The New Never-Ending PublishAmerica Thread (NEPAT)

[Jaws]

by Bridgette Harwood (http://tinyurl.com/gy6kp) appeared in the Fredericksburg News Post this morning, describing the results of the Dolan arbitration. The biggest and juiciest shill quote is this one:
"We are very proud to have a lenient acceptance threshold," said Danielle McDonald, a spokeswoman for PA.
Lenient acceptance threshold???????????

[DeePower]

http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sections/news/display.htm?storyid=47638

MMMm? Has Danielle Donaldson taken Miranda's place?

Dee

PS Way to go Phil!

[rekirts]

"We are very proud to have a lenient acceptance threshold," said Danielle McDonald, a spokeswoman for PA.:ROFL: lenient acceptance threshold needs to be added to the list of PA-isms.

[James D. Macdonald]

"Lenient acceptance threshold" means "we figure the author will buy 75 copies of his own book." Or, "you send it, we'll accept it." Or "Yes, we are a vanity press."

[vicki]

"Lenient acceptance threshold" means "we figure the author will buy 75 copies of his own book." Or, "you send it, we'll accept it." Or "Yes, we are a vanity press."
When you twist words around (which is done a great deal on this thread) you don't win the argument -- you lose.

I would also add to all British broadcasting media folk who lurk here that repetition absolutely loses the argument.

[ResearchGuy]

When you twist words around (which is done a great deal on this thread) you don't win the argument -- you lose.

I would also add to all British broadcasting media folk who lurk here that repetition absolutely loses the argument.
Huh?

Jim was translating, not twisting. And I, for one, think he was precisely correct. The record seems to be clear on that.

(British broadcasting? What's up with that?)

--Ken

[Bufty]

Vicki, you are entitled to your opinions as I and everyone else is, but try reading and learning here instead of jumping to conclusions and putting both feet in it.

When you twist words around (which is done a great deal on this thread) you don't win the argument -- you lose.
I would also add to all British broadcasting media folk who lurk here that repetition absolutely loses the argument.

[vicki]

Huh?

Jim was translating, not twisting. And I, for one, think he was precisely correct. The record seems to be clear on that.

(British broadcasting? What's up with that?)

--Ken
Therein lies a story.

[aruna]

Huh?

Jim was translating, not twisting. And I, for one, think he was precisely correct. The record seems to be clear on that.

(British broadcasting? What's up with that?)

--Ken

BBC Watchdog, a consumer programme that exposes scams, has had their eyes on PublishAmerica for some time. They have contacted me, Lucia White, and a couple other members from this forum, and have been collecting stories. I'm sure they've read this thread from time to time. However, with the "fall" of PublishAtlantica, they're probably no longer interested. PA's a dead horse in Britain.

[Gabriele]

BBC Watchdog, a consumer programme that exposes scams, has had their eyes on PublishAmerica for some time. They have contacted me, Lucia White, and a couple other members from this forum, and have been collecting stories. I'm sure they've read this thread from time to time. However, with the "fall" of PublishAtlantica, they're probably no longer interested. PA's a dead horse in Britain.

If they work like the German one, they'll also have contacted PA to get their view on the matter. Maybe PA's UK branch didn't make enough money to justify the risk of an investigation of any sorts and they closed it.

We've had a mysteriously dissapperating "plastic surgeon" fe. :)

[ResearchGuy]

A couple of days ago, the PublishAtlantica link at the top of the PA home page led to a defunct www.publishbritannica.com (http://www.publishbritannica.com/) page (there, but only a "Directory Listing Denied" warning).

Now it leads to http://www.publishatlantica.com/ -- and the whole nine yards.

Looks like they are still carrying on the charade:

PublishAtlantica is part of an international book publishing conglomerate, spanning the North Atlantic, with presences in the United States, Scandinavia, and on the European mainland. World headquarters are located in the Washington, DC metropolitan area, in Maryland, USA

Conglomerate. Right.

--Ken

[stormie]

For some reason (writer's block, actually, and I just didn't feel like writing) I wandered over to the PA's newbie boards.

One person puzzled over the over-the-top pricing of his book. Others quickly placated him, telling him his book is probably so great that it's worth the money.

Another person wondered about returns and would she get her money back.

Wonder how long those posts will last.

[Christine N.]

A couple of days ago, the PublishAtlantica link at the top of the PA home page led to a defunct www.publishbritannica.com (http://www.publishbritannica.com/) page (there, but only a "Directory Listing Denied" warning).

Now it leads to http://www.publishatlantica.com/ -- and the whole nine yards.

Looks like they are still carrying on the charade:


Conglomerate. Right.

--Ken

Yes, but their writers@publishatlantica.uk e-mail bounces as undeliverable. Perhaps they're only taking subs through the US e-mail now, but this one no longer works.

[Canada James]

When you twist words around (which is done a great deal on this thread) you don't win the argument -- you lose.

I would also add to all British broadcasting media folk who lurk here that repetition absolutely loses the argument.

Repetition in and of itself neither wins nor loses an argument.

Saying the right thing once or a thousand times still wins, and saying the wrong thing once or a thousand times still loses.

"Lenient acceptance policy" is a policy that means they accept manuscripts that other publishers won't touch. Why won't other publishers touch a manuscript?

Because it is unpublishable and only the author and his family/friends will buy it.

James

[mdin]

by Bridgette Harwood (http://tinyurl.com/gy6kp) appeared in the Fredericksburg News Post this morning,

When asked about the arbitration with Mr. Dolan, Ms. McDonald, the PA spokeswoman, said, "Both parties are required to keep the details of the arbitration confidential, and the true outcome has not been divulged, so you could not possibly have learned the outcome."

That tone sounds awfully familiar. We sure Ms. McDonald is a real person?

[aruna]

Yes, but their writers@publishatlantica.uk e-mail bounces as undeliverable. Perhaps they're only taking subs through the US e-mail now, but this one no longer works.

No, they specifically said they are no longer taking subs from Britain, only from the US and Canada.

[Ilovepensandpaper]

A PA author emailed to say that her book is available online, so I emailed her back a link to my website, saying that Publish America is a scam.
She wrote back:
I am fully aware about PA. I am very happy with the job they have done on my book. I am not going with them for my next books, however am glad that I choose to use them for my book. My book is not over priced, and it states clearly in the contract that you will in charge of marketing your own book.
What is the website for anyway? It sounds like ranting and raving of a failed author who had turned bitter. I do not need to be informed about PA. Who the hell would sign with someone without having the common sense to research them thoroughly?

Failed and bitter, hardly, my dear. Enlightened and wiser are much better words. Anywho, I did save one precious writer from PA, and she wrote on my guestbook:
Thanks I almost got scammed, but the seven year deal is what through me for a loop. Again, thanks for the information its needed.
Happy! Happy! Joy! Joy! That's what I am talking about!

[aruna]

The British media are bugging me.


If the BBC have contacted a non-PA author, such as Aruna, they can contact and discuss PA with me also, anytime.

That was a long time ago, vicki, last year some time. I'm sure they've lost interest by now. Why don't you contact them yourself? Google BBC Watchdog and the address is right there. I'm sure they'd love to hear your story, whatever it is. As would we all! You are certainly keeping your hand covered, but I have no doubt you DO have a story.

[Christine N.]

No, they specifically said they are no longer taking subs from Britain, only from the US and Canada.

Oh, ok, I hadn't heard that, Aruna. Did someone get an e-mail to that effect?

I think between the shipping to the UK (which is pretty high if you're talking about more than one or two books) and the fact that they don't write royalty checks in pounds, the UK was becoming more trouble that it was worth.


Wondering how many of the UK authors have gotten their walking papers,

[James D. Macdonald]

I think between the shipping to the UK (which is pretty high if you're talking about more than one or two books) ....

I thought they were having them printed locally at that famous address in Milton Keynes?

[Bufty]

Because you are a PA author, perhaps, who can tell the 'truth' about PA? Maybe not. Whatever it is - tell us. Our side of the story is here for all to read. Add yours, if you feel the picture is unbalanced.

If the BBC have contacted a non-PA author, such as Aruna, they can contact and discuss PA with me also, anytime.

[orraloon]

Wondering how many of the UK authors have gotten their walking papers,



Received yesterday by registered post -

"I am informing you that, as per your breach of Par. 17 of our agreement, we are discontinuing the publication of your book A Drifter's Legacy, as of this day.

Par. 17 states that, "Sales promotion, advertising and publicity shall be at the publisher's election and discretion as to the extent, scope and character thereof and in all matters pertaining thereto. The Author agrees to actively participate in promoting the sales of said literary work in his home town area and elsewhere, by making himself available to media interviews, book readings and/or signings, and other public sales promotion appearances."

Your final royalty statement will be sent as usual. All rights under the copyright are herewith returned to you.

Sincerely,

Jessica Lewis,

PublishAmerica Inc., General Partner"



Considering the tone of Jessica's rebuttal just a month ago "We must deny your request to terminate your contract. If your claim is correct, and you have indeed been pursuing "negative publicity", we'd rather see that you continue doing so. Partly as a result of your efforts, our ranks have grown by approximately 10,000 new authors." you have to wonder if they're finding it cheaper just to dump us rather than pay Amazon to display our books. Added to the release agreement I refused to sign, I have cost PA almost as much in postage as in royalty payments! Well, more actually because the cheques were too small to bank.


Since Jessica would rather see me doing so, I have continued to pursue negative publicity for PA in the form of another article (acceptance yet to be confirmed by Express Press Release although it appears on their forum) http://pressreleaseforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=7161&sid=c8b7f4d8fa6f5b4c96b232dc3b85ab49 (http://pressreleaseforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=7161&sid=c8b7f4d8fa6f5b4c96b232dc3b85ab49)


I wish everyone still awaiting release a similar happy event in the near future.


Btw, you're right Jim, Lightning Source prints PA books in the UK, although PA tried to charge me shipping from the US (unsuccessfully) when I bought my 50 copies in 2003.

[DaveKuzminski]

If anyone has a copy of the email from PublishAtlantica or PublishAmerica stating that PublishAtlantica is no longer active, I would appreciate it if you could share a copy with me.

[ByGrace]

Earlier it was mentioned there was an article in the Frederick News Post about Publish America. Someone has started a thread on the Post's forum.

http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sections/fusetalk/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=1625&enterthread=y

If you can't access it go to www.fredericknewspost.com. The 'forum' is listed in the sidebar. You have to register to post a reply.

[Christine N.]

I thought they were having them printed locally at that famous address in Milton Keynes?

Yeah, you'd think that... except that John said that the shipping for his two authors copies of the '200 authors' book was $30.

Hmmm....

[janetbellinger]

I don't think we should have to rely on our friends, to buy our books. If they do choose to buy them, it should be done freely, not because they feel obligated to do so. I want my readers to buy my book because they think it will be a good read, not because they think they have to. The same goes for fellow authors. Over at PA, authors seem to feel they need to buy each other's work. This is just adding insult to injury, in my opinion. I mean, I would buy one, but only if it met my criteria for a good book, and it would have stiff competition, because I am very particular. I don't want to stiff other authors to buy my book, anymore than I want my friends to feel they are under obligation to do so.

Janet

[AC Crispin]

I signed on and left a message on the Frederick News-Post comments forum. I hope it may do some good.

The Frederick News-Post Forums - Scam Publish America in the News Post Again! (http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sections/fusetalk/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=1625)

-Ann C. Crispin
Writer Beware
www.writerbeware.com (http://www.writerbeware.com)

[Sheryl Nantus]

I don't think we should have to rely on our friends, to buy our books. If they do choose to buy them, it should be done freely, not because they feel obligated to do so. I want my readers to buy my book because they think it will be a good read, not because they think they have to. The same goes for fellow authors. Over at PA, authors seem to feel they need to buy each other's work. This is just adding insult to injury, in my opinion. I mean, I would buy one, but only if it met my criteria for a good book, and it would have stiff competition, because I am very particular. I don't want to stiff other authors to buy my book, anymore than I want my friends to feel they are under obligation to do so.

Janet

*applauds loudly*

exactly!

it's like getting reviews from friends and family - while it's all nice to have them stacked up like cordwood in your Amazon rating and on your website, they're not going to be *honest* reviews that will truly reflect your novel. Get reviews from people you *don't* know and don't count on sales from your family and friends to make your day. If they buy it, great.

there's nothing worse than a family member or friend pushing their newest product on others - whether it's Avon, Amway or PublishAmerica, it's 'orribly impolite and hard to stay nice in the long run.

[surfwordz]

Thanks for the heads up...[/QUOTE]








Word!!! :)

[DeePower]

Here is a news release from March 24, 2006

http://www.send2press.com/newswire/2006-03-0324-006.shtml

About PublishAmerica:

PublishAmerica is the home of 17,000 talented authors. PublishAmerica is a traditional publishing company whose primary goal is to encourage and promote the works of new, previously undiscovered writers. Like more mainstream publishers, PublishAmerica pays its authors advances and royalties, makes its books available in both the United States and Europe through all bookstores, and never charges any fees for its services. PublishAmerica offers a distinctly personal, supportive alternative to vanity presses and less accessible publishers.
# # #

NEWS SOURCE: Amy Frost

MEDIA CONTACT(S):
[ not for publication or the public ]

Danielle McDonald
Public Relations Department
PublishAmerica:
for Amy Frost
pr@publishamerica.com
+1-301-695-1707


Wouldn't it be a kick if someone sent Danielle a link to all the unfavorable articles about PA, just so they would be up to speed?

Dee

[Gabriele]

PublishAmerica pays its authors advances and royalties :ROFL:

Well, maybe it's enough for a Happy Meal at the Restaurant of the Golden Double Arc.

[Nexusman]

Here is a news release from March 24, 2006

http://www.send2press.com/newswire/2006-03-0324-006.shtml


Looks like the typical mail-merged PA press release that's been done to death. I'm sure this book will "resonate with an audience."

Admittedly, the author is quite easy on the eyes.

-Nick

[Sassenach]

The author '[redacted] is a person with creativity. She has always been curious of life and what living had to offer. She has always seen the way people lived and wondered a lot about why we have been brought in this world. What is the purpose of life?'

That makes me want to grab my credit card and order.

[ResearchGuy]

Painful: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22resonate+with+an+audience%22+PublishAmerica&btnG=Search

Lots of them pertain to Atlanta Nights, but those that don't are just sad.


PublishAmerica expressed confidence today that Ms. Cassella-Young's book will quickly resonate with an audience.

Ms. McMaster Conroy’s book will quickly resonate with an audience.

Mr. Williams' book will quickly resonate with an audience. ...

He contacted a publishing house named PublishAmerica who felt Harm's book would quickly resonate with an audience. They purchased the publishing rights in ...

PublishAmerica expressed confidence today that Ms. Kidwell's book will quickly resonate with an audience. The company believes that The Year I Lost My ...

Publish America announces their acquisition rights for Susan Richmond's second ... today that Ms. Richmond’s book will quickly resonate with an audience. ...

. . . Etc. Etc. Etc. . . .

Mr. Chavez's book will quickly resonate with an audience

"Softly do the Spirit Animals Speak" is a well written and crafted work of contemporary fiction...that...will quickly resonate with an audience."

Ms. Frost's book will quickly resonate with an audience. ...

"Burns is an accomplished talent" and her books should "quickly resonate with an audience." ...

Ms. Tyler-Vaughn’s book will quickly resonate with an audience.

Walker’s book will quickly resonate with an audience. ...

Gibson’s book will quickly resonate with an audience. ...

Mr. Stumpo's book will quickly resonate with an audience. ...

confidence that Marsh's book will quickly resonate with an audience. ...

. . . Etc. Etc. Etc. . . .


Those are just the ones that made onto Google-indexed Web pages, not the thousands of others that went into trash cans From Sea to Shining Sea.

