NEPAT Overflow

pconsidine · Oct 22, 2005

Given what I know (and that's not everything, to be sure), the conduct in question seems to far outstrip mere incompetence. The only way incompetence could reach this level is if someone were deliberately recruiting only the most incompetent people to run the operation.

The degree of criminality may vary, but even negligence is a crime.

Jean Marie · Oct 22, 2005

I post what I post because I've no reason to hide the truth. It's a very simple and clear agenda. It's part of what this board is about: to expose the immoral nature of PA in order to have information available to authors comtemplating signing w/ PA.

PA is not incompetent, they know exactly what they're doing: they're scamming, conning, stealing, any negative adjective you can think of. They're rotten scum, thieves, printers. I see you're new Moondancer, read some before passing judgement on the truth. Check out the condensed thread.

Jean Marie · Oct 22, 2005

I'm sorry, Morningmist, hard to keep up w/ new folk asking the same stuff over and over...

My book has/is being stolen!!!

PublishAmerica=Criminals

postshy · Oct 22, 2005

Good job, John....

You got right on the subject of PA. Blah, blah, blah. I'm out of here. Why waste my time and yours?

Morningmist, take a gander over on the NEPAT Board and read Dee Power's letter received from PA when she asked to have her contract terminated. Note the mention of returnability of their books, even as far back as then. Of course, they never tell lies - either they are stupid or we are.

Believe me I am not making up anything. I too got the full PA treatment, lies, cheats, "tone letters". I have enough documentation to fill a small trunk. AND THEY STILL OWE ME MONEY AND I HAVE PROOF OF THAT TOO.

postshy/Roberta

Jean Marie · Oct 22, 2005

and yet, another drive-by...

rekirts · Oct 22, 2005

Morningmist said:
There is another point to be considered as well. Should the matter ever reach court, the Judge is likely to take a dim view of the messages posted here by Jean Marie. And this could be a mitigating circumstance which could weaken her case, even although PA’s actions were PROVEN illegal.

Pure, pointless speculation. Are you a lawyer or a judge, Morningmist?

eqb · Oct 22, 2005

rekirts said:
Pure, pointless speculation. Are you a lawyer or a judge, Morningmist?

Neither, I would guess, but the phrasing of Morningmist's post reminds me very much of Lizzy's posts.

Jean Marie · Oct 22, 2005

Beth Bernobich said:
Neither, I would guess, but the phrasing of Morningmist's post reminds me very much of Lizzy's posts.

I thought that particular troll was banned

hmmm, minus the winkie things...

Dawno · Oct 22, 2005

OK, I got a kick out of this POD publisher's site I found - but first a disclaimer, I don't know if these guys are on the level or not. I won't get into an argument about whether you should pay up front to self publish or not. I am not an ex PA author. Your mileage may vary, past results do not guarantee future performance, void where prohibited by law, buckle up for safety.

I just thought it was interesting to note this company seems to have a certain slant to their web copy that addresses a lot of the things we say about PA here every day. (Italics below are mine)

XXXX is the only publisher that gives you the book design, branding, and distribution benefits of traditional publishing, and the access and control of print-on-demand publishing. XXXX employs the professional editing and customized book-design techniques of traditional publishing. Every book we publish is copyedited and has unique interior and cover designs. Only XXXX employs the branding and distribution methods of a traditional book publisher, allowing your book every advantage in the marketplace. In addition, XXXX spends its own marketing dollars promoting books qualifying for its "clever name here" program.

They also say on their site (again the italics are my editorial comments)

XXXX will:

like traditional publishers, publishes your book under imprints that will not disadvantage your book in the marketplace (dawno notes this with interest and says "hmmm")

like traditional publishers, encourages bookstores and other volume book buyers to carry its books by offering them full industry-standard discounts and accepting returns from them

designs book covers that grab the eye

spends its own marketing money on books that show promise

might be your stepping stone to a major traditional book publisher

is one of the least expensive ways to get your book published

ooh I love this one:

Buyers are particularly leery of books published under the names of print-on-demand publishers that do not copyedit their titles. Would you want your book published under the same imprint as other books that are full of spelling and grammatical errors? Don't let your book begin its life with the disadvantages of a bad imprint. XXXX publishes books under a variety of imprints that do not call attention to the self-published or print-on-demand aspects of your book. (And XXXX never places advertisements for its services on your book.) XXXX also maintains the quality standards of its imprints by copyediting every book it publishes.

they are very plain about what they do:

you grant us nonexclusive rights to publish your book only as a book, and only during the term of the agreement.

you are free to cancel or terminate the Agreement

you warrant that you are the sole owner of the work, and that you have permission to use any borrowed material

the copyright notice in the book will bear your name

your author's discount is 40%+ off the list price of your book

you will receive 20% royalty on publisher's print receipts

Rights
You retain all rights to your book. You are the copyright owner and your name will be listed on the copyright page of your book. Your contract with XXXX is nonexclusive, and you may cancel your agreement with us any time.

