Used books...

maestrowork · Feb 6, 2006

It's a little disconcerting for me to see the flurry of "used books" listed on my Amazon.com page. Especially one that stated: "Like new, bookplate removed from inside the cover."

I just wonder, where do these people get the book? The one with the "bookplate removed" sounds very suspicious -- do potential reviewers (or book stores) take the ARCs they receive and turn around and sell them for profit? If so, that means they're ripping the publisher and me off, and that bugs me. I don't mind if people bought the book, read it, then sell it back for $. But to sell ARCs I think is questionable.

Any thoughts?

scfirenice · Feb 6, 2006

I think the whole used book market is a scam unless you are talking about overpriced text books. Of course this is coming from someone who also hopes to be published like you. I read an article in WD that some large book stores will sell new books "used" if they have been on the shelf awhile so they make some profit. I dunno.

James D. Macdonald · Feb 6, 2006

Used books don't bother me. I've already been paid for them.

Selling ARCs doesn't bother me either. There aren't many of them, and each one that's floating around produces possible new readers. The number one reason anyone buys any book is that they read and enjoyed a previous title by the same author.

veinglory · Feb 6, 2006

I can't say it bothers me either. I have yet to sell an ARC I reviewed but next time I move I probably will. Reviewers do it for the book, it becomes theirs to do with as they please.

Marcusthefish · Feb 6, 2006

When I worked for a major bookstore chain (a dozen years ago), there was a shelf of ARCs by the manager's desk, free for the taking. I took a few to read, but never sold them. But selling them would have been a major pain back then. It would be much easier to make some decent cash off them now.

I've read the argument that a robust used market actually increases demand for a product, because the buyer knows he can recoup most of his cost. I believe this works for larger ticket items (I used to buy a lot of guitar gear knowing that I could easily sell it if I didn't like it), but I'm not convinced it's true for books.

MTF

NeuroFizz · Feb 6, 2006

scfirenice said:
I think the whole used book market is a scam unless you are talking about overpriced text books.

My bolding.
Please don't assume the used book market has helped "starving students." One of the reasons textbooks took such a huge jump in price a couple of decades ago is the used book market. If one plots the "profitability" of a textbook over successive years, the second year the book loses about half of its worth, and by the third year, approaches "unprofitable." This is why authors are strongly encouraged (by publishing companies) to come out with a new edition every three years. While the used textbook market has helped some students, it has hurt just as many, probably way more.

Now place yourself in the shoes of a textbook author. It typically takes a couple of years to come up with a good, general-use college textbook. You would hope that your efforts would generate more than two or three years of royalties, right, considering the book may be of value for twice that time period? With the used book market, that would be about it unless you came out with a new edition. Yet, the new edition rarely contains enough new material to warrant the increase in cover price. This puts the author in a strange position, and is one of the main reasons I haven't thought seriously about writing a text. I'll save that for when my research program dries up, and then I still may pass...

Regarding the resale of books, I get "instructor's copies" of texts from publishing companies since they want me to adopt their text, particuarly for my large classes. Every semester, a person (not affiliated with any publishing company) comes by and asks if I want to sell any of my "instructor's copies." I refuse since I think this is unethical, not only on my part, but also on the part of the buyer, who will turn around and sell the books for profit even though they say, "Instructor Copy - Not for Resale" on the cover. I know some of my collegues don't see this the way I do.

Christine N. · Feb 6, 2006

Yeah, I see one of my ARC's for sale at my B&N.com page. Some review sites don't allow their reviewers to sell the books - I don't know who is selling this one of mine, but it could be an independent reviewer. I had a few of those.

DamaNegra · Feb 6, 2006

What's an ARC??

I like to buy all my books new, not used. First, because books aren't that expensive (except for textbooks, and they can be used for reference later). Second, because I like the smell of new books. And third, because it's not fair to the author or publisher. Three people are reading the book, yet the author gets paid for only one book and two other persons make a profit from it. I think it's like piracy.

James D. Macdonald · Feb 6, 2006

DamaNegra said:
What's an ARC??

Advance Reading Copy.

Hoody · Feb 6, 2006

Used

I have mixed feelings on the used book market, but for myself I have remedied the dilemma. If I enjoy an author enough to read several of their books, I buy them at the book store new. This allows me to show application, all through small, for the works that entertain me. But I buy used books of authors I have never read, which is a great way of discovering new or old authors.

veinglory · Feb 6, 2006

I buy used books because 99% of books can't be got new (out of print etc). I also use the library and don't consider that taking food from writers mouths.

Button · Feb 6, 2006

I buy used books with absolutely no shame. If I don't know who you are, I may not pick up your book at the bookstore, but I'd more than willingly try it if it is at a used bookstore or if I swapped for it.

It lets me try out new authors I have not heard about. If I like the writing, I'm more than likely to pick up the next book or recommend it to friends who may actually buy the book.

It's great for publicity. Yes, people go overboard and may stop buying from bookshops, but they would have done that anyways.

scfirenice · Feb 6, 2006

Neuro,
All I can say is 250$ for ONE medical book new is ridiculous. Even buying used I would spend over a thousand dollars in one semester. Tell me that is not insane.

veinglory · Feb 6, 2006

On one hand some texts lose economy of scale as they may sell only 1000 copies, on the other they have a 'captive market' and can charge pretty much anything they want.

James D. Macdonald · Feb 6, 2006

I've paid over $300 for a (slender) medical reference book.

Shadow_Ferret · Feb 6, 2006

I rarely buy new unless it's a brand new release of a book by an author I already enjoy immensely.

Books are outrageously priced IMO. I remember going into a bookstore as a teen with $10 and I could come out with around 8 books or more! Now I'm lucky if I can get one for that price.