--Ken

[icerose]

Shudders on the "resonate with an audience." I can't tell you how many times I heard that. They seem to find a select few words and use them over and over again.

How many people heard "nonsensical" in their tone letters? Raise your hand. It makes me wonder if they even know what it means or if only one person does and they just copy and paste because it looks good.

"frivolous grievances" is another one.

We should write a fictional depiction of life with PA. Sacrifical ceremonies (banning from message board then bad mouthed with no chance of defense) and rights of passage such as failed book signings, the looking down of store clerks, or pity, that's the worst, and whip out your credit card sales pitches.

It would have greed, suspense, lies, deception, conspiracy, danger (cops coming to the house), thrills and chills (author copies and discovery of the truth), and deflated egos.

Sound like fun?

Sara

[ResearchGuy]

...We should write a fictional depiction of life with PA. ...
Sound like fun?

Sara
Sure. Throw in some vampires, free-form poets, plagiarists, and self-taught cosmologists who have solved the mysteries of the universe, and we are there.

--Ken

[PVish]

"'Curiosity of Life: Poetry to Wander About' is a well written and crafted work of contemporary fiction that fits our specialty like a glove," said Prather. "PublishAmerica primarily publishes works by, for or about people who face a challenge in life, and who overcome it by turning stumbling blocks into stepping stones."
"We believe that Ms. Frost is a promising talent in this field."

Poetry as "contemporary fiction"? Is that in a similar genre to the "fiction novel"?

And while I'm being picky: Shouldn't it be "people who face challenges in life"? Are they all facing the same challenge?

Oh, wait—the challenge they face is publishing (and I use the term loosely) with PA. Almost forgot that for a sec.

[orraloon]

Also came across this one - http://www.andersbruce.com/scampublisher/catalog.html

He's learning fast!

[AnneMarble]

Poetry as "contemporary fiction"? Is that in a similar genre to the "fiction novel"?
I actually have seen novels written in the form of poetry. (It's fairly common in the YA section, for some reason.) However, I think it looks like the PA employee stuck with doing press releases filled out the "Mad Libs" incorrectly. Poor author. :(

The words PA uses -- whether in its press releases or on its web site -- remind me of those experiments where a class is told to access the accuracy of a personalized horoscope. Everyone thinks the horoscope describes them perfectly -- until the next step, where the teacher demonstrates that everyone got the same horoscope. The text was designed with generalities that not only can define just about everyone but what everyone wants people to think about them, etc.

There are also experiments where the people running the experiment give "psychic readings" to people using lots of fluffy generalities. And most people think they just met a real psychic, never realizing they said the same thing to each person. All you have to do is use psychology (hint hint) to say what people want to hear. PA's claim of giving books the chance they deserve is not that far from someone giving psychic readings and saying things like "No one appreciates you, and you wish people would understand you more."

[James D. Macdonald]

http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sections/fusetalk/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=1625&enterthread=y



Here's the money quote:

I know someone who worked for Publish America. Very bad experience. They refused to give him his final paycheck but were kind enough to include it in his W-2 for the year. I've also heard that their accounting firm dropped them because of their shady business practices.

If that person could be convinced to go to the IRS....

[aruna]

Also came across this one - http://www.andersbruce.com/scampublisher/catalog.html

He's learning fast!

That site is hilarious! He's written 6 books and is only 15. He also has a funny agent site:

http://www.andersbruce.com/

[Christine N.]

Anders used to stop by here all the time, and I hear from him now and again. He's a great kid :)

I guess PA can't be bothered to tell the rest of the world that PAt no longer exists. Hmmm... wonder how long until the current UK authors find that out?? Wonder what will happen next time they want to order books?

It's kind of like a soap opera...

[xhouseboy]

This what you are looking for, Dave? Hopefully it means just what it says.

To PA - On behalf of all those UK writers who now won't have the privilege of being screwed by you -goodbye and good riddance! But I do thank you for your courteous and prompt reply.

Wonder if the disappearance of PA'S UK operation might have anything to do with the out of court settlement with EB. Weren't EB suing for 75k plus costs? Maybe they weighed up the pros and cons of continuing in the UK, balanced against the fact that they were already in the hole, and decided it was a scam too far in this instance. Cut their losses and run.

[Ilovepensandpaper]

Wow I didn't think one existed!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PublishAmericaAuthors/?yguid=113292026

[James D. Macdonald]

Still off topic, and will shortly be moved, but:

Over on the PA boards, there's this thread:

BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU OPEN!!!!! (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=12384)
(http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=12384)
UNFORTUNATELY MY WIFE OPENED E-MAILS FROM THE SCAM ARTISTS CLAIMING YOU HAVE WON A MAJOR LOTTERY. WE WON SOMETHING FOR SURE. A WORM THAT IS EMBEDDED ON MY COMPUTERS HARD DRIVE THAT DEVOURS FILES. THE ONLY FIX IS TO REPLACE THE HARD DRIVE OR TRASH THE COMPUTER. I'M THANKFUL I HAD BACK UP DISCS IN PLACE FOR MY SECOND BOOK WHICH IS A LITTLE OVER HALF COMPLETE. BE CAREFUL GUYS AND GALS ONLY OPEN MAIL FROM SENDERS YOU KNOW YOU CAN TRUST.

Please tell this person NOT TO TRASH HIS HARD DRIVE JUST YET!

If you are this person's friend, please tell him to do the following:

Turn off System Restore.

Then:

Run TrendMicro Housecall http://housecall.trendmicro.com/

Download and install:

ZoneAlarm Firewall http://www.download.com/3000-2092-10039884.html

Download and run:

AVG AntiVirus http://free.grisoft.com/freeweb.php/doc/2/

Download and run:

AdAware SE: http://www.lavasoftusa.com/software/adaware/

Download and run:

Spybot S&D: http://www.safer-networking.org/

Download and run:

Spyware Blaster: http://www.javacoolsoftware.com/spywareblaster.html

Download and run:

Windows Defender Beta 2: http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/software/default.mspx

Download and install:

All Windows Updates.

All of the above programs are FREE. Yes, this can be time-consuming. Cheaper and faster than trashing your computer and everything on your hard drive, though.

Add to this:

Tuneup Utilities 2006: http://www.tune-up.com/

This is 30-day trialware. Use it to clean up your disk and your registry after you've cleaned out the viruses/trojans/spyware.

I do not have any personal stake in any of those programs.

There's one more that I recommend. My personal interest in this is that I know the guy who wrote it. This is shareware (I don't make a dime on it, though):

Greyware Registry Rearguard (GRR): http://www.greyware.com/software/grr/

Shareware, like I said, but it doesn't expire even if you don't pay for it.


IF YOU'RE RUNNING A WINDOWS MACHINE, DO ALL OF THIS STUFF NOW, BEFORE YOUR COMPUTER DIES. DO NOT RUN A MACHINE ON THE INTERNET THAT DOESN'T HAVE SERIOUS ANTI-VIRUS/ANTI-SPYWARE/FIREWALL PROTECTION.

[astonwest]

Btw, you're right Jim, Lightning Source prints PA books in the UK, although PA tried to charge me shipping from the US (unsuccessfully) when I bought my 50 copies in 2003.

I wonder how many UK authors were indeed charged more shipping than they should have been...and also wonder if that constitutes financial fraud?

[Nexusman]

I wonder how many UK authors were indeed charged more shipping than they should have been...and also wonder if that constitutes financial fraud?

Actually... I wonder how many authors were indeed charged more shipping than they should have been...

-Nick

[James D. Macdonald]

Actually... I wonder how many authors were indeed charged more shipping than they should have been...

-Nick

All of them.

PA's shipping charges are outrageous. But that isn't illegal. If the pizza shop says "We can deliver your stuff to your house for $2,000" and you say "Okay!" then, well, you just bought yourself a very expensive pizza.

[Jean Marie]

All of them.

PA's shipping charges are outrageous. But that isn't illegal. If the pizza shop says "We can deliver your stuff to your house for $2,000" and you say "Okay!" then, well, you just bought yourself a very expensive pizza.
The difference there would be, the pizza is definitely better than the PA book http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif Okay, to be fair--9 x's out of 10.

[veinglory]

...have you every felt like you could make a great pizza, but those big pizza parlors just won't let your original recipe anywhere near their ovens? Here at Pizza America...

[spike]

...have you every felt like you could make a great pizza, but those big pizza parlors just won't let your original recipe anywhere near their ovens? Here at Pizza America...

We want to give your pizza the chance it deserves.

[Canada James]

Poetry as "contemporary fiction"? Is that in a similar genre to the "fiction novel"?

This is quite an exciting way to write a novel and very common with Children's/YA Lit.

One even won the Governor General's Award for this year!

James

[Duncan J Macdonald]

Still off topic, and will shortly be moved, but:

IF YOU'RE RUNNING A WINDOWS MACHINE, DO ALL OF THIS STUFF NOW, BEFORE YOUR COMPUTER DIES. DO NOT RUN A MACHINE ON THE INTERNET THAT DOESN'T HAVE SERIOUS ANTI-VIRUS/ANTI-SPYWARE/FIREWALL PROTECTION.Just to add: A year ago, the average life expectancy of an unprotected, unpatched Windows PC on the Internet was 4 minutes. The times haven't gotten any better since.

[xhouseboy]

...have you every felt like you could make a great pizza, but those big pizza parlors just won't let your original recipe anywhere near their ovens? Here at Pizza America...


And if you're like Kramer, you open a 'make your own pizza' outlet...

Family and friends might be prepared to savour your culinary creation, as prepared at Kramer's innovative new pizza parlour, but the pizzas aren't geared towards the general public at large.. You are your main customer.

But then, Kramer was nuts...

[Aconite]

Therein lies a story. Yes, yes, we're all terribly impressed by your Super-duper Secret Knowledge and Insider Media Connections.

Vague hand-waving and cryptic statements are pretty transparent. You may want to consider either giving substantive information, or staying quiet so as not to look like someone trying to be self-important.

[Aconite]

When you twist words around (which is done a great deal on this thread) you don't win the argument -- you lose.I marvel that you know what's done "a great deal on this thread," since you don't seem to read most of the posts, or understand the ones you do read.

I would also add to all British broadcasting media folk who lurk here that repetition absolutely loses the argument.What an utterly bizarre thing to say. Repetition does not, in and of itself, win or lose an argument. Repeating an incorrect statement, such as "PublishAmerica is not a vanity press," does not make it true, but it doesn't lose an argument. Nor does repeating a correct statement, such as "PublishAmerica is a vanity press," in and of itself win an argument. Repetition has nothing to do with truth or with winning or losing. That's simple logic.

Also, what an interesting agenda you seem to be here with: to give BBC lurkers an inside scoop on things they should already know. Like simple logic.

[aruna]

I think after the last $2 and $3 royalty cheques went out a lot of British authors may have reacted strongly and maybe even threatened legal action, and PA decided it wasn't worth the risk and negative exposure.
Of course, this payment in $-cheques is highly unprofesional. The thing to do would have been to open a £-Sterling bank account in GB and pay the British authors from there. But not for that amateur operation.

[NancyMehl]

We want to give your pizza the chance it deserves.

We're sure our pizzas will resonate with our customers...or we'll expect an apology!

DON'T TAKE THAT TONE WITH ME!!!!!

Nancy

[xhouseboy]

I have a random question. When I first got my choices for editing I chose to go with option 3, and let PA edit my work. However, two months later I was asked again if I wanted to change my editing option (which I did) and changed my option to option 2 (i edit it in seven days). However, it has now been over 3 weeks and I have yet to receive my manuscript for editing.

I am wondering how long it usually takes for peope who choose this option to get their manuscript?

I inquired about it once already and was told that they were responding to emails in the order in which they received them.





Author opts for full edit, but PA probably can't be arsed with the hassle. They then more or less suggest author selects an option that makes life easier for PA. Then when author tries to hurry it along (as, presumably, was the purpose for the change of edit), PA informs author that there's a queue, and they'll get around to her when it suits them.

We care about our authors. We treat them the old fashioned way - like second-class citizens.

[aruna]

There's a pro-PA Letter to the Editor in the Frederick News:

http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sections/opinion/display_lte.htm?storyid=47676

[Saundra Julian]

Well after all, he did say he was a lawyer.... (sorry Jaws!)

[spike]

There's a pro-PA Letter to the Editor in the Frederick News:

http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sections/opinion/display_lte.htm?storyid=47676

Another honeymooner

[Sassenach]

He says :I must suggest, as an attorney, that there is nothing wrong with a seven-year book contract, particularly because it makes it possible for people to buy a book long after it has been released, whereas establishment publishers will pull a book back in months if it does not sell.

Duh, counselor.

[mdin]

A response to that letter from another attorney would be very warranted.

[DaveKuzminski]

There's a pro-PA Letter to the Editor in the Frederick News:

http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sections/opinion/display_lte.htm?storyid=47676 Looks like a desperate attempt at damage control.

[NicoleJLeBoeuf]

A response to that letter from another attorney would be very warranted.Not that you're hintin' at anything, or anything. ;)

[Christine N.]

Blah. Another "poor me, I'm persecuted because real publishers didn't want my book."

Is it the topic, or the writing? I say this not to be a meany elitist that PA claims authors published through legitimate venues to be, but as a reader. I have read some of the stuff that PA puts out. Some was good... some was VERY good, and some was VERY bad. One read like a first draft - it had a decent story behind it, but overall needed help before it was even remotely publishable. If people could find the book, I'd be embarrased for the author, since people rarely blame the publisher for bad books, but the author they remember! But since PA books are barely a blip on the literary radar, there's little chance of that.

People do not have a right to have their work published. Sorry. Have a good story, write it well, LEARN YOUR CRAFT. Put in the hard work, blood, sweat and tears that the rest of us have and then, MAYBE, you're work will be published by those not after your credit card number. There are no guarantees. Be proud you got to "the end" and then do your bit of the work. A book is not only a work of art, it is a salable product. You've done a great thing, writing a whole book, but that does not mean that it absolutely has to be in print, nor does it mean that the big, mean publishers of the world don't recognize talent when they see it. Watch the first three or four episodes of every new "American Idol" season to see what I mean. Invariably there are those who believe they sing like Britney or Justin, and you and I know they're just plain awful.

There are literary equivelents, many many many. Sigh.

Sylvia may have published James Joyce, but I'd bet she didn't make him buy 50 copies of Ulysses at a 'get it now before it's too late, it's a real deal!' bargain.

Amateurs. (and I don't mean that in a bad way)

[DaveKuzminski]

It would be interesting if an arbitration company was sued by an outside party for not permitting the disclosure of its hearings on the basis that failure to permit disclosure assisted a scam to take in more victims.

[Lady of Prose]

There's a pro-PA Letter to the Editor in the Frederick News:

http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sections/opinion/display_lte.htm?storyid=47676


It's 3:45 pacific--is it too early for a glass of wine?

Since he threw his "credentials" out there....Gee, counselor, read that contract again. At the risk of repeating several others here, write the editor in six months and tell all of us how much you love PA.

[astonwest]

PA's shipping charges are outrageous. But that isn't illegal.
The trick would be in the wording...as usual with PA.
I would still think that charging a person for overseas shipping when the shipment was never shipped overseas would constitute fraud.

[SC Harrison]

Well after all, he did say he was a lawyer.... (sorry Jaws!)

He'll probably try to peddle his book to his clients, and end up losing real business in the process.

[DaveKuzminski]

Sounded to me almost like he was trying to give legal advice.

In fact, I'm not even certain he's a real lawyer since I tried Google and couldn't find him listed with a single entry anywhere. One would thing that his name would show up on a page somewhere that lists lawyers. Maybe I just didn't look in the right place.

