canadian, but I'm sure I can find some Canadian edition of the text--or go to the folio editions--to get around that.)

Does the permission extend to use in print form, I wonder? Anyone know?

Quotes For Dummies

Akuma

Rare Writer Pokemon

janetbellinger

Danger Jane

BuffStuff

No more being nice to Pee D

PastMidnight

Oponionated

Danger Jane

Jamesaritchie

expatbrat

Look what we made:

Phouka

Jamesaritchie

CaroGirl

Living the dream

Shadow_Ferret

Court Jester

MDavis

The Brunette She-Ra

Vomaxx

expatbrat

Look what we made:

expatbrat

Look what we made:

victoria.goddard

janetbellinger

Akuma

Rare Writer Pokemon

victoria.goddard

Sage

Our Lady of Parentheticals

MDavis

The Brunette She-Ra

PastMidnight

Oponionated

victoria.goddard