There's a huge difference between "informal" and "sloppy" or "completely ignorant." This board is an informal forum. I think we all overlook obvious typos, the odd misspelling, or the informal grammatical construction, the same way we might overlook someone talking with a little food in their mouth at a picnic. But just the same way you might speak up if that person were spraying food all over and using their hands to scoop up the lasagna, people speak up when someone who claims to be a writer is abusing the language. Implying or stating that we've got sticks up our behinds if we do so may make you feel superiorly unsticked, but I'll bet even you'd say something if I dropped gobs of half-chewed macaroni on your dinner table.
But we rarely see completely ignorant. We see someone pointing out that "its" should have been "it's" or something like that, and usually when the discussion is heated and someone's being snarky.Aconite said:
Well, we're talking different situations here. I don't accept the analogy you're drawing--seeing a typo in a post on an informal message board isn't the same as someone spitting half chewed food all over your dinner table. Not even close.
If someone's posts are so riddled with typos that you can't handle it, you can put them on ignore. Or if you feel so inclined, you can PM them. There's no reason to publicly correct someone on a board like this.
By the way, I wasn't implying that those who don't like typos in posts have sticks up their behinds. I just don't understand why people bothered by typos would choose to hang around on informal boards where there are guaranteed to be typos. Life's too short to spend time on things you know will irritate you. Best to find another activity or learn to overlook typos in posts. That's what I meant.
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Would you correct your friend's grammar and accent when you have an informal conversation with her? To do so is RUDE in real life, no matter how good a friend you are with her. Not to mention if she is a total stranger.
Same thing here.
Now, if your friend is preparing for a big speech and she needs your help, that's a different story.
Same thing here.
Now, if your friend is preparing for a big speech and she needs your help, that's a different story.
brinkett said:
Maybe you and I hang out in different parts of the board, then, because I certainly do see posters without a good grasp of language, usage, and word choice.
That wasn't the analogy I drew. I said typos were like talking with a little food in your mouth at a picnic--acceptable under the circumstances.
First, I'm not just talking about typos. Second, what if I feel it's disrespectful to post that sloppily on a writers' board and expect others to just deal with it because it doesn't bother you? If your table manners disturb me, I will mention it. If you persist, I will not eat with you anymore. Etiquette does not insist that I go straight to ignoring you; I am permitted to comment on the situation.
That's how we were supposed to take "Anyone who gets upset over typos on boards like this should probably spend their time doing something else until they get over it"?
IOW, "You should be like me."
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maestrowork said:
If my friend were a writer and I knew she wanted to make words and the use of words into her career -- yup, I would correct a usage issue in an informal conversation if it's obvious she really doesn't know the correct usage and it's a recurring problem for her (and not just a typo) -- learning the difference might help her writing later.
Now, if I have a friend who works construction and doesn't give a hoot about words or their usage -- then, no, of course I wouldn't correct her words or usage since correcting her would do nothing except suggest I consider my job (using words) to be more valuable than her job (using her hands and her brain differently).
However, if I decided to switch to construction and my construction buddy happened to see me using a hammer casually (to put together a birdhouse) and sees that I'm doing it wrong. I certainly wouldn't be offended to be shown the right way -- I would appreciate getting some help in my career goal. In fact, to be honest, even though I am a total klutz and have NO interest in construction work, I would still appreciate tips in how to use a hammer -- but that's just me.
Though it pays not to be too delicate about mistakes/typos. I once sent a note to a children's magazine editor say I would soon be sending "the whore article" (I meant whole, whole!). That editor STILL, TO THIS DAY, teases me about it now and again. I guess she didn't know I was supposed to be sensitive about typos.
gran
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Well, a friend of mine corrected my grammar when we were chatting one day, about the weather, I think. In front of everybody. I haven't spoken with that "friend" for a while now. 
Seriously, if someone's typos bother you that much, send that person a PM! It really is rude to offer unsolicited correction publically. Take my words for it.
Seriously, if someone's typos bother you that much, send that person a PM! It really is rude to offer unsolicited correction publically. Take my words for it.
It doesn't have to be. It can be done with tact. Much depends on context and execution--and on the person being corrected. I prefer to be corrected rather than be allowed to go on ignorant of my errors--I consider it a kindness. My spouse does not want to be corrected, ever, even if it's to be told, "Yes, actually, that electric fence you're about to touch is on."maestrowork said:
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Aconite said:
The keyword is "unsolicited." Just as you said, you have no problem with people correcting you in public, but some people like your spouse might have a problem. So, on a bulletin board, it's probably not a good idea to correct someone you don't really know that well. You may offend someone or hurt someone's feeling without even knowing it and your intention might be a kind one -- send a PM instead! That's what I say...
We must. Most of the posts I see are fine. They may have the odd typo, wrong word, or grammatical error, but still communicate their point.
So the analogy you were drawing was that a sloppy post riddled with typos and grammatical errors is like someone spitting food all over your table? Still don't buy it. Sorry.Aconite said:
Sure, as long as you understand that it often reflects worse on the person doing the correcting than it does on the one being corrected. If you're okay with that, correct away.