[triceretops]

FROM THE PA MEDIA SECTION:



"PublishAmerica is causing this on demand revolution to march boldly forward in the book publishing industry. Using digital printing technology enables PublishAmerica to enjoy a wondrous success in publishing the works of first time authors whose works would otherwise stand little chance of being published. Although most published books are not stocked in stores, many PublishAmerica books are stocked. Barnes and Noble and Borders are our largest customers, followed by Amazon and Books A Million."


SORRY, MANY BOOKS ARE STOCKED IN STORES AND NONE OF YOURS ARE, EXCEPT VIA THE EFFORTS OF THE AUTHORS. BUT YOU'LL TAKE CREDIT FOR THAT TOO WON'T YOU?

TRI

[janetbellinger]

How many books constitutes many in this instance? That's what I'd like to know.

[Jaws]

I had to laugh at the "lawyer response". It doesn't actually respond to the merits of the suit, or of the article, and it makes a critical error in assuming that the contract he signed is identical to the one Dolan signed (I can almost guarantee that it's not). Further, he assumes that what was at issue was royalties on sales to the author, which is a misreading of both the article and the actual dispute.

Further, any lawyer should bloody well know that asserting "reasonability" of a contract provision outside the scope of one's expertise is at best fraught with peril. I wouldn't opine on a clause in a commercial real estate transaction; those with no real exposure to publishing law shouldn't opine on how reasonable various clauses in that contract are. Context doesn't just matter; context rules; and if you don't understand the context… which is something that any first-year law student understands after his/her first encounter with the UCC and its reliance on "commercially reasonable" as a touchstone for interpreting contracts…

As an aside, Googling lawyers is not a very good means of finding them or finding out about them. Use a specialty index such as Martindale-Hubbell (http://www.martindale.com), and be prepared for disappointment: these indices are nowhere near all-inclusive, and frequently don't even list full contact information. Remember that a lot of lawyers out there don't practice in big firms with web pages; for all we know, "Hansen Alexander" works in a bank's trust department, and may well be a pseudonym or reduced name (e.g., full name is "Hyram Hansen Alexander Jr.").

[triceretops]

Very few--they would have to be put there on consignment by the author, with a 60/40 split, which would still leave the author with a marginal chunk of the sale. The PA authors are begining to veer away from all book store sales as of late. The promotion tips in the new arrivals thread all have to do with direct purchasing from PA and selling at signings, coffee shops, work, resturants, online and such.

Tri

[Gratian Gasparri]

How many books constitutes many in this instance? That's what I'd like to know.

I cannot answer the question, however, I can share my experience since I make it a point of finding out how many PA books and titles are stocked in bookstores I visit.

Here in Sault Ste. Marie, Northern Ontario's third-largest city?

Zero books/titles stocked in the five local bookstores I regularly visit. This includes Coles -- the largest bookchain with a presence in our city. I also did not come across any PA titles in our public library system. I also have not seen any PA books (but I forgot to ask) at the big bookstore across the river in Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan.

In Sudbury, Northern Ontario's largest city, there are no PA books at the Chapters (Canada's equivalent to a B&N, BAM or Borders), and none at any of the Coles. I should point out at this point that it is easy to check the Coles and Chapters in each city. The two companies are owned by Indigo Books and little computer consoles are set up for customers. The stock for each Coles and/or Chapters is put into a searchable database that is connected with every other Chapters and/or Coles bookstore in the city. So you just have to pop into the nearest Indigo-owned bookstore and you can find out how many PA books and titles are available in your region from Canada's two largest book chains.

There are none at another independent book store I visit as well. Additionally, I did not come across any in our public library system.

I use to live in Ottawa, which is Canada's fourth largest city and the capital of the country. It has about a million people. There were about seventeen titles in the Ottawa inter-library system. This is approximately one per every two libraries. If I recall correctly, Uncle Jim had more books in the Ottawa inter-library system than all 17,000 PA authors combined.

With regards to PA books in bookstores, there were four or eight copies of one title in one of the Chapters. (I cannot remember the exact number, but for some reason I remember it was a number less than ten and divisible by four). There were none at Coles and none at any of the independent bookstores I visited.

The author in question was somehow connected to my daughter's school. I met her at a book fair hosted by the school. We were quickly introduced as fellow authors. I remember sharing what happened on the old NEPAT thread because it made me very angry.

The author in question is a respected local artist who got the idea for a children's book from a painting she had painted. She is also an experienced story-teller. Her book wasn't bad, and with a little editing it probably could have been picked up by a mid-sized publisher. Put another way, she already had a strong reputation in the local arts scene when one local bookstore from the two largest chains picked up her book. And if I recall correctly, even that bookstore only agreed to take her book on consignment.

Unfortunately, while the lady knew how the visual arts scene worked, she had only partial knowledge of how the publishing industry functioned. So she knew to avoid outnought vanity publishers and agents, but PA "pays a symbolic advance" and "does not charge the author to publish her book"... This is how she ended up with PA.

The poor lady had a table next to the Scholastic table. There was one other local publisher present if I recall correctly. Scholastic had discounted their titles by 40 to 50 percent from the cover price. Scholastic also featured recognized authors and characters like Eion Colfer and Artemis Fowl, Strawberry Shortcake, etc. On the other hand, the poor PA author was more well-known to some of the parents than any of the children. And between the short discount, the exchange rate, higher shipping costs across the border, etc, the price on her book was approximately the same as JK Rowling's entire Harry Potter series (years one to five) at the Scholastic table.

[janetbellinger]

Thanks for the information. I have managed to get my books into six local bookstores. Coles is the only store who actually ordered them from PA. The others are on consignment. I think PA should specify, when they say their books are being carried in bookstores, as to whether that is on consignment or not. I do not object to the fact that they are POD publishers. That is their business, so are the prices they charge. What does bother me though, is the misleading terms. Say it like it is, PA. Say we're a vanity press, and proud of it. I do not like deception. I would not have had my book published by a vanity press, had I known, but many authors would. Let the authors decide. I have a contract with PA for a second book to be published, and I have already decided that I will not do any marketing for it. I like to experiment, and try different ways of doing things, but I will not repeat a failed experiment. This has not been time well wasted.

[DaveKuzminski]

Essentially, PA is afraid that folks like you, Janet, will avoid them and that other writers will recognize that their books won't get into stores and decide that having a few copies to show off are enough. End result would be that PA sales to authors would drop to an average of probably 5 and PA would go out of business because you can't support helicopters on so few sales. Right, Willem?

By the way, Willem, thanks for publishing another ringer. Yeah, you published it. Your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to find it. Good luck. ;)

[Christine N.]

Someone on the PAMB asks about Lulu, and gets this in reply...

Lulu does NOT do everything that PublishAmerica does.

1) They do check manuscripts, PERIOD. PublishAmerica does not accept every manuscript, Lulu does. PublishAmerica does offer editing, Lulu does not (although will direct you to those that will for a fee).

2) They do not format.

3) They do not provide a nice cover. They do provide a nice little program for designing a cover, but you basically get something that looks like something that covers a school textbook.

4) They do not provide ISBN, presentation to Ingrams, or other such essential services (assuming you want to openly sell your books).

Lulu is basically a POD printer. You take on the responsibility of being the publisher.


Lulu also doesn't

1) lock you into a seven-year contract with weasel wording out the wazoo
2) send you letters that berate and insult your intelligence
3) overcharge for your book
4) talk badly about authors or other publishers
5) make their returnabilty so unreasonable that no one wants to order books
6) promise something and not deliver
7) generally act like slimy, smarmy used car salesmen.

Lulu is honest and upfront about what it is. You CAN get an ISBN through Lulu, for a little coin. It's not a bad deal, and you're better off than with PA, but not as well off if you went through an honest-to-goodness trade publisher.

PS- to this poster: uh, well, now you really think that PA vets its submissions? Obviously you've never heard of Atlanta nights or Purple Pony....

[janetbellinger]

It doesn't say where they are stocked though, does it? :D FROM THE PA MEDIA SECTION:



"PublishAmerica is causing this on demand revolution to march boldly forward in the book publishing industry. Using digital printing technology enables PublishAmerica to enjoy a wondrous success in publishing the works of first time authors whose works would otherwise stand little chance of being published. Although most published books are not stocked in stores, many PublishAmerica books are stocked. Barnes and Noble and Borders are our largest customers, followed by Amazon and Books A Million."


SORRY, MANY BOOKS ARE STOCKED IN STORES AND NONE OF YOURS ARE, EXCEPT VIA THE EFFORTS OF THE AUTHORS. BUT YOU'LL TAKE CREDIT FOR THAT TOO WON'T YOU?

TRI

[CaoPaux]

By the way, Willem, thanks for publishing another ringer. Yeah, you published it. Your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to find it. Good luck. ;) :popcorn:

[realitychuck]

Thanks for the information. I have managed to get my books into six local bookstores. Coles is the only store who actually ordered them from PA. The others are on consignment. I think PA should specify, when they say their books are being carried in bookstores, as to whether that is on consignment or not. I do not object to the fact that they are POD publishers. That is their business, so are the prices they charge. What does bother me though, is the misleading terms. Say it like it is, PA. Say we're a vanity press, and proud of it. I do not like deception. I would not have had my book published by a vanity press, had I known, but many authors would. Let the authors decide. I have a contract with PA for a second book to be published, and I have already decided that I will not do any marketing for it. I like to experiment, and try different ways of doing things, but I will not repeat a failed experiment. This has not been time well wasted.PA is based on deception, even when they tell the truth. It's always a misleading and slanted version of the truth.

Take a look at these numbers, for instance:

With more than 5,000 new books released in 2005, the company has seen fast growth.PA said it has more than 17,000 writers under contract with more than 130 new queries submitted for review each day. The company houses a staff of more than 70 full-time editors, graphic designers and publicists.

According to PA officials, an average of 500 orders are placed each day by bookstores across the country, including 100 from Barnes & Noble, whom they call their biggest customer.Those B&N numbers look impressive -- 100 orders a day (of course, it's ambiguous -- the sentence could read as saying 100 orders ever from B&N). 36500 books ordered by B&N each year!

But the math says 36500/5000 books released = B&N orders 7.3 copies of each PA title.


Even worse, B&N has 731 stores. 7.3 copies/731 stores = 0.01 of each title ordered by each store. So an author can expect an individual B&N store to order one of his or her books on the average of once a century.

And, of course, PA doesn't mention that these are all special orders -- people come in and ask B&N to order the book. The number of books B&N stocks without someone putting in an order for it is zero.

[Saundra Julian]

Mr. Baxter's delusions are running rampant again!

From the PAMB.....


I have never seen a Lulu book, but have read a good deal about them and visited their site. I've considered it, but have backed away.

The major benefit would be no contract and the author is able to set a much lower price for his/her book. But, I'm right back to consignment and would prefer the more traditional method of selling books. The Lulu cost to the author is number of books purchased. I don't believe Lulu has an upfront cost.

I've read their computer set-up system glitches at times, and of course like any word document "garbage in, garbage out." I prefer to have a little help with the editing, and would like to think I can confer with an editor about cover and other publishing aspects.

[James D. Macdonald]

From the PAMB.....

I prefer to have a little help with the editing,



Gee, Carl, doesn't your wordprocessor have a "spellcheck" function? Because that's all you're going to get from PA, dude. If you're lucky.

Let's look at some numbers.

Carl's book has 245 pages. It costs $19.95. Let's not kid ourselves ... Carl has to do the consignment thing right now with his PA book.

If he buys fifty, per contract he'll get a 30% discount, or $13.97 each. Total cost for those fifty, $698.25.

That same book, 245 pages, has an author cost of $9.44 through Lulu. Those same 50 copies would cost $472.00.

Out of the $226.25 difference, Carl could buy an ISBN and marketing package through Lulu ($140, to get an ISBN and get listed in all the on-line booksellers and available in bookstores from sea to shining sea in exactly the same way and to the same extent as a PA book), pay the copyright fee ($30), and still have $56.25 left in his pocket.

That, plus no "tone" letters, no seven-year contract, and no PublishAmerica name on it.

Let's leave aside the cost of the ISBN and the cost of copyright.

Let's say that Carl sold those 50 books he bought from PA at full cover price, $19.95 each. That would bring in $997.50. Subtract $698.25, and he goes home with a $299.25 profit.

To get that same profit with a Lulu book, he could sell those fifty books for $15.43 each. Tell me, Carl, which is easier: selling a book for $19.95 or selling the exact same book for $15.43?

Not that I'm recommending Lulu: I'm not. But I am saying that based on any measurement you care to make that vanity publishing through Lulu makes far more sense than vanity publishing through PublishAmerica.

(Don't talk to me about your cover, Carl. We both know that it's a lousy cover. What in that cut-n-paste mashup says "Comic novel about sharecroppers' kids in Arkansas during WWII"? What possible inducement does it carry for anyone to buy that book?)

---------

P.S. If you want to see a Lulu book, get a copy of Atlanta Nights (http://www.lulu.com/content/102550). A book like no other!

[Christine N.]

If you really wanted to use Lulu, you could probably get a better cover by co-opting some High School Art student to do it for you.

He gets his name on the book, you get a cover that actually used some brain power to come up with.

[janetbellinger]

I am not about to buy any copies at all of my poetry book, when it's released. I may have to say bye bye to that one, but I figure my time is better spent doing the snails pace rewriting I am doing of my present novel, Rain.





It's not a good contract. It gives little or no protection to the author. It doesn't clarify likely areas of misunderstanding between the author and publisher. It doesn't provide workable means for constructively settling disputes and misunderstandings. It chiefly focuses on exempting the publisher from any or all obligations to the author.



2. Contrary to what PA says, it is not a standard publishing contract. It's nothing like any standard publishing contract I've ever seen. Claiming that it is (which they do, constantly) is one of PA's more blatant and shameless frauds.

3. The contract's errors, omissions, and other blemishes aren't innocent. PA wasn't just being ignorant and/or incompetent when it drew it up. Their contract is deliberately deceptive. For instance, it's full of promises and descriptions that read one way before you understand PA's nature, and read another way after you've figured out that PA is just an exceptionally slick vanity publisher. Those do occur in nature, but not one after another after another.

5. And then there's Clause 24, which is a masterpiece of fraudulent construction. Victoria's description hardly does it justice.

There is no good reason for anyone, ever, to sign with PA.[/QUOTE]

[Vipersniper]

Your time is better spent finding a publisher that treats you right. As for PA and its contract well a class action lawsuit is now being formed. Two former authors Timothy Stelly and Argile Stox continue to write about PA on Useless-Knowledge which is a site that was pulled by Google. So if the bit about the you can't post anything on a site that writes bad reviews of PA is valid or held water, they would be paying five thousand. So think on that for awhile. I do recomend authors seeking a publisher come here first before going with them. The problem is now that the authors are receiving a letter showing that they sold no books. They are continuing to rip people off.

[Sassenach]

Huh? I just found them on Google.

[mdin]

I think they lost their Google news syndication.

[TracySutterer & GaryRogers]

I am still alive, kicking, and writing articles on Useless-Knowledge. Completely off topic - here is the link to my most recent article:

http://www.useless-knowledge.com/1234/06mar/article295.html

Argile Stox

[triceretops]

A BRAND NEW NEWBIE FROM THE PAMB. THIS IS THE FIRST HINT OF STRESS ABOUT THE REALITY OF BOOK SIGNINGS:


I have read and understood the mathematics behind (AUTHOR'S) post above. I am beginning to understand that in all likelyhood I will make absolutely no money from my book. In the end it will probably have cost me more than I make.

Tri

[triceretops]

SAME TOPIC, DIFFERENT POSTER:



This whole situation is like a catch 22. I scheduled a booksigning and bought my own books because the owner insisted on it. I paid $11 for each book, she wants 40% of the sale price. So for her to get her profit, she is pricing the book at $18.25. She gets $7.30 and I get a whopping 0. In fact I lose a nickle. But at least it is exposure. And hopefully that will lead to more sales outside of her place of business.

