NEPAT Overflow

[James D. Macdonald]

I have a friend who is a professional musician.

Every morning, when he wakes up, before his first cup of coffee, he goes to the piano and runs through The Virtuoso Pianist by C. L. Hanon (http://www.powells.com/biblio/62-9780793525447-0). Complete.

There is a lesson here.

[kullervo]

I just think every writer needs to read more. I certainly include myself in that. Even on rare days when I can sit and read from sunup to sundown, I wish I could have read more in the day. Read good writing. Read contemporary writing.

I like audiobooks a lot, and those let me "read" when I'm in the car or doing housework or yard work or whatever. But the point is that books can be had and consumed. Sometimes the time factor or the cost factor or the convenience factor can make getting books easier for some than for others, but they can be had.

Every good writer loves to read. Period. Every writer on their way to becoming good reads a lot. Period. It is absolutely necessary and never too late to start.

[Gravity]

Every good writer loves to read. Period. Every writer on their way to becoming good reads a lot. Period. It is absolutely necessary and never too late to start.

Quoted for absolute friggin' truth. A couple of years ago I had a conversation with a would-be writer at a conference who rather archly told me "the only stuff I ever read is mine; everything else is boring."

I just smiled and walked away, knowing if she didn't reverse that mindset--and fast--she'd never be commercially published. A year later I heard she went with some vanity pub for her opus, for which they nicked her for several thousand dollars. And that was that. Never heard further.

[Queen of Swords]

Sorry, but when you are writing a grocery list and other things every day, you sort of don't put commas and all the other things in one

Which is fine as long as all you want to write is a grocery list.

If, on the other hand, you want to write a bestseller (which you have stated more than once you want to do)...

[PVish]

An editor friend of mine says, "Let all your writing be your best writing."

[burgy61]

Thank you to the above poster. Contary to what people think here, that I am dumb , I am not. I have been out of school or over 25 years, and I promise you everyone forgets half of what they learned in school. Because unless you use it every day, then you forget it. But, for the record I made very good grades in English and most of my subjects. Sorry, but when you are writing a grocery list and other things every day, you sort of don't put commas and all the other things in one, and most people when you are writing a letter to just a general person, they don't care either. They don't care if it has a comma or whatever, as long as you have a? I send my stories to my bestfriend just to see what he thinks, about the story line itself. He has a college a degree and owns his business, but he still reads it and understands it he doesn't get critical at all, He just says what he thinks about the story line himself, and he will say that I need to add or delete whatever . He knows that it's the rough draft of everything and that I will work on it. He doesn't agree with what Pa did though to me at all, and said to try and get rights back if I could, but if not just forget about them. He can't show me how to market it because it's no where to market the book to, given to the fact we all know that no bookstores will let us put it in there or do booksignings, and he said do not give them a dime of money. but, I am working on looking at the books that I have at home.

Hi Wanda, I too am am ex-pa author and was able to get my rights back. It is possible to do you just need to keep at it, I wish you luck. I have been following your story here on AW and would like to comment on this post. I have been out of school for thirty years and only took to writing a few years back. I agree that you forget a lot of what you learn in school as time goes by, but I don't agree with you on the part about other people not caring about your writing. It does matter even if it is just a letter to a general person.

I never did very well in english classes, I knew I was going into the building business and didn't think english mattered. At first it didn't, I only worked for other builders. But when I began to deal with the clients themselves I realized that having the ability to communicate efficiently matters. The ads I wrote to try and find work where the first impression potential clients would get of me. I don't think many people would have hired me if my ads were poorly written with lots of mistakes in grammar and punctuation.

I don't think you're a dumb person and your posts show that. You have showed some improvements in you writing from your first post to these last ones. Your first posts where very hard to read and when posting on public forums your posts are your first impressions to other people. The comments made about your writing where given so that they are better able to understand you. If someone doesn't understand what you are trying to say they can't offer you any help.

Trust me the people here are trying to help you, they have given me more help then I can ever think about repaying. I spent hours here in this thread, http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6710. Uncle Jim will answer your questions about writing and give you advice and links to help you improve your writing. Do a search for your question first, if you don't find any answers then just ask. I don't post in the PA threads anymore, but this forum has a lot to offer writers and I hope you decide to stay.

Sorry for the long post and the continuing derailing of the thread.

(Disclaimer) This post is neither for or against PA.

[wanda45451964]

You got your rights back? I still have not heard from Miranda yet. it seems that when sending emails you have to send a email to her to someone else in another department and then they pass it on to her. So I, still have no clue if she even got it. I am just leaving PA alone. Going on to another publisher, after working on this manuscript for the next 8 months. I have no clue to how to get this 1 inch margin all the way around manuscript. One lady is helping me that comes here and she helped me with the format and some other things. Haven't heard from her since I found out about the margin deal. Now, what I thought that was going to turn into a novel for someone else, I have lost interest in so I am starting from scratch, pull my hair out and probably start all over thousands of times, but oh well whatever it takes to get one publsihed. Did Pa get really mad with you?

[wanda45451964]

Where do you post at?

[BenPanced]

You got your rights back? I still have not heard from Miranda yet. it seems that when sending emails you have to send a email to her to someone else in another department and then they pass it on to her. So I, still have no clue if she even got it. I am just leaving PA alone.
Keep at it. Several former PA clients here have told their stories where it's taken several dozen requests. It's not going to happen immediately, no matter who you send your request to at PA. If they do respond, however, be prepared for the inevitable Tone Letter, a demand for $X00 dollars to return your rights, or a combination of both.

[tlblack]

1 inch margin

Check your private messages.

[burgy61]

Where do you post at?

Mostly I lurk and read other posts in many of the other areas on the boards. I find by reading other people questions and the answers given quite helpful. I haven't been very active in my writing due to some health problems. Things are going better now and I plan on being more active here and in my writing.

[wanda45451964]

I sent a new email to Derek to ask him the same question, of course I have to in ject, all the email addresses that I have that worked last year, only one works now. And that is Craiggs and maybe Dereks. I know that Emily was there in july, not not more. I wander if they count on us buying our own books for their paychecks. Or do you think when they moved they down sized even more so.

[M.R.J. Le Blanc]

PA goes through employees almost as often as you go through underwear. So if there's a name attached to the email (as in <name>@publishamerica dot com) don't count on it working for very long. I'd just keep sending the same 'I'm not going to buy any more of my books, you're not going to make a penny off of me, please give me my rights back' email to like an info email address while I write and research.

[allenparker]

Just a thought that rolled through my brain. does PA have a formatting requirement at all? Could someone send in a manuscript that is 16 font mixed with all caps and then 1/4" margins? This reminds me of the odd way the emails come. Maybe they don't have guidelines for anything.

just a thought...

[M.R.J. Le Blanc]

They print books that fall apart.

Do you really think they care about formatting? ;)

[wanda45451964]

I know that when I submitted two dreadful long years ago, now they just said 12pt times roman. I did something stupid while ago, well actually not stupid but just to see what they would do, given they said they reject no one. Thats a lie. I sent in what was going to be my new collection to them, just to see what they would say, with a different name on email and all. Just wanted to see what they would write back. no intentions of finishing it at all, just wanted to see if they would come back with a offer along with contract and tell me all those hidden new prices that they have now. lets see what they do. I will keep sending those emails. Does anyone know how to send a email without your real name showing up? Ps. Derek is no longer there.

[JulieB]

As far as formatting goes, changing an entire Word document to 12 pt TNR takes little or no time.

[Sarashay]

I insist on proper spelling and punctuation when I send text messages. The whole "it's just the Internet!" argument makes me bristle, because all it does is reinforce bad habits.

[scully931]

I insist on proper spelling and punctuation when I send text messages. The whole "it's just the Internet!" argument makes me bristle, because all it does is reinforce bad habits.

That is SO true. The other day, I had my acting class doing an improv where each sentence had to begin with the next letter of the alphabet. We got to "U" and the girl began her sentence with the word "You." I chuckled and corrected her thinking it was just a quick slip up. No one in the class got it for awhile and their excuse was "in texting we just say 'u'!"
:e2thud:

[kullervo]

The best, most correct writing I've ever seen on the Internet? The Writer's Guild members-only forum, WriterAction. Either it's because we're all writers, or because we're all trying to show off to our fellow writers, but you won't see a spelling error on those boards in a year.

L

[White-Tean]

They print books that fall apart.

Do you really think they care about formatting? ;)

To be fair, some people can care about formatting and still get books bound perfect bound (bound with any number of pages, each glued as an individual) and, unsurprisingly, the book will have a higher than average likelihood of falling apart.

Although yes, if they did care about their product, they'd listen to their binders when they tell them (as all binders do) that perfect bound binding is not recommended.

I mean, I can understand why a company which had books bound perfect pound would be nigh on unreasonable about refunds, they'd go bloody broke from pages coming out. I don't recall ever seeing a commercially produced book that wasn't notch bound (bound in signatures of usually 8-16 sheets secured together, then notched into and glued making a much more robust book) or wiro bound, or heck even saddle-stitched, or bound-pocket (an Edo-period style) or gosh anything other than (shudder) perfect bound.

Sorry. I've studied publication design, perfect pound binding makes me rant.

[JulieB]

I insist on proper spelling and punctuation when I send text messages. The whole "it's just the Internet!" argument makes me bristle, because all it does is reinforce bad habits.

Or Twitter. I just saw one message that was so full of abbreviations and hashtags that I had no idea what they were saying. And of course, the final characters were, "Pls RT," meaning "Please retweet." Retweet what? A coded message? Someone's ego trip? Breaking news? I had no clue.

