The New Never-Ending PublishAmerica Thread (NEPAT)

A. J. Luxton said:

Tell me if I'm wrong, but didn't the "Hershey's Kiss" author get told about her copyright problem *right* after someone mentioned it here?

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We see this happen time and time again. I can think of several examples.

Atlanta Nights was mentioned on this board, and they got their contract retraction hours later.

We talked about cancer boy's book on overflow, and PA removed it from circulation that same day, even though it had been out for a couple months.

I posted a link to Willem's helicopter business, and the link which had been up for years went away in hours.

Countless threads have been deleted and users banned only moments after appearing here. All of this is documented in Nepat.

In light of a recent PublishAmerica title which plagiarized Cancer information, at times word for word, It seems has forced PA to make a policy change.


http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=11248

PA might be learning what it takes and what has to be done to be a real publisher, but they're not there yet. They're a long ways from it.

Thank you, Mac and Aconite. We do ourselves no good by eroding our own moral high ground. The comments about "off his meds" were making me very uncomfortable in light of claims made that Attacking PA Authors Will Not Be Tolerated.

I'd like to also suggest...

[soapbox]

...that making fun of people's stated feelings is similarly unproductive. If the man says he's having a love affair with P.A., OK, fine. Taking issue with that statement serves no useful purpose--it neither breaks the legs PA stands on nor picks its pocket of ready victims. Making fun of the guy will only serve to prove PA right in the eyes of its authors: "See how mean those people are? Stay with us. We love you. We're your family." We do not want to push people into the arms of the scammer this way.

I don't care how much any of y'all might think "But this guy deserves making fun of! I mean, really!" You want the moral high ground? You earn it by not stooping to this kind of sh1t. You start with this premise: No author deserves our ridicule. The moment you give up that premise, you lose the right to call yourself any sort of author advocate.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

So. PA author says how much he loves PA and will send them valentines? Lay off and let him say it. Big deal.

PA author says he loves PA because they've given him the chance he deserves? OK, there we have something to take issue with. It's a great jumping off point for the standard lecture "Why PA Are Lying When They Claim To Take A Chance On You." Factually untrue statements demand rebuttal.

But emotional statements? There's nothing factual there to rebut. There's only one person's feelings and another person making fun of them, and that's a quagmire we all need to stay out of no matter how unjustified we might think the stated feelings are.

[/soapbox]

PVish said:

He thinks price isn't an issue?

Price is for anything that's for sale. If it costs too much, folks ain't gonna buy.

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I know that the whole "price isn't an issue" thing is a big part of PA's come-on to authors -- "Your book is worth more so people will pay more," etc.

I have a serious question, which is: do many of these people not go to bookstores? Or buy books on a regular basis?

My experience is probably different than a lot of people's -- I live in a metropolitan area and can visit several bookstores within 10 miles of my house. (All big chains, ala B&N and Borders, alas.) I hit bookstores at least once a week; I visit Amazon easily once a day. I don't always buy books, but I'm always checking them out. And I'm lucky in another respect: I have a fairly large book budget (probably because I don't buy clothes very often, but that's another story). If I really want a book, I'll get it.

Even so... I'd notice if one was vastly more expensive than others. A book that cost five or so more dollars than its fellows would make me stop and go, Wha'?

When PA's authors hear the "price doesn't matter" line, I'm surprised more of them don't say, "Wait a second, it does for everything else in my life."

NicoleJLeBoeuf said:

I'd like to also suggest...

[soapbox]

...that making fun of people's stated feelings is similarly unproductive. If the man says he's having a love affair with P.A., OK, fine.

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Well said, Nicole. Most PAers get slapped in the face with reality; this guy's gonna get socked in the jaw. That will be painful enough. He doesn't deserve to be ridiculed just because he's excited about his book and its cover.

<<XXXXXX, Please let me try to offer a little consolation here. My book is 463 pages and like you I sweated bullets over the concern that it would be too pricey to be competative. I just found out it will be priced at PA for $29.95 which ,no argument is at the top od the spectrum. But and this is a great big but, I've had a total epiphany when it comes to this whole pricing issue. We don't have to compete with the mass market sellers nor do we compete for the bargain basement shopper. People buy a PA book because they buying a PA author. Oye buyer is a more sophisticated reader. He or she is looking for new author,s they're metting us at book signings and at our local libraries. There neighbor works with us and is recommending our book personally. It's a special gift because it's signed and the purchaser can say I actually got to met to the author and he or she is a wonderful person. you see it's not at all about the price. Once you've sold a few thousand copies and it goes into traditional print the price will drop right in line with the big boys but unfortunately the special glow drops down too.
If you read around in these forums you will see several of my posts expressing the very concerns you have. I was so obssessed with price. Then i started thinking of ways to purchase larger quanities to offer better discounts through my website and how to promote my book and not it's price and I just couldn't care less now. Well, you know what? I'm actually proud that PA thinks my book is worth $29.95. Afterall they don't make money unless it sells so they want it to do as well as it can. The on-line book sources, as well as, the large chains all sell at a discount so that's going to factor in and remember how hard you've worked on this. Don't sell yourself short. Hey Babe, You're woth it!>>