MY BEAUTIFUL WRITING FRIEND...THE ONLY EXPOSURE YOU ARE LIABLE TO GET IS THE FEELING OF BEING LEFT OUT THERE IN THE NUDE AS A RESULT OF THE WAY PA HAS STRUCTURED THEIR COMPANY. IT'S WIN-WIN FOR PA, WHILE YOU ARE KICKED TO THE CURB, FA' SHEEZY!

TRI

[xhouseboy]

From the PA new authors forum.


i want the help of all poet authors by emailing support@publishamerica to sponsor a tour to promote sells and allow us to perform. please hit me back w/ a reply on how u feel or if u are interested in helping by emailing support.
_________________


And, of course, the answer will be NO - a sneering, contemptuous no, at that, although softened up in snake-speak - if they even respond at all.

It seems some are still falling into the pit without fully realising PA's business model. Con artists extract money from their targets. Very rarely do they ever give it back, unless forced to do so by the courts.

[spike]

I think now that, although it may be exciting to "play author" by performing a book signing, they do nothing more than promote your book and your name. http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=12036

Play author. No truer words on the PA web site.

[Bufty]

Good initial question, although not directed where it should have been. Anyway, poster's book-release date is 3rd April so she'll soon be in the other camp.


PAMB Why in the world would you go to a place that wants to make money for doing NOTHING? I don't think that woman was fair to you. It just makes me mad that she took advantage of you that way. I think I would have told her no. Although, the idea is to get your book out, it isn't to GIVE them away! The idea is to make money...even if it is only the royalty.

Do you have a Barnes and Noble in your area? How about a reading at the library? Book groups? There are lots of ideas in the marketing ploys.....

[Gratian Gasparri]

Thanks for the information. I have managed to get my books into six local bookstores. Coles is the only store who actually ordered them from PA. The others are on consignment.

Cool! I just noticed you're from Orangeville. I use to go on retreat there back when the Trappists ran the monastery. Did some of my early writing there.

With regards to your local situation, I've come across a number of fellow canuck who are PA authors. You're probably the most successful in terms of getting your book stocked in brick-and-mortar bookstores. Five stores on consignment? Coles actually purchased your books from PA?

Believe it or not, most other Canadian PA authors I have come across would be thrilled with half your success. Which is one of the reasons PA is such a bad deal for Canadians. Over-and-above the other problems, you're looking at an unfavourable exchange rate plus added shipping and handling charges. Thus the average PA book ends up selling for $30 Canadian just so the author can break even.

[DeePower]

PublishAmerica books are returnable except when they're not. And when they are returnable they have a 5% discount, except when they don't. All books are returnable, except the ones that aren't. For a book to be returnable it must be purchased through Ingram and returned through Ingram. If a book is purchased directly from PA then they're not returnable. PA books are offered with a 40% discount if purchased directly from PA, unless you are the author and then that's not the discount. Authors don't receive a royalty on books purchased themselves unless of course they do.

All clear now?

Dee

[janetbellinger]

Yes, Orangeville is a pretty cool place. Coles did order 3 books from PA. I was surprised, too. Maybe I just asked them on a good day. But I can't go through the marketing process again. Not with $0.00 royalty cheques, like the last one. I just think that was a little unkind of PA. Why couldn't they just have sent a statement saying I didn't sell any books?

Janet

[Gabriele]

PublishAmerica books are returnable except when they're not. And when they are returnable they have a 5% discount, except when they don't. All books are returnable, except the ones that aren't. For a book to be returnable it must be purchased through Ingram and returned through Ingram. If a book is purchased directly from PA then they're not returnable. PA books are offered with a 40% discount if purchased directly from PA, unless you are the author and then that's not the discount. Authors don't receive a royalty on books purchased themselves unless of course they do.

All clear now?

Dee

Perfectly.

Can you do that next week, too? Since PA will have changed their rules again.

[icerose]

Yes, Orangeville is a pretty cool place. Coles did order 3 books from PA. I was surprised, too. Maybe I just asked them on a good day. But I can't go through the marketing process again. Not with $0.00 royalty cheques, like the last one. I just think that was a little unkind of PA. Why couldn't they just have sent a statement saying I didn't sell any books?

Janet

Because it's cheaper and easier. Just another piece of proof that they don't care about any of their authors.

[janetbellinger]

I tend to agree.

[Sheryl Nantus]

it wasn't always that way - for a bit of time you wouldn't get ANYTHING at all if you had no royalties coming in, leading to plenty of threads on the PAMB of panic and screaming as authors tried to figure out if their mail was just late or if they truly hadn't sold a single book.

this way the censors don't have to move so fast to delete threads - and you get a nice piece of paper to boot.

blech.

[postshy]

We have something in common besides being scammed by PubliSHAMerica. All three of my children were born in Orangeville and my daughter, who is now a teacher, went to school there before we moved to London, Ontario.

At first I was told by Chapters-Indigo (of whom Coles is a subsidiary) that I could not get my book into the database because it was published by PA. Chapters took twelve of my books on consignment (I made nothing) and let me do a local author signing providing I BROUGHT my own books. Coles was willing to do the same on the same terms. I later found out that there was a PA book in the database and when I tackled Chapters about this, they said it WAS possible to get a PA book in their database. As far as I know there is one other author from PA listed there, but her book is shown as "unavailable".

However, by the time I was advised of this, the honeymoon with PA was over and I had seen their true colours. I have had good feedback on my children's book locally but I now actively discourage sales. PA won't pay me my royalties and so I do not want my book ordered or sold by anyone. More power to you for what you have achieved. I bet if you had gone with a REAL publisher you would have had a lot more success because Chapters-Indigo is "picky" and the managers had to read my book before they would even accept it on consignment. Does that tell you anything about PA?

Good luck in your future endeavours and do not give up just because PA made fools of a lot of us. I just wish we could stop more people from making the same mistake.

postshy/Roberta

[Kevin Yarbrough]

PA sends out a catalog of all of its titles and it takes time for all of the online bookstore’s systems to be updated.

Yeah PA sends out a catalog of it's titles, it's called the 200 Authors Book. Since this "catalog" is new it might be a while before it is in all bookstores systems. Retailed for $24.95.

[icerose]

And don't forget the miles of bookstore shelf space these bookstores would have to add if they were to stock it.

How dare you expect your book to appear in bookshelves. Don't take that tone with me! Back, back I tell you or I will have you publically flogged for your nonsensical attitude!

[Necropolis]

[QUOTE=Kevin Yarbrough]Since I'm the first to post let me open this baby up by showing you people what PA has done in the past year and a half. Feel free to add if I forgot anything.

--Put out a book with Orlando Bloom on the cover.


Wholly crap! I think I saw that cover! It looked like Orlando Bloom to me, but I wasn't sure because at the time I didn't think they'd be daring enough to do so without Bloom's consent...and I seriously doubt he gave his consent. Was the cover of Bloom as a vampire? If not, there's another out there with his face on it. I would have never accepted such a cover. I'd be afraid Bloom would see it and sue my arse off...LOL

Cheers!

[ResearchGuy]

Yeah PA sends out a catalog of it's titles, it's called the 200 Authors Book. Since this "catalog" is new it might be a while before it is in all bookstores systems. Retailed for $24.95.
$29.95. But who's counting? (BTW, seems to me a PA author complained that the DISCOUNTED price for her order was still $29.95, 'cause they jacked up the price before applying the discount.)

--Ken

[janetbellinger]

At first I thought he really meant he couldn't believe it, and yes he would be correct on that.

[janetbellinger]

Postie, I may have got my books into 6 bookstores, but that doesn't mean they are selling. Chapters used to accept books on consignment but have told me it was a failed experiment. I can't say that I blame them, because from what I've seen on the PA boards, many authors are out for the hard sell, and likely badgered Chapters. (I don't mean you, Postie.) Of course, I would have published with a traditional publisher, if I had my druthers, but nobody was interested in it. But I learned from this experience, and mainly from the AW posters, to not send off inquiries prematurely, to make sure the mss displays its best face, before submitting it. I think there are all different levels of authors at PA. Some of them are brilliant. It's just that they are not getting the chance they deserve, contrary to what PA claims. Good luck to you, Postie. Hope you sell your mss to a publisher who will appreciate them and you, and reward you accordingly.

[Vipersniper]

You see people there is life after PA and Argile proved my point. Now here is one thing to consider. In all law, possession is nine tenths of the law. So if you did registrar your copyright and you have it then you are in possession of the copyright. Does this mean anything of course it does. For the copyright is in your possession which means that you signed the contract in your area. Which means that PA must in order to enforce anything in the contract in your court and your ballroom. Fortunately the Court Of Appeals for the Eastern Seaboard and that is in Richmond,Virginia. When I relayed that specific little tidbit, they backed off of me. But then I am not one to just let them off the hook.

There is another saying that I favor, where there is smoke there is fire and pretty soon the AG of Maryland will realize that with all the complaints he may just have a five alarm fire. Does this make sense to people?

[Aconite]

Vipersniper, no offense meant, but I'd suggest you learn more about copyright. It doesn't work the way you think it does.

[aruna]

Since those posts sometimes show ignorance on the part of the writer, the names are left off to spare that person embarrassment. The prevailing philosophy here is to help writers, not make them feel bad about having said or done something stupid.



.

Sone PAMB posts are "rescued" - ie posts which show that the author has woken up, or complaints against PA which we know will soon be deleted. They are saved here as a record. Usually they are saved intheir entirety, ie with author's name.

[Gratian Gasparri]

I think there are all different levels of authors at PA. Some of them are brilliant. It's just that they are not getting the chance they deserve, contrary to what PA claims.

This is another problem with PA. The quality is uneven to the extreme. I do a book review column and I receive stacks of books each month. Some of these from PA authors.

I have read some excellent work by PA authors, and I have read some terrible work. I have also received everything in between. Nevertheless, the only reason I know there are some decent PA authors out there is because of my book review column. I would never purchase a PA book for several reasons:

1) High cover price.
2) I cannot see the book in advance because PA books are not stocked in most bookstores or libraries.
3) I cannot impulse purchase for the same reason.
4) PA's poor reputation within the industry makes me unwilling to risk my money and purchase a book over the internet, even when the title and synopsis looks interesting.

[PVish]

This PAMB post probably won't last, so we better archive it. I wonder if the bookstores are instituting their own returns policy?

Has this happened to any of you? Back in October I did a book signing event at a B&N in Pennsylvania. The store ordered the books so I didn't have to bring them. Today I get a box from UPS, of unsold books. I had no deal with the store that I would buy back unsold books, but I did tell them that the books were returnable through Ingram. There was no note or invoice in the box. PA tells me I am not responsible for the books. So my question is...what should I do? I have no intention of paying for them out of my own pocket.
. . . and Carl, bless his heart, is there with an answer:
Are you sure the books are still returnable through Ingram? If not, then the store may feel you are obligated since you inferred they were returnable as an inducement to order.

A recurring problem with bookstores and POD books, are authors ordering books for signings and leaving the bookstore holding the books they can't sell. It is probably not an action you intended, but
something PA authors need to guard against. The best way to handle book signings is to order your own book and have it available without going through a store.

There it is again, PA lurkers: the advice to buy your own books.

[icerose]

I would be crushed if I recieved a box of books and a bill and had fellow authors telling me to fork out.

Thank goodness there is life after PA, I'm getting ready to sign my second script sale.

Onward and upward.

[James D. Macdonald]

With vanity presses like Vantage or Dorrance you have to buy your own books and wind up with your basement full of unsold books. Unlike traditional publisher PublishAmerica! With PublishAmerica you buy your own books and wind up with your attic full of unsold books. You see the difference?

Meanwhile -- for the guy who asked about GetBookReviews.com ... those guys are offering to send spam to bookstores! To thousands of bookstores! For only $199! Wow, just what bookstores are looking for ... spam! Spam sent in your name! Wow!

You want to get your press release (which you have to write anyway) in the exact same search engines that GetBookReviews.com offers? Go here:

http://www.addme.com/

Woo! I just saved you $199!

GetBookReviews.com says:



List Your Book In our Books Available For Review (http://www.getbookreviews.com/available.html) Section - $25

This is a great service if you'd like to get more book reviews for your book. Reviewers, editors, producers, talk show hosts and other industry professionals visit our site regularly looking for new books to review. Your book can now be listed to here for the media to request a copy.



Oh, horsepucky. Reviewers, editors, producers, talk show hosts, and other industry profesisonals get all the free review copies they can handle. They aren't out cruising websites looking for books to request. The postman brings a ton of books every day.

===========

Personal for Jeffrey: The reason your first book was accepted was because you sent it in. The reason your second book was accepted was because you'd bought enough copies of your first book. How good or bad your books might be had nothing to do with the question. There's no evidence that anyone at PA reads submissions before offering contracts.

I hope you're still as excited a year after it's come out.

[Bufty]

This fellow's accomplishment is to have had his second children's novel accepted by PA. From what I've seen on his web-site, the first one isn't bad at all, but it is barely out. Months ago, I did warn him against signing a second contract before gaining experience of the result of his first contract, but.... Time will tell.

Where are all the old timers who would support everyone with new accomplishments? It's just not the same lately. That's what these boards are for. Too many times have there been posts that have just gone ignored. I've seen it with my own posts and others. Not wanting to complain, just making an observation....

[NovelistInNYC]

Apologies if I'm posting this in the wrong place or if it's been discussed, but could someone tell me the difference between a company like PA and a company like iUniverse.com? Is there a difference? Is iUniverse more like, say, Lulu or Vantage? Not that I'm looking to use any of these as an option before I know for sure if I can interest an agent, but I know someone who had some reasonable success with iUniverse (granted, it was a re-print of a book he'd originally published pretty widely in paperback in '82, not sure of who the publisher was), and wondered if anyone could outline the difference. Again, apologies if this is redundant or if it's the wrong place to post the question.

[James D. Macdonald]

iUniverse and PA are both vanity presses. In that, they aren't different at all.

The big differences between them are in where the vanity fee is paid. With iUniverse, the payment is up front. With PublishAmerica, it's added to the cover price on a per-copy basis.

When all the fees are considered, for the usual 75 copies that both PublishAmerica and iUniverse authors manage to sell, the iUniverse author will have spent less money.

PublishAmerica has a seven year contract, and is very difficult to escape from. iUniverse has a much shorter contract, with an easy-to-operate escape clause.

iUniverse doesn't engage in false advertising, nor have I heard reports of verbal abuse of their authors, or tales of inaccurate royalty payments.

iUniverse is more like Vantage than like Lulu. But then, so is PublishAmerica.

==========

The person you know probably used the Back-In-Print program, which doesn't cost the author anything, and provides copies for the trickle of requests that even an out-of-print book will get. Those books are fully edited, of course, by the original editor, and already had the full cycle of publicity and marketing, albeit years ago. That isn't actually a bad idea for an author, assuming he/she can't interest a commercial publisher in it.

[NovelistInNYC]

Thank you, Uncle Jim (if this newbie may be so bold). http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

[janetbellinger]

When I read this post, I almost cried. When I read Carl's answer to it, I really did shed a tear. For all the talk about supporting each other, somehow it always ends up being the author's fault when things go awry. I saw the book return as a really alarming statement on what at least one bookstore thinks of PA. But I couldn't commiserate with the poor author, because I knew that I would be labelled as jealous, or shark feeding or something.

[janetbellinger]

I would be crushed if I recieved a box of books and a bill and had fellow authors telling me to fork out.

Thank goodness there is life after PA, I'm getting ready to sign my second script sale.

Onward and upward.
Yay, Sara.

[DeePower]

What will it take? What kind of wake up call? When do they finally get it? I give up.