Now maybe this is all standard with POD publishers, I should do more research. I just couldn't help comparing what they said with the PA reality...
They provide a copy of their agreement on the site for you to read before you ever contact them. Nobody has said 'we like your book and we want to publish it' so you can read the terms dispassionately. Perhaps if PA authors could read the contract before they had the idea that a "traditional publisher" thought their work was deserving of a chance they would be less inclined to go with PA, which is of course what they want.

Oh, and lastly, you can compare the look of the two sites...PA vs these guys

Much easier on the eyes.

Posted as some food for thought, fodder for discussion.

Jean Marie · Oct 22, 2005

I've been turned into a severe skeptic. I did just look at their site, but, don't know enough to evaluate. They do have a pretty NBC logo?

And you know, Dawno, we sure could use some more of that fodder for discussion stuff

JohnJStephens · Oct 22, 2005

Morningmist said:
John’s right

(stops taking pills for five minutes)

Morningmist, f*ck off, you f*cking troll

(starts taking pills again)

Please, Jean Marie and others

D O N T F E E D THE F * C K I N G T R O L L

Jean Marie said:
So, quit the James Bond stuff and give the reasons.

Careful, Jean Marie. I'm being nice, although it's as painful as root canal work. Can't you do the same?

But to (partially) answer your question, it means that we return to the libel subject, one which I thought I was not allowed to discuss without incurring your displeasure.

So, do you want an explanation or not?

Jean Marie · Oct 22, 2005

I'm being nice too John. If you have no agenda, being nice shouldn't be a problem. And I honestly do want an explanation 'cause I'm at a total loss. I was told you're trying to trap me-is that true? Skip the libel stuff, we can agree to disagree on that. I'm not afraid of PA, they'd rather die than be dragged into a courtroom even if it was to defend themselves. I can't believe I just wrote that last bit-them defending themselves

God knows I could get rich selling tickets for that!!

What I want to know is: why are you so passionate about defending PA? And looking out for "us?" What's your angle/reason for being here? Why do you care what happens w/ PA? Why do you care if when speaking the truth, I call them criminals? Why do you care if I libel myself?

Dawno · Oct 22, 2005

Morningmist said:
Is it for the purpose of scaring off potential signers with PA? For if so, it could have the opposite effect.

Hey, potential PA signers, if you got here to "NEPAT overflow" for info about PA and aren't already scared off of PA I'm amazed! Morningmist, it's not that easy to find this thread unless you already know about it or have been lurking around AW for a while checking out numerous threads. I do note that you've posted once before on a thread about submitting to UK magazines so I'm for giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are here to honestly share your opinion. Unfortunately, a lot of folks with only one or two posts to their names have visited here or on NEPAT solely for the purpose of stirring up trouble.

There is another point to be considered as well. Should the matter ever reach court, the Judge is likely to take a dim view of the messages posted here by Jean Marie. And this could be a mitigating circumstance which could weaken her case, even although PA’s actions were PROVEN illegal.

This is your opinion, right? And you're certainly entitled to it, I don't object to that. The way in which it's given, however, makes me cautious. It's presented in such a fashion that it sounds as if you speak from personal legal experience or knowledge. If this is a fact vs. opinion, you should share more so we understand why. I'm assuming you're here to offer help so you shouldn't mind the request.

Has anyone considered the possibility that PA is merely incompetent, rather than being guilty of deliberate malfeasance? For given the sheer number of books they publish, slip-ups would be practically inevitable.

Oh dear. I think the 26,720 posts on the Neverending Thread might weigh in on that opinion. Also, James D. Macdonald (aka, Uncle Jim) has repeatedly given solid information that answers that question over and over. My opinion is that the complaints are a result of a deliberate business plan.

Hope to see you around more.