I'm sorry, I just couldn't help but post this from teh PAMB! This really frightens me!! How much misinformation and denial must these people be in to really beleive that somebody will buy a PA book for thirty bucks !!! This is so sad becasue thero book will never sell with the exception of friends and family who'll drop thirty Washington's on an unknown author. An autographed PA book means nothing to the mainstream buyer. These are the peole that keep Publish America in business.

General Joy said:

I know what you're saying, MacAllister, but the guy is starting to make me gag, by calling the PA staff "angels" who descended from Heaven. Ugh.

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Hmm... Technically, wasn't Lucifer an angel who descended from Heaven? He just wasn't allowed back.

That may be a fitting analogy for the owners of PA, at the very least. Too bad we can't just do an exorcism. But it might explain why vanity publishers are legion!

Diane said:

When PA's authors hear the "price doesn't matter" line, I'm surprised more of them don't say, "Wait a second, it does for everything else in my life."

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I think they would, if they were thinking as a buyer, and about how they buy books.
And some do realise it will discourage sales:

PA board said:

I'm trying to find out if my book is going to be price-friendly enough to make sales. It is a full length novel, 400+ pages, and from what I've heard, the price will be too much for sales.

Do you know how they are priced?

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PA board said:

I'm running into the same problem with my new book, being over priced for it being 190 page paper back. I think it would sale better if it was smaller, which would make it thicker and the price was droped down $12. Glenda

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http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=11244

Those who are aware that it's a problem often don't seem to know yet about the other obstacles PA has put in their way. So, if they can overcome this one problem, it will be okay.
But it won't be okay.

The customer get's a "great deal" I make money. What's not to love? As unkown writer's,


Once you get known, you can drop the apostrophes.

Ken Schneider said:

In light of a recent PublishAmerica title which plagiarized Cancer information, at times word for word, It seems has forced PA to make a policy change.
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=11248

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Remember, a lot of PA books are written by folks who overcame adversity and abuse. (Stumbling blocks into stepping stones, remember?) Probably many named names of their abusers. Not long ago a young man had a book come out in which he said on the PAMB he wanted to expose his step-father. Haven't seen him posting for awhile, but I think he was one who wised up and got banned.

Odds are good some people who were libeled in some of these cathartic PA books heard about it and raised a stink. Naturally PA would want to keep this quiet. Probably getting permissions never occured to PA until recently.

Jerry Jenkins and Clive Cussler posted remarks about a PA book

Maybe they did, maybe they didn't.


Go to
http://www.publishedauthors.net/cgi-bin/fmmguestbook.pl?user=jerryminchew&group=firstgroup&action=viewg


And scroll down.

It seems kind of odd to me.

The PA author says that he posted a review on one of Clive Cussler's books on amazon and that's how Clive found him.

Dee

PVish said:

Remember, a lot of PA books are written by folks who overcame adversity and abuse. (Stumbling blocks into stepping stones, remember?)

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While this doesn't have anything to do with your post , I wonder if this is another reason so many PA authors are willing to put up with so much. (Besides not understanding how publishing works.) If you've had to endure horrid abuse and neglect throughout your life, then trying to sell your book to booksellers or at craft markets can't seem so bad. And when PA turns abusive, well, maybe some people just expect that from everyone because that's what they've always known.

PVish said:

Odds are good some people who were libeled in some of these cathartic PA books heard about it and raised a stink. Naturally PA would want to keep this quiet. Probably getting permissions never occured to PA until recently.

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Ooh, good point.

(Our) buyer is a more sophisticated reader.

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The PA buyer is a friend or relative of the author. Sophisticated readers actually read reviews in major papers and make choices among many possible good books. Odds are good, sophisticated readers probably frequently visit bookstores and browse among the many choices. Odds are good, they're well-educated and know what constitutes good literature.

Sophisticated readers are not swayed by brochures, bookmarks, door-hangers, pamphlets left under windshields, paid Internet radio interviews, home-made cookies, special pens, PRweb press releases, etc.