Gillhoughly's head explosions have nothing on what my noggin just did. And I'd cleaned my desk just the other day, too. Now I have to start over.

[merrihiatt]

I have bound my own books using the perfect binding method I did add staples before the glueing process, though. I haven't had a page fall out yet! Come to think of it, I think this is actually called an invisible bind, not a perfect bind, although the spine is flat just like a perfect bind.

[Sarashay]

Or Twitter. I just saw one message that was so full of abbreviations and hashtags that I had no idea what they were saying. And of course, the final characters were, "Pls RT," meaning "Please retweet." Retweet what? A coded message? Someone's ego trip? Breaking news? I had no clue.

Gillhoughly's head explosions have nothing on what my noggin just did. And I'd cleaned my desk just the other day, too. Now I have to start over.

Twitter is a slightly different animal because of the 140 character limit. I grudgingly restrain myself to a single space after periods, for example, or reduce "and" to "&" if I need to. But even then, I still insist on proper capitalization and punctuation. If I have something to say that won't fit without being abbreviated to incoherency, I've got a BLOG for that. (Heck, I can even do a quick tr.im URL for the blog entry and tweet THAT.)

[JulieB]

Twitter is a slightly different animal because of the 140 character limit. I grudgingly restrain myself to a single space after periods, for example, or reduce "and" to "&" if I need to. But even then, I still insist on proper capitalization and punctuation. If I have something to say that won't fit without being abbreviated to incoherency, I've got a BLOG for that. (Heck, I can even do a quick tr.im URL for the blog entry and tweet THAT.)

Twitter was built with the 140 character limit because of text messaging. They wanted to be able to deliver tweets to all mobile phones.

And yeah, I'm with you on the blog.

But dragging it back to topic, I'm just waiting to see a badly-edited book full of text speak. (And having typed that, I'm sure I'll be subjected to several examples.)

[Gravity]

LOL Jule-E u rok srsly

[Gravity]

Like that, you mean? :evil

[Steam&Ink]

Twitter was built with the 140 character limit because of text messaging. They wanted to be able to deliver tweets to all mobile phones.

And yeah, I'm with you on the blog.

But dragging it back to topic, I'm just waiting to see a badly-edited book full of text speak. (And having typed that, I'm sure I'll be subjected to several examples.)

In my country, it has been decided that final-year high school exams will not be marked down for using text speak, so long as it is clear what the student is trying to say.

I think it's fairly clear what the school boards are trying to say: We're striving for mediocrity in our schools.

My husband, a law professor, now tells me that first-year law students REALLY don't understand why there should be a "your" and a "you're". I supposed when you've spelt them both as "ur" for the past ten years, it does seem a little - shall we say - inefficient.

:Headbang:

[circlexranch]

In my country, it has been decided that final-year high school exams will not be marked down for using text speak, so long as it is clear what the student is trying to say.

All I can say is . . . OMG . . .

Hey! Quit throwing things, just kidding.

As for law school, my professors used to check for spelling and punctuation in the footnotes. Sigh, the english language appears to be in trouble . . .

[Steam&Ink]

As for law school, my professors used to check for spelling and punctuation in the footnotes. Sigh, the english language appears to be in trouble . . .

Yup. At my Law School (the same one where my husband now teaches) the Profs will put angry red circles around spelling and grammar errors. They're sticklers for precision, as lawyers have to be.
So it's really hard for them to see these first years who can't even structure a sentence, let alone an essay.


PS For those of you who are wondering - and I know you are - my husband was a postgraduate student when I met him at Law School. He didn't take up his teaching post until after I'd graduated ;)

[wanda45451964]

Welcome Dv bone, I am glad someone is on here that used to work at Pa. I sent in manuscript the other day just to see what would happen, if they really reject anyone because they say that they don't, which is a lie. they do. They did this one. Of course it could be because I ask Miranda for my rights back to my first book and to get out of the contract last week, still haven't heard anything, but they took the time to reject the manuscript. I figured they would accept now being they are charging for everything they do now, they could have made them 500.00 just for editing alone. Surprised they turned it down. So is Shawn and Stacey still there in the press release and cover design.

[James D. Macdonald]

I sent in manuscript the other day just to see what would happen, if they really reject anyone because they say that they don't, which is a lie. they do.

Actually, their claim is that they're highly selective, and reject a significant fraction of submissions. That is the lie.

They have always rejected some submissions, purely because there aren't enough hours in the day to print everything that comes in.

Once a manuscript hits their minimum required page count (and provided you sent it in before they reached their quota) you're in.

They've never been PublishEverything. Rather, they're PublishAnything.

(If it's a second book, and you didn't buy enough copies of your first, that's an instant rejection.)

[wanda45451964]

That's sort of what I figured also, that because I sent that email to get my rights back earlier in the week, and I am willing to bet that if I had have bought 300.00 worth of books they would be begging me to send to them.

[Sepisllib]

If $300 is the magic figure by which you can retrieve your contract on a particular book, it could worth it.

On the other hand, the damage is already done. I doubt that one would find anyone anywhere that would be willing to publish that book for the second round.

I believe that you would be far better off making the decision to "cut your losses" and move on. Consider the experience a learning one, as we all have throughout our life's experiences, and continue to write bigger and better.

My first one was disappointing in some ways, they asked for the finished manuscript and I supplied it to them. Apparently I made a mistake when submitting the "index" as a seperate attachment because when they did publish the book it was done without the index - even though I did supply it to them. Too late though.

As of now they have my 2nd one in a state of suspension. Apparently they are trying to decide whether or not to release it as after all this time Amazon or Barnes and Noble do not have it available. The only place it is available is through their own website where it may be ordered for $14.95 and with 99 cents shipping.

Technically they are within the contract, however one could argue it has not been made available to the majority of the public as there is no advertising.

Some could say that "you are shooting yourself in the foot" for posting here and commenting on such things. My answer to that is they have fired the shot at my foot and they have missed.

It's too bad that the company has elected to take such direction in their fanatical drive to reap undeserved rewards from "aspiring" authors because I am sure that some of the books would have widespread appeal and be very hot sellers had the company just been honest and forthright by publishing and treating the business properly. In effect they have "stolen" the dreams and profits from such authors, and yes, even themselves in their relentless drive for satisfaction of immediate greed.

Well - enough said for now. I can only say that lesson learned and the experience of publishing has served it's purpose for me. I have a total of 11 manuscripts finished and ready to go with one circulating to several agents and other publishers as we speak and two others in the hands of agents presently.

I am sure glad I found AWWC though - otherwise I may have gone through several more before I realized my fingers were being seared.

God Bless

Bill

[wanda45451964]

Oh, yeah and I am sure they look here quite often to find out how many of their authors are on to them and their scams. It is a lost book thats for sure, and yes, my book could have helped alot of couples, find the magic and spark again, had anyone seen it. Always put your contents page in the back of the dedication page. I have a idea for a publisher for you, so you can private message me if you would like to and I will tell you. They are really nice and easy to get along with and they are highly recommended.

[wanda45451964]

just thought that I would tell you that. I am working on the ideas for my next book now. I am doing the rough draft on paper for and designing the characters and town, and plot. Slightly stuck in betwen two different story lines, trying to get them tied together somehow. does everyone do this start on notebook paper and design your layout.

[circlexranch]

PS For those of you who are wondering - and I know you are - my husband was a postgraduate student when I met him at Law School. He didn't take up his teaching post until after I'd graduated

Now that's funny. Actually, your very precise, correct, and lawyerly use of the phrase, "where my husband now teaches" clued me in on the correct timeline!

[White-Tean]

I have bound my own books using the perfect binding method I did add staples before the glueing process, though. I haven't had a page fall out yet! Come to think of it, I think this is actually called an invisible bind, not a perfect bind, although the spine is flat just like a perfect bind.

Yes, adding staples would probably make it more secure than standard perfect binding. I'm not saying perfect binding will always fall out, obviously it won't happen everytime (or no one would do it), but it's not the industry standard for binding, because it's not considered robust enough.

Plus, notch binding is cool. It gives you an excuse to fill pages with lovely endpapers if your book doesn't come out as having enough pages yet. :D
I love decorated endpapers. :)

[Unimportant]

my book could have helped alot of couples, find the magic and spark again, had anyone seen it. ...I have a idea for a publisher for you, so you can private message me if you would like to and I will tell you. They are really nice and easy to get along with and they are highly recommended.
Wanda, I think Sepisllib writes for the Christian market, not the erotica market, so the publisher you've been considering submitting your next manuscript to may not be open to the kind of work Sepisllib writes.

[wanda45451964]

I am sorry I wasnt sure what he writes. I write between the two. But please take in consideration mine is nothing like vulgar or anything like that, I just keep it hot and sexy with out using the names that alot of people use. I still would like for it to be romantic,if anything I come up with other words than those.

[CatSlave]

This has nothing to do with the subject of this thread.

[wanda45451964]

that was to the above post. I was just saying that to let people know that i write between either one of them but I do not use those words when I write any kind of book.

[Stacia Kane]

I am sorry I wasnt sure what he writes. I write between the two. But please take in consideration mine is nothing like vulgar or anything like that, I just keep it hot and sexy with out using the names that alot of people use. I still would like for it to be romantic,if anything I come up with other words than those.


I wrote erotic romance for several years, and didn't consider "those words/names" vulgar or unromantic. Now I write urban fantasy, and often include sex scenes, and still use "those words/names" and still don't consider them vulgar or unromantic. Let's keep in mind that we have writers in this forum who write in all different genres, and use all different vocabularies, and be respectful of that.

[Sepisllib]

Wanda, I think Sepisllib writes for the Christian market, not the erotica market, so the publisher you've been considering submitting your next manuscript to may not be open to the kind of work Sepisllib writes.