On The PAMB

Austin

http://bb.publishamerica.com/images/avatars/1807643f4bf25aa60f.jpg

Joined: 18 Dec 2005
Posts: 102
http://bb.publishamerica.com/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?p=146656#146656)Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:44 pm Post subject: http://bb.publishamerica.com/templates/subSilver/images/lang_english/icon_quote.gif (http://bb.publishamerica.com/posting.php?mode=quote&p=146656) http://bb.publishamerica.com/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif Hey man what a deal!.. I would like to share this with you http://bb.publishamerica.com/images/smiles/icon_exclaim.gif
I received a letter back from Barnes & Noble today from the Small Press department. I had written them to inquire about putting books on their shelves. The letter I received was very cordial,informative and professional. The bottom line, Ms. Simowski informed me that my book remain as print on demand only because I am self published! and to carry it in their stores was not fesible being that their research shows that most self published books like mine sell only about 100 copies and that is to friends and family.....well my bottom line is that I am hard at work promoting my work....so there http://bb.publishamerica.com/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif
_________________
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Available now for ordering " Mind's Diary"
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HELLO! WAKE UP! SMELL THE COFFEE or what ever ridiculous platitude you want to use. Come on. What does it take? How "head in the sand stuck can you be? Barnes and Noble says that your PA book will not be stocked -- and the your reaction is "so there"

Dee - who is going on to another place- just don't have the patience for this cr@p anymore.

[Vipersniper]

Aconite no offense is taken but I do have a copyright and an attorney. I have my copyright in my possession as sent to me from the Library of Congress. I also have others but so far I have not sent the books to a publisher because the PA thing was enough poison for me personally. I cannot put down here the number because of the fact that I am part of a class action suit against PA.

[icerose]

Yay, Sara.

Thanks Janet.
And for the record Publish America did absolutely NOTHING to help me get to this point. The first time I queried an agent and claimed my Publish America book as a publishing credit the agent wrote back informing me that it did not count for me and actually put a negative feeling over my submission as they felt I would have wrong illusions about how the publishing industry worked.:e2cry:

Needless to say I did not get that agent and I have never mentioned Publish America since as it was so embarrassing. :e2beat:

Since then it has been of course a hard road but oh so worth it. And every step forward is a bit of a victory and the longer I am on the right path, the better my writing becomes.

:e2woo:

[Vipersniper]

Icerose you said a mouthful because frankly it was embarrasing for me to even associate myself with PA and I took off the name of my book that was printed by them. I now sell on request the book on cd to friends. At least that way I get my money and since I have the book rights back it is mine to keep and not theirs. Lord will this tragedy that beset the authors ever end? But I have one consulation at least now I can steer people here and they can get good advice and hopefully stop others from making the mistake that I did.

[icerose]

Icerose you said a mouthful because frankly it was embarrasing for me to even associate myself with PA and I took off the name of my book that was printed by them. I now sell on request the book on cd to friends. At least that way I get my money and since I have the book rights back it is mine to keep and not theirs. Lord will this tragedy that beset the authors ever end? But I have one consulation at least now I can steer people here and they can get good advice and hopefully stop others from making the mistake that I did.

Yeah this is when I wasn't quite sure on PA, I hadn't come to the full realization of what they were. I felt like such an idiot. It's been nearly two years since I have mentioned Publish America in any of my queries or resume. Such a horrible feeling.

Being associated with PA is like those underwear dreams but worse.

[TracySutterer & GaryRogers]

A Moment of Reflection and a Tribute to a recently deceased PublishAmerica Author:

http://www.useless-knowledge.com/1234/06mar/article311.html

Argile Stox

[Rambling]

I do have a copyright and an attorney. I have my copyright in my possession as sent to me from the Library of Congress.

I'm sure those more qualified than me will chime in, but the big thing to realise here is that copyright and the right to publish are two separate things. An author has copyright as soon as they write something down, and the piece of paper is simply a registration of that pre-existing copyright. The work also has a bunch of attached rights that the copyright owner may sell off separately or combined - first/second/serial rights to publish in English/foreign language in America/Commonwealth/other in hardcover/paperback/audio/electronic format, as well as film rights, merchandising rights, etc.

With the most common PA contract, the author is selling them: first right to publish in any language, anywhere in the world, for seven years. The author owns the copyright, but not the right to publish their book until the seven years have expired - they have sold those away (Film and merchandising rights are still the author's, I believe).

[JennaGlatzer]

A Moment of Reflection and a Tribute to a recently deceased PublishAmerica Author:

http://www.useless-knowledge.com/1234/06mar/article311.html

Argile Stox

Oh, Argile, thank you for posting that. I corresponded with Dave a couple of times, and he was a member here (DazzlinDave), though he posted only a couple of times. Last time I heard from him was in September, when he wrote a thank you letter to me for wishing him a happy birthday. I think this means he's one of our forum angels now.

Jeffery, welcome. I know that several people around here just cringed because of the "I read my contract" line, so I figured I'd bring it up... the problem is that new writers have no idea what to look for in a publishing contract, and if they take PA's words at face value, it all sounds very different from the reality.

To me, it sure reads like PA is saying that they're on par with other "real" publishers. They say outright that PA books have the same chance as books from Random House of getting onto bookstore shelves. This is flat out not true. The 5% discount is unheard of among real publishers, because it actually makes it impossible for a bookstore to make a profit from the book... so if a publisher has any desire to make bookstore sales, they offer about ten times that discount.

Again, new writers usually have no idea of what's standard, or what terms a bookstore buyer is looking for when deciding what to stock or what not to stock. They have no idea that PA is actually stacking the deck against them in every way possible, because they have no point of comparison.

Most of them realize that PA isn't like Simon & Schuster, Random House, Penguin Putnam, etc. But they believe that if they work hard enough, they can sell a good number of books to the general public. Then they wind up busting their tails for nothing, and feeling stupid about it... especially because of the number of PA authors who immediately say, "You should have read your contract..." as if they didn't, and as if they were somehow supposed to psychically know to be suspicious of all the weasel wording in it.

Thanks to sites like this one, PA's site has changed a lot since 1999 (?). The wording still stinks, but they've had to make some changes to the worst nonsense... and the contract wording has changed considerably, and there are plenty of warnings available for writers to find (here, and in newspapers, on TV, etc.). Consequently, the writers who sign with them today already have a better idea of what they're in for, in general. That's not true of the writers who signed with them years ago, before it was clear that PA was just another vanity press.

I'm just pointing that out so you understand that talking like that can really rub salt in the wounds of some of the writers here who are trying to get back on track and not blame themselves for believing the words of PA's staff. For many, the path from "We're going to give your work the chance it deserves" to "Sorry, I won't stock (/review) your book because it's POD, overpriced, unedited, etc." has been painful.

You're welcome to be here. The only real rule here is to respect your fellow writers. The second "rule" is to stay on-topic in this thread, and post in the NEPAT Overflow topic on the Take it Outside board if you want to post something not directly related to PA's business practices.

We've found guestbook slimers here twice, and they were both banned on the spot. One was a prolific but new member, the other was not a regular poster. It's not something we've ever condoned or appreciated, and frankly, it ticks us off a great deal to be dragged into their nonsense.

Everyone else has already answered pretty much everything else I would have, so I'll leave it at that for now.

[Gratian Gasparri]

A Moment of Reflection and a Tribute to a recently deceased PublishAmerica Author:

http://www.useless-knowledge.com/1234/06mar/article311.html

Argile Stox

Thank-you for posting this Argile. David is in our prayers today. May his soul, and the soul of all the faithfully departed, through the mercy of God, rest in peace. Amen.

[janetbellinger]

I will not say that "we're going to give your book the chance it deserves," might really mean: because we don't think it deserves any chance at all. I will not say that. I will not. It's April Fool's Day. Time to have fun, instead of being cynical. Why then, can't I get the above idea out of my head?

[janetbellinger]

I am not going to mention on any future submissions, that I've been published by PA. You are very talented, Sara, that's why you're successful

[NancyMehl]

If anyone is interested, David's Web site is: http://www.freewebs.com/tiredofyourstuff/index.htm

There is a guest book in case you would like to extend your condolences to his family. He was married and had four children.

Nancy

[Christine N.]

Oh goodness... THAT David, the T.O.Y.S guy! I didn't put two and two together. What a shame, he always seemed such a nice guy.

[Glenda]

He'll probably try to peddle his book to his clients, and end up losing real business in the process.

Where would a real lawyer have time to write a book. I would hate to hire a lawyer to defend me in court just to find out he took the time to write a book.

[Sassenach]

Where would a real lawyer have time to write a book. I would hate to hire a lawyer to defend me in court just to find out he took the time to write a book.


Scott Turow and John Grisham found the time.

[MMo]

Where would a real lawyer have time to write a book. I would hate to hire a lawyer to defend me in court just to find out he took the time to write a book.

Also William Bernhardt . . .

Mo

[Glenda]

Scott Turow and John Grisham found the time.
Also William Bernhardt . . .Mo

I wonder where they find the time. How much time do they spend on thier clients? Just a thought.

[icerose]

Thanks Janet, I'm trying.


Reading the contract? Can you say pact with the devil in disguise?

And did Miranda really resign or was that also part of the joke??

Sara

[Vipersniper]

At first I was ecstatic that PublishAmerica published my book. I went online and defended them and then I got my first royalty check. It did not match the sales of my book. So I went online and researched the complaints and found so many that it really put me in a funk. I know another talented author that writes really well. She had more books sales than I did and guess what? Her second royalty check was for zero. I then got a thing from PA that stated they had paid me such and such amount for royalties.

Guess what they had the amount wrong and I turned that into the IRS on my taxes. The thing is now they have erronously reported an amount to the IRS and I have proof of that. So what do you think will happen once all the authors who have received these bogus w2's are going to do? I really hope that it does not happen to you but take a word to the wise from someone that was burned, be careful. There is a five alarm fire going on over at PA and if they think filing for bankruptcy will absolve them from the lawsuits, they better think again.

[triceretops]

"I have my books at Barnes&Noble on the shelves in Memphis,
Evansville, Ind. Atlanta, Ga
They are really warming up to PA authors!"

This is another claim that PA books are in major cities hosting B&N outlets. Where is the descrpency here? It doesn't make sense. And I am in no way jealous or discouraged by this event if it is indeed true. If this has happened, the PA author deserves a big pat on the back and a dozen roses.

Tri

[DeePower]

Every time, without exception, when I have checked Ingram by calling with the ISBN, there have been no sales, or only one or two sales, of a particular PA title. I don't know why the PA authors claim the store is ordering their books. Perhaps the store says they are going to order and don't. Perhaps the manager orders and then later cancels. Perhaps the order is cancelled at corporate. Perhaps it's wishful thinking.

I know that stores can order directly from PA, but the author will often state on the PAMB that the return policy has made this big difference, and PA titles can only be returned through Ingram. Or the author will actually say that the store ordered through Ingram. And then when I check -- no sales, no order, nothing stocked.

Personally, I think when an author says that so and so store is stocking their PA book, it is on consignment, or the author has guaranteed that they will buy back unsold copies.

As far as the booksignings, again the author is most likely bringing their own copies to sell, or the store is selling the author's copies placed on consignment.

Sad.

Dee

[janetbellinger]

Well, I took the big step. I just emailed Publish America and asked them to cancel my contract for my second book, a poetry book called Silver Sighs. Should I have sent them a registered letter, instead? There is absolutely no way that I am going to buy even one more copy of my own books.

[ResearchGuy]

... once all the authors who have received these bogus w2's ...
W2? Not 1099?

--Ken

[Sassenach]

I wonder where they find the time. How much time do they spend on thier clients? Just a thought.

Turow wrote on the commuter train into Chicago.

People find time for what's important to them

[Mystic]

Many people say that they read the contract and got what they expected. I had an attorney explain my contract for me. There were some things I expected and I didn't like, but accepted as part of the deal. The one thing that my attorney did not forsee, and I didn't either, was that my book would not be stocked at any venue. I didn't expect anything huge--like my book being in Borders (thought I hoped one day . . .), but I thought it might be in the book section at Walgreens or at the little stationary isle at Krogers or something like that. I have to admit, the contract from 2001 was a piece of work.

My point is, that it is unfair to say that people got what they deserved because they didn't read the contract. There were omissions that made the contract misleading even to those who KNOW how to read contracts.

[Christine N.]

Getting your book stocked at Wally Mart or Krogers is actually harder than getting it stocked in Borders. PA just never bothers with the paperwork, and since they're POD (wave of the future!) the chains won't stock it. Why bother?

[triceretops]

Also, isn't the rack space confined at the the department and grocery stores? Aren't they set up for MMPBs? The quality trade paperbacks (6/9) would have to go on a diet to get in there.

Welcome, Mystic. And you're absolutely correct about the misleading contract information, being more blantant and tougher to decipher at the beginning, although it hasn't changed much today. Wasn't much back then in the way of warnings or even internet complaints.

Tri

[Gravity]

[QUOTE=Mystic... I thought it might be in the book section at Walgreens or at the little stationary isle at Krogers or something like that. I have to admit, the contract from 2001 was a piece of work.

QUOTE]

Mystic...I had one of those 2001 gems too. After taking it to my attorney for vetting (he's not a literary attorney; I learned my lesson on that one), I signed. When the book came out in 2002, I discovered that a guy at our church worked for Anderson Distributing, which at the time stocked all the periodicals and books at the Kroger stores in a five-state region. On top of that, my town, Cincinnati, is Krogers' world headquarters.

"Serendipity!" says I.

The Anderson guy figured a one thousand, eight hundred-copy order would be good enough for an unknown writer, and proceeded to place said order with PA. Correction: he tried to place the order. After a supremely frustrating runaround (PA authors, you know what I mean), my friend at last threw up his hands in despair. His parting comment: "I dunno, John. For some reason your publisher doesn't seem to want your book in Krogers. Craziest thing I've ever seen."

That's when the scales fell away, and I found myself here on AW, learning the full extent of PA's insanity. And it's taken me literally years, but the rights to my PA work were finally returned to me in February. Jerry Garcia, Mister Grateful Dead himself, put it best: "What a long, strange trip it's been..."

Indeed.

John

[NancyMehl]

Turow wrote on the commuter train into Chicago.

People find time for what's important to them

Grisham carried a legal pad and wrote during court breaks. You're right. If it's important enough, we all can find a way to do it.

(Yes, I know. Getting back on topic...)

Nancy

[DeePower]

Why would PA refuse an order for 1800 copies of a PA book? Well, they didn't actually refuse, they just didn't co-operate.

Here's a possible explanation.

Anderson has a 90 payment policy and accepts returns from the stores it works with. It also has to have a 55% discount from the publisher.

If your book was priced at retail $20.00 (I'm making the math easy for me), then Anderson would have placed an order for 1800 copies for a total of $16,200 (1800 X $9.00 {$20.00 X 55%})

If PA used Lightning Source - which is doubtful at a run of 1800 copies - it would have cost PA about $5 per copy plus shipping (.25 - .50 a copy) . For a total of $9,900 costs. That leaves a profit of $6,300, not bad. If PA used an offset printer the costs would be about $2.50 a copy for a total cost of $5,400, and a profit of $10,800.

Now why would PA forgo a profit ranging from $6,300 to $10,800? Because they would have to pay the printer at the time the books are ready to be shipped to Anderson AND they wouldn't get paid by Anderson for 90 days after they received the books.

PA would be out-of-pocket cash from $5,400 to $9,900 for 90 days. That isn't their business model.

Yes, I know I ignored returns. For this example it just gunks it up.

Dee

[NancyMehl]

My attempt at trying to place my book in Krogers is what sunk me with PA. However, I was lucky enough to get quite a few in libraries. I'll bet my name was bandied about with profane gusto in the halls of PA when those orders came in.

