Italics

I hate italics. If you have to resort to using italics, then it means you aren't getting your point across in the writing alone.

I think every writer has a style and that style may include any number of habits, pet peeves, and quirks, including the frequent use of italics. I can't say I'm particularly bothered by the use of italics, not nearly as bothered as I am by head-hopping. I'd venture to guess that most readers have quirks and pet peeves, too.

In the end all that matters is that you have a compelling, well written story.

Beth

I'm continually removing italics (or equivalent typographical emphasis) from my writing when I revise and polish it. After all, WHY would anyone use italics when you have a PERFECTLY GOOD caps lock key?

Seriously, I think it's a bit of a weakness, like saying "uh" or "you know" in public speaking. It's an easy/cheap way to put verbal rhythms and inflections into your writing, instead of working on "native" written pattern.

Uh, I also go back over my writing and delete extraneous quote marks too.

I also have to remove italics from my writing. They seemed absolutely vital at the time, but when I go back over my work, they usually aren't.

I can't remember ever being annoyed by italics while reading. I have been annoyed to the point of rage by the overuse of exclamation marks.

Tilly said:

I can't remember ever being annoyed by italics while reading. I have been annoyed to the point of rage by the overuse of exclamation marks.

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When I finally got a finished copy of my first pubbed novel in my hands, I opened it and reread it. I was embarrassed to no end to see how many exclamation marks there were in it! (<----that's a haha.) I wanted to snatch the book back and redo it before anyone could buy it but the first print run of 160,000 copies was already done. Yikes! (See, there's another one.) Maybe that's why the sales were only half that.

My work these days has hardly an exclamation point to be found. I still don't know what it was that made the exclamation marks leap out at me in that finished version of the first book (and why it couldn't have happened during the ms stage) but I"m glad it did.

Beth

Keep in mind that if you're looking at a book from a professional, commercial publisher, the author's opinion or decision regarding italics is probably not part of the issue; that decision is made by the copy editor, and typesetter, with consultation and reference to the house style sheet.

I don't think italic itself is the problem. For me, it's the constant invasion of internal thoughts. It's like watching a movie when the character constantly breaks into voice over -- "and then this is what I'm thinking." Just get the story going already. Exclamation mark is another indication that the writer is not comfortable with his story, that he has to make sure the readers know when the character is shouting or "exclaiming." The same goes with other excessive use of punctuation or stylistic choices such as em-dashes, semi-colons, etc. Once an author establishes that style and over uses it, it becomes a parody in itself.

Someone will probably say the same about me and dashes. I use those a lot and will probably have to go through and weed some unnecessary ones on on the next pass of revision. Italics I don't use all that often, and only then for extra emphasis. Most of the time the dialogue or narrative does the job.

Generally, I don't really notice italics in books. I've read most of the thriller authors you mention (Cornwell, Clark, Crichton, Grisham) and never noticed the italics. The only author I did notice--and get annoyed (see those dashes? )--was Mercedes Lackey. In several of her books, she used them for emphasis in an odd way, as an important sentence had been edited out that explained the emphasis. I always stopped and wondered why this word was being emphasized because it didn't make sense to be emphasized. I never got that from any other author.

But it should also be noted that all the authors cited are having to crank out a book or more a year. It may be caused by a time issue and not the author's best effort.

maestrowork said:

I don't think italic itself is the problem. For me, it's the constant invasion of internal thoughts. It's like watching a movie when the character constantly breaks into voice over -- "and then this is what I'm thinking." Just get the story going already. Exclamation mark is another indication that the writer is not comfortable with his story, that he has to make sure the readers know when the character is shouting or "exclaiming." The same goes with other excessive use of punctuation or stylistic choices such as em-dashes, semi-colons, etc. Once an author establishes that style and over uses it, it becomes a parody in itself.

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I understand what you are saying about italics and exclamation points needlessly emphasizing things that the reader should be able figure out on his/her own. Could you explain what you are saying about dashes, etc. here? Is it the aside that is often set off by dashes that you think is intrusive? Or just an excessive use of a particular form of punctuation?

PastMidnight said:

Could you explain what you are saying about dashes, etc. here? Is it the aside that is often set off by dashes that you think is intrusive? Or just an excessive use of a particular form of punctuation?

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Most em-dashes, IMHO, could be replaced by commas:

The box felt heavy -- like there was a dead person inside -- and there were no handles.




The asides also can become intrusive, taking the readers out of the story (much like the parentheses):

The weather was unusually warm -- the daffodils were already sprouting and obviously there was not a trace of snow -- when Amar knocked on my door.

