In with a publisher?

popmuze · Jan 25, 2006

A couple of years ago I had a non-fiction book published by a major publisher. For a while I tried pitching my editor on my fiction, sending him a chapter, but he never responded. Now he's left the company. An assistant will be in charge of my book (not that there's much to do, just send me free books every so often when I ask for a box).

I have emailed the publisher once looking for an agent, and got a very pleasant response.

So the question is, now that I no longer have an editor there, should I drop a line to the publisher about my novel, or send an email to the new assistant? Or both?

LightShadow · Jan 25, 2006

being published is a notch in your belt. tell it, sing it, make sure they all know about it, without being a total pest...

James D. Macdonald · Jan 25, 2006

I'm kinda amazed ... did your (non-fiction) editor even handle novels?

Publishers can not (ethically) recommend agents.

What you might try doing is to take your publication credit and find an agent who would be able to find a suitable home for your novel.

cwfgal · Jan 25, 2006

More than likely your nonfiction editor didn't handle fiction. So you might want to ask the assistant who in the company does handle fiction like yours and query that person. But I think you'd be better off trying to find an agent and going that route. When you asked for agent recommendations did you get any names?

Beth

Julie Worth · Jan 25, 2006

James D. Macdonald said:
Publishers can not (ethically) recommend agents.

Even if they're not interested in the book?

James D. Macdonald · Jan 25, 2006

Julie Worth said:
Even if they're not interested in the book?

Even if they're not interested in the book.

Julie Worth · Jan 25, 2006

James D. Macdonald said:
Even if they're not interested in the book.

Buy why? A few days ago aruna mentioned that a publisher had (at her request) sent a book they weren’t interested in to an agent, along with a glowing recommendation. It that was unethical, no one seemed to notice.

Weirdest agent-editor story ever! Should I laugh or cry???

Aconite · Jan 25, 2006

Julie Worth said:
Buy why? A few days ago aruna mentioned that a publisher had (at her request) sent a book they weren’t interested in to an agent, along with a glowing recommendation. It that was unethical, no one seemed to notice.

UJ will answer for himself, I'm sure, but IMO it's a conflict of interest for an editor to recomend an agent. What an editor finds appealing about an agent from the editorial side may not be what's in the best interest of the author. Even if the editor isn't interested in that particular book, other books by that author may come to the editor via that agent.

My agent is supposed to be my representative, putting my concerns and interest first. How can I be confident of that if the agent doing the negotiating was recommended by the guy on the other side of the table?

popmuze · Jan 25, 2006

James D. Macdonald said:
I'm kinda amazed ... did your (non-fiction) editor even handle novels?

Not sure. But the idea was to get an inside track somehow, with the editor recommending it to a colleague.

Publishers can not (ethically) recommend agents.
This may answer a question I've had. The publisher did recommend an agent for me to try. The agent asked to see the manuscript on an exclusive basis. Then never responded (going on a year now). Maybe he had an ethical dilemma about it. I've since rescinded the exclusive.

What you might try doing is to take your publication credit and find an agent who would be able to find a suitable home for your novel.

I am in the process of doing that with no success so far. But I just wondered if using some of my editorial connections (for instance, the editor of my first YA novel now has her own imprint) would be a way to avoid the "We only consider manuscripts submitted by agents" syndrome.

maestrowork · Jan 25, 2006

popmuze said:
I am in the process of doing that with no success so far. But I just wondered if using some of my editorial connections (for instance, the editor of my first YA novel now has her own imprint) would be a way to avoid the "We only consider manuscripts submitted by agents" syndrome.

I am not sure if that works, considering your editor has already left. Yes, you had a book with the publisher but it's a non-fiction. Fiction is another different thing. However, I'd say why not? The worst that can happen is that they say no. Then you're back to where you started. But maybe they'll say, "Sure, we know who you are, so send your ms. over and we'll take a look."

popmuze · Jan 25, 2006

Maestro,
Not to get into too many gory details, but this editor wasn't the acquiring editor anyway, who left way before the book came out. (I seem to have that effect on editors).
My main concern, I guess, assuming I eventually do get an agent for my fiction, is not to burn any bridges at this company or any others I might approach on my own.

Julie Worth · Jan 25, 2006

James D. Macdonald said:
Publishers can not (ethically) recommend agents.

Still looking for the why of his, I looked up the AAR Canon of Ethics. The most relevant language seems to be: “Members shall not represent both buyer and seller in the same transaction.” But, in aruna's case, the publisher already passed on the book, so it would not be a problem, at least from the agent's perspective. Does the publisher have a code of ethics that would preclude this? If so, I couldn't find one.

Aconite · Jan 25, 2006

Julie Worth said:
Still looking for the why of his, I looked up the AAR Canon of Ethics.

UJ indicated the ethical problem was on the side of the editor, not the agent.

ETA: It would appear I'm on Ms. Worth's Ignore list, since I addressed the problem above. Perhaps someone whose posts she sees may restate the basic premise.

popmuze · Jan 25, 2006

Aconite said:
UJ indicated the ethical problem was on the side of the editor, not the agent.

ETA: It would appear I'm on Ms. Worth's Ignore list, since I addressed the problem above.

It may well be an unwritten rule, since a number of the editors I've asked to do just this thing, respectfully declined.