Interesting that few PA authors seem to buy each other's books, isn't it? A lot of promotion goes on over at the PAMB, but books sales are, uh, unspectacular. Many appear to trade a pdf copy with each other for reviews rather than sending out the book. I wonder how many books the average PA author buys a year—and how many are PA books? (Hey, lurkers: post this question on the PAMB. Thanks!)

A. J. Luxton said:

I'm also wondering what people like Icerose (congratulations, Icerose! Enjoy your freedom!) said here directly before getting their contracts suddenly revoked.

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Hi A.J.,
Thanks for the congratulations. I have been greatly enjoying my freedom from their stream of abuse.

I had only posted here like once or twice before and it was a long time ago. I had given up fighting them right after proofs to my second book came. They were horrible.

The cover was worse. It didn't have anything remotely to do with the actual book. They snubbed me (big surprise....not!) and recited that according to my contract they had the final say.

Before that I had offered proof after proof of their breaches of my contract, they threatened me, they tried to make me think I was crazy, they treated me like I was "Sick and confused" (actual quote).

They delivered my royalties late (mailed on sept 2nd)

And so on and so forth, I can't even list all the things they did to me.

So after all this I had given up. I was just going to walk away and ignore them, and before the second book was released, after my author copies came (I wanted to rip them to pieces...sad huh) here came two letters.

I don't think I will ever figure out why they did it, out of the blue, perhaps they saw me as a future arbitration threat, I don't know. (Had I ever gotten the money to file I would have been.)

I hope there are many more letters like mine going out to the unhappy PA authors.

TO ALL AUTHORS WHO LOVE PA...I hope it lasts for you because believe me, when the curtains fall and you see what PA really is, you're going to feel a lot of things. Anger, shame, betrayal, guilt, depression, and many more things. You will want to throw your "beloved" books out the window, shred them, hide them, and forget it ever happened. The stream of abuse that comes from author "support" will not end once you start asking questions.

My honeymoon period with PA lasted just long enough for me to tie up two books, less than 3 months. I have been fighting against them ever since. It is a horrible experience.

Another thing I have learned along the way...If someone is shouting that they aren't something (such as a vanity or POD) then that means enough people are saying they are, and for good reason. If someone is calling themselves the best thing that ever came along or that they are revolutionalizing the industry, all that means is they are pompous, and hateful, and the only thing they are revolutionalizing are old scams.

Good luck everyone!

Sara

Then I relized that the same was true about books. Good books are not cheap and cheap books are not good. Compare the cover of your book to other books of the same genre and you will discover that PA book covers are the BEST in the industry bar none.

The books are printed on quatily paper and the binding of the books is the best that I have seen. Besides that some of the best authors are with PublishAmerica. They are proud of our work and we should be too. After all, dont you think you are worth the money and that you writing is worth the price they are asking? If not, then why did you seek to have your book published?

If you wanted cheap, then use a vainity press and see how cheap looking it can be.

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More on PA's pricing.

Where do they come up with this pricing issue? Go to walmart and find bestsellers. They are often the cheapest ones! Why? Because they have sold so much.

Aconite said:

Ladies and gentlemen, comments about the man's mental health are out of line as well as off-topic. Respect your fellow writer. Talk about his work, talk about his assumptions, talk about his actions (in Overflow, if it's not directly related to PA), but lay off the man himself.

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Sorry. My comment was meant to be lighthearted and was not purposely directed at the author. However, in retrospect, it could certainly be taken that way.

I apologize.

Nancy

Hello everyone

I just got my author copies... I'm so excited... oops, wrong forum.


I had hoped to stay up to date with the new forum, a week went by and now it's up to twenty something pages. I am one of the PA lurkers I guess, although I have posted a few times in the past as the mood strikes.



Here's my story, I found out while I was going through WOC training in Rucker that a publisher had decided to pick up my story. I was elated; I had even forgotten that I had submitted to PA. At the time I had no idea of who they were, only their method of submitting was the least stringent. I only had a few days before I shipped off to school so I went ahead and submitted to them thinking, "What the heck?"



I had no experience with the refusals, or rejections, as I really never thought I would be able to publish. Who was I anyway? So when my first attempt landed me a wonderful deal with a "traditional publisher" I thought I had real talent.



Then I started digging, after I returned from school, after I signed my contract, before I received the advance on the book itself. Most of my information came from this site, there are others, yet this one seemed to be full of folks who spoke coherently about their problems with PA. There are other sites that are just difficult to read.