Occasional use would add flavor and detail to the story. Excessive use, however, could be annoying.

just revising

Linda Adams said:

The only author I did notice--and get annoyed (see those dashes? )--was Mercedes Lackey. In several of her books, she used them for emphasis in an odd way, as an important sentence had been edited out that explained the emphasis. I always stopped and wondered why this word was being emphasized because it didn't make sense to be emphasized. I never got that from any other author.

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Depending on the series, there's quite a few reasons Misty does it.

One is to show a made-up word or term in her world. I need to take a look, but Robert Jordan does the same for the Wheel of Time series. Do I recommend it? Not really. I got the idea what the "Tayledras" were from the first paragraph that mentions them.

The second reason is to show someone either thinking or talking telepathically (which is very common in her work).

But I agree with using italics to emphasis on certain words (which Misty does in abundance as well as the first two reasons). It's a display of poor judgement that the writer is 'telling' what the reader needs to see as important, rather than 'showing' them.

Medievalist said:

Keep in mind that if you're looking at a book from a professional, commercial publisher, the author's opinion or decision regarding italics is probably not part of the issue; that decision is made by the copy editor, and typesetter, with consultation and reference to the house style sheet.

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This is true for nonfiction, but I I don't think this is true, at least in dialogue, for fiction. The choice of using italics to emphasise a word in dialogue is, from my experience, nearly always left up to the writer.

Now, should the writer decide to italicize every other word, I suspect any good editor or copy editor would start changing things, but by and large, this is a writer decision.

Editors and copy editors aren't as heavy-handed in these areas as many seem to think. Unless they have a real, solid, and substantial reason for changing something, they generally leave things alone.

And believe me, nobody messes with the way Elmore Leonard, Mary Higgins Clark, etc., writes dialogue. Nor do I think a style sheet even exists for it.

Good editors and copy editors never, ever, under any conditions, mess with a fiction writer's style. This is one of the big differences between fiction and nonfiction.

An editor or copy editor can certainly make suggestions, but they do not tell a writer whether or not a word in dialogue or thought can or can't, should or shouldn't be italicized, and a style sheet for doing so isn't even possible, in my experience. I don;t know how on earth one could even be written.

I do know it's nearly always the writer's choice, and with a writer of any size, an editor or copy editor won't even question it, let alone change it according to some style sheet.

I'm not a writer anywhere near the status of Elmore Leonard, but I write my own dialogue, and it isn't subject to in-house style. I write it to sound exactly the way that character would speak, and this includes the occasional italicised word, and no one messes with it.

Fiction copy editors are not there to change a writer's style, a writer's voice, or a writers method of writing dialogue. One that does won't last long, and you don't have to be all that big a writer to tell an editor or copy editor to leave such things alone.

Big, commercial fiction publishers are actually less likely to mess with such things than small, non-commercial publishers.

When a word is italicized for emphasis, it's nearly always the writer's choice, not the editor's or the copy editor's. Such things are a matter of the writer's style, and should be left alone. They nearly always are.

An editor or copy editor can question, but it's the writer's decision, and it's the writer who gets the credit or the blame.

Prosthetic Foreheads said:

Anyone else get very irritated when they are overused. And I don't mean when a whole sentence is italicized to differentiate a specific thought of a character from general narration. I mean when the author habitually italicizes a single word, whether in dialogue or narration, to emphasize said word, when 90% of the time it's completely unnecessary.

I don't even mind if they do it once every, I don't know, twenty, thirty pages. But what bothers me, is when, in that span of pages, there's as many (or more) italicized words as pages. And I'm sure I didn't notice before I started writing.

I definately haven't read as many novels as most people here- I'm pretty young (25) and mainly started ready novels after college- so I was wondering how many popular novelists do it. The authors I've most read are Elmore Leonard (a lot of his) and Chuck Palahniuk (several). Leonard italicizes some, but not annoyingly so, and I'm pretty sure Palahniuk doesn't at all. Other authors I've read one or two novels by are:

Patricia Cornwell, Mary Higgins Clark, Harlan Coban, Richard North Patterson, Robert B. Parker, Joe McGinnis, Crichton, Grisham, Tolkein, Vonnegut, and, a long time ago, Clancy. I don't remember if classics like To Kill a Mockingbird or Catcher in the Rye used italics or not.

The first time I really noticed was reading M.H. Clark Although it got on my nerves, when I finished it, I wasn't really surprised by it. I mean it struck me more as light reading and she does other stuff like head-hopping. Or, as one reader (but not writer) described, she's more superficial. But it really bugged me that R.N. Patterson did it. And I mean he really did it. Ex.:

"What do you suppose that was about?" Saul asked.