Actually I have two different markets and the reason is because everything I have written, with two exceptions, has been from my past life. That past life was misdirected, self influenced, and heavy on the me focus. I searched myself for a long time trying to determine whether or not to proceed with the "old self" manuscripts and finally reached a conclusion.

I went back into the manuscripts one at a time and cleaned them up, so to speak, just a bit and they are now more acceptable (to me). All of them were written in the fall of 1993 so they are now 16 years of age. These manuscripts I am taking one at a time and submitting them to see where they go. If something comes of them then it's great.

The most recent one, I named "Coffee Creek," was actually started in 1993 and left in suspension with only a couple chapters finished. This summer I revisited that one and deleted nearly everything but the first few paragraphs and then went a different direction with it. It is now a Christian Romance theme and my wife has now read it through. She has told me it's the best of my work.

One of my "huge' issues is I tend to write by letting it fly. Spelling, grammer and everything suffers when I do it this way, however it's the only way I can maintain the story line and character interactions smoothly. I then print the entire paper out and then she reads it before editing and comments once in a while. They she takes her little red ink pen and begins making notes ----- lots of them.

However this all turns out, on my manuscripts, for publishing now or in any future direction there is one constant. Whatever income I may see from these efforts will be divided with the huge portion going to my church, work with children, and developing a small college for new ministers.

The reason for this is I am an older man and I really don't need the money from these things. With my health issues peeking into my life, heart valve replacement - quadruple bypass - non hodgkins cancer - and etc, it keeps me busy trying to contain it. Now I take our motorhome and we load it up and head south for the winter. But with WiFi and our Blackberry access we are never far from contact at any time and I continue my saga.

So - yes on the romance arena but the newer work is now focused heavily upon Christian Romance instead.

God Bless

Bill

[scully931]

Just a reminder to keep things on topic. :rulez

This is not the place to discuss genre. This is a section of the PA forum. There are specific threads for each genre on this board as well as tons of places to ask questions about your books.

BTW, that smilie at the top looks meaner than I do. :-)

[Eirin]

But...but...we're in the Overflow...

[James D. Macdonald]

Yep, we're in the Overflow. Three hundred and sixty-eight pages and counting. Really, you can discuss anything you want, but be advised that no one will be able to find it later. And next time I have to move off-topic stuff in out of another thread it'll get dumped on top.

Hey, want some entertainment? Read this thread from the beginning.

[Queen of Swords]

Hey, want some entertainment? Read this thread from the beginning.

Read any of the long PA threads from the beginning. This weekend I dipped into the Old NEPAT and discovered that PA once established something called the Mille Club (http://publishamerica.com/milleclub/) for those authors who sold over a thousand books. PA was supposed to send you flowers once you were a member of the Mille Club, although one of the very few authors eligible reported not receiving her bouquet.

The Mille Club no longer seems to be in use, which may be a good thing, because it kept reminding me of the Mile High Club.

[Jersey Chick]

And that's exactly what I thought you wrote - I had to reread the post.

well, guess we know where my mind is today.... ;)

[Eirin]

The Mille Club no longer seems to be in use, which may be a good thing, because it kept reminding me of the Mile High Club.

Come to think of it - PA did fly a couple of authors to Iceland on a promo-tour...

Right, I'll shut up now :D

[wanda45451964]

Bet that was cold in more ways than just the temperature.How can you sell a book in Iceland.

[pink lily]

Bet that was cold in more ways than just the temperature.How can you sell a book in Iceland.
Yeah, it's probably too cold for them to read there. I mean it's Iceland, they don't need books. If they had any books, they would probably just use them as kindling for the fires in their igloos.

[wanda45451964]

That was a joke, I didn't think Pa would fork over that much money to send anyone anywhere in the USA, much less to another country.

[pink lily]

That was a joke, I didn't think Pa would fork over that much money to send anyone anywhere in the USA, much less to another country.
PA probably did not pay for anyone but their own staffers to attend. The trip was marketed as a "convention." People who go to conventions usually have to pay their own way, unless they are staffers who are compensated for their work through free travel/hotel.

http://www.publishamerica.com/conventions/index.htm

PA was at the 2006 BookExpo America; the prices are not listed for the 2010 convention, but you can get great "low rates": http://www.bookexpoamerica.com/Hotel-Travel/Affordable-NYC/

[smsarber]

Greenland is icy... Iceland is green. But it's the thought that counts.

[James D. Macdonald]

The Iceland trip was during the brief existence of PublishIcelandica (no, I'm not making that up).

It was during the time Willem was married to an Icelandic lady.

[pink lily]

The Iceland trip was during the brief existence of PublishIcelandica (no, I'm not making that up).

It was during the time Willem was married to an Icelandic lady.
Oh, how ethical.

[LexiCan]

The Iceland trip was during the brief existence of PublishIcelandica (no, I'm not making that up).


It's actually still on their web site. If you go to the site map you'll see it listed top left

[Jersey Chick]

Greenland is icy... Iceland is green. But it's the thought that counts.
Yeesh, how do you make that mistake??

Upon landing in Iceland - "Hmm... it's green here. But, I'm calling it Iceland - yanno, just to mess with the tourists."

Upon landing in Greenland - "Damn it, Iceland's already taken!!!!"

Light bulb goes off

"I know - heeheehee - I'll call it Greenland! Yanno, just to mess with the tourists."

[allenparker]

Yeesh, how do you make that mistake??

Upon landing in Iceland - "Hmm... it's green here. But, I'm calling it Iceland - yanno, just to mess with the tourists."

Upon landing in Greenland - "Damn it, Iceland's already taken!!!!"

Light bulb goes off

"I know - heeheehee - I'll call it Greenland! Yanno, just to mess with the tourists."


It was probably,
First Guy "Yes, Iceland. That'll keep the Vikings from coming over and stealing our wives back."

Second Guy "Won't they come anyway? They still need women."

First Guy. "Nope, I named that slab of ice Greenland. Wait till they land there. "

[ChristineR]

It's believed that Greenland was given the name to encourage colonists to go there. Really, whether it's true or not, that's a very old belief, that Erik the Red misnamed it to encourage people.

[Richard White]

Not to mention, in Viking times, there were forests on the coast of Greenland.

Until the Little Ice Age started and recovered the island in glaciers.

[Jersey Chick]

and yet, through it all - PA still sucks...

[Christine N.]

And it's not exactly WARM in Iceland, either. My aunt lived there for two years. She bought us lots of thick sweaters from there :).

And the sun only comes up about twice a year. LOL.

Back to your regularly scheduled PA thread.

[wanda45451964]

Did you get the lateset email from Pa, they are going to change the text in our books for is and then give us 40$ off. i thought when the final draft was done that was it. so how can they change the text.

[pink lily]

Did you get the lateset email from Pa, they are going to change the text in our books for is and then give us 40$ off. i thought when the final draft was done that was it. so how can they change the text.
Wanda, I know I've said this before, maybe you missed it. Every email from PublishAmerica is a lie, a scam, a fraud. It is fake. It is a load of baloney. They can say whatever they want because their victim/authors signed a contract saying "you can do whatever you want."

Please, don't act so surprised when PA sends out a new lie, a new scam, a new "program," a new "special offer" or a new "discount." The offers are designed to get PA victims to send money, period. All the emails are lies. I would not be surprised if a new person to AW were incredulous by all of this, but you've been here long enough to know that PA can not be trusted, and all of their offers are scams.

[wanda45451964]

oh I know it's a lie, It's just surprising to me the lengths they go to with all these fraud emails. Is this how they get paid now? well by all the authors that do fall for these frauds. i guess they have nothing better to do now.

[pink lily]

oh I know it's a lie, It's just surprising to me the lengths they go to with all these fraud emails. Is this how they get paid now? well by all the authors that do fall for these frauds. i guess they have nothing better to do now.
This is how they have always gotten paid, this is their business model, it has worked for them for all of these years.

[merrihiatt]

Wanda, did you mean 40% off, rather than 40$ off?

PA can change the text at any time because books are only printed when someone orders a copy (POD = Print On Demand).

I'd also like to note that many people who post here on the PA section of the forums do not have contracts with PA, they are simply trying to help folks avoid falling into PA's trap by explaining PA's business model and how a real publisher operates.

And, one more thing, you're only a victim if you allow yourself to be. If you've signed a contract with PA and regret doing so, learn from the experience and make forward motion by continuing to write, learn the craft and read, read, read!

[wanda45451964]

yes thats what i meant I didnt have my glasses on. God the lies they come up with now. They tell you when you turn in your final draft before they add more words or mistakes to it that is, that it cant be changed and now they come up with this fraud. Guess, they have to make up 40 hours a week doing something in their new building.

[Aidan Watson-Morris]

Why is that when I sent a full-of-gramar-and-spelling-errors query to tons of agencies and publishers, only PublishAmerica asked for a follow-up?

Answer: PublishAmerica is where desperate authors are sucked in. Google "PublishAmerica" and maybe you can make it in time.

[Capricornus]

Does anyone take PA seriously? On that note, if I broke into and pillaged a PA office, who would genuinely care and want to stop me? Anyone?

[Aidan Watson-Morris]

Stupid thing to say. Edited.

[scully931]

@Capricorn: You'd be sued and people from PA claiming to be police would be sent to your house to threaten you, but in the author community you'd be worshipped as that guy who threw his shoes at George Bush. (THANK YOU, THANK YOU)


Not everyone feels as strongly about Bush as you do. Some people - believe it or not- dislike Obama as much as you appear to dislike George Bush. Not saying I feel especially strong either way. But, best to remember we have writers of all political backgrounds. :-)

Just a friendly reminder that it is sometimes best to keep political comments to an off topic or political area of the boards.

