Complaints and advice for WIPs which aren't working

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sunandshadow

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I was looking at the NaNoWriMo forums today, particularly the threads where in-distress authors write letters of complaint to their characters, entire novel, muse, or whatever they are having trouble with. I was thinking that while it might give the author some insight into their problems to explain them, or a little stress relief to moan and complain, the threads were mostly useless because no one was responding to the complaints to offer constructive suggestions or even to ask for a better explanation of the problem. So, I wanted to start a thread where anyone who's being driven up the wall by a persistent problem with their WIP could write a letter of complaint, and then people could offer suggestions for fixing each others' problems.


Example of a letter of complaint:

Dear GetATitle Already,

Where is your plot?! Your setting is completely inconsistent! Are you trying to make me lose what few marbles I have left?!

Joe Protagonist - Why aren't you 'protag'ing? You're not supposed to mope around and get distracted baking a cake!

Flo Loveinterest - You aren't loveable, sorry. You aren't even interesting. Get an attractive personality or I will arrange for a boulder to fall on you.

Schmo Villain - You are too darn nice. Where is your motivation? Where is your brilliant evil scheme? Fluffy bunnies and baby seals are scarier than you.

In conclusion, my dear GetATitle, I'm this close to burning you.
No love,
AuthorInDistress


So, do you all think this is a good idea for a thread, and is this the right forum to post it in?
 

sunandshadow

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Hmm, lots of pageviews but no replies. That must mean people thought the thread title was interesting but didn't find anything in the first post that they wanted to reply to. Perhaps if I write my own letter of complaint to my WIP that will get the ball rolling.


Dear DragonKisses,

You have had almost 3 years to 'percolate'. WHERE IS YOUR PLOT? At this point, I don't even care if it's original. Pick an existing romance novel and copy it if you have to, I could always add twists to improve it if you would ONLY give me a basic pattern to work with! I realize a double romance with elaborate science fantasy worldbuilding is a bit complicated, but there are whole series of novels that are way more complicated - look at George R. R. Martin's stuff! Look at Tad Williams' stuff! I'm not asking for anything even half that complicated!

Lieann, your part of the plot is the most important one that's missing. You are supposed to be a strategic genius. You are supposed to try to blackmail somebody, ANYBODY, into marrying you. Come up with a *@^% plan already!

And Ravennin, why the &@(% do you want to be a clan leader if you don't want to lead anyone to do anything?! You need to at least try to do something so you can screw it up hopelessly and get in trouble with your insane father. Preferably you should attempt something which requires you to scrounge up large amounts of cash like, oh, trying to put together a team to enter some competition for which the prize conveniently happens to be a clan territory. I know you're afraid of doing anything to draw your father's attention, but trust me, it will turn out to be a good thing so you can finally get away from that nut.

Darred - could you please decide whether you meet Merru before or after he begins his masquerade as the Captain, and what effect your gambling has on the plot?

Merru and Attra - you guys are doing pretty good. Keep up the good work. Although if you could come up with an enemy that would be tremendously helpful. Or maybe you could figure out some more about how the magic part of the worldbuilding works, pretty please?

So that's it DragonKisses - get your act straight, because I am not talking to you until you do. I am going to IGNORE you and write something else. And I know you are way too vain to stand for being ignored.

Tearing out hair (or feathers as the case may be),
- sunandshadow
 

Sage

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I enjoyed doing those types of threads for NaNo :D When I am no longer celebrating finishing the first draft of my novel & start editing, I'm sure I'll have plenty to tell the story/characters off about.
 

DamaNegra

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Hey sunandshadow, does DragonKisses have anything to do with dragon-lime?? :D

Ok, getting into serious mode:

Why not have Ravenin be vain and make himself look so cool so when Lieann sees him she thinks: "this is the one" and then she blackmails him into marrying her?
 

sunandshadow

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Lol yes, yes it does have to do with dragon-limes. ;) (Whoops I missed that chat thurdsay didn't I? Oh well, I'll try again this thursday.)

