The New Never-Ending PublishAmerica Thread (NEPAT)

Nexusman said:

Forgive me for asking a stupid question, but...

What about Clopper's claim that PA knew AN was a hoax all along?

-Nick

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If he knew it was a hoax all along, why did they send an acceptance and a contract?

PA knew it was a hoax? Yeah... right.

Just they 'knew' Purple Pony was a hoax and Final Days was a hoax. Both of those bogus manuscripts were accepted and contracts offered.

I bet we could submit another ridiculous bogus manuscript in the morning and PA would accept it.

Dee

DeePower said:

I bet we could submit another ridiculous bogus manuscript in the morning and PA would accept it.

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We should do that every day. Set up an automatic e-mail.

Nexusman said:

Forgive me for asking a stupid question, but...

What about Clopper's claim that PA knew AN was a hoax all along?

-Nick

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He's lying.

DeePower said:

Just they 'knew' Purple Pony was a hoax and Final Days was a hoax. Both of those bogus manuscripts were accepted and contracts offered.

I bet we could submit another ridiculous bogus manuscript in the morning and PA would accept it.
Dee

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My elderly dog, who recently received his Editor's Choice Award from the International Library of Poetry, has four chapters of his novel done so far. He should have it done by next summer. Of course, if he wanted to write more poetry, he might have a book sooner.

That reminds me, I've got to go out to the kennel and hold a pencil to his paw so he can initial his approval for his poem to be set to music and recorded on a 3-CD set (only $49.95!) I'll ask him if he wants to growl a few more chapters to me.

James D. Macdonald said:

Atlanta Nights didn't set any kind of record. It sat at their office for over a month and a half, a contract offer hanging over it. They didn't rescind their offer until after we revealed it was a hoax.

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Sorry, I ment that I got an offer and a rejection all in the same day from them. By the why....were you one of the writers of 'Alanta Nights'? If you were....that was sheer genius! I laughed like crazy when I read about that.

JimmyD1318 said:

Sorry, I ment that I got an offer and a rejection all in the same day from them. By the why....were you one of the writers of 'Alanta Nights'? If you were....that was sheer genius! I laughed like crazy when I read about that.

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Jim Macdonald's the guy who came up with and organized the whole Atlanta Nights sting operation.

Stan, I come lately, but from your confessional missive I can say that I indubitably like your style, and I'll look for whatever you publish through "safe, sane and consensual" avenues in the future, be it no-nonsense PODs like Lulu or actual honest publishing houses.

PVish said:

My elderly dog, who recently received his Editor's Choice Award from the International Library of Poetry, has four chapters of his novel done so far. He should have it done by next summer. Of course, if he wanted to write more poetry, he might have a book sooner.

That reminds me, I've got to go out to the kennel and hold a pencil to his paw so he can initial his approval for his poem to be set to music and recorded on a 3-CD set (only $49.95!) I'll ask him if he wants to growl a few more chapters to me.

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Whoa! Kola Bear has first rights, I believe. *ahem* My Life Chasing Squirrels

He's not entirely sure about the sequence, but, The Early Years, Catching 2

I don't know about it being a CD set. Probably not. But I'm sure willie would love it! It's got drama, humor-yup. There's a scene where a squirrel goes up a bald man's pants leg, it's hysterical...willie would roll on the floor w/ laughter. Really. It would be #1 in sales w/ PA. Kola's great w/ marketing too. He could pass out biscuits and other kinds of treats. Squeaky toys too.

LloydBrown said:

We should do that every day. Set up an automatic e-mail.

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And use an auto-generated template for the whole book...

DeePower said:

Just they 'knew' Purple Pony was a hoax and Final Days was a hoax. Both of those bogus manuscripts were accepted and contracts offered.

I bet we could submit another ridiculous bogus manuscript in the morning and PA would accept it.

Dee

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Don't overlook that they accepted AND 'published' a plagiarized pastiche called Prevent Cancer Today. Who needs fake bogus when the real bogus is on the record?

Oh ... and recall the book that was pictured in their own brochure, a book that had a simple word in the title misspelled right on the cover! Amoung the Ravening Sharks. I kid you not. Featured in their own PR. Then there was the deleted by Nice-O-Matic(TM) intervention.

--Ken

I am on a few yahoo groups that have to deal with writing, so I decided to leave a message of warning about Publish America. Wouldn' t you know that today when the message came through, there were two other messages connected too. The first was about a lady who has just had her book published and is very excited. She is published on....Publish America. The second was just congratulating her. I found out that she was on PA by going to her site. She also has a book signing coming up:

I will be attending my first book signing in the near future. It is a group signing for PA Authors. It will be a large event, and we plan on having alot of fun!!!