Personally, I have no respect for someone throwing their shoes at anyone. Nor would I have respect for someone breaking into an office and ransacking it. :Shrug:

[James D. Macdonald]

Does anyone take PA seriously? On that note, if I broke into and pillaged a PA office, who would genuinely care and want to stop me? Anyone?

Frederick, MD, police department would take a dim view of it.

And I'd say it would be a stupid idea.

[DaveKuzminski]

Does anyone take PA seriously? On that note, if I broke into and pillaged a PA office, who would genuinely care and want to stop me? Anyone?

There's nothing there worth pillaging. Besides, PA's owners are more afraid of retaliation against themselves based on them having armed guards at the first and only PA convention.

[wanda45451964]

They would accept a manucscript for one like that because they plan to add more errors and everything else to it, and charge you 99.00 for it. That's why Pa accepts anything.

[Gillhoughly]

There's plenty worth pillaging in a PA office: computers, printers, office supplies, furniture, and if you have a big enough truck, a POD machine.

The damage or theft of which is a felony. Please don't bother.

PA is not worth it.

Besides, the Stooges will just use the insurance money to by more stuff. Perhaps they'd issue a press release along the lines of "Hey, we're so successful that people are jealous!"

They have no reason to stop.

They've got an easy way to make tons of cash, a bottomless supply of student labor in a depressed area with a high jobless rate, NO scruples at all, and operate between the cracks in the law as happily as any colony of termites hidden in the walls of a house.

So long as writers desperate to get published fail to do proper research, ignore the warnings of others, and fall for the "too good to be true" flag-waving, we-love-Jesus, you-can-be-on-Oprah-and-get-a-movie-deal bait, the Stooges will continue their operation.

For the most part they DO honor their end of their screw-the-writer contract, relying on the fact that those signing it have no idea what a real literary contract should look like and only twig when it's too late.

PA trusts that most PA victims don't have the cash to go to court. Their victims are usually too humiliated at being taken and just want to put the experience behind them.

So congrats Willie, Larry, and Miranda. You're a threesome made in hell and proud of it, I'm sure, but we all know you're nothing more than bipedal leeches.

(At least regular leeches have a place in the ecosystem!)



Giving another writer the chance she deserves!
http://www.mindoverchatter.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/facing-leeches.jpg

[Capricornus]

Look, guys, I hate to rekindle an old flame, but I genuinely want to apologize for what I said concerning PA. Yes, they're idiots who rarely get books sold, and yes, it's a waste of money to use them for publishing. But that doesn't give me the right to joke around about pillaging their offices.
My apologies, men and women of AbsoluteWrite. May I come in once more?

[Eirin]

But that doesn't give me the right to joke around about pillaging their offices.


Oh, I don't know. A good, old fashioned viking raid might be amusing. Not sure you'd find someone to ravish, though. Miranda would only give you something nasty.

[Gillhoughly]

Okay, out of the pool with the jokes about rape-- "ravishing" makes it sound not so bad, but I have no sense of humor about that crime, whatever it is called. Too many of my friends have been real life victims. Let's take a breath and back off.

Name call if you like, people, but let's draw a line on the side of common sense.

Capricornus, stay on AW.

Erin, I love you and adore your icon, it is awesome and makes me think of wonderfully wicked Dorothy Parker, but like Austin Powers says, "Oh, behave." ;)

We now return to regularly scheduled wankage of PA and their slimy business practices.

[Eirin]

You right, of course, Gill. My apologies.

[Gillhoughly]

.


:Hug2:

[scully931]

Look, guys, I hate to rekindle an old flame, but I genuinely want to apologize for what I said concerning PA. Yes, they're idiots who rarely get books sold, and yes, it's a waste of money to use them for publishing. But that doesn't give me the right to joke around about pillaging their offices.
My apologies, men and women of AbsoluteWrite. May I come in once more?


Of course! :D
Maybe I'm paranoid, but I always worry about someone joking about something illegal. What if it actually happened and then they found your posts?!

Maybe I've seen too many X-Files episodes. BUT IT COULD HAPPEN! :eek:

[wanda45451964]

yes, gill you are so right about that, rape is nothing to joke about, and neither is domestic violence. They both happen though sadly more than we think. the best I can say about Pa is that they deserve to close down. I mean really none of us are getting paid. It looks like that will be the only way out ot our 7 year contract.

[Gillhoughly]

Wanda, the matter above is closed.


If you want out of your PA contract, then work for it.

Log off Absolute Write and send PA a certified snail mail politely requesting it, citing lack of sales and you being unable to promote your book as a good reason to just let it go.

Be as formal as possible, brief, and professional.

Use the standard business letter format and spell check.

http://jobsearchtech.about.com/od/letters/l/bl_block_p.htm

You can find the contact information for their snail mail address on their website.

I suggest addressing it to Larry Clopper.

[BenPanced]

What Gil said.

And it'll get a little expensive, but do this regularly. Once every other month. As it gets closer to the end of your contract without a response, monthly. Be relentless and don't let up. Ignore the tone letters and demands for an apology; eventually, they may crack just get to get you to stop.

[Aidan Watson-Morris]

ANYWAY...back to PA...

[James D. Macdonald]

Everyone, please try to use correct English in everything you write.

That includes private emails, messageboard posts, and, yes, even grocery lists. Consider it practice for your formal, commercial writing.

Rightly or wrongly, folks do judge you by the way you express yourself. They make judgments about your education, abilities, and, yes, even intelligence.

So ... it's okay to re-read and correct posts before you hit the button to make it public. Really, it is.

[merrihiatt]

If you notice an error in your post later, you can always hit the edit icon/button and make any changes necessary. It's easy to do. I use the edit feature a lot! hee hee

Ha! Case in point: I just edited this post to change icon to icon/button to (hopefully) make it more clear.

[LexiCan]

I agree with James. If you cannot construct a well written post, how will anyone ever believe you can construct a well written manuscript.

[Gravity]

I hope the poster takes this to heart, and not as just us being snarky. Really, I do.

[Susan Gable]

I hope the poster takes this to heart, and not as just us being snarky. Really, I do.

Hey, there's nothing wrong with some good snark once in a while. :evil

Especially after other approaches have failed.

Susan G.

[James D. Macdonald]

Stop the violence!

http://www.sff.net/people/doylemacdonald/PA_kitten.jpg

[triceretops]

Whenever you hear a bell ring, it means a writer has found a great commercial publisher.

Tri

[circlexranch]

OMGH - that is one of the best uses of that graphic I have ever seen. I've visited it twice just to laugh . . . and so true as well!

[xXFireSpiritXx]

could someone please repost the link to that hilarious chapter by chapter review/analysis that was done of Night Travels?? A link was posted before but I cannot find it!

[Unimportant]

http://crevette.livejournal.com/113659.html

[JulieB]

could someone please repost the link to that hilarious chapter by chapter review/analysis that was done of Night Travels?? A link was posted before but I cannot find it!

I think you mean this (http://crevette.livejournal.com/113659.html).

[dgiharris]

I think you mean this (http://crevette.livejournal.com/113659.html).

Atlanta Nights has nothing on this book.

Literally made my eyes hurt reading a few of those sample paragraphs.

Wow. Talk about craptastic

Mel...

[brainstorm77]

Oh! My freakin eyes for reading that.

[kaitie]

Be nice, guys. Atlanta Nights was a sting. As far as I can tell, this one was a book the author was legitimately proud of and had taken seriously. I know it's not well written, but it would have never seen the light of day had the author not been duped by PA. For us to sit around and mock it is just cruel.

[dgiharris]

Sorry, this isn't 1st grade where we give E's for effort.

This is the harsh cruel world. Just as I have no problem ripping on Micheal Bay for some of the craptastic stuff he's done (like Terminator 4), I have no problem ripping on an author that writes complete and utter garbage for sell.

Now, if he posted in SYW, they sure, i'll be as helpful as possible. Or if he wrote a vanity book for his own personal use, then sure, i'd be polite. But the second you write something for the mass market and slap a price tag on it, you are fair game IMO.

As for OP subject, with the internet and the availability of a BILLION plus pictures, i'm sorry, I think using the same stock photos or concept over and over and over again is inexcusable.

Now, I don't fault 'simple' covers, you know, a monocolor with just the title.

But if you are going to use a photo, for crying out loud, with all the pics out there, it just shouldn't be that hard to find a unique one that pertains to the book.

Mel...

p.s. and I wasn't dissing Atlanta Nights, that is the funniest damn thing i've ever read in my entire life. Granted, I could only read about 3,000 words of it (mostly jumping around to appreciate the genius of it). That sting was so awesomely awesome that it fills me with a warm fuzzy everytime I think about it :)

[CaoPaux]

Be nice, guys. Atlanta Nights was a sting. As far as I can tell, this one was a book the author was legitimately proud of and had taken seriously. I know it's not well written, but it would have never seen the light of day had the author not been duped by PA. For us to sit around and mock it is just cruel.A noble sentiment, but considering she used Lulu to issue an extended "rewrite" under a new title, I don't think we can blame PA for unleashing it on the world. (Crevette reviewed the first eight chapters of the Lulu version, too, beginning here (http://crevette.livejournal.com/240200.html). NSFW.)

[kaitie]

Alrighty, I guess in that case it's fair game.

[merrihiatt]

I thought AWers were supposed to adhere to a standard of respecting our fellow writers. I don't think it matters if we think a writer writes well or not, we can still show them respect and common courtesy.

[brainstorm77]

Merri have you been to the rest of the board lately? Surely you have seen the threads on Brown, Meyer etc? And you know what? My eyes actually did hurt after reading that link. How the person reviewing it read the whole book, I will never know.