That's what I meant by it, yes.
Yes, in this case, I do think it's better that you be more like me. You'll find the boards much more enjoyable.
Sure. If you read my posts (and Ray's), you'll see that we're talking against correcting people PUBLICLY, not privately. When you do it publicly, it comes across as being smarmy, which is why it often reflects badly on the one doing the correcting.
Yes, that is the comparison I'm drawing. A certain level of sloppiness is rude to the people around you, and attempting to excuse it on the grounds that it doesn't bother you and shouldn't bother anyone else is missing the point.brinkett said:
Ah, so standing up for my right to be comfortable in a forum is rude? If I don't agree that it should be acceptable to let it all hang out, I'm just a fussy geezer who should change so you don't have to?
Then maybe you'd want to rethink the wording, because it came across as pretty combative to me.
And if I point out that the problem could also be solved by your being more like me, is that similarly acceptable to you?
I have no problems being corrected in public. Why can't you just be more like me and relax about it? After all, this is an informal forum where people do correct each other, so you'd stress a lot less if you just accepted that. Right?
We'd both have to agree that typos and grammatical errors are rude. We don't.Aconite said:
I don't see where I said that in my post.
I did clarify the meaning in my next post.
But I don't think there's a problem when posts contain errors, so I don't think there's a problem to solve.
I'm not stressing over people publicly correcting others; just pointing out that it's generally not done on informal forums like these. If anyone sounds stressed over this conversation, it's you. I think you're taking all of this a little too personally, which is why I'll drop it now.
You both have a tremendous amount to contribute to these boards. However, I have to say that right now you are sounding a bit like some of the authors on the PA boards when they get into their little squabbles. What was this thread about? Don't hit me please!
I'd only do that if you were really into it, and asked nicely.Lady of Prose said:Don't hit me please!
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Ooo! Ooo! Look!
It's not dying this time, but it claims it's 'going away'.
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=4189
(This is a link to the public message board... if that's not okay, someone delete this sucker and slap me!)
Ol' Girl
It's not dying this time, but it claims it's 'going away'.
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=4189
(This is a link to the public message board... if that's not okay, someone delete this sucker and slap me!)
Ol' Girl
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HB
Unfortunately, he'll be back at some point. But it will be on some message board - begging for attention.
As far as the literary world is concerned...nary a ripple.
Bye, bye.
Nancy
Unfortunately, he'll be back at some point. But it will be on some message board - begging for attention.
As far as the literary world is concerned...nary a ripple.
Bye, bye.
Nancy
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PA pathology
I think I have the answer to why Publishamerica won't let authors go, even though they aren't making money for PA, are angry and resentful, do their best to bring the company down, and so on.
There's a psychological disorder called "animal hoarding". The archetypal old lady with her dozens of cats in a filthy house, but she's convinced that her pets are all in perfect condition and happy, and no amount of evidence will sway her. You can read an interesting (but disturbing) discussion of it here: http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/002253.html
I think Publish America is "author hoarding". A quote from the discussion above is telling: As one animal welfare worker said, “Collecting is not about having a loving home. Collecting is not about love, it’s about control. I have real contempt for collectors.”
Sometimes neighbours stage interventions on animal hoarders. That might be more difficult to arrange in this case.
-Barbara
I think I have the answer to why Publishamerica won't let authors go, even though they aren't making money for PA, are angry and resentful, do their best to bring the company down, and so on.
There's a psychological disorder called "animal hoarding". The archetypal old lady with her dozens of cats in a filthy house, but she's convinced that her pets are all in perfect condition and happy, and no amount of evidence will sway her. You can read an interesting (but disturbing) discussion of it here: http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/002253.html
I think Publish America is "author hoarding". A quote from the discussion above is telling: As one animal welfare worker said, “Collecting is not about having a loving home. Collecting is not about love, it’s about control. I have real contempt for collectors.”
Sometimes neighbours stage interventions on animal hoarders. That might be more difficult to arrange in this case.
-Barbara
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My mother would correct my grammar all the time growing up.
I, likewise, correct my wife...
Reminds me of a funny story from way back, though...one of which I shouldn't repeat for decency purposes...hmmmm...
I, likewise, correct my wife...
Reminds me of a funny story from way back, though...one of which I shouldn't repeat for decency purposes...hmmmm...
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Ugh, there is so much "thank you PA" and "we're here for you PA - keep growing" crap on the boards that I just want to run and pound Meiners head in.
Just wanted to say that, it's disgusting the way they have those poor people deluded.
Just wanted to say that, it's disgusting the way they have those poor people deluded.
Christine N. said:
patience... in about a month those royalty checks are going to be "flying" out of the PA offices and a lot of people are going to be standing by their mailboxes with a confused look, wondering what happened to their life savings...
"But... I bought 200 books with my kid's college fund and I still have 150 left... and I only sold *5* online? And my royalty for that was only three bucks?"
it's a harsh awakening, that's for sure... first they'll be emailing PA with their questions about sales they KNOW were made but weren't paid for... and PA will start with the "90 days for us to get paid" line and then move up to the "don't take that tone with us"...
and then they'll end up here.
*sighs*