Moving on

Glenda · Mar 20, 2006

I looked and didn't know where to post this. So if it is not in the right forum I apologize. However, I have some questions I hope can be answered here with the pros. If a person wanted to get a book published again that was under another publisher, lets say like PA, dose that person need to change title, names, and author of the book? If I have to do that would I need to get it a copy right on it again? I read somewhere that if the book you submit to other publishers could link it back to PA, your book would even get a chance. Please for you that have been down this road, of recieving your contracts back and getting to move on with your books, what did you do with your books. Thank you very much, Glenda

Aconite · Mar 20, 2006

Hi, Glenda. Your question is complicated, and nobody can give you legal advice for your situation in a public forum, but maybe this will help you understand some of the issues involved.

If you have the rights to your book--if, for example, you received a termination letter from your publisher--you may freely submit that book, as is, wherever you please. You don't need to change anything. The publishing rights belong to you, and you may offer them to other publishers. Whether or not it's a good idea to do so is another matter. If your book was previously published, any other publisher will want to know how it sold, and if it did miserably, that will probably count against you. Also, you're probably a better writer now than when you first wrote the book, so it no longer reflects your skill level and ability. Given that, you may want to rewrite the book, or even put it aside and work on a better one instead.

Unless you are self-publishing, don't bother registering the copyright on your book. Real publishers--not vanity outfits like PA--do that for the author, in the author's name. (Don't believe the crap some scam publishers tell you about how "all those other publishers" take your copyright. Not true.) In the US, copyright exists from the moment of creation, not from registration.

If you have not received a termination and reversion of rights from your book's publisher, your situation is trickier. You cannot legally offer that book to anyone else. You may write something very like your book and sell that, but you cannot just make a few small changes. Determining what changes are enough to make it a different book is complicated and not an issue I'm even going to touch, because there are legal issues involved and I'm not an expert.

Reading through some of the threads here on AW (like How Real Publishing Works, which is at the top of this board) and searching the PA threads may give you more information. Good luck!

victoriastrauss · Mar 20, 2006

This seemed more appropriate for the Novels topic, so I've moved it there.

- Victoria

Glenda · Mar 20, 2006

I’m sorry Victoria for where I posted. I didn’t know where the appropriate place to put it. And I figured with so many ex PA authors here at AW, someone would know answers to my questions.

Thanks for the advice Aconite. I did get my rights back without any restrictions. I was just afraid if the publisher I submit to linked my book back to PA, they would not give it a chance. The release date is not until April 3rd. PA taught me what not to do, by going with them. I didn't know at the time what kind of publishers they are not. I took them at their word. When I got my authors copies and found a lot of mistakes, not only mine, but theirs too, I asked them to fix it. They refused, so I ask for my contract back since I could not in good coconscious market an over priced paperback book full of mistakes. I didn’t know they would do no editing at all. I got the cancellation in the mail Sat. Thanks a lot for the info, Glenda

icerose · Mar 20, 2006

I too am faced with this issue. I believe it will be best for my book to re-write it, make it better, change names and really change the book, its almost like writing a new one, but this one is an important part in a huge series so I can't just file it away, if I could I will walk away from it and forget it was ever written.

But I would strongly suggest do an extensive re-write, try to put new and better angles into the book, change characters names, and such. You do not have to change your author name, it doesn't matter if you are linked to PA, they may hurt a little, but not enough to make that much of an issue, unless you are a happy PA author then you might not be taken seriously. (which obviously you are not)

But just because you have published with PA doesn't mean its a career ender, its just not a helper like its supposed to be.

Good luck, I wish you all the best in the world.

Another ex-PA author and loving it.