Actually Ravennin does make himself look cool - he's a champion hunter, he killed a tiger by himself and made a cloak out of it. And yes Lieann (who is a he by the way, it's a gay romance) does think the tiger-cloak is impressive and sexy. :D

But the idea I need for Ravennin is, what can he try to do to make himself a clan leader? He can't inherit his father's clan because his older brother is the heir, and Ravennin loves his older brother and would never try to assasinate him or anything. So Ravennin has to get a new clan from somewhere. But how do you start a new clan? I don't know. :(
 

Scribhneoir

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I don't read this genre, but I'll throw out an idea or two. How about Ravennin starts a new clan from outcasts of existing clans? Or a motley group of survivors from a clan that was decimated by war/disease/natural disaster? Or he saves a small clan from some evil doings of his insane father. Maybe Ravennin would be less reluctant to be a leader if there was a real need for him to be one.
 

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First let me say that I never considered writing a whine letter to a book or character, so this is a really fun idea.

The blackmail for marriage bit - perhaps something from the culture of your world will give you a clue there. Is there a social condition under which a couple must marry? Is there a festival at which if a couple has sex they must marry? Something like that.

An example of something I'm working on: I have a story about the selkie from Celtic mythology. They're shapeshifters that are seals in the water and human-looking on land. They have a sealskin they slip out of when they're taking their land form. One of the main selkie characters fell in love with a human and would have willingly married him. He stole and hid her sealskin, thus forcing her to remain on land and be his wife.

Your strategic genius will meticulously set the plan in motion even if it takes months, so Lieann will choose the target, make a detailed plan, and set about making it happen.

Your wanna-be clan leader - here are some possibilities:
1. He could have delusions. He could be the kind of person who hungers for power but has no skills. I have a character like that, and he's fun to write for. Even though I want to slap him around and later kill him slowly.

2. He could have a magnetic personality and woo people to join him in starting a clan at some juicy location that seems to have the best of everything.

3. He could find or quest for something, like a powerful artifact perhaps, that gives him prestige and makes people want to be led by him.

I hope that's helpful in getting the creative juices flowing.

Here's a technique you might try:

Before you go to bed, formulate one question that your deep mind can work on during the night. It might be, "What motivation does Lieann have that make him want to lead a clan?" Ask this question out loud if you want and just let it go. You'll have an answer. It might be the next morning or three days later, but your mind will work it out. I use this technique whenever I get "stuck," and it really helps.

Ronda
 

sunandshadow

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Ronda said:
The blackmail for marriage bit - perhaps something from the culture of your world will give you a clue there. Is there a social condition under which a couple must marry? Is there a festival at which if a couple has sex they must marry? Something like that.
Well, it's a science fantasy setting, so I could make up something like that. It's important to me that it not seemed cheesy or contrived though. One of the book's themes is fertility/infertility as connected with creativity/magic, so if I were going to create a cultural requirement for marriage it would have to have something to do with that.

In Lieann's case I think his motive is well enough accounted for by the facts that he's lonely and he doesn't get along with his current clan leader, his brother, because his brother hates being stuck with the embarrassment and political disadvantage of having Lieann around. So the question is what cultural elements would Lieann choose to use in an attempt to force someone to marry him?

In Ravennin's case, he's very in tune with tradition, so he would automatically try to follow whatever the traditional path to starting a new clan is. I was vaguely thinking some sort of team competition where the winning team gets a clan territory and/or some sort of official recognition, but I haven't been able to figure out how that would make any sense economically. The fact that Ravennin can't just easily start a new clan implies that there must be some rare item which limits the creation of new clans. This item could be a territory for a clan to live on, or permission/recognition from a controlling governmental force.

But if there's a shortage of territory, that would promote lots of wars/assasinations/coups over territory, which I don't want. If there's a shortage of permission, why is there a shortage and how come people can't just do without the permission? Also it's important that the permission can't be withdrawn once it has been given, otherwise the ending of finally achieving it wouldn't feel safe and satisfactory.

Another option is that some magical resource could be necessary to start a new clan. But this option creates the same questions about why it's necessary and why it's rare; and again, I want to avoid anything that seems cheesy, contrived, or foozle-ish.

Your strategic genius will meticulously set the plan in motion even if it takes months, so Lieann will choose the target, make a detailed plan, and set about making it happen.