The event is scheduled for March 18 & 19, 2006, Saturday from 11:00 am to 7:00 pm, and Sunday 12:00 pm to 5:00 pm.

Oh Lawd! I feel bad for these authors. I hope their books arrive. I wonder if PA put this signing together, or did the authors just get together themselves. I hope she read my post...okay, read my post, went to the site, and started putting two and two together!

Poor guy.

The answer to his question is $29.95.

Ouch.

PA author said:

]The event is scheduled for March 18 & 19, 2006, Saturday from 11:00 am to 7:00 pm, and Sunday 12:00 pm to 5:00 pm.

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An eight-hour booksigning session, followed by a six-hour signing?! Oh, that poor kid. She's in for a painful shock.

What PA does in theroy is a good idea. Giving unknown writers a chance to get their work out in print. But it's all of the other crap they do that makes it so horrorible. The price of the books alone is enough to keep me away from them. I would never ask any of my friends or family to pay those kind of prices for any kind of book I would write.

Time to have my say

Okay, I've been spending some time reading this thread and the old NEPAT. At first I thought this thread was a good thing, doing what it could to warn people of a bad publisher. After reading and doing some research, I've changed my mind. There is much truth stated here about PA and there is also much garbage.

My friends and relatives have never been harrassed by Pa to buy my books. NEVER.

In two years, PA has sent me exactly 2 emails giving me the opportunity to buy my own books at an increased discount. TWO

On my PA book that hasn't been released yet, I asked for no editing as I have my own editor and I'd heard all the stories about PA just using MS Word spell/grammer checker. My ms was returned with a whole page of red corrections from someone who had to have read the ms because these corrections were throughout the entire book and were not corrections from spell/grammer checker. They were from someone who knew what they were doing and had read my ms. (this was my experience, I'm not saying it happens to anyone else)

I knew when I went with Pa that they do no promotions. They told me so upfront. I did not know that my books would not be in bookstores or that most bookstores won't even carry them. A thumbs down for PA.

When they introduced the returns policy, they also reduced the discount on books from Ingrams to 5%. Another thumbs down for PA.

My new book will carry a retail of $19.95, about 3 or 4 dollars higher than a normal trade paperback of the same size. Thumbs down again for PA

My first royalty check was so small as to be ludicrous. Thumbs down.

The above is the absolute truth about my dealings with PA and is what I tell anyone interested enough to ask.

I will not slam other PA authors (good or bad). You do that here on a regular basis, even though you say it's against the rules. (you can deny it, but I've been reading the thread for a couple of weeks and you will be lying)

I had no trouble promoting my first PA book and even had it in several bookstores. I have had people buy it from all around the globe. That is until recently when this site and others like it has become know and the rumors have spread. Now it's hard to promote at all. You are not hurting PA, you are hurting other authors (some very good authors with very good books)

You also claim that no one from this board is the guestbook slimer or fake reviewer on Amazon. I would bet that it is someone from this board. And it's a very nasty, childish and illegal thing to be doing. I will report to all appropriate legal orgs and ISPs if it ever happens to me. I will continue to report and file complaints until the person is stopped.

I have moved on from PA, but will do my best to promote my new book as I worked very hard on it and when asked directly about PA, I will tell the truth, the truth without exaggeration.

I don't find it amusing to read the sniggering comments made about the poor PA authors who can't write and aren't real authors and have only been printed by a printer and not a publisher. Very unprofessional and childish.

Now you may all jump on me like a pack of wild dogs the way I've seen you do others with differing opinions from your own.

Amanda, some of the things you say are untrue because they didn't happen to your or your friends and relatives are not untrue for that reason. If they happened to only some writers, then they're still true. It just means you didn't get caught by those and it's not at all implausible that you got missed since PA is notoriously inefficient. PA even relies upon this board to regularly find the postings in their own forum that are embarrassing to them.

As to attacks on authors, there have been some. No one has denied that. The point is that it is generally not condoned. Only in a few egregious instances has it been permitted. Cancer boy is one such. HB is another. There were likely others whose identities don't come to mind at the moment and there will surely be a few more. Furthermore, some individuals discovered slamming guest books were banned from AW. Beyond that, there's little that AW can do to those individuals. I think that goes a long way toward demonstrating the overall integrity and sense of justice and fair play that characterizes AW and its members.

AmandaPA said:

My friends and relatives have never been harrassed by Pa to buy my books. NEVER.

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PA changed their behavior on that issue precisely because of the bad publicity it got through places like AW. If your friends and family were never harrassed by PA to buy, you can thank the people who generated the negative publicity about that policy.