Sara

Bufty · Mar 20, 2006

Glad you got your rights back, Glenda. I wish you all the best. (William)

Bufty

citymouse · Mar 21, 2006

When I got my authors copies and found a lot of mistakes said:
Glenda,a few days ago I wrote a response to a fellow in Finland. In that post I said there are a few things someone who is considering a POD company should do before making such a decision(Please note that I'm writing from my experience which is, after all, what this forum is all about). Chief among them is "get a professional editor." I got royally slammed by two people in this forum for that post. I won't quote them here but suffice it to say that their remarks stung me (It will be interesting to see if they come at me again). I learned the hard way with my first POD book that if you self-publish you must prepare and edit. No matter how skilled you are as a writer you'll still make mistakes--that's what an editor is for. Also POD companies are full of people who make mistakes too. When I got my galleys for my second book I saw that some fool had changed all the chapters from Forty-one on, to Fourty-one...etc. Grrrrrrrr.
Speaking of galleys, didn't PA send you any for your book?

I have two books out with POD companies and a third on the way. If you still want to pursue POD I sugggest you visit this website:http://www.gropenassoc.com/articles/SelfPublishingProsAndCons.htm
This site is only a guide. The best way to guage POD companies is research each one; ignoring the cost versus how much money you'll make on your book. POD publishing is, in my opinion and with very few exceptions, a route for people who want to be read rather than those looking for a living writing novels.

Also if you wish you can email me directly through my website www.michaelhalfhill.com and I'll be happy to discuss the process with you.

Best of Luck, Michael Halfhill

Saundra Julian · Mar 21, 2006

Great advice everyone and very helpful, huh Glenda?

MadScientistMatt · Mar 21, 2006

Glenda,

You're in luck - while you had a contract with PA, it never went to press. So you can honestly say it's an unpublished novel.

Andrew Jameson · Mar 21, 2006

Glenda said:
I did get my rights back without any restrictions. I was just afraid if the publisher I submit to linked my book back to PA, they would not give it a chance. The release date is not until April 3rd...

So your book wasn't actually *published* with PA? That seems like it puts a whole 'nother spin on the issue. You still own all the rights, and it's never been published, so it seems to me you're in the same position as someone who's *never* been associated with PA.

However, I'm not a lawyer, and I'm especially not a lawyer with experience in publishing, so if you're really serious, you ought to find someone who *knows*.

Bufty · Mar 21, 2006

Most people who write want to be read, but POD - particularly Publish America - doesn't seem like the wisest first point of call to me, unless you mean you want your book to be accessible to very few people or read by a specialised niche of readers through your own marketing efforts.

citymouse said:
POD publishing is, in my opinion and with very few exceptions, a route for people who want to be read rather than those looking for a living writing novels.

citymouse · Mar 21, 2006

Bufty said:
Most people who write want to be read, but POD - particularly Publish America - doesn't seem like the wisest first point of call to me, unless you mean you want your book to be accessible to very few people or read by a specialised niche of readers through your own marketing efforts.

Bufty, I’ll agree that PA has a lot of complaints against it and I personally would warn writers off it.

The notion that only a few people have access to POD products is not accurate. My books are accessible through Amazon.com, Barns and Noble.com. In point of fact, you can find my books in almost every online catalogue. I say almost because I haven’t checked out everyone listed on the World Wide Web; the top two are sufficient for me. My books are carried in brick and mortar bookstores across the country.

It is true, however, that POD authors must market their own books. That means long hours mocking up and printing press releases, making phone calls to bookstores, driving to book signings, doing readings at venues like “meet the author” parties. Most writers would rather type out their stories and avoid these things but there is no way around it that I can see. POD companies do offer marketing kits for a fee but these are generic How To Do It pages that one can get for free on the WWW. It should be noted too that traditional publishers market their established authors; newbies have to do the leg work just like POD customers. It’s a long road to stardom and few make it, but it’s a wonderful ride.

Michael

Bufty · Mar 21, 2006

The way around it is to find a Publisher who will do what publishers are supposed to do - put books on bookshelves in bookstores.

citymouse · Mar 21, 2006

Bufty said:
The way around it is to find a Publisher who will do what publishers are supposed to do - put books on bookshelves in bookstores.

Some people simply haven't the time left in their lives to do that. POD allows them to write, be published and be read. It's a shame that Publish America has come to represent so much of what people believe about POD companies.