[Christine N.]

However there is something to be said for someone who puts their work out in the world for consumer use. You need to be ready for criticism. That's not to say it shouldn't be constructive criticism, but there are times when you just...can't.

It doesn't make the author less of a person, just someone who needs a few lessons in writing.

[kaitie]

I still feel like there's a bit of a double standard. I mean, let's say it was one of our guys from here. Let's say Kelly's book was the equivalent to the Da Vinci Code. Sold millions of copies, but most of the people here thought the writing sucked and couldn't understand why it could be that popular (Not saying it is of course, this is a hypothetical). Would people make the same sort of comments they do about Dan Brown if it was her? Or would they tone it down to be polite and respectful?

What if the author of the Night Elves book had been a member here who had chosen to self-publish. Would anyone feel just as comfortable mocking it in that case?

Or here's something else to think about. What if the author of that book was looking to improve his craft and decided to come here to learn more about writing. Would any of us feel comfortable about the fact that he could go through old posts and see people here mocking him?

The line between an honest review and making fun of someone isn't all that fine. And I remember the author of another of these famous for sucking balls books (not a PA one, if I remember correctly). It was an old fantasy story whose name I can't recall now that had been written by a sixteen year old and published (iirc) as a serial in a magazine. You can still find copies of it online where it is regularly mocked. The author of that one was so devastated by the backlash and the mocking that he gave up on writing.

Maybe I'm just too empathetic for my own good, but it still makes me uncomfortable. Even if you read something sometimes and enjoy its badness, making fun of it in a place that's supposed to be a welcome home for writers at all stage of the craft seems off to me. I could even see it influencing new people who come along and are afraid their work will be treated with the same sort of reverence in the SYW area. Just my opinion.

[allenparker]

I thought AWers were supposed to adhere to a standard of respecting our fellow writers. I don't think it matters if we think a writer writes well or not, we can still show them respect and common courtesy.


I think all of us have a special place where we hide writing samples and books we never want to see the light of day.

Any of you want to send out your unedited and thoroughly trunk-worthy novel to let the group critique and offer comments about?

This author has been trapped in what she thought was a good publisher, given an opportunity to have her manuscript made worse in the grinder, and then had a person offer a critique which was sent to a bunch of people. Then, on her own, she improved her writing, using what is probably the only honest review she received. Though it still wasn't great, the reviewer said it was better.

Isn't she what the PA boards are about?

[anonym.]

Merrihiatt, Kaitie, allenparker: exactly what y'all said.

How many of those who are ripping this author's work (from 2-6 years ago) would be willing to post their worst writings on here (aside from SYW) just specifically to be ripped on themselves (by others) for the fun and entertainment value of it? Posts like these just P***** me off. I'm sorry, but they do.

And Meyer and Brown, etc. don't care what people say about them because they're millionaires with millions of fans. Of course they wouldn't care. But those who aren't established and are still working toward goals would care about it; unless they're robots without feelings.

JMHO Thankfully, most on AW have hearts. And we could all use lessons on writing, but poking fun doesn't help with that. Does it?

[James D. Macdonald]

Atlanta Nights has nothing on this book.


One of the reasons we wrote Atlanta Nights ourselves was to avoid picking out some terrible PublishAmerica novel, pointing to it and saying, "Wow! This book sucks!"

[CaoPaux]

Heh. Yeah.

I still feel like there's a bit of a double standard. I mean, let's say it was one of our guys from here. As it happens, the author is/was a member here, and she not only ran the first chapter of the rewrite through SYW, but got a couple betas here.

IOW, yes, it's a fine line easily crossed. Probably something for a different thread, but it'd be interesting to discuss the point at which self-/vanity- published authors stop being victims and become responsible for their output.

[DeadlyAccurate]

Sorry, this isn't 1st grade where we give E's for effort.

This is the harsh cruel world. Just as I have no problem ripping on Micheal Michael Bay for some of the craptastic stuff he's done (like Terminator 4), I have no problem ripping on an author that who writes complete and utter garbage for sell sale.

There's no reason to call a writer's work "complete and utter garbage." It's unnecessary and unhelpful. And this isn't a thread for the review of the writer's work, so I don't understand why anyone would feel the need to do so here.

[Queen of Swords]

And this isn't a thread for the review of the writer's work, so I don't understand why anyone would feel the need to do so here.

Thank you. I feel the same way.

I don't have a problem with tearing into badly written published novels - but I do that on a website meant for that purpose, where the authors are highly unlikely to stumble across it.

[kullervo]

I do think this goes over the line. We need to remember that PA and Lulu books have not been legitimately published. They are first efforts and slush and had their authors stuck to legitimate publishing houses they would never have seen the light of day. The last thing they need as they grow as writers is to have their early efforts stomped. There but for the grace of the publishing gods, and all that...

Now someone like Meyer or Brown, who were commercially published; those folks are fair game, as are their readers. And I'm afraid no amount of criticism will put them off.

[scully931]

There is a huge difference between agreeing something wasn't ready to be published and pointing and laughing. Comments such as it made your eyes bleed, your head exploded, it was craptastic, etc. just put this message board in a league with all the others. I thought we strived for better.

[K.L. Townsend]

I think the difference is that when we criticize writing by Brown or Meyer it's from something that a publishing house, respectable ones at that, deemed worthy for commercial consumption. With PA books, we general see the writers as people who have been suckered into a scam.

So while I feel comfortable in tearing apart a published book from a Brown or Meyer, I feel like other people aren't on equal footing to begin with.

[James D. Macdonald]

I think we can agree that publishing anything that comes in the door doesn't do anyone any favors.

[dgiharris]

I apologize for being a bastard on this subject.

When someone is trying to better themselves then you will discover I'm one of the most supportive people on here. Most of my crits (to include a few AW manuscripts) are line-by-line and I have no problems being supportive and walking a newbie through several revisions until they get it right.

Unfortunately, I just have very little patience with PA types. The lion's share of the blame belongs to PA of course, they are con-men. But the mark bears some blame. I equate falling into the PA scam with sending one of those Nigerian spammer's your bank account information in the hopes they send you a check for $1M.

If the writer took 5 minutes to research the publishing world, they'd discover PA was a huge scam. In fact, many PA writers have researched the publishing world and just didn't like what they found--namely the constant rejections. So they retreated to the one place where they would not be rejected and they pay through the nose for that privilege.

Call me an A-hole, hard ass, bastard, whatever. But these people do not have my sympathies any more than someone sending a spammer their bank account info.

Mel...

p.s. Not to say all self-publishing is bad. There are definitely times when one should go that route...

[merrihiatt]

Merri have you been to the rest of the board lately? Surely you have seen the threads on Brown, Meyer etc? And you know what? My eyes actually did hurt after reading that link. How the person reviewing it read the whole book, I will never know.

No, I haven't. If someone was asked to a review a book, I can certainly understand why negative comments might be made (especially if they are specific as to why the book didn't hit the mark). It's the personal comments that feel a bit out of place and unnecessary.

[brainstorm77]

I apologize for being a bastard on this subject.

When someone is trying to better themselves then you will discover I'm one of the most supportive people on here. Most of my crits (to include a few AW manuscripts) are line-by-line and I have no problems being supportive and walking a newbie through several revisions until they get it right.

Unfortunately, I just have very little patience with PA types. The lion's share of the blame belongs to PA of course, they are con-men. But the mark bears some blame. I equate falling into the PA scam with sending one of those Nigerian spammer's your bank account information in the hopes they send you a check for $1M.

If the writer took 5 minutes to research the publishing world, they'd discover PA was a huge scam. In fact, many PA writers have researched the publishing world and just didn't like what they found--namely the constant rejections. So they retreated to the one place where they would not be rejected and they pay through the nose for that privilege.

Call me an A-hole, hard ass, bastard, whatever. But these people do not have my sympathies any more than someone sending a spammer their bank account info.

Mel...

p.s. Not to say all self-publishing is bad. There are definitely times when one should go that route...

Ditto on all of this :)

[Christine N.]

How many of those who are ripping this author's work (from 2-6 years ago) would be willing to post their worst writings on here (aside from SYW) just specifically to be ripped on themselves (by others) for the fun and entertainment value of it? ?

Depends - did I put it out there for public consumption? As in, did I think it good enough for people to buy it?

It really does make a difference. Not that people shouldn't at least be a little kind.

[xXFireSpiritXx]

I feel bad because me asking for the link sparked all of this...sorry

[kaitie]

I apologize for being a bastard on this subject.

When someone is trying to better themselves then you will discover I'm one of the most supportive people on here. Most of my crits (to include a few AW manuscripts) are line-by-line and I have no problems being supportive and walking a newbie through several revisions until they get it right.

Unfortunately, I just have very little patience with PA types. The lion's share of the blame belongs to PA of course, they are con-men. But the mark bears some blame. I equate falling into the PA scam with sending one of those Nigerian spammer's your bank account information in the hopes they send you a check for $1M.

If the writer took 5 minutes to research the publishing world, they'd discover PA was a huge scam. In fact, many PA writers have researched the publishing world and just didn't like what they found--namely the constant rejections. So they retreated to the one place where they would not be rejected and they pay through the nose for that privilege.

Call me an A-hole, hard ass, bastard, whatever. But these people do not have my sympathies any more than someone sending a spammer their bank account info.

Mel...

p.s. Not to say all self-publishing is bad. There are definitely times when one should go that route...

Here's my problem with it. A) Yes, true of some people, but how do you know which ones? How do you know which ones got that first acceptance and thought they were going to be published and their work was awesome? How do you know whether the person did research or submitted to loads of other places or whether they were really innocent in this? So the point is some people knew what they were getting into so therefore we can treat all of them the same way and forget about respect?