That knowledge still makes me smile...

Nancy

[Gravity]

Dang, Dee! In the Machiavellian world of PA, that makes complete sense. For them. In the author's world (moi), watching PA calmly refuse an 1800-copy order of my book was harder than hell. Oh well. They have their world; I have mine. And they'll never meet again. Thank God.

John

[James D. Macdonald]

I wonder where they find the time. How much time do they spend on thier clients? Just a thought.

You'd be amazed how much writing time you can make by setting your alarm clock two hours early, or by not watching TV.

Remember that one page a day (250 words) is one novel a year.

[Vipersniper]

I have to look that up but each of the authors that I stay in contact with received the same thing. My husband says it was a 1099. However what they said they paid me and the royalty check was a huge difference. So now what do we have?They lied to the IRS and they keep the balance of the books that they sold. Something else people have to check on, my book was listed at Barnes and Noble and PA sold them after I got the contract stating I had my book rights back. I know because I autographed it for the man.

No one here is trying to dispute Jeffrey's word but the authors here that have been scammed all felt at one time like he did. I was very vehement in my defense of them and then when I found out that the complaints were true, I felt so betrayed and did not write a single word for months. I did come here and started to read the posts, it is in many ways a comfort to me.

[endless rewrite]

Thanks everyone. I still wasn't really certain what to tell sell a bookstore manager, so I e-mailed the source (author support). I also asked for a copy of the policy to give to a book store. They e-mailed me back and said, "Your book is scheduled to be returnable through Ingram when it is uploaded tot he printer. No copy of the policy is needed, as the books are returnable when ordered through Ingram and any book seller may contact Ingram directly to see the status."

I talked to Walden Books. the manager said they do use Ingram. I also talked to the manager of a small Christian bookstore who uses a different distributor. Whether or not books are returnable did seem to make a difference.

I guess I'll just make a copy of PA's e-mail and give one to any bood store interested.





I feel so bad for this guy, he's trying hard to get his book into stores AGAINST the best efforts of his 'publisher'. PA lurkers - why do you think PA would refuse to do such a simple and practical thing as provide a copy of their much touted returns policy? I would be interested in hearing your views on that one.

[Mystic]

I had a vendor who bought my books from time to time, but he was never able to order more than 10 at a time. If he tried to order 20, the books would never arrive. I almost lost him as a book vendor because PA spoke to him rudely when he checked on the orders. He told me that he would order my books, but not directly from PA because they could not communicate with him in a civil tone. He was my best source for sales. After the return policy and discount change, I didn't have the nerve to ask him to continue to order my books.

[Christine N.]

"No copy of the return policy is needed." Sounds an awful lot like "There is no attorney in New York, and your accusations are ludicrious."

Boy they really know how to talk to people, don't they.

[Nexusman]

Heh. No copy of the return policy exists.

-Nick

[Sheryl Nantus]

"I have my books at Barnes&Noble on the shelves in Memphis,
Evansville, Ind. Atlanta, Ga
They are really warming up to PA authors!"

This is another claim that PA books are in major cities hosting B&N outlets. Where is the descrpency here? It doesn't make sense. And I am in no way jealous or discouraged by this event if it is indeed true. If this has happened, the PA author deserves a big pat on the back and a dozen roses.

Tri

and yet his website states:

"It can also be found in selected Brick and Mortar stores. I have no way of knowing which stores are carrying it. Browse your favorite retailer and see if I'm there. If not, I encourage you to request them to carry it or come back to the web and order your copy."

'nuff said.

[icerose]

and yet his website states:

"It can also be found in selected Brick and Mortar stores. I have no way of knowing which stores are carrying it. Browse your favorite retailer and see if I'm there. If not, I encourage you to request them to carry it or come back to the web and order your copy."

'nuff said.

I took his challenge, couldn't find any stocked in Utah and they wouldn't even special order it for me. They've had a lot of trouble getting Publish America to fulfill even pre-paid orders. And that according to their current discount they would lose money just to order it for me. They suggested trying their various websites to see if I could have any luck that way.

Oh and I gave up after ten bookstores saying the same thing.

[James D. Macdonald]

For the newcomers who are interested in just exactly what folks mean by "I read the contract," we have an analysis of the PA contract posted here:

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21345

[Gratian Gasparri]

And also, I worry that tradtional publishers will see my posts and think that if I make negative comments about PA, I might do the same about them, if they should choose to publish me.

Very doubtful. As others have mentioned, PA is well-known among publishing industry insiders, but not in a positive sense. Thus in most instances it would simply be seen by commercial publishers as a sign of having matured as a writer.

In fact, one of our members is a former PA author who got picked up by a traditional publisher. I remember her sharing the fear she felt when she received her acceptance call. She thought the publisher would change its mind once she told them she had previously published a book with PA.

The rep from the traditional publisher laughed and said, "By the power invested in me as a representative of a reputable publishing house, I hereby remove your stigma of PA author."

Anyway, your best bet is simply to not mention PA as a publishing credit or a publishing folly when submitting to a traditional publisher. If they're interested in your book, then you can confess your folly in your younger days.

[icerose]

Oh and congrats Janet, it took guts to ask for your rights back. I hope many great things happen to you! And I hope they return them quickly, but brace yourself girl, they aren't very nice from this point forward.

And someone else commented that PA was rude to a bookseller. What does that tell you?? A publisher can't even be nice to their customers.

Sheesh.

[janetbellinger]

Congrats and thanks, Sara. I am ready for PA. I already know they're not going to be nice, thanks to you guys. But it really isn't in PA's interest to publish the book of an author who refuses to buy any of her own books or market them to others, does it?

[PVish]

From the PAMB, an author posts about turning her book into a movie, but includes this memorable line:
As we all know, it takes work to get noticed. We do it everyday by mentioning our book(s), doing book signings and selling out of our trunks.
and this:
Only the lucky author's are contacted by a movie house or an agent. . .

If anyone really believes that mentioning/signing/trunk selling are the ways to get noticed--and that agents and movie houses (?) go in search of lucky authors--well, it's not such a stretch to believe that PA is a real publisher.

[PVish]

And another in the series of discoveries that brick and mortar stores just ain't interested. I recently approached a bookstore in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma about them placing my book on their shelves. I gave a copy of the book to the store manager for him to look over. He was impressed with the cover design, the printing of the book, the paper quality and the contents of the book. What he was not impressed with was the fact that he had to order the book through Ingram for it to be returnable. He looked in his computer and discoverd that Ingrams only gave a 5% discount off the retail price of the book, and it it was returned there would be a 10% restocking fee. I told him that he could contact PublishAmerica directly and receive the book at the usual 40% discount. After the manager checked with PublishAmerica he was told that any book purchased through them was NOT returnable. So, as a result my book is not in thier store.
and the writer consoles himself thusly:
Actually, I am kind of glad that it is not. After you do the math it is not feasible for us as unknown authors to have our books in a traditional bookstore.
The retail price of my first book was $17.95 so that means that the price a bookstore would pay would be $10.77 ($17.95 less the 40%). The royalty that I would receive is off the selling price of the book which is the price that the bookstore pays for the book and not the retail price. So my royalty would be only .87 cents. I never worked so hard for so little. If we order our books at our agreeded to price in our contracts, we can put the profit the bookstore would have made in our pockets where it belongs.

Now, will PA eventually pull this thread because it's becoming obvious to their, ahem, happy authors that PA isn't a traditional bookseller, or will PA leave this thread up because it tells authors just what PA wants them to do?

[triceretops]

I think they'll leave it up since it underlines their typical conehead credo: "Umm...consume mass quantities...ummm."

Tri

[DaveKuzminski]

Strange that no one has really pointed out that PA claims to be both traditional and revolutionary. Unfortunately, the answer is neither because it's a scam. It's not traditional because it doesn't seek to sell to customers like legitimate publishers. It's not revolutionary, either, because it sells to authors and that's already done by vanity publishers.

So, Jeffrey the Great, do you still like your publisher?

[astonwest]

I almost lost him as a book vendor because PA spoke to him rudely when he checked on the orders. He told me that he would order my books, but not directly from PA because they could not communicate with him in a civil tone.Back in 2002, shortly after my book came out, I had a Borders manager tell me basically the same thing after they ordered some copies for a signing, that they were rude and hard to deal with. I see some things never change.

[Ol' Fashioned Girl]

From the PAMB: I recently approached a bookstore in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma about them placing my book on their shelves. I gave a copy of the book to the store manager for him to look over. He was impressed with the cover design, the printing of the book, the paper quality and the contents of the book.

HMMMMMM.

I've been to those bookstores in Oklahoma City. Not one of 'em gave me the impression s/he was impressed with ANYthing about PublishAmerica. Even the one who was impressed with my book required that I provide my own copies for the signing... even invited me back anytime for another signing, adding that she hoped I'd find a REAL publisher next time.

[James D. Macdonald]

Ah, the Sour Grapes Author.

Actually, I am kind of glad that it is not. After you do the math it is not feasible for us as unknown authors to have our books in a traditional bookstore.



THE FOX AND THE GRAPES (http://www.bartleby.com/17/1/31.html)

ONE hot summer’s day a Fox was strolling through an orchard till he came to a bunch of Grapes just ripening on a vine which had been trained over a lofty branch. “Just the things to quench my thirst,” quoth he. Drawing back a few paces, he took a run and a jump, and just missed the bunch. Turning round again with a One, Two, Three, he jumped up, but with no greater success. Again and again he tried after the tempting morsel, but at last had to give it up, and walked away with his nose in the air, saying: “I am sure they are sour.”

“IT IS EASY TO DESPISE WHAT YOU CANNOT GET.”

[spike]

About a month ago I signed a 1 year contract with The Screenplay Agency.

This route takes me out of the screenwriting phase. My understanding is that they will find a producer who will in turn hire a scriptwriter. What I will do is sell the movie rights to my book to a producer. I don't know if this route will work for me or not but I decided to give it a shot.

PA lurkers: Please tell this writer that Screenplay Agency is scam.

This is so sad.

[Christine N.]

Ah, our friend Carl tries to tell someone why he's not self-published, and gets it wrong anyway...

ublish America is a traditional publisher. Its business model does not meet the definition for anything else. The publisher puts itself at financial risk when it invests in unknown writers and must rely on its authors to perform the bulk of marketing for their books in order to recoup investment costs.


Well, friend, you are correct - PA is NOT self-publishing. It's vanity. You even stated why. See the bold. You know that real publishers rely on marketing and publicity departments, not authors?? Authors can do their part, certainly, but all the stuff you don't see, like catalogs, more than makes up for what you do.

Good job.

[cwgranny]

Carl, Carl, Carl...

If, for one delusional moment, we decide PA is just like any other small commerical publisher -- then it would have to be the most God-Awful commercial publisher in the world. Now, the definition of a commerical publisher is that they get their money from READERS not WRITERS...so imagine trying to get money from READERS when you have a long history of...

* introducing multiple errors INTO a text during the "editing" process.
* changing policy to make it impossible for bookstores to stock your books without taking a loss EVEN when the books sell.
* being rude to bookstores trying to order books.
* refusing to fill LARGE book orders from anyone but the author ordering them directly.
* regularly not fulfilling orders in time for promotional events like book signings.
* sending out the bulk of the promotion to the AUTHORS THEMSELVES in the form of enticements to buy your own book...in fact, the only time they change their promotional mailings at all are when they are thinking of a new way to sell books to authors.
* mass mailing the same press release for every book.
* sending no review copies unless requested by the reviewer and sometimes often not even then.
* creating no sales catelogue.
* accepting books that they haven't read.

Now, keeping in mind that a commercial publisher sells to READERS...how long would such a publisher survive? They seem hellbent on HIDING from readers. And yet, PA is still here. Now they would have to be the most idiotic moneypit in the history of business or...they aren't a commercial publisher.

And well...they aren't. They get their business profits from the writers. That's vanity press.

[Christine N.]

Back to PA...
Currently I'm reviewing a children's book printed by PA. The book's not bad - it could use some work, but I've definitely read worse. It's very short - around 50 pages. Ok, some chapter books for the early reader are around that. There's no reading age listed on the synopsis, so I head on over to Amazon to take a peek. Reading age is listed as "all ages". Um.... ok. I guess some adults would like to get a quick read. The cover isn't bad either.

Then I saw the price. $12.95. $12.95??? For a book that has less pages that the first four chapters of my last book, which by the way, at nearly 200 pages (4x the length) retails at $14.95. Quite a bargain, don't you think?

I wouldn't spend $12.95 for a book of this length, not when there are others I could get for half the price or less. (Of course I'd have to find the book first; for the sake of argument let's leave that alone) I cringe spending that much on books for my three year old - but most of those are full-color illustrated hardbacks that I figure he'll pass on to his kids.

Wow.

[Sheryl Nantus]

and therein lies a *lot* of the problem - even if it's a good book despite being unedited and mangled by the PA spellcheck, the price is going to turn away a lot of prospective buyers from the very start.

it's funny how PA never tells anyone how much the book is going to cost until the two copies arrive on your doorstep and the letters start going out - then those family members who promised to buy your tome hesitate at shelling out twenty bucks for something that looks like a Kinko's reject. And those are family!

That $12.95 book sells from the PA site for $9.95, most likely - but still too much for a book of that size. Compare that to the excellent books put out by real publishers for half that price or less, and you see why PA supporters *have* to brag about selling books out of the trunks of their cars.

it's just EMBARASSING to try and sell it any other way. It's the PA business model - overprice them and have a return policy that isn't; making sure that bookstores can't/won't order them (or just be rude and refuse to fill the order!) and then push the author to buy their own copies (without royalties paid). Then the author has to try and discount books to even have a hope in selling them.

remember - you may not have gotten into writing to make tons of money but you sure as heck didn't get into writing to LOSE money - and I've yet to see a PA supporter that isn't in the red eventually.

'nuff said.

[James D. Macdonald]

That $12.95 book sells from the PA site for $9.95, most likely - but still too much for a book of that size.

The three buck shipping and handling fee knocks it right back up to $12.95. Why the huge S&H fee? Because PA isn't even hypothetically supposed to pay royalties on that.

[PVish]

From the PAMB:

I emailed published america five emails in the last two weeks sence I recieved my two books
One page 9 the book starts out and theres typo
instead of typing "Aunt" the text department typed "Auth"
there is like 7 typo's in my book
and here is there response from their email

Dear Ms. M****,

I responded to your email on Wednesday, March 29. We have declined to implement your requested changes.

Sincerely,

Jennifer Blaszka

PublishAmerica

Now tell me something- How can a person sell something with typo's? If they were little ones it wouldnt be bad but these are on the first page and they wont fix them

To the lurkers: This is just what AW has been saying.

[Banned-Aide]

I suspect that author will not be on the PAMB much longer.
Get ready to welcome another one into the Banned Aide club.
sigh...........

BA

[postshy]

I had to e-mail my friend in Maryland in order to find out the price of my PA book, which was, and is, ridiculous for a 60 page children's book, although it does have grey scale illustrations. She got her notification before I did. I guess that it is deliberate on PA's part. Keep the author in the dark to the last possible minute so that he/she cannot squawk about the price.

And UJ, with a S&H tag of $101.00 US to ship a tiny package of (50) books to Canada, well what can I say? Then to get shortchanged on the price is the last straw! By the way, I never said "thank you" for pointing out that error in the dates on my post. I corrected it but I did not catch it, you did.

Aconite, I did not say we should/or should not ban Jeffrey. I suggested he wanted to be banned so that he could strut his stuff on the PAMB and maybe persuade a few more people to buy his book because he was a "hero" who had AW on the run from his brilliant arguments.