Michael

Bufty · Mar 21, 2006

I'm running pretty short on the candle, too, but I haven't yet reached the stage where I give up on having my efforts read and enjoyed by as wide an audience as possible - as is the aspiration of every writer. If I just want to see my name on a book and have a handful of sales, I know what to do.
Every success to you.

MadScientistMatt · Mar 21, 2006

citymouse said:
The notion that only a few people have access to POD products is not accurate. My books are accessible through Amazon.com, Barns and Noble.com. In point of fact, you can find my books in almost every online catalogue. I say almost because I haven’t checked out everyone listed on the World Wide Web; the top two are sufficient for me. My books are carried in brick and mortar bookstores across the country.

How many actual, physical copies of your book are sitting on bookstore shelves right now? Any figures? Does your publisher offer them on a returnable business with an industry-standard discount?

citymouse · Mar 21, 2006

Moving On

It seems to me this thread is becoming personal. I'm always happy to kick a can down the street and see what rolls out but I'm unwilling to be kicked along with it.
Questions about my personal success that are couched in skeptical tones are out of line; and yes, that's a call I get to make.
As for my reasons for the paths I choose for myself in publishing my books, I'm always happy to discuss them in a private forum. Like the man says, everyone has opinions; it's what makes horse races.
This thread was intended to address Glenda's issue. I think that's been done and so as the thread title suggests, I'm Moving On.

Michael

"From the moment I picked your book up until I laid it down I was convulsed with laughter. Some day I intend reading it."

- Groucho Marx (1895-1977

MadScientistMatt · Mar 21, 2006

citymouse said:
It seems to me this thread is becoming personal. I'm always happy to kick a can down the street and see what rolls out but I'm unwilling to be kicked along with it.
Questions about my personal success that are couched in skeptical tones are out of line; and yes, that's a call I get to make....

Citymouse,

I did not mean for you to take my remarks personally; I merely wanted for you to support the claims that POD is an appropriate choice to get your books read, and that "The notion that only a few people have access to POD products is not accurate." The conventional wisdom on this forum that your average POD book has very low sales numbers, and hence lower numbers of readers, than your average book published through a commercial publisher. And the problems with getting POD books into bookstores are well known. If you wish to challenge that claim, the burden of proof lies on you to demonstrate that POD is indeed a viable route for "people who want to be read."

If you want to stand up and challenge conventional wisdom, be prepared for conventional wisdom to challenge you back.

Danger Jane · Mar 21, 2006

:O beware PA!

citymouse · Mar 21, 2006

Moving On

Conventional wisdom? Bah! The term argues that a proposition is true because many people believe it; if many believe it's so, it is so. It’s the stuff from which urban legends are made.

As for defending myself, I have done no wrong so I need no defense.

M-

Aconite · Mar 22, 2006

citymouse said:
Chief among them is "get a professional editor." I got royally slammed by two people in this forum for that post. I won't quote them here but suffice it to say that their remarks stung me (It will be interesting to see if they come at me again).

I'm one of those people who "royally slammed" you for stating that it was necessary to get your book "professionally edited" before submitting it. The other was HapiSofi, who is an editor at one of the major New York publishing houses. Neither of us attacked you; we picked apart the number of errors in your post about how publishing worked, one of which was that your manuscript has to be professionally edited.

Anyone who cares to see what was said can read that thread.

Glenda · Mar 22, 2006

Thanks

Thanks to all that replied to my post. I am at this moment working on sending both novels to publisher to be published. Thanks again, Glenda

Moving on

Glenda

Aconite

victoriastrauss

Writer Beware Goddess

Glenda

icerose

Lost in School Work

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?

citymouse

fantasy dweller

Saundra Julian

A work in progress

MadScientistMatt

Empirical Storm Trooper

Andrew Jameson

(not his real name)

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?

citymouse

fantasy dweller

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?

citymouse

fantasy dweller

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?

MadScientistMatt

Empirical Storm Trooper

citymouse

fantasy dweller

MadScientistMatt

Empirical Storm Trooper

Danger Jane

citymouse

fantasy dweller

Aconite

Glenda