I will not slam other PA authors (good or bad). You do that here on a regular basis, even though you say it's against the rules. (you can deny it, but I've been reading the thread for a couple of weeks and you will be lying)

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Amanda, I hope you're not confusing criticising someone's attitude or their work with criticising the person, and I hope you're not confusing criticising with slamming or bashing.

Have people on AW made personal attacks against PA authors? Yes, and in nearly all cases, the AW community expressed displeasure at that. What you as someone coming in late and getting only part of the picture don't see are the temporary and permanent bannings, the negative rep comments, and the PMs that happen as a result of someone stepping over the line.

I had no trouble promoting my first PA book and even had it in several bookstores. I have had people buy it from all around the globe. That is until recently when this site and others like it has become know and the rumors have spread. Now it's hard to promote at all. You are not hurting PA, you are hurting other authors (some very good authors with very good books)

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Friend, it would have happened with or without AW. PA's policies are not geared towards bookstore sales. As more and more stores have dealt with them, they've become better known, and their reputation is not good.

You also claim that no one from this board is the guestbook slimer or fake reviewer on Amazon. I would bet that it is someone from this board. And it's a very nasty, childish and illegal thing to be doing. I will report to all appropriate legal orgs and ISPs if it ever happens to me. I will continue to report and file complaints until the person is stopped.

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By all means, report such actions to appropriate authorities. I agree, it's stupid, childish, and sleazy. If you continue reading the backthread, you'll see that two members of AW were discovered to have been posting such messages, and they were immediately and permanently banned. Any member of AW found to be slamming or sliming PA authors will be treated the same way. I can assure you that the moderators are comparing the IPs of AW members with the IPs of the Slammer/Slimer, and if there are matches, there will be bannings. That's Jenna's ruling, and it's taken very seriously.

I don't find it amusing to read the sniggering comments made about the poor PA authors who can't write and aren't real authors and have only been printed by a printer and not a publisher. Very unprofessional and childish.

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If you're saying that PA books are published, I must disagree with you. I consider them printed, because the supposed publisher does not create, support, market, distribute, or promote its books in a way that consitutes "publishing."

Now you may all jump on me like a pack of wild dogs the way I've seen you do others with differing opinions from your own.

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Excuse me. I take offense at that statement, madam. If you're going to make such a statement, accusing everyone here of such behavior, then I challenge you to provide examples of it. Be sure to show how we're attacking someone for a different opinion, instead of, say, universally criticising someone's rude behavior. I await your proof.

You also claim that no one from this board is the guestbook slimer or fake reviewer on Amazon. I would bet that it is someone from this board. And it's a very nasty, childish and illegal thing to be doing. I will report to all appropriate legal orgs and ISPs if it ever happens to me. I will continue to report and file complaints until the person is stopped.

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I'd be interested in someone who actually knows something about law commenting on this. Exactly what is illegal?

There are all kinds of fake reviews on Amazon, good and bad. If that were illegal the entire site would have been shut down long ago for blatant criminal activity.

I'm not condoning fake reviews or sliming, just thinking there might be a bit of an overreaction here.

From the PAMB:

I agree I think our books are worth $25.00. What can you get for that these days?

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<sigh> I can get a brand new, just released hardcover from a big name author for that kind of money. Although I don't. I'm just as "frugal" with my book-buying funds as the next guy. (The next guy who's not paying PA's over-inflated prices, that is.) I might buy a hardcover on the remainder rack. In which case I can get at least 4, if not 5, hardcover books for the price of this one PA book. Or I could buy 3-4 new paperback novels with $25.

I could buy app. 10 gallons of gasoline these days.

I could buy 8 of the "small" (I can't keep their weird sizing words straight) Starbuck's creme frappachinos with $25.00.

$25.00 will pay for my husband and I to see a movie at a matinee, and pay for an order of popcorn and a soda. (Your milage on that one may vary, depending on your theatres.)

I could buy a new DVD of a movie and still have some money left over to buy soda and microwave popcorn to go with it at home.

In other words, folks, people can do a LOT of other things with their $25 of discretionary spending money rather than spending on an over-priced book. (And with fuel prices these days, discretionary money for spending on entertainment may be down in a lot of households.)

Who will not flinch at spending $25 for your PA book? Mom. Aunt Ruth. Uncle Sal. Your new boyfriend, who's trying to get laid. Your husband, who's trying to get laid. And even some of them may flinch - just not where you can see it.

Susan G.

AmandaPA said:

Okay, I've been spending some time reading this thread and the old NEPAT. At first I thought this thread was a good thing, doing what it could to warn people of a bad publisher. After reading and doing some research, I've changed my mind. There is much truth stated here about PA and there is also much garbage.