Well, maybe we have him on the run:).

postshy/Roberta

[PVish]

From http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=12565 which some of us have previously referred to and tried to warn writers about:

His name is Jayson Lowery and he wrote a suspense/horror film entitled "LETTERS FROM CAMP SUICIDE" which he sold to an independant film company.

I liked his work and felt confident with him writing my screenplay and since he is a published author, he knows about rights and we have an agreement signed for legal purposes.

I already got some "be careful, what if he takes your work, can you trust him, do you have to pay for him to write this" stuff and if I didn't feel confident in his work, I would have never agreed to it.

Remember the flack we got when we told our friends and family about PA and getting published and how some of them looked into PA and sent links telling us how bad PA was? Remember what you did? I ignored them. I am published and PA gave me a chance and if anyone sends me negative comments about Jayson, I will ignore them too.

I knew I had to find a screenwriter to write my screenplay and when he contacted me, it was fate and I don't mess with fate and God. My prayers allowed me to get published and prayers got me the best job I have ever had.

I feel good about my relationship with Jayson and I recommend his services to anyone who is truly serious about marketing themselves and getting their movie on the screen whether it is TV or the big screen. You can get more information about him at his website:

www.lowerywriting.com

I will recommend this man to everyone.

The guy's website practically screams "Scam!" Well, you can't tell some folks what they don't want to hear. (sigh)

[LloydBrown]

One page 9 the book starts out and theres typo
instead of typing "Aunt" the text department typed "Auth"
there is like 7 typo's in my book
and here is there response from their email

Dear Ms. M****,

I responded to your email on Wednesday, March 29. We have declined to implement your requested changes.


The amazing thing is that the book is POD--all they have to do is correct the original file and re-submit to to Lightning Source. It doesn't take much longer than writing the e-mail that rejects the change. It costs nothing. It's just being spiteful.

[Christine N.]

Oh, and did you know that PA is now in Baltimore? Yep, that's what it says on the title page of the PA book I'm reading. PublishAmerica, Baltimore (no state or country listed, by the way)

Or is this common practice to just list the closest major city if they're not actually in the city? My publisher is in Pittsburgh, but they also have a Pittsburgh address, so I don't know what's common.

[General Joy]

Christine, my book says Baltimore on the inside too, but I don't think PA is actually in Baltimore.

[Christine N.]

I know it's not actuallly in Baltimore :) I was being facetious. I know they're still in Frederick.

[DeadlyAccurate]

The amazing thing is that the book is POD--all they have to do is correct the original file and re-submit to to Lightning Source. It doesn't take much longer than writing the e-mail that rejects the change. It costs nothing. It's just being spiteful.

Considering that the errors were not in the proofs sent to the author but ended up in the final product, I would be curious to know if they're spitefully adding in mistakes to make the books look bad. Otherwise, how does a fully digital copy end up with so many rather obvious mistakes after the final page proofs are approved by the author?

[General Joy]

OK, I thought it was an odd question ( I figured you must know they're in Frederick), but couldn't detect the facetious tone in your post :Shrug: :) Baltimore is my hometown, so I'd hope PA won't litter it by setting up shop here. Frederick is close enough....

[Nexusman]

It is actually possible to change the settings in the spellchecker and autocorrecter to change legitimate words into misspellings.

-Nick

[AnneMarble]

It is actually possible to change the settings in the spellchecker and autocorrecter to change legitimate words into misspellings.
You don't even have to realize you're doing this -- all you have to do is add them to the custom dictionary. I heard about a company where an administrative assistant did this by mistake because she didn't know the correct spellings. When she ran spell check, of course, it caught her misspellings. But instead of acting as a reasonable person and realizing she had spelled the word wrong, she would mutter "Why isn't that word in there?" and then add the misspelling to the custom dictionary. Of course, anyone using that computer would be in danger of using a seriously compromised copy of the spell check because if they used the same misspelling, it wouldn't be flagged by spell check.

This sounds like another case of an incompetent person who was in that special class of incompetents who don't realize they are incompetent. And I can easily imagine PA hiring an "editor" who messes up their spell check. Do you think PA would notice? Do you think they'd care? They're rude to bookstores that try to order their own books! So why should they care about their spell check programs, as long as their writers' checks clear when they order more copies of their own book?

And you thought all you had to worry about was spell check not catching misspelled homonyms. ;) This is yet another reason why running spell check alone does not count as editing. It doesn't even count as a quick proofreading.

[endless rewrite]

After sending the text department an email asking them if they still had the correction sheet I sent them when they sent me my 48 hours to read my manuscript, this is the reply I just recieved

Dear Ms. Milner:

The decision of our Text Production Department is final in this matter. All
books by all publishers will contain some minor typos or mistakes which do
not impact the overall quality or salability of the work.

Have a nice day.

Thank you,
Marilyn
Author Support Team
marilynl@publishamerica.com (marilynl@publishamerica.com)




Stop panicking will you EVERT book by EVERY publisher contains errors - what a crock of****

[endless rewrite]

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=12589

Thought I better put the whole thread link on. I would like to say - well done Mr Baxter!

[Nexusman]

And you thought all you had to worry about was spell check not catching misspelled homonyms. ;) This is yet another reason why running spell check alone does not count as editing. It doesn't even count as a quick proofreading.

Incidentally, PA had up on its website "PublishAmerica now makes it's books returnable!"

This message stayed like this until one of their own authors pointed it on on the PAMB, but the author claused the correction with "I guess we all need help sometimes."

Cripes.

-Nick

[janetbellinger]

PA doesn't care. They know they can sell the uncorrected version to the author, no matter what. And the sad thing is, somebody's going to post on the PAMB, defending PAs decision not to make the corrections, and blaming it all on the author. Bye the way, I mailed a registered letter off to PA today, thanks to you all at AW.

[DaveKuzminski]

White Raven



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 429
http://bb.publishamerica.com/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?p=147624#147624)Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:14 am Post subject: http://bb.publishamerica.com/templates/subSilver/images/lang_english/icon_quote.gif (http://bb.publishamerica.com/posting.php?mode=quote&p=147624) http://bb.publishamerica.com/images/smiles/icon_sad.gif I had the same thing happen to me a couple of years back. I kept a copy of the corrected paginated copy, but the book contained a couple of errors that was made somehow in the final set up for printing.

I would go back to PA and inform them that the errors were made somewhere between your final review and the printer.

Taking a hardnosed approach to error correction is not the mark of a professional publisher and I'm sure PA would not want to put less than their best foot forward.

Carl Baxter

Carl, just in case your publisher doesn't retain your golden words of wisdom about professional publishers, I thought it best to post those here for posterity.

[janetbellinger]

And in my previous post, when I said PA authors shouldn't pitch their books to schools, I didn't mean Lillian, who has had her very fine Trash Talk accepted for use in Canadian schools. I meant, well you know what I meant.

[endless rewrite]

Unfortunately you have signed a contract with a print on demand - vanity publisher. Namely Publish America. Most book stores will not deal with these publishers because they have a poor reputation for providing books etc. You might want to check out some of this information about publish america on various websites: WritersNet and Absolute Write. You will find as I just found out that I have been misled into a contract that I would like to get out of.



Hope to see you here Brady - well done!

PS Congratulations Janet, your work deserves so much more. (check out your User CP, I sent you some info)

[Sheryl Nantus]

ooh... that's not going to be up for long.

the sad thing is that this is a PA author who put her trust in the "editors" - she did everything she was supposed to do, answering all the critics in her thread who wanted to pin the blame on her for the typos.

now she's probably going to be banned and Carl, well... sweet words, but they'll disappear faster than a toot in the wind.

PA authors - WHY do you stay with a company that treats you like crap? I mean, seriously... you would immediately advise anyone in such an abusive relationship to get out and you persist in accepting PA's excuses. "All books have typos"; "WE are right and you are wrong" and so forth.

climb out of the cave and assert your rights as a human being to not be treated like crap!

[mdin]

The woman insists the errors were not in the proofs but appeared in the actual manuscript. My guess is infocenter is going to move it to the private board and respond with "Wrong, Jennifer. Blah, blah."

I'm pretty sure Lightning Source does charge a fee to make corrections to a file once it's been set up and put into the system.

[xhouseboy]

The guy's website practically screams "Scam!"

With a loud-hailer.

Screenwriters don't go touting around the Web offering their services.

If he's successful, he's already got enough ideas of his own to keep him occupied. Commissions, options on his own work. He sold a script to an indie? I note it doesn't say whether it was ever produced. I know of scripts that were sold (optioned) for token sums of a few quid, mainly so that the writer could get a foot in the door. No guarantees.

BTW, PA lurkers, whilst bona-fide screenwriters don't float about offering their services to complete strangers - Scam artists swear by that technique.

I hate to say this, but it looks like some people were born to be scammed.
They seem to like it.

[endless rewrite]

PA definitely is NOT traditional publisher it is POD publisher, just like dozens others. Advantage to us is, we GET TWO FREE COPIES and listings at amazon, barns&noble etc plus ISBN. Now you can compare:
Another POD publisher where you will do ALL the work (Formatting, proofing, cover design.) Which maybe ADVANTAGE, because I know EXACTLY how my book will look like. BIG PLUS: I can change everything at any time as many times I like!!! Soon as I upload it, it is PUBLISHED and you, the reader can order a copy right away. Oh....You set the price and royalties yourself. You want author's copy? YOU HAVE TO BUY IT just like anyone else. You want ISBN? $40.00 with listing on amazon.com So, from finishing your book to having your copies in your hand ... roughly 5 days, depending on where you live. If you think you can market it yourself, than it doesn't cost you a penny, and YES, IT IS SELF PUBLISHING.
_________________

I just know these are going to be zapped soon, so please do forgive my copy and paste frenzy. Plus I am avoiding another tiresome rewrite.

[Christine N.]

I think we'd better pull up a chair...

After sending the text department an email asking them if they still had the correction sheet I sent them when they sent me my 48 hours to read my manuscript, this is the reply I just recieved

Dear Ms. Milner:

The decision of our Text Production Department is final in this matter. All
books by all publishers will contain some minor typos or mistakes which do
not impact the overall quality or salability of the work.

Have a nice day.

Thank you,
Marilyn
Author Support Team


This is a separate thread started. Form letters, form responses, form insults.

[janetbellinger]

"The topic you requested does not exist."
PAMB

[Sheryl Nantus]

and BOTH threads are gone!

w00t!

PA authors - try and justify this heavy-handed censorship of one of your own. She wasn't being nasty, she was trying to ask some tough questions and got slapped down like a kid misbehaving in a candy store. What sort of company does this to their authors; their ADULT authors?

[Banned-Aide]

Ya gotta love it when PA kicks you in the teeth and has the moxie to end their snotty email with:
Have a nice day.

How is that possible when you've just been treated like crap?
Defies logical thinking.

BA

[priceless1]

I'm pretty sure Lightning Source does charge a fee to make corrections to a file once it's been set up and put into the system.

I have no idea what LSI does, as we don't use them. But any printer will charge you a fee for submitting a new file, be it cover art or text file. It's to be expected because the galleys are never perfect, no matter how much we may wish they were. And you always have to submit the final cover art for the print run, which is a fee.

[priceless1]

After sending the text department an email asking them if they still had the correction sheet I sent them when they sent me my 48 hours to read my manuscript, this is the reply I just recieved

Dear Ms. Milner:

The decision of our Text Production Department is final in this matter. All
books by all publishers will contain some minor typos or mistakes which do
not impact the overall quality or salability of the work.

Have a nice day.

Thank you,
Marilyn
Author Support Team

Hmm. Obviously Marilyn hasn't had the pleasure of talking to a reviewer. While visiting New York (something I highly recommend - lovely, lovely, lovely) I just had a very nice meeting with Wilda Williams, chief fiction editor, at Library Journal this morning, and this is one of the items we discussed. Nothing says toss out more than a book that is laced with typos and errors, cheap cover design, poor quality, lack of galley cover that has all the pertinent information on the back cover, and proper lead time.

[janetbellinger]

Hope to see you here Brady - well done!

PS Congratulations Janet, your work deserves so much more. (check out your User CP, I sent you some info)

Thanks so much for your help and support. I'm going to check out the magazine lead. Thanks to everybody who left messages on my user cp. You are all very wonderful to care so much that you devote precious writing time to warning other authors.

Janet

[Bufty]

This is just plain sad. They keep coming. A seemingly accomplished artist with their first children's book due out in June. And already delighted to have signed a second contract with PA. This writer, I am sure, expects their books to be readily available to kids and at a price they can afford. But plenty of folk here know the cruel reality that's waiting down the road.

A couple of glaring punctuation errors on the relative Web-site, if any lurkers wish to alert her.

I am so excited to be part of Publish America's family. Being a published author is outstanding and now I have just learned that Publish America is going to publish my second book "The North Wind Blew".

[PVish]

With a loud-hailer.

Screenwriters don't go touting around the Web offering their services.

If he's successful, he's already got enough ideas of his own to keep him occupied. Commissions, options on his own work. He sold a script to an indie? I note it doesn't say whether it was ever produced. I know of scripts that were sold (optioned) for token sums of a few quid, mainly so that the writer could get a foot in the door. No guarantees.

BTW, PA lurkers, whilst bona-fide screenwriters don't float about offering their services to complete strangers - Scam artists swear by that technique.

I hate to say this, but it looks like some people were born to be scammed.
They seem to like it.

Just for the heck of it, I Googled the title that the PA author said this Jayson guy sold to an Independent Film Company. Came up dry--not an electronic trace of the title on the Internet.

PA authors: Learn to Google. Please!

[xhouseboy]

Just for the heck of it, I Googled the title that the PA author said this Jayson guy sold to an Independent Film Company. Came up dry--not an electronic trace of the title on the Internet.



From the PAMB


I recently recieved an email from Jayson stating that he has read alot about my first book ****** and would like to work with me on the screen play for it....I was wondering what he charges and is he as good as you say he is????

I would love to see ***** on the big screen, everyone that has read it has said that it would be perfect as a movie...


Jayson seems intent on hoovering more than one PA victim up.

It seems that he contacts the original PA poster and asks her what she would like kept in the movie, and what she would like to go, and then takes it from there.

He appears to be working on her instructions, and she freely admits to knowing nothing about the craft (but she is paying him). He sounds as far from a proven screenwriter as it's possible to get.

PA lurkers, please, please boot this shyster's arse into touch. Bottom line - he lightens your pockets, and you've then got a screenplay that will prove more difficult to sell than your book.

[Sheryl Nantus]

if it seems like it's too good to be true... it probably is.

:(

and if it costs you money... it most definitely is!

wonder how many other PA authors are going to be scammed by this joker before they wise up?

*sighs*

[Christine N.]

Just reposting this...

PA definitely is NOT traditional publisher it is POD publisher, just like dozens others. Advantage to us is, we GET TWO FREE COPIES and listings at amazon, barns&noble etc plus ISBN. Now you can compare:
Another POD publisher where you will do ALL the work (Formatting, proofing, cover design.) Which maybe ADVANTAGE, because I know EXACTLY how my book will look like. BIG PLUS: I can change everything at any time as many times I like!!! Soon as I upload it, it is PUBLISHED and you, the reader can order a copy right away. Oh....You set the price and royalties yourself. You want author's copy? YOU HAVE TO BUY IT just like anyone else. You want ISBN? $40.00 with listing on amazon.com So, from finishing your book to having your copies in your hand ... roughly 5 days, depending on where you live. If you think you can market it yourself, than it doesn't cost you a penny, and YES, IT IS SELF PUBLISHING.


Because, while the 'self-publishing' thread remains, THIS post has done a Margaret Mitchell. It's Gone with the Wind.

How do you feel, lurkers? That PA takes the one truthful post (or even just the one with an opposing viewpoint) and deletes it, leaving all the "PA is great, rah-rah" crap.