At any rate, I found out that I am not a talented author, just a person with an imagination that led him to believe that he may have some talent. I don't really have anything against PA, not yet. They haven't been rude. I haven't asked any questions. I am currently one dollar ahead of the game; if I discount the opportunity cost of the hours spent working on my book. I haven't bought any kind of the marketing material. I did create a website... call it my little tax shelter. I did buy one copy of my book, to see how long it would take to get in... I received it before my author copies. You can see a copy of the book cover on my web site at www.elixir-of-power.com ... seems like a nice cover, not what I asked for, but not too bad. Supposed to be a dragon flying towards you, blowing fire... the background looks strangely like Alaska...



I am working on the second book, working diligently; I want to be picked up by a real publisher this time around.



See, PA did do something for me that was positive. Perhaps not readily seen on the surface, but it's there. They gave me the desire that I simply didn't have before... I DO want to be published. I WILL make it happen. And I will most likely choose to frame each of my rejection letters on my wall, until I get that one letter that answers my dream.



I still have the letter that PA sent with the crisp brand new dollar bill affixed to it... I don't know what I want to do with it...



Coffee anyone???



allan

LaViers said:

I just got my author copies... I'm so excited... oops, wrong forum.

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I think you'll fit in well here.

LaViers said:

At any rate, I found out that I am not a talented author, just a person with an imagination that led him to believe that he may have some talent.

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Don't let your experience PA let you think you don't have talent. If you got this far, you may dang well have it. In fact, you probably do. (Writing a book isn't easy, and of course, just because PA published it, that doesn't make it bad.) As important as talent is, the hard part is acquiring the skill to use it. Oh, and the !@#$ perserverance. (In fact, I'm thinking of ordering some perserverance from eBay. If they don't have that, maybe some chair-to-butt glue.)

Or as some others might phrase this... Don't let those PissAnts get you down.

LaViers said:

I just got my author copies... I'm so excited... oops, wrong forum.

allan

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I admire and respect your humour and your style.

Ken Schneider said:

I assure you Amanda, if in fact I address you, your name will be in my post and clearly understandable, and there would be no question

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"Yes, Amanda. Your green light is on, down at the bottom, yes, right" there. Tell us what other books you've written and where we can find them.


Hum, sorry, that looks like my name up there. I guess I need my glasses changed.

Nancy, just popped in to let you know what my attorney said. First the contract. He said it was an author unfriendly contract, but was legal and binding on both parties. He also said that the arbitration clause would probably kill any change of getting them in a court room until I'd tried arbitration first. When I told him all I wanted were the rights to my work back, he said to send a registered letter, no emails, requesting the return of all rights and why. If the letter is returned, I'm to send another, up to three. Any emails I receive/received from them are to be copied and given to him. Also all proof of any expenses incurred while trying to promote, including the buying of any books. And any proof I have that all books sold were by my efforts and not theirs. He also wants me to get proof that I can't get my books into any bookstores except by extraordinary means. He's going to check out their website too in an effort to prove that I was intentionally misled. He was very interested in the fact that the discount from Ingrams was lowered to 5%, Well, it's a start. We'll see what happens.

I will continue to read this board, including this thread. There is a lot of helpful information here and I thank you all for the help you are offering to writers on some of the other threads to help us improve our work. Best wishes to all of you.

AmandaPA said:

Nancy, just popped in to let you know what my attorney said.

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Thanks, Amanda. Keep us updated. We're all cheering you on.

Nancy

Amanda

You can write to Barnes and Noble and probably get a letter back that PA books are not stocked and that yours specifically will not be stocked. Other authors have.

Marcella A Smith
Director Small Press & Vendor Relations
Barnes & Noble, Inc
122 Fifth Avenue
New York, NY 10011

You can find out if any books are being stocked by which distributor by putting in your ISBN number at this website.

http://www.bookmanager.com/tbm/?

You can call Ingram 615-213-6808 and get their automated inventory system. Punch in your isbn and you can find out how many books have sold through Ingram in 2005 and so far in 2006. You can also find out if your book is stocked physically by Ingram.

You can find out what the PA website said in previous years by going to
http://www.archive.org/web/web.php
and entering www.publishamerica.com unfortunately PA started blocking and the archives only go to March 0f 2005 and not every page is archived. At least you can see what the site said when you signed the contract.

It seems that some PA books may not be able to be ordered through a Borders store.

Hope this helps.

Dee

If I were AmandaPA

At this point in her conflict with PA, if I were her, I wouldn't identify myself or my books, on this forum either.

Dee