B) We have PA authors here and I'm mildly offended for them sometimes when people making sweeping generalized comments like this. Merri and Theresa are very sweet, kind people who are trying to help others. I again think people find it easier to make rude comments like that when the offender isn't in the room. Would you say the same of either of them? I don't think either of them are stupid, or knew what they were getting into, or anything else. I think they're two people who made a mistake. Same can be said of most every PA author I've seen around here. In any case, would you feel the same way ripping on their PA book? I still feel like that sense of making fun of someone behind their back makes people feel like it's more acceptable, but this is the internet, and there is no behind anyone's back.

C) We have PA authors coming here. We want them coming here. We want them to see the truth and recognize it and have a place that they can feel welcome. We don't want it to look like the kind of place PA says we are--jealous wannabes with a bone to pick. If I was a PA author and I saw some of these comments, I'd certainly think twice about coming back. I wouldn't feel welcome. In fact, I'd be saying, "Gosh, what if they think the same way about my stuff?" I'd certainly not assume anyone would refrain from saying so if they did. In fact, it would probably both scare me away and make me feel like total shit about my work, whether it was the one being mocked or not. I also think it feeds into what PA says and can make us look bad. At the very least, it makes it look like we think we're better than them. I'll guarantee that superiority like that isn't welcoming. It also feels an awful lot to me like kicking someone while they're down. They've already been screwed by PA, no matter what the circumstances.

D) Rudeness might be in fashion at the moment, but it's possible to make an honest judgment about something without being mean. I'd even be willing to accept "This was the worst writing I've seen," as possibly being an honest judgment. A harsh one, but if it's the truth then I suppose that's the truth. I'd never say something like that to someone, but oh well. But you can say what's wrong with something in an honest and constructive way that doesn't have to be mocking. "It made my eyes bleed" is mocking. "There are a lot of grammar problems that make it difficult to read" isn't. Personally, I think we should try to lean toward the latter. Maybe your post won't be as funny that way, but when humor comes at the other person's expense, that's a problem. And personally, I think we should always assume when we're writing on a public forum that the person we're speaking about is reading our comments before we say anything.

[dgiharris]

Look. I get what you are saying. "Hey, lets all be nice and mindful of fellow authors."

But i'm sorry. I can't do that with commercial works. I don't care if it is a song, a movie, a book, whatever. The second you want me to pay money for your work you open the door for honest criticism.

And if a few AWers got taken in by the PA scam...

***shrug***

Big deal.

We've all made mistakes. And that is what PA is for 'most' works, a mistake. I'm not going to sugar coat that fact. Just as the Nigerian bank scam is a mistake, so to is PA (for 'most' works, again there are some instances where PA is the right model to go to)

Any author that started out with PA and ended up here is very fortunate to have made their way to the light. And I don't see how me being critical of PA somehow makes those authors want to leave AW.

Incidentally, my comments weren't that all PA books suck. Just that particular PA book that was linked to.

How do we progress without honest criticism? Sometimes, the worst thing you can do for someone is to sugarcoat the negativity. Sometimes, they need the truth in all its bitter harshness. In any event, I stand by my posts.

We will agree to disagree.

Mel...

[kaitie]

I have no problem with honest criticism. What I'm saying is that honest criticism doesn't have to involve mocking. Yes, you might laugh at how much something sucks. Sure you might share it with friends. But I feel like it goes against the spirit of these boards to do so publicly on here.

I'm not saying you have to go lying to the author and say it's a great book and well written and the next bestseller if it isn't. What I'm saying is that a person can be negative with a little tact, and outright mocking someone's work is the opposite of tact.

And the difference with the Nigerian bank scam is that for the most part, people know what they're doing is illegal and they're hoping to get rich so they do it anyway. Most people who get involved think "well, I'll bend the law this once and make lots of money and no one will ever know." Then they end up getting ripped off instead. There's a certain level of wrongdoing on the part of the victim as well. A better analogy might be someone getting a phone call from the bank saying they have a problem and need to verify the account before they can fix it. The person knows that it's not a good idea to give anyone calling that information and has heard warnings before about scams like that, but they get caught up in whatever the problem of the moment is and give the number anyway.

And if you read what I've been saying, I've never once spoken out against honest criticism. We do need it to succeed, and I've never once even suggested otherwise.

[merrihiatt]

I'd even be willing to accept "This was the worst writing I've seen," as possibly being an honest judgment. A harsh one, but if it's the truth then I suppose that's the truth. I'd never say something like that to someone, but oh well. But you can say what's wrong with something in an honest and constructive way that doesn't have to be mocking. "It made my eyes bleed" is mocking. "There are a lot of grammar problems that make it difficult to read" isn't. Personally, I think we should try to lean toward the latter.

Exactly! You said it much better than I was going to say it.

I also believe that the PA threads are intended to be a welcoming place to writers who may be considering signing with PA or who have already signed with PA. It is not easy, especially at first, to hear what a huge mistake you may have made by signing with PA. If I had come across a post making fun of a PA author and slamming their work, I would have high-tailed it away from this site and never come back.

That didn't happen, though. I was welcomed here and now I share my PA experience in hopes that someone else will stop and think long and hard about signing on the dotted line. I don't want someone to go through what I went through.

Besides, a little courtesy and kindness never hurt anybody. It may give you an eye twitch occasionally, though.;)

[dgiharris]

I have no problem with honest criticism. What I'm saying is that honest criticism doesn't have to involve mocking.

I can admit my comment was mocking. But I seriously just don't care. You slap a $16 price tag on a putrid piece of fiction and want me to buy it? Sorry, I consider that way more offensive than the word craptastic.

The best concession I can make, is that I will never mock anyone's writing unless they put a price tag on it. If it is free or an e-zine, etc. then fine, i'll be tactful. But if they want me to pay money for their work then they're going to have to put up with me being an A-hole. That is the best I can offer.

And the difference with the Nigerian bank scam is that for the most part, people know what they're doing is illegal and they're hoping to get rich so they do it anyway....

Firstly, many of the Nigerian scams are NOT illegal. There is nothing illegal about someone sending you money. If you declare that money as income and pay taxes on it then you are legally fine.

The comparison of PA to the Nigerian scam, or any scam, is valid.

The way a decent con works is that you prey on the mark's desires. In the Nigerian scam, that desire is money. With the PA scam, that desire is publication and commercial success.

A con/scam cannot survive the light of logic; thus, it needs the fog of greed/hope to cloud the mark's judgement.

Now, do innocent, nice, well meaning people get taken in by cons? Absolutely. In fact, there is a correlation between niceness and gullibility. Con artists count on nice 'good' people since they tend to be more trusting than A-holes like me

Mel...

p.s. the reason I call PA a scam is becuase their business model is to sell books to the authors while they allude to a model that sells to the commercial market.

[merrihiatt]

I seriously just don't care.

I believe you've made this point very clear on this particular issue.

[allenparker]

I believe you've made this point very clear on this particular issue.


Merri, I think we all have. I think it is a good time to remember that there are people on here that really care about the authors caught in the troublesome world of PA. I won't name names here because I surely would leave someone out.

And I think it is clear that, although it may not sound like it, most of the posters here do care about others getting scammed. The passion alone in this shows their feelings.

For that, and other reasons, is why many PA authors have migrated here and benefited from the experience.

At this point, we should probably thank Mac for giving us this opportunity, and also Jenna for starting all of this.

Silly Sappy Stuff, over and out.

[K.L. Townsend]

I have no problem with honest criticism. What I'm saying is that honest criticism doesn't have to involve mocking. Yes, you might laugh at how much something sucks. Sure you might share it with friends. But I feel like it goes against the spirit of these boards to do so publicly on here.



This. And I don't think it's sugarcoating to be critical and leave out the mocking. Telling someone they are a talentless hack versus telling someone that their beginning doesn't work are two different kinds of criticism. You can still be honest with the second type.

In fact, the second type is way more constructive. Most people are willing to listen and improve if you give them constructive criticism. And that is what I feel the spirit of these boards is.

[Chris P]

Keep us informed, David. I mean that; if someone else is in the same situation and it works then we're getting somewhere, at least with some of the people. I'm not in your boat, unfortunately: my signed contract came bound together in the mail with all the requisite signatures in the proper places. Call it crying in my beer if you want, but I know my options with PA and I've chosen my course of action. I am not a victim of PA.

[Cyia]

Did you seriously just compare a contract issue with a war that killed millions and a crude joke involving nuns?

I suspected this from the tone of some of your posts, which honestly read more like a shill for PA than anything else -- they sound strikingly familiar wo someone who was trying to gather names under the guise of actionable statements being made against PA. People here don't play that game.

I'm calling: :troll

[Gillhoughly]

I am not finding the joke about rape to be the least bit amusing. No one should.

I'm figuring everyone else is just being polite and ignoring it.

I am not feeling polite today.

[Snowstorm]

Way out of line and offensive, DavidinAlaska.

[James D. Macdonald]

Let's avoid the derail, folks....

[IceCreamEmpress]

Unca Jim, one of the things that many people who have experienced rape find difficult is when other people "just ignore" rape jokes rather than calling them out. I am myself in that number, and DavidinAlaska, your joke is offensive, crude, and not okay.

[ResearchGuy]

. . .I'm figuring everyone else is just being polite and ignoring it.. . ..
I reported it as abusive immediately. I hope others did as well. I did not want to draw more attention to that offensive tripe by posting a comment. But that horse is out of the barn.

--Ken
P.S. Mod? Please apply a "one-strike" rule and ban that person. Once was too many times.