Then people wonder why no one is reading any more.

maestrowork · Feb 6, 2006

Meanwhile, we all want to be writers and make $millions.

Jamesaritchie · Feb 7, 2006

Shadow_Ferret said:
I rarely buy new unless it's a brand new release of a book by an author I already enjoy immensely.

Books are outrageously priced IMO. I remember going into a bookstore as a teen with $10 and I could come out with around 8 books or more! Now I'm lucky if I can get one for that price.

Then people wonder why no one is reading any more.

You could also go into a grocery store with ten bucks and buy a heck of a lot more food than you can now. It's called inflation. So do you now buy used food? And I'll bet you make a heck of a lot more money per hour now than you could as a teen, too.

NeuroFizz · Feb 7, 2006

scfirenice said:
Neuro,
All I can say is 250$ for ONE medical book new is ridiculous. Even buying used I would spend over a thousand dollars in one semester. Tell me that is not insane.

Hi, S.

It is, indeed, insane and it sickens me. What I'm saying is that part of the reason for the huge increase in the cost of texts and medical books IS the used book market. The publishing companies will always make their profit, and if they have to compete with used books, they will just pump up the price of the new books and come out with new editions of their texts every three years.

I used to choose textbooks for my classes based on which ones were the best for the classes and for the students. Now, that is only one of two considerations. The other is the cost to the students. Every time I select a text, the publishing company tells me about the great accessories (study guides, anatomy coloring books, etc) they can shrink-wrap with the text, and sell at a bargain to the students (which usually pushes up the cost by at least 50% over that of the naked textbook). I tell them to shrink wrap their a$$e$. I also tell my students if they have access to an older edition of the text, or if they have another, similar text, they can use it--they will have to ask for help to get the page numbers for specific reading assignments, and they may have to borrow one of the new ones if there is updated material. By the way, the university libraries forbid us to put a required textbook for a class on reserve.

So, yes. I think the used book market has done an incredible disservice to students in terms of textbook prices. And no one sees it because there is always a used book selling for less than the new one.

Julie Worth · Feb 7, 2006

James D. Macdonald said:
Used books don't bother me. I've already been paid for them.

Even though they undercut the sales of new books? Would you feel the same about reselling ebooks?

Ronni · Feb 7, 2006

I only buy used books when I have no other options. Out of print, usually. Half-Price Books has a lot of books I read as a teen, and I can get them for 25 cents. I can't find them anywhere else, so I gobble them up.

Otherwise, I buy new. (I too, love the smell of new books!) If I am unsure about shelling out for a particular book, I check it out from the library. If I love it, I'll go and buy it.

Shadow_Ferret · Feb 7, 2006

Jamesaritchie said:
You could also go into a grocery store with ten bucks and buy a heck of a lot more food than you can now. It's called inflation. So do you now buy used food? And I'll bet you make a heck of a lot more money per hour now than you could as a teen, too.

Maybe so. But I NEED food. It's called a necessity. I don't need books. They are a luxury item. Entertainment. Like movies, which are too expensive. And sporting events.

And actually, I sure as hell don't make 8 times as much as I made as a teenager. I definately don't have the discretionary income I did as a teen.

Does it bother you to buy a used car, that GM or Ford don't get that money?

I also shop at resale stores because I think clothes are too expensive. Should I worry that Levi's aren't making money off of that purchase?

maestrowork · Feb 7, 2006

Until recently, I rarely buy used books. I love the look and feel of new books. Also I think it's good to support an author. I did buy a lot of used text books when I was a student, just because I couldn't afford the new ones.

I can see the two sides of argument, though. On one hand, the more people read a book and like it, the better it is for the author. On the other hand, every used book sold means a new book is not bought, or rather, the benefit is deferred (wait until I see this author's next book, then I *may* buy). Well, we could argue, though, that the person who buys the used books probably will never buy a new one anyway... and the more people read it...

But then, why not just give all the books away, if readership is all you care? Nowadays, people want free content. They turn on the TV or radio and go on the Internet and they expect everything to be free -- why buy a newspaper when you can get the news for free on TV and the Internet? Why buy a CD when you can download it for free (pirated copies)? Why buy a book if you can download a e-Book for free or go to the library?

Now what if someone buys one copy of the e-Book for $5, then turn around and let others download it for $1? Is that fair to the e-Book author?

Same idea. We might not see the problem with physical printed books because there's just one book. But when we move to the e-Book arena, suddenly things are not as sweet and innocent as it seems.

It all sounds good for the consumer and we all are consumers of one thing or another. But as a content provider, we may feel differently. Will it come a day when people just won't buy content anymore? So, for an author to make money, he will have to start selling advertisements? I know, on the back cover, instead of the synopsis and blurbs, sell a back cover ad for $10,000, then give the book away for free. Will we ever come to that model because people just won't buy anymore (why buy, if you can get it for free?)

maestrowork · Feb 7, 2006

Shadow_Ferret said:
I don't need books.

It makes me sad to hear you say that, especially as a fellow writer.

popmuze · Feb 7, 2006

Here's my ARC story.

One time I was trolling the Used Book sites and saw a notation about one of my books: "Autographed by the author: It's nice to be the one interviewed for a change."

Since I've used that phrase only approximately once, I immediately knew whose book it was. It was a lady who had interviewed me for a newspaper article and then asked me to autograph her copy of the book. And then she went out and sold it! Amazing. But I hear the same thing (in a way) happened to Bob Dylan.

On the other hand, if I'm out of copies of any of my books, it's good to know I can get some for as little as twenty-five cents apiece (plus three dollars postage).

Used books...

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