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Amanda, this is why Uncle Jim and the other mods are so adamant about staying on topic in this thread. There are a lot of former PA authors here (myself included) that have shared their experiences in an effort to educate people of some of the negative aspects of choosing PA as a printer.

Many of the problems others have faced did not happen to me, but they could have. There is some occasional misinformation posted here, but it's usually straightened out by somebody. You want to see some real misinformation? Go spend some time on the PA message board. About 90% of the advice that's given is from authors whose books aren't even out yet. If you're looking for a perfect source for information, you're in the wrong place. That being said, AW is a quantum leap above all others.

Oh, and by the way—blaming AW for the failure of your book is a classic form of transference. You say you're over PA and have moved on, but I don't think so. I think you're still in denial, and still clinging to the idea that PA "chose" your work because of its quality. Until you face the fact that you were just a number to them, you will continue to live in confusion.

Part of the problem as I see it is that Amanda doesn't want to blame PA because PA gave her a chance. Therefore, since PA wants her to succeed, they couldn't possibly be at fault. Since she's presumably been doing everything within her ability to get her book known, it also can't be her fault. Since any published book has to be good in order to be published, it also can't be the fault of her book.

Ipso facto, therefore the fault must lie elsewhere. Since it can't possibly be attributed to readers since that would mean that she wrote an unpopular book, the lack of sales has to be attributed to some nefarious outside influence.

Aha! It must be AW because they are outside and against PA and therefore nefarious.

Amanda, you better look around. It isn't just AW that's pointing out the problems with PA. The point is you stepped in PA and the smell is finally reaching your nose. All we're saying is wipe your shoes off and try not to do that again.

If you're talkikng about who I think you're talking about Amanda,(and there have been several people over the course of the old thread who came over here to defend PA)... what you see as "attacking like a pack of wild dogs" really isn't. There have been a couple of people who came here, guns blazing, ready to take us head on. We show the facts, they pick on our grammar. We ask questions, they avoided them.

Out and our harassment is not tolerated on this board from anyone. Anyway, you got lucky. You never recieved a 'tone' letter, you were never treated like something someone scrapes off their shoe by a company that was supposed to be helping your career. I'm sure there are many stories like yours - but the fact is that PA does use these tactics to keep the boat-rockers quiet. You've seen the e-mails, you've read the Infomonster posts on the message board.

When we say PA authors aren't really published, it's because the industry at large says so - not us. Many, MANY agents and publishers have stated publicly that they do not consider a PA book as a publishing credit. Does that mean you aren't a good writer? No, of course not. If you query an agent with your next book, it has to stand on its own, and you (universal 'you') are looked at as a new, unpublished writer. Which is probably to your advantage. If an agent looked at the sales of PA books as a marker of how you sell, you probably wouldn't have much of a chance. Notice I said sales, not quality.

Anyone can go to Lulu.com and have a book printed up and sell it. Doesn't mean that anyone gave their work 'the chance it deserves', just means they have words on a page. Lack of a true gatekeeping process is what keeps PA from being a real publisher. Well, that and a bunch of other stuff, like not being able to get into bookstores and having cover prices that are too high. (Notice the cover price is NOT on the back of your PA book. Find me another commercial publisher that does that.)

I hope you stick around, Amanda. It's always good to have other people's PA experience to compare to.

From PAMB Big chains

A poster on the PAMB said:
I have been told that the big local chains will be carrying my book, and a few other little consignments.

NONE of the big chains carry, as in stock on the shelves, PublishAmerica books. There is documentation to the contrary. Barnes and Noble corporate policy is to not stock POD, including PA books.

The same poster continues:
I think that some compaines or managers see that money is thrown away every day, highlighting a higher price book, but as a local author, brings people to want to know more and fortunatly buy. I have had nobody claim the price was to high, nor the shipping costs as well.

When merchandise is priced above the acceptable consumer price point, the consumer just doesn't buy. The consumer doesn't inform the author of the reason for not buying.

Dee

rekirts said:

I'd be interested in someone who actually knows something about law commenting on this. Exactly what is illegal?

There are all kinds of fake reviews on Amazon, good and bad. If that were illegal the entire site would have been shut down long ago for blatant criminal activity.

I'm not condoning fake reviews or sliming, just thinking there might be a bit of an overreaction here.

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At most, this might constitute an unfair trade practice&#151;unfair competition, trademark disparagement or dilution, or DAP (deceptive acts and practices)… but probably only if the "slimer" is reasonably construed as a competitor of the target books. Even then, it's a looooooooooooong stretch to construe the practice in general of "sliming reviews" as unlawful.

Of course, it is also possible for particular comments made in reviews to create other problems; a claim in a review that the author of the book is a mass murderer and pedophile would certainly raise libel as a potential issue!