[DavidinAlaska]

We gonna play games on here or what? OK. I accept the fact the comment on my last post was old, stale and not a part of the system any longer due to all the new political correct stuff out there now.

I apologize for it.

Can we move on now?

If you think I am on here for fun, I'm not. I am serious about this PA thing. I can see some of you come here to try and spoil it. If you haven't go the guts or whatever to try and help me, please stay out of it. You are like barnacles on a ships hull. Sure you get to travel a round and visit places you never went to, but you just slow it all down and make it more difficult and expensive to do it.

[merrihiatt]

I accept the fact the comment on my last post was old, stale and not a part of the system any longer due to all the new political correct stuff out there now.

I apologize for it.


Better yet, delete it. Then your actions will back up your words. Anything less is completey unacceptable.

[Unimportant]

I accept the fact the comment on my last post was old, stale and not a part of the system any longer due to all the new political correct stuff out there now.


David, there is nothing new -- or, for that matter, optional -- in being courteous and civil.

[JulieB]

David, no one is trying to spoil this for you, but I think you're not being straightforward with us.

1. Did you get a snail mail contract, or one that required an electronic signature? If the latter, did you take the small precaution of taking screen shots? Making a printout?

2. Do you have an attorney? You've never answered that here that I can recall, but I see elsewhere on the web that you claim to have retained an attorney, though not one apparently versed in publishing law.

You accuse us of playing games. Please be straightforward with us.

[Terie]

If you think I am on here for fun, I'm not. I am serious about this PA thing. I can see some of you come here to try and spoil it. If you haven't go the guts or whatever to try and help me, please stay out of it. You are like barnacles on a ships hull. Sure you get to travel a round and visit places you never went to, but you just slow it all down and make it more difficult and expensive to do it.

You've already been told that the vast majority of posters in the PA threads are not current or former PA customers, and therefore can't be party to any kind of lawsuit. You need to practice your audience identification skills.

[Queen of Swords]

I can see some of you come here to try and spoil it. If you haven't go the guts or whatever to try and help me, please stay out of it.

Out of what, exactly?

This isn't a private clubhouse where you can plan your secret war. This is a public forum, and most of the people here have been fighting the good fight (so to speak) long before you arrived. As long as they're not breaking the rules, I don't see why they should stay out of anything.

You are like barnacles on a ships hull. Sure you get to travel a round and visit places you never went to, but you just slow it all down and make it more difficult and expensive to do it.Then perhaps the ship needs to be taken to drydock and inspected. Otherwise it may prove to be less than seaworthy.

[kaitie]

We gonna play games on here or what? OK. I accept the fact the comment on my last post was old, stale and not a part of the system any longer due to all the new political correct stuff out there now.


I just had to pop in here to say the offensiveness has nothing to do with anyone trying to be politically correct. If you don't understand why, there's a serious problem. Rape is not funny. Period. Ever.

I was a little more on your side with the whole PA thing before the comment, but yeah. I'll try to look past it and be helpful now. No one's trying to bring you down. In fact, many people here have tried things. I've sent letters to people about it and it never got anywhere. Other people have gotten federal investigations started. Others have actually used lawsuits. I'd love to see PA taken down as much as the next guy, and my advice would be to write to as many news outlets, etc. as possible. Better yet, find a big enough group of unhappy PA authors willing to speak out and go to media outlets yourselves. I truly believe that one of these days it will work.

And yes, I've always done what I can to help. As others have said, as a non-PA author my abilities are limited. I just don't have the clout.

[CatSlave]

I can see some of you come here to try and spoil it.
David, we're just trying to keep you from trying to reinvent a square wheel.
If you can succeed where so many others have failed, then go for it.

Let us know how things work out for you, okay?

I'm going to get back to being a barnacle and doing what I can to prevent others from signing with PA.
It's sad to see someone struggling to get out of the, um... quicksand he stepped in.

[allenparker]

If you haven't go the guts or whatever to try and help me, please stay out of it. You are like barnacles on a ships hull. Sure you get to travel a round and visit places you never went to, but you just slow it all down and make it more difficult and expensive to do it.

I think the path you are taking is obscuring your view of others. Help is available all over the place.

As a person who was published by PA, did better than most, and subsequently got his rights back, I can tell you that AW is a place you can count on for help.

First, I have never felt belittled or put down here. I knew from the first post I made here in 2005 that everyone I came in contact with had my best interest at heart. They allowed me my opinion of PA without judgment or recourse.

Second, when I started having problems with PA, I had more than a few people who encouraged me to keep writing.

Third, Atlanta Nights. The Purple Pony. Washington Post article. Publisher's Weekly. Enough said.

Lastly, and I say this knowing I will sound like I am blowing my own horn, I found a way to get out of my contracts and shared this with more than a few people. It worked for at least a dozen people.

I have the guts to help. I am not a knight in shining armor or a hero. I am one of literally dozens of people who have spent years helping. It is in honor of these people who offered me friendship and support that I continue to try and help here.

You might sit back and read some of the old threads here to see the old warriors in this battle, Uncle Jim, Ann Crispen, Jenna Glatzer, Mac, Dave Kuzminski, Research Guy, and a host of people I have forgotten. Many of these people have been sued for their part in helping new authors and aspiring writers.


The good news is that they are helping you right now as we type even with the accusation of lack of willingness. Just working in this thread is more than most people are willing to do. Ask and you will receive. Seek and you will find. Knock and the door will open.

Hope this helps.

[Gillhoughly]

Larry: Let's tell the Published Author her friend's a liar!

Miranda: Yeah, Published Authors just LOVE that one! Don't they, Willie...uh...uh...Willie??

Willie: Vhat did you say? I vas too busy admiring my utter awesomeness reflected in that camera lens to hear.



http://omglolhax.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/awesomeness.jpg

Willie takes Casual Friday a bit too far.

[Shrouded]

Well Gill, you hit the nail on the head with that one!

[brianm]

Larry: Let's tell the Published Author her friend's a liar!

Miranda: Yeah, Published Authors just LOVE that one! Don't they, Willie...uh...uh...Willie??

Willie: Vhat did you say? I vas too busy admiring my utter awesomeness reflected in that camera lens to hear.



http://omglolhax.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/awesomeness.jpg

Willie takes Casual Friday a bit too far.




Pardon me while I go wash my eyes out with bleach...

[CaoPaux]

http://iamadick.squarespace.com/storage/eyebleach1hw0.png?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=12854 47582851

[CatSlave]

omg.
Please pass the bleach...

[Cyia]

See, this is why I have AdBlocker Plus. I can make the scary man go away. (I can't make him put his pants on, but I can make him go away.)

[AlexPiper]

See, this is why I have AdBlocker Plus. I can make the scary man go away. (I can't make him put his pants on, but I can make him go away.)

ManBlocker Plus? :P

[FOTSGreg]

Hakuna, so, what you're saying is that you would have foregone magazines such as Weird Tales, or foregone such ezines as TaleBones today, because they were not "professional" enough for you?

How about Necrotic Tissue or Analog or Asimov's or Ellery Queen or F&SF? NT is defunct now, but the others all started in the pulp era. You name a single Big Name in SF or fantasy and I can almost guarantee you they've appeared in one of those four surviving magazines.

All of them started as "pulp". You might consider that many of the ezines we see today bubbling and churning on the web are the "pulp" of our day.

Be careful who you look down your nose at. You might find yourself submitting to them one day.

[Ari Meermans]

Hakuna, so, what you're saying is that you would have foregone magazines such as Weird Tales, or foregone such ezines as TaleBones today, because they were not "professional" enough for you?

How about Necrotic Tissue or Analog or Asimov's or Ellery Queen or F&SF? NT is defunct now, but the others all started in the pulp era. You name a single Big Name in SF or fantasy and I can almost guarantee you they've appeared in one of those four surviving magazines.

All of them started as "pulp". You might consider that many of the ezines we see today bubbling and churning on the web are the "pulp" of our day.

Be careful who you look down your nose at. You might find yourself submitting to them one day.

Have I lost the plot of the thread already? I can't find any references to "pulp" or Necrotic Tissue, Analog, Asimov's, Ellery Queen or F&SF by Little1 or anyone else. What am I missing here?

[Unimportant]

Hakuna, so, what you're saying is
FOTS, I think you must've replied to the wrong thread (??). Hakuna and others, including myself, were challenging allenparker's assertion that all authors everywhere yearn, and perhaps are desperate, to see their work in print, and because of this many fall for scams like PublishAmerica. Hakuna and others, including myself, were simply saying that we don't yearn to see our work in print, let alone feel desperate about it.

[James D. Macdonald]

Not all authors are desperate.

But many are. Enough to bank on as a vanity-press business.

[AnneMarble]

Hakuna, so, what you're saying is that you would have foregone magazines such as Weird Tales, or foregone such ezines as TaleBones today, because they were not "professional" enough for you?...

But as other people have stated, Hakuna isn't talking about pulp magazines. Hakuna is talking about PublishAmerica, which is a vanity press in diguise and bad news for authors.

At first, I thought you had posted in response to one of Hakuna's threads somewhere else, but I did an advanced search, and Hakuna hasn't mentioned "pulp" in any messages on the entire forum.

So now I'm as confused as everyone here. ;) Maybe you thought Hakuna was criticizing popular authors because of Stephen King's name in the thread title? But this thread hasn't been critical of Stephen King. It's critical of a writer who sued Stephen King for plagiarism, in what is clearly a frivolous case.

So could you please help us here and tell us what thread you were responding to? It sounds interesting. :D

[allenparker]

Not all authors are desperate.

But many are. Enough to bank on as a vanity-press business.