[Nexusman]

I wish I knew what I had done to get banned. I don't remember sending anything very controversial. Perhaps I didn't "Rah, Rah" enough. I never was much of a cheer leader.

It might be boolean to creating an AW account. :Shrug:

-Nick

[Gravity]

Mystic...the Great and Mighty Oz (otherwise known as InfoSnot) knows all and sees all. Put another way, they're much like Santa: they know when a PA author is sleeping, they when that same author is awake...and they sure as spit know when a PA author posts here on AW. Do it just once, and unless Willy's ill-paid censor is sleeping, you're toast. So you're banned? Most of us here were (and are). Wear your banning proudly. Heck, I think we still even have T-shirts (somebody check the warehouse, make sure we still have T-shirts).

Look at it this way: in a literary sense, it's April, 1940. The cherry blossoms have fallen, the sky is darkening, and the sound of jackboots tramping down the boulevard is heard. You're either with the Vichy French (booo!), or the Resistance (yay!).

You've chosen well, Grasshopper.

John
Vive le Resistance!

[janetbellinger]

I could be wrong, but that's probably why. I didn't say much either. I tried to enourage one poster, who had been turned down by PA for his third book, because of weak sales, by telling him to keep working on improving his book and submitting.[elsewhere.] I didn't even say what I thought, that he was lucky he'd been turned down. But everybody started telling him to forget about the third book and concentrate harder on marketing the two previous ones. Also, I said PA is a vanity publisher, but I said it politely. Anyways, I don't care. Posting there just prevented me from developing my writing. I get more out of the boards here, where you can actually learn how to improve your writing, and get real leads, to markets that actually pay you.

[icerose]

Wow they aren't still feeding that line about how.

"you're not banned, your password was lost by our staff."

Seriously that's what they told me. Then they replaced my password after a 3 week or something like that probation period (after threatening me to remove my post on my OWN FORUM about them banning me, which I didn't do.)

They gave me the password RAINBOW Think they were trying to give me a hint or something?? I only lasted like a couple of weeks after that when I posted their facts and figures broken down to show that there were only an average of like 5 sales to each author. Then I wrote them asking how they had managed to lose my password yet again.

Hehe, well lets just say they didn't use that excuse with me again.

Sara

[janetbellinger]

Yep. The thing that's so aggravating about it all, is that they (PA) go to so much trouble, just to misrepresent themselves. It must be difficult to keep all their stories straight, but maybe not, because it's always the same story. I mean, if they're going to keep us off their message boards, can't they have the integrity to own up to it?

[Canada James]

I thought no such thing. I was only glad to find a place that understood--knew how I had been scammed, and wanted to help.

That's why you didn't think you "picked up this board": you came here knowing it was a scam.

Perhaps I should have said, "Every Happy PA Author (TM) thinks they pick up..."

Canada James

[Vipersniper]

I have been thrown out of far better dumps than PA so a ban is really just an insignificant ant to me. Well I trust some of the authors that got the famous PA ban have found better places to write for. By the way how old is this kid? Jeffrey that is.

[aruna]

With a loud-hailer.

Screenwriters don't go touting around the Web offering their services.

If he's successful, he's already got enough ideas of his own to keep him occupied. Commissions, options on his own work. He sold a script to an indie? I note it doesn't say whether it was ever produced. I know of scripts that were sold (optioned) for token sums of a few quid, mainly so that the writer could get a foot in the door. No guarantees.

BTW, PA lurkers, whilst bona-fide screenwriters don't float about offering their services to complete strangers - Scam artists swear by that technique.
.

This needs to be repeated for emphasis. Lurkers - it seems that this person has closed her ears to good sense but this is NOT the way screenwriting works. If you think getting published is difficult, multiply that by a hundred and you'll get Hollywood. Authentic screenwriters are not scouring discussion boards looking for work - LA is already teeming with hundreds of thousands of unmade, unoptioned screenplays and ideas for screenplays.

And yes, novels do get made into movies. But the way this happens is that when you have a legitimate publisher your agent will contact a script agent and they take it from there. Even if your PA book would make the best movie since Gone with the Wind - your chances of getting it made by employing some unknown "screenwriter" (WHAT ARE HIS CREDITS???) to write it are less than zilch.

The proper is to get a commercial publisher and take it from there.

[Aconite]

New members and lurkers: Be sure to check the NEPAT Overflow (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26568) on the Take It Outside board, where posts off-topic for the NEPAT are moved.

Unlike the PAMB moderators, AW mods aren't in the habit of deleting posts. We prefer to move them to an appropriate forum.

[Sheryl Nantus]

from POD-dy mouth's site... Monday, April 3 entry...

"Why isn't PublishAmerica doing what iUniverse is doing?"

http://girlondemand.blogspot.com/

so, PA authors - why isn't YOUR "publisher" doing what iUniverse is doing? After all, if you're not just a vanity press...

oh, wait.

PublishAmerica *is*.

nevermind.

[postshy]

I have still not received any royalty cheque or statement. Oh, I forgot - it is "lost in the mail". Another excuse like "your e-mail did not reach the intended source" and they really think I am foolish enough to buy into this excuse. The part that is even better is that my last few statements were for "zero", then when I threatened notifying the IRS, I got a statement in April of 2005 for a minimal amount so that I would be lulled into thinking that they had made a mistake.

Now, because I have threatened that I am monitoring their system by buying a book here and there and they had better not send me a zero statement, or I will immediately contact the IRS, they have lost my royalties in the "mail system".

Even better, they say they cannot replace the $0.00 cheque they intended to send me because it might fall into the wrong hands and a stranger might cash it (HA! HA!) so I will have to wait until 5/29 for a replacement.

PA lurkers, PA thinks you are all fools just because you made the mistake of signing with them in the first place. Wake up and smell the coffee or you will continue to be banned and receive stupid excuses like the above when you ask sensible questions.

PA IS SCARED that is why they try these last ditch tactics. Keep the pressure up, we are getting somewhere. There is a lot happening behind the scenes.

A little "rah, rah" on our side is excusable, right?:)

postshy/Roberta

[xhouseboy]

from POD-dy mouth's site... Monday, April 3 entry...

"Why isn't PublishAmerica doing what iUniverse is doing?"

http://girlondemand.blogspot.com/

so, PA authors - why isn't YOUR "publisher" doing what iUniverse is doing? After all, if you're not just a vanity press...



Because the con isn't designed to accomodate PA investing more money that they need to.

PA assumes that their authors have money. PA wants that money.

Carl's fond of stating on the PA boards that PA invest in their authors, that they take a financial risk.

That's probably true to the extent that most criminals take a small financial risk in order to score big. A burglar needs tools, gas for the car as he cruises around casing his intended targets. But in the end game, he's hoping to score big for very little financial outlay.

[Vipersniper]

I know that one writer who has a lot of respect on other sites certainly would not be amused if they told her that her check of zero dollars had fallen into the wrong hands. But she will find another publisher for her other books. She is now by the way getting a small stipend from one of the contacts she made in the freelancing department.

I got a kick out of that site you listed and yes he says he is 24. Who knows he made be looking for a girlfriend.

[pete-awes]

I was one of the unfortunate people who heard about this site AFTER I was published. Still, only 8 and a half years left till contract runs out, then maybe I can get a real publisher for my book the Journey to Nowhere.
Never go bvack to them if they paid ME.
I know I have sold at least 1 book for sure, even if they do send me a royalty letter every six months that says 0 royalties.
Just dont have the time or the energy to argue with them any more.
Pa should read Prank Agancy.

robin cushing (AKA Pete Awes)
www.poetical-verse.co.uk (http://www.poetical-verse.co.uk)

[astonwest]

...the author claused the correction with "I guess we all need help sometimes."This reminded me of Molly's response from her PA editor which she often quoted...I wonder how she's doing...

[astonwest]

Still, only 8 and a half years left till contract runs out, then maybe I can get a real publisher for my book the Journey to Nowhere.Has PA changed the term of their contract again???
:Huh:

[Kevin Yarbrough]

How do you get 8 and a half years left on a seven year contract, Pete? Or is the UK one different than ours?

Plus you don't have to worry about them paying you to come back, they don't pay their authors anyways.

P.S.- Journey to Nowhere should also be what you describe your experience with PA as.

[janetbellinger]

I like your site and your poetry, Robin.

[SeanDSchaffer]

How is everyone? I haven't been around much because of a decent number of new projects. Also, I haven't been showing my face on this particular thread very much because, on March 15th, PublishAmerica terminated my contract.

They gave me the Paragraph 17 line, after I told them I wasn't going to market my book for them any more.

I'll try to be around more often than I have been these last couple weeks. I hope you all have a great week ahead, and I look forward to talking to you all later.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/emoticonhi.gif

[mdin]

Congrats, Sean.

http://home.no.net/film2001/Filmer/B/Braveheart.jpg
FREEEEEEEDDDDDOOOOOMMMMMM!!!!

[SC Harrison]

How is everyone? I haven't been around much because of a decent number of new projects. Also, I haven't been showing my face on this particular thread very much because, on March 15th, PublishAmerica terminated my contract.

They gave me the Paragraph 17 line, after I told them I wasn't going to market my book for them any more.

I'll try to be around more often than I have been these last couple weeks. I hope you all have a great week ahead, and I look forward to talking to you all later.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/emoticonhi.gif

Congratulations Sean!

[janetbellinger]

Good. That gives me hope they'll terminate mine, too. You can do way better, and in the meantime, look how much time they've freed up for writing.

[Saundra Julian]

Congratulations, Sean!
Another author escapes the web of deceit! Yahoo!

[Glenda]

That's great, Sean, free to really do what you wanted to all along. Glenda

[billz015]

I feel like a dolt. I went and got a sorta-trunk novel published with PA so maybe I shouldn't feel like a dolt.

To me I did it for something concrete to hold onto as proof that I can write something.

I've been spinning quite a load of publicity(posting flyers), which is basically free. I've also scheduled a mass requesting at local stores, me and a group of friends will go and request the book at 5 minute intervals until they concede that perhaps it is something they'll care to put on the shelves.

All of my local stores are located around the mall so it'll basically be people going from store and store and requesting it. To me it's something fun to do, but after hearing about them stealing money I might cancel it, but perhaps the stunt will do something for me.

[pete-awes]

thanks for the compliment janetbellinger.
please anyone correct me if i am wrong, i will check my so called contract again.
But i thought the contract was for 10 years?
hope i am wrong, then ill be free quicker

robin cushing (AKA pete awes)
www.poetical-verse.co.uk

[Canada James]

What I figure is this, it'll be a slow Saturday for me at least and if any legal situation arises from it(harassment or some such thing[I'm worried about fines or anything like that]) I'll be able to spin at least some publicity(there's no such thing as bad publicity). Along with that fact I am moving away from the current town I'm living in 6 months and I highly doubt I'll get published a right and true publisher in six months.

We're doing one one run through the 3 stores, at least that's the plan and we're all just going ask if they have it and say if they order it we may pick it up when they get it or perhaps we'll just get it online.

You're not understanding how bookstores work.

#1- Just asking for a book does not mean there's interest. People purchasing the book means there's interest
#2- In order for a bookstore to willingly stock your book, they have to make money on it
#3- With a 5% discount the store loses money on every book they order. Why would you stock a book that you'll lose money selling?
#4- Even if some bookstore clerk does believe that they are all random people who want to buy a POD book that has had no publicity or reviews... well, see #3
#5- Your reputation is at stake. There will be no publicity except that in the employee lunch room when they talk about "the crazy stunt that POD author tried to pull"

Canada James

[Aconite]

please anyone correct me if i am wrong, i will check my so called contract again.
But i thought the contract was for 10 years?Pete, check your contract. The standard PA term is seven years. You may be closer to freedom than you thought.

[Aconite]

Looks like a lot of posts were ported to Overflow (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26568) last night for being off topic. If you don't see your post here, check there.

[endless rewrite]

Bonnie

Daryl Worcester, Bill Wietrick, Ceceila Davis and myself had a booth at the Kansas State Fair in Hutchinson, Kansas. I had to drive from Tusla, Oklahoma for this event, which I didn't mind but it was very expensive to do so.

You might want to really reconsider this idea. People do not generally go to fairs to purchase books. I dont think between the four of us that we sold 20 books.

Sure the expsoure was great, and we met a lot of people. We gave away a lot of bookmarks and promtional material so from that aspect, I was great, but the cost involved (which was a little over a $1000) made the event a complete bus. We even gave away our books in a drawing, PA donated some gift certificates and we gave away a television. It was indeed good advertsing but not very cost effective.

Even purchasing the books ourselves and resaling them was was definatly hard to make a profit of any kind.

Would I go to a fair again? That would depend on how many authors were there to share the cost. You would need about 10 authors to make it profitable and each author would have to help sell every authors books, not just theirs. The booth has to be manned every day from open to closing and then the books have to be returnd to the author the last day of the even.
To put it midlly it was a real pain in the butt




It makes me mad, these people are working so hard, throwing everything they can and cannot afford into marketing their books. I bet this post will go soon and they rest of them will just carry on encouraging each other in the delusion that 'this idea', 'this marketing ploy', 'this bookmark' will make a difference. Sometimes I can almost imagine how gutted and let down a PA author must feel when the penny drops, that they have not only thrown away their book and talent away on a disgusting scam but also time, money, determination and hope. PA makes me sick.

[Sheryl Nantus]

the problem is that PA ENCOURAGES their authors to try these stunts and DISCOURAGES them from trying to get their book in bookstores - the lack of distibution, the awful "returns" policy and the overpricing all add up to make PA's main client the AUTHOR, not the PUBLIC.

a legitimate publisher sells books to the public - not to their authors who then have to try and resell them out of the back of their cars or try to get them into bookstores on consignment.

[Sparhawk]

It makes me mad, these people are working so hard, throwing everything they can and cannot afford into marketing their books. I bet this post will go soon and they rest of them will just carry on encouraging each other in the delusion that 'this idea', 'this marketing ploy', 'this bookmark' will make a difference. Sometimes I can almost imagine how gutted and let down a PA author must feel when the penny drops, that they have not only thrown away their book and talent away on a disgusting scam but also time, money, determination and hope. PA makes me sick.

Wow !! That story above was heartbreaking, BUT that's what PA wants. The author is thier best source of revenue, and they know it. Publish America can tout how wonderful they are until the cows come home. The rabid PAvidians and "Aliens" can come here and rant and rave to their hearts content, the sad part is this: PA has been and always will be a scam. As long as there are young, unknowing writers to fall prey to this scheme, PA will prosper. Sadly, as I paruse the PAMB, there never seems to be a shortage of victims. I see the same threads rise and fall, only the faces change; GLobal Talk, Artist First Radio, Making Bookmarks, terrorizing bookstores and mugging passers-by. I remember the whole "Place our books with Hairdressers and Optometrists" thread. These people are desperate to promote themselves and are willing to work hard (Which I applaud). IT's hard to see such a villanous corporate entity profiting from thier (The authors) toil and efforts.

If Publish America really beleived in their writers, they would be th eones contacting bookstores and promoting thier books... TO THE READING PUBLIC, not merely to the authors and the author's family.

IT is truly heartbreaking that so many will be hurt by so few in the effort to obtain the almighty dollar.

THANK GOD I'm free of that Cesspool.

[Bufty]

Re PA Marketing -

Don't want to mention any names but one Marketing Guru on the PA site must carry a lot of responsibility for this.

He believes his own propaganda and evidently has both the time and the money to burn, but if he were removed from the equation there may be a lot more searching questions raised earlier and more frequently by posters - thus alerting potential newcomers when scanning the PA Boards.

[James D. Macdonald]

More on selling at state fairs here:

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=555673#post555673

[Merricat]

Has anyone noticed that InfoCenter hasn't made an appearance on the PAMB in recent days?

Any theories?