And this would often occur five or six times within a couple of paragraphs, sometimes twice in one sentence. Don't get me wrong, I thought the book was excellent. But that's why it bothered me so much more than when I was reading Clark. I mean, Patterson's was superbly plotted, he's careful to maintain POV, the characterization is very good, great story, maintains tension well. My mentor (who is a published author, teaches fiction, and reviews my work) calls it sloppy writing. I just call it annoying. But he's not sloppy in any other area, why here? The book was every bit as good as Cornwell's and she didn't overuse italics.

My questions: How common is this? Are certain popular novelists notorious for it? I guess the general public doesn't notice or care, but do you? Do citics, editors, and/or agents notice? BTW, my mentor said it's possible Patterson's editor suggested more italics. And do you watch out for it in your own work?

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For me, the short answer is whether or not the italics are well done and appropriate. Italics absolutely have their place in emphasizing a word. It can be overdone and overused, of course, but I find it seldom is.

I do think R.N. Patterson overdoes it, but it's difficult to quibble with the individual uses. There's nothing at all wrong with "What do you suppose that was about?" Saul asked. I can't think of any other way to tell the reader to emphasize the word "that," and if you listen to the sentence, the average speaker would emphasize the word "that."

The problem, I think, is only when this is done too often, and Patterson does do so too often.

Elmore Leonard, on the other hand, is about as close to perfect in this area as any writer I've ever read.

Italics is a tool, and like any good tool, it should be used. The trick is to know when to put this tool aside and pick up another.

...

Does the ... upset anyone here? I blame email... Since email the ... has come to life and is now taking over -- it could be a world domance thing... who knows?

Jamesaritchie said:

This is true for nonfiction, but I I don't think this is true, at least in dialogue, for fiction. The choice of using italics to emphasise a word in dialogue is, from my experience, nearly always left up to the writer.

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Well, yes, and no. It depends on how literate the writer is--and I suspect you're on the high end, based on your posts here.

There's an exceedingly popular author of horror fiction who, in one particular book, italicized every word that was borrowed from French directly into modern English.

For instance, she italicized resumé, cachet, pied-à-terre, cappuccino, and croissant.

None of these were allowed, quite properly, by the copy editor.

Most writers would realize that these words are fairly common in modern English and needn't be italicized.

Medievalist said:

Well, yes, and no. It depends on how literate the writer is--and I suspect you're on the high end, based on your posts here.

There's an exceedingly popular author of horror fiction who, in one particular book, italicized every word that was borrowed from French directly into modern English.

For instance, she italicized resumé, cachet, pied-à-terre, cappuccino, and croissant.

None of these were allowed, quite properly, by the copy editor.

Most writers would realize that these words are fairly common in modern English and needn't be italicized.

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Yes, that's what I meant about if the writer italicized every other word. There are a handful of fiction writers who simply get things so blatantly wrong that a copy editor must step in. These writers usually tell such a good story, and have such good characters, that all else is forgiven.

But such changes aren't made according to some in house style sheet. They're made because a copy editor looks at it and says, "Good God, what a mess! No one is even going to be able to read this."

I guess what I'm try to say is this. Copy editors will clean up a real mess when the writer has no clue what he's doing, but copy editors do not, in my experience, add italics for emphasis. So if you see italicized words in dialogue, the writer almost certainly put them there. It's the ones you don't see that belong to the copy editor.

maestrowork said:

I don't think italic itself is the problem. For me, it's the constant invasion of internal thoughts. It's like watching a movie when the character constantly breaks into voice over -- "and then this is what I'm thinking." Just get the story going already. The same goes with other excessive use of punctuation or stylistic choices such as em-dashes, semi-colons, etc. Once an author establishes that style and over uses it, it becomes a parody in itself.

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This just reached out and grabbed me by the throat. The first paragraph of my novel is almost all internal thought. I have it throughout the novel, not in large chunks like that, but I am now sure I need to revisit whether I have overused this device. I especially think after reading this that starting my novel out that way could be a turn off. I am also guilty of the em dash and semicolon thing, but I came to that conclusion yesterday. (and I thought I had done my last draft!)

So I have started doing a rewrite and have taken out that big chunk of internal thought that was italicized in the first paragraph . Now I am wondering if I should use italics for other spots of internal thought, though sparingly, or would that be inconsistent?

Eschew internal thought. Kill some people. Blow things up. Have a gratuitous sex scene every twenty pages or so. That's what editors are looking for.

caw.

That might be a worse mistake. It's a middle reader.

I have no problem with authors who use italics, elipses, dashes, or any device of that sort. I don't find them intrusive or bothersome. I chalk their use up to personal style. I do have a problem with authors who just write badly in general.