**NOTE: Not wanting to stir the pot, but just to submit an opinion. You can agree or disagree.**

Not all authors are desperate. We made a generalization and I continued it.

Not all author are desperate to see their work in print, but generally, the successful ones are.

We write a manuscript. Either we toss it in a drawer or we work hard to make it the best we can.

We polish the story to a fine glow. either we toss the book to our friends before we throw it in the drawer or we take what they say and make changes.

We either make the decision to stop move on or we send out one or two queries. Then the drawer or we decide to continue.

We endure rejection, mailing costs, lonely nights, and struggle to find that perfect scenario where one editor in one small room says she will champion our book to the selection group. Then the edits roll through. Hours of looking at our own mistakes and frailty while several editors hammer away at the metal of our stories. <mellow dramatic music begins> Then the day the reviews come out, we stand and read them, writing a few hate letters in our minds for the -1/2 off a star for a flat character, even though we know the story needed the character to be flat. Then the real email with a simple thank you goes out.

Everything we do that is worthy is hard. It is the desperate to succeed that really succeed. For us, this is to see our books in print.

As Jim said, some are more desperate than others. Some fall for those scoundrels in any industry that prey on people wanting to succeed.

I took exception to Jim's statement that separated PA authors into a group by what I see as a good thing in all authors, desperate to be in print. If we weren't, we wouldn't endure the forging we get with rejection, editors, and the general public.

Rejection teaches us to write better. Success teaches us to repeat what we did.

If I offended anyone here, I apologize.

[James D. Macdonald]

As high as my respect is for Allen, I find that I'm unable to agree. Dedicated, driven, obsessed; I'll cop to all of 'em. But not to desperate.

Desperate, de esperar, literally means "without hope."

"Desperate" means that you can't walk away from a bad contract, and not being able to walk away means that you will sign a bad contract.

[skylark]

I understand your comments here...but aren't you really using "desperate to be in print" as a shorthand for all these other things - acceptance, quality, reviews...?

I mean, if what authors are actually desperate for is to be in print, what are they messing about with commercial publishers for? It'll take them about ten minutes to set up a lulu account. Why spend all that time and effort on the most difficult and selective way to get into print, if what really matters to them is the print bit?

The reason vanity presses do so well, IMO, is that they push "being in print" as the important thing and either say or suggest that it gets you all the other things too, the ones which I think most writers are actually desperate for.

Edit: "You" is Allen, not Jim.

[Queen of Swords]

Not all author are desperate to see their work in print, but generally, the successful ones are.

Guess I'm not and never will be successful then. :)

[Scribhneoir]

Not all author are desperate to see their work in print, but generally, the successful ones are.


I think where you're going astray with this argument is using "desperate" when a better word would be "eager."

An eager writer has all the hopes and aspirations of the desperate writer, but also has confidence that honing their craft will lead to the results they want, even if it takes a long, long time. They'll wait for the real deal.

A desperate writer wants publication now, no matter what. Perhaps that's because they're tired of rejections, perhaps it's a sense of entitlement, perhaps it's impatience. But their desperation makes them easy prey for vanity presses, both honest and scammers.

[allenparker]

As high as my respect is for Allen, I find that I'm unable to agree.

We can disagree. I love the fact that we can disagree and do it agreeably.

I really meant for the conversation on my part to end, to apologize for those that I had offended, go go on.

I freely admit is was a mistake to divert this discussion again from its purpose and add to my explanation when it would have been better just to apologize and go on..

I think we have gone completely astray from our topic. Would someone please spank my hand and return this group to the proper topic. ( after, of course, everyone has a chance to respond, I guess.)

[SirOtter]

Hakuna, so, what you're saying is that you would have foregone magazines such as Weird Tales, or foregone such ezines as TaleBones today, because they were not "professional" enough for you?

How about Necrotic Tissue or Analog or Asimov's or Ellery Queen or F&SF? NT is defunct now, but the others all started in the pulp era.

Tennessee Williams' first publication was in Weird Tales. That's pretty good company to be in.

Not to be picky, but Asimov's started in 1978, well after the pulp era ended. Well, yes, that is pretty picky. Forget I mentioned it.

[Gillhoughly]

I know how this sounds, but a lot of folk are addicted to FaceBook.

PA is trying to use it, and the PA Kool-Aid swillers still on their honeymoon are happy to enable it. They've got a thing going to get 500 people to "Like" the PA page.

Countering that is the PublishAmerica Scam (http://www.facebook.com/pages/PublishAmerica-Scam/128768743843643?sk=wall&filter=1) page, trailing badly. However, if they get more "Likes" than the regular PA page, then they will be the first name to appear in a search engine.

If you're on FaceBook, feel free to participate, share the link, and perhaps leave a comment.

Make sure it's not an actionable comment. You've got no anonymity protection there.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/PublishAmerica-Scam/128768743843643?sk=wall&filter=1

[CatSlave]

If PA's intrepid pet attorney took action against everyone that dissed PA on Facebook, he would be as busy as a one-legged man at an ass kicking contest.

[CatSlave]

And as effective.

[ResearchGuy]

I know how this sounds, but a lot of folk are addicted to FaceBook. . . .
Hey! I resemble that remark! http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

--Ken

[stormie]

Rejection teaches us to write better. Success teaches us to repeat what we did.
Totally taken out of context, but I just wanted to quote the above because I like it. This is very true for many writers who do their research.

Unfortunately, there are those few who don't and find PublishAmerica and think PA is their saviour. And then they either think PA is the norm and churn out more books they have to buy in order to sell (many times complete with mistakes many times PA put in), or thankfully realize they've been had and learn how to research getting their book published by bypassing the scams like places such as PA.

[Alphabeter]

How many posts before that hideous photo stops appearing at the top of the page?

One mississippi ...

[CaoPaux]

How many posts before that hideous photo stops appearing at the top of the page?

One mississippi ...I've been wondering that very thing. :scared: (One more should do it. Who shall be our savior?)

[kaitie]

I think it's gonna require two. Quick, someone say something!

[Izz]

Aaargghh!

[CaoPaux]

:PartySmil

[Christine N.]

Boogers!

ETA: Damn! I was just a little too slow!

[Alphabeter]

Two Mississippi ...

(it still works with my mom)

[James D. Macdonald]

The fame of Atlanta Nights continues to spread (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/09/03/1011722/-Books-So-Bad-Theyre-Good:-Naked-Came-the-Libertine-to-Atlanta?)!

[Ari Meermans]

What a treat! The blog post itself was a helluva romp.

[JulieB]

Travis Tea lives on...

[Stacia Kane]

Ha! Awesome.

[rainsmom]

I never tire of that story.

[Julianne]

I haven't posted here in quite a while, and I'm not sure if this is the right thread for this but this (http://nickolauspacione.blogspot.com/2011/11/game-over-is-accepted.html) will probably turn out to be quite amusing.

(Mods, feel free to delete if I've mentioned someone who you don't want mentioned here.)

[James D. Macdonald]

Oh, that won't end well.

[Gravity]

:popcorn:

This should prove to be quite the hoot.

[JulieB]

Oh, that won't end well.

Agreed.

[Blake M. Petit]

I have no idea what the background of this situation is, but it looks like a Hindenberg in the making.

[Julianne]

I have no idea what the background of this situation is, but it looks like a Hindenberg in the making.

Google the blog author's name. He's an interesting psychological study.

Edited to add: His Encyclopedia Dramatica page is NSFW; neither are most of his Youtube postings (mostly for swearing, hate speech, and other nastiness).

[Gillhoughly]

Hilarious. Even insane trolls (http://wiki.fandomwank.com/index.php/Nicky_the_Goth) know The Write Agenda is a troll.

I hope PA accepts his book. That's the best way to keep its poison from the reading public.

[Gillhoughly]

Oh, gosh. The insane troll is posting on FB about things. It thinks it has a real book deal with a real publisher.

Not getting the popcorn yet, but I'll bookmark its blog and go back about when the the author copy arrives. The troll is touchy about its deathless prose.

I am looking forward to the kerfuffle between the troll, Larry and Vic. Fandomwank may have to re-open a page.

Y'know, in this *one* case I'm temped toward an atom-sized piece of sympathy for PA.

PSYCH!

No, I'm NOT! :roll:

For those coming in late, we're NOT going to post the troll's name here. There's bat-shit insane, crazy-hat-wearing, sociopathic psychos and then there's THIS person, who makes THEM look normal.

Moderators should delete this post if they think it's too risky. I'm okay with that!

.

[Cyia]

Not getting the popcorn yet, but I'll bookmark its blog and go back about when the the author copy arrives.

.



Yikes... :chair I'm not sure there's a hiding emoticon suitable for that scenario. Do we have something sturdier than a chair?

[Julianne]

I am looking forward to the kerfuffle between the troll, Larry and Vic. Fandomwank may have to re-open a page.

I believe said troll has been banned from Fandomwank, both it posting and any mention of it. However, it has been banned from so many many places that I don't remember for sure if this was one of them.

[cussedness]

The "troll" has been posting all over the net about me, including an article at Associated Content (which is now owned by Yahoo) with his paranoid imagination working over time. I got that one taken down. The rest I'm ignoring.

[LouLucy]

Beware of PublishAmerica
http://www.bewareofpublishamerica.com/

Very interesting I must say.

[Sarashay]

Beware of PublishAmerica
http://www.bewareofpublishamerica.com/

Very interesting I must say.

"Interesting" in a frothing lunatic conspiracy theorist kind of way. I even KNOW that PublishAmerica sucks, and I'm not persuaded by it.

[CaoPaux]

Since this isn't related to the lawsuit under discussion, I'm moving it elsewhere.