Yeah that's what I want him to do, come up with a big complicated visionary plan involving Ravennin, patiently work on carrying it out, succeed at some parts, then feel betrayed and frustrated when at the key moment Ravennin won't cooperate, so Lieann has to start almost from scratch. I want that to be the division between Act 1 and Act 2 of the story.

Your wanna-be clan leader - here are some possibilities:
1. He could have delusions. He could be the kind of person who hungers for power but has no skills. I have a character like that, and he's fun to write for. Even though I want to slap him around and later kill him slowly.

No skills definitely does describe Ravennin. Or, no useful skills - he's a champion hunter, but who cares? He is both shy and grumpy, and thus terrible at making friends and being diplomatic. He is not terribly intelligent, that's why he needs Lieann to do his brain-work for him. He has poor self-esteem because his father always tells him he's worthless and dangerous. He is afraid of public criticism and desperately wants public admiration, so he tries to win that admiration by following the most traditional paths and acting with perfect self-control and honor.

But he has some good points too. He has a very strong desire to love and protect his family members. He loves his older brother and sister, wants to love his father even though the man verbally abuses him, and yearns to have a mate and children to love. Because he would love his followers (if he had any) and would sacrifice his life for them or (he's a natural dominant) quickly make decisions and take actions to protect them, he would be a good leader if he could ever relax, have confidence in himself, and trust his instincts.

I really like him as a character, I have no impulse to slap him around or anything, I mostly feel sorry for him and frustrated that I can't figure out how he would be trying to reach his goal of becoming a clan leader while he's trying to be all traditional and rigidly self-controlled. In order for the other characters to help him think outside the box later, there has to be a box for him to be trapped in at the beginning, and some epiphany which makes him realize he's not getting anywhere.
 

sunandshadow

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LightShadow said:
Is there a birth right? Maybe he can steal the birth right.

Nope - that would be convenient, but there isn't a birthright. The heir is either the favorite son of the previous clan leader, or whichever of the sons manages to enforce his leadership on the others after the previous clan leader's death. In Ravennin's case his brother is maybe 6 years older than him, has already vowed to make his best friend his second in command, and Ravennin loves his brother and thinks his brother will be a better leader than he himself could be, so he wouldn't have the heart to fight him (or blackmail him as DamaNegra suggests). Plus his father's healthy and likes being the leader, so he probably won't pass on the leadership of the clan for several more years.

Inheriting an existing clan which has no sons by marrying one of its daughters is a possibility, but Ravennin is not charming, has a somewhat dark reputation, and doesn't have a friend who could be his second-in-command, which is something of a political necessity. If Ravennin's father liked him he could try to use his political power to arrange a marriage like that, but Ravennin's father hates him.
 
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Ronda

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What if there was a woman trying to gain power for reasons of her own who encouraged your wanna-br leader. There would be all sorts of potential conflicts there. Just a thought. She might have some ability/power that improved his status.
Ronda
 

victoria.goddard

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This is just a thought regarding the 'economics' of setting up a new clan. If one of your main themes is fertility/infertility and creativity and magic and their interrelationships, perhaps forming a new clan is uncommon because it changes the magical balance of the world and thus has repercussions for fertility, creativity, and so on. There has to be some sort of method for the carving out of new territory that will, if the steps are properly followed (however unwittingly), allow a new one to be set up--if only for the purposes of your book.

You said that Ravennin is a kind of solitary hunter who seeks challenges in order to win renown and favour with his father. However, if he's shy, perhaps he doesn't want to boast about these successes, or prefers them to be made known through sidelong channels so that his father will believe him (this is how my MC behaves with regards to his father, though, so it's in my head and might not be how you perceive R). What if he hears of something, or accidentally stumbles upon something while hunting, the capturing of which will enable him to create a new clan without entirely overthrowing the delicate balance of fertility and magic in the world? (That would also help explain why there aren't terrible power struggles going on over territory--it would be too dangerous for everyone.) Perhaps (it depends on your cosmology and preferences) he encounters a god or goddess who changes the balance for him (kind of a reverse Diana and Actaeon thing).

As far as needing a second-in-command--can R, at the same time that L is trying to get his help in his own affairs, be secretly trying to mould L into that position? Then each could let down the other, unintentionally, at some crucial moment.

These are just a few thoughts--hope one of them helps a little!
 
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