DaveKuzminski · Oct 22, 2005

John, here's something you should read in order to determine whether PA made some missteps or is outright deliberate in its actions:

From: [email protected]
To: Dave Kuzminski
Subject: PublishAmerica, Inc.
Date: Friday, November 03, 2000 6:04 PM
Dear Mr. Kuzminski,
You have posted information concerning PublishAmerica, Inc.,
publicly on your site. The information that you have posted
is a very small percentage of the whole picture of what
would generally be regarded as "recommended" or "not
recommended" for an author.
Of that small percentage, what you have posted is, by any
reasonable standards, inaccurate, incongruous, incomplete,
and therefore quite misleading.
I would like to entreat you to take this opportunity to
remedy the situation now, as we have responsibilities to our
employees, authors, and the industry in general to protect
our reputation.
We cannot rest easy until your error is corrected, and will
take significant action if necessary, including using the
domains that PublishAmerica, Inc. owns, as listed below, to
actively make our grievances public.
http://www.preditorsandeditors.com
http://www.preditorsandeditors.org
http://www.predatorsandeditors.com
http://www.predatorsandeditors.org
Thank you for your consideration.
- larry clopper, PublishAmerica, Inc.

Looks to me like they not only abused a trademark I own, but also attempted extortion.

eqb · Oct 22, 2005

Dawno said:
Morningmist, it's not that easy to find this thread unless you already know about it or have been lurking around AW for a while checking out numerous threads.

Actually, Morningmist has posted more than twice, but his/her posts from the NEPAT were moved over here along with the rest of the libel discussion.

(Which could be pure coincidence, I realize. It's just the similarity in tone and content that set me to wondering.)

Dawno · Oct 22, 2005

doesn't look like they had the nerve to go thru with their threats - all those links come up 'cannot be found' - makes it seem, in my opinion, that these people are all bluster.

Anyone remember the fear demon in that Halloween episode of Buffy the Vampire slayer? When they finally confronted him he was about 4 inches tall. That's what PA bluster reminds me of. And the fact that they have to hid behind the 'skirts' of sock puppets...well, that's just laughable.

Dawno · Oct 22, 2005

Beth Bernobich said:
Actually, Morningmist has posted more than twice, but his/her posts from the NEPAT were moved over here along with the rest of the libel discussion.

(Which could be pure coincidence, I realize. It's just the similarity in tone and content that set me to wondering.)

Serves me right for just looking at post count and checking 'other posts by' I keep forgetting you lose your posts when they get ported here. My bad.

Jean Marie · Oct 22, 2005

Here's a really stupid question: why when I click on my link-web page-it's all screwed up? But, when I type it in and click enter, it's okay?

Did a 4" sock puppet break my page?

Dawno · Oct 22, 2005

Jean Marie said:
Here's a really stupid question: why when I click on my link-web page-it's all screwed up? But, when I type it in and click enter, it's okay?

Did a 4" sock puppet break my page?

When you type it directly into your browser you might be seeing a cached copy - I'm looking at your page both ways and yep, it's a bit messed up...

Jean Marie · Oct 22, 2005

hmm, I was playing w/ it earlier

to delete something. Ooops. Guess I have to wait 'til Monday for it to be fixed.

Dawno · Oct 22, 2005

oh oh. Look for a forgotten < > or a missing " sign. It might not be hard to fix...after that, I'm outta suggestions - I still haven't finished my "Learn HTML in a Weekend" book I bought 8 months ago...

Jean Marie · Oct 22, 2005

I'll give it a shot-long weekend, huh?

Dawno · Oct 22, 2005

I haven't been able to put aside a whole weekend for just HTML - it seriously has lesson plans for the entire weekend! It's a good reference, I use the index mostly. But my favorite place is the HTML School on http://www.w3schools.com/

and, oh, we're seriously off topic! we're gonna end up on the NEPAT Overflow Overflow thread

Morningmist · Oct 22, 2005

"

JohnJStephens said:
(stops taking pills for five minutes)
Morningmist, f*ck off, you f*cking troll
(starts taking pills again)
Please, Jean Marie and others
D O N T F E E D THE F * C K I N G T R O L L"

Good gracious, I doubt that any pill would help here. How about a side of raw beef thrown at your cage?

Dawno · Oct 22, 2005

Beth Bernobich said:
Actually, Morningmist has posted more than twice, but his/her posts from the NEPAT were moved over here along with the rest of the libel discussion.

(Which could be pure coincidence, I realize. It's just the similarity in tone and content that set me to wondering.)

But, there aren't any ;-) !! It *couldn't* be Liz!

NEPAT Overflow

Too Adorkable for Words

calm waters ahead

calm waters ahead

calm waters ahead

NOooooo!!!

I write novels

calm waters ahead

Shiny!

calm waters ahead

calm waters ahead

Shiny!

Preditors & Editors

I write novels

Shiny!

Shiny!

calm waters ahead

Shiny!

calm waters ahead

Shiny!

calm waters ahead

Shiny!

Morningmist

Shiny!