Julie Worth · Jan 25, 2006

Aconite said:
UJ indicated the ethical problem was on the side of the editor, not the agent.

Your responses are generally unhelpful, as you obviously do not bother to read the posts you're responding to. Borderline trollish.

popmuze said:
It may well be an unwritten rule, since a number of the editors I've asked to do just this thing, respectfully declined.

Or perhaps it's for the same reason they would decline to tell a writer why they're rejecting a submission.

Aconite · Jan 25, 2006

Julie Worth said:
Your responses are generally unhelpful, as you obviously do not bother to read the posts you're responding to. Borderline trollish.

*sigh* If you think so, why don't you just make both of us happy, and put me on your Ignore list?

Julie Worth · Jan 25, 2006

Aconite said:
*sigh* If you think so, why don't you just make both of us happy, and put me on your Ignore list?

Thanks for the suggestion, as I wasn’t aware there was such a thing. You’re now first on my ignore list.

popmuze · Jan 25, 2006

Aconite said:
*sigh* If you think so, why don't you just make both of us happy, and put me on your Ignore list?

Friends, Romans, countrymen,
Let's not lose the thread of my original post: I am still hungry for good advice about:
Querying editors if you know them or publishers if you've published with them, in lieu of having an agent, and whether that may or may not be burning bridges and/or wasting contacts.

On the other hand, in the absense of adult fiction credits, agents don't seem to be cliimbing all over each other to sign up my book.

Aconite · Jan 25, 2006

popmuze said:
Querying editors if you know them or publishers if you've published with them, in lieu of having an agent, and whether that may or may not be burning bridges and/or wasting contacts.

I don't see how it would be burning bridges or wasting contacts. If they say sure, they'll look at your stuff, great. If not, no harm done. And your odds of getting your first-pick agent go up when you can contact them and say, "I have an offer from so-and-so, and I'd like to know if you'd be interested in representing me."

(I think Jaws has mentioned on another board that an agent brought in at this point of the negotiations can't do a lot to improve the advance and other royalties, but they can still do you good in other areas.)

Bleak House Books · Jan 25, 2006

James D. Macdonald said:
Even if they're not interested in the book.

I know I'm not the first person to ask for clarification, but as an editor, I'm interested in your reasoning here.

If the issue is that an editor/publisher/publishing house rep shouldn't recommend an agent to an author that the same house plans on negotiating with, I understand that for that author's book. After all, it has the potential to run into the same "third party" editing system that somebody like ST pushes on authors.

But if you just mean in general that a publisher can't make a suggestion to authors about potential agents without violating some ethical rule, I'd sure like to know what the rule is.

Color me curious.

James D. Macdonald · Jan 25, 2006

It's ST, not PA, that pushes "third party" edits (where the "third party" is secretly owned by ST). But be that as it may:

Either the editor has negotiated with a particular agent, or may someday negotiate with a particular agent.

The very most that an editor can do is say "Here is a list of agents who regularly submit material to us" or "from whom we have bought material in the past." It would probably be best to list 'em alphabetically, to avoid any appearance of favoritism.

Even that comes close to the line. One should not merely avoid fraud or favoritism, one should avoid the appearance of fraud or favoritism.

While it may not be illegal to toss a golden apple marked "to the fairest" into a group of goddesses, it is certainly not a wise thing to do.

Bleak House Books · Jan 25, 2006

James D. Macdonald said:
It's ST, not PA, that pushes "third party" edits (where the "third party" is secretly owned by ST). But be that as it may:

Either the editor has negotiated with a particular agent, or may someday negotiate with a particular agent.

The very most that an editor can do is say "Here is a list of agents who regularly submit material to us" or "from whom we have bought material in the past." It would probably be best to list 'em alphabetically, to avoid any appearance of favoritism.

Even that comes close to the line. One should not merely avoid fraud or favoritism, one should avoid the appearance of fraud or favoritism.

While it may not be illegal to toss a golden apple marked "to the fairest" into a group of goddesses, it is certainly not a wise thing to do.

James,

I still don't understand your position.

I am friends with many authors.

I'm friends with many agents.

When I see two people on the same page that I think would work well together, what harm is there in introducing the two of them with a hearty recommendation for both if I genuinely believe it? To me, it is no different than introducing two friends that would make a good couple.

aruna · Jan 25, 2006

Julie Worth said:
Buy why? A few days ago aruna mentioned that a publisher had (at her request) sent a book they weren’t interested in to an agent, along with a glowing recommendation. It that was unethical, no one seemed to notice.

Weirdest agent-editor story ever! Should I laugh or cry???

Yes - she actually went one step further and SENT the ms to an agent!
And, I didn't ask for this. I asked for advice in placing the book; basically, I was asking if she knew of any EDITOR who might reposnd to my ms (though I don't know if I made this clear; possibly I just said "anyone"). It was her idea with the agent.

Brandi · Jan 26, 2006

Bleak House Books said:
James,

I still don't understand your position.

I am friends with many authors.

I'm friends with many agents.

When I see two people on the same page that I think would work well together, what harm is there in introducing the two of them with a hearty recommendation for both if I genuinely believe it? To me, it is no different than introducing two friends that would make a good couple.

It seems like a basic conflict of interest to me. Your example discusses friends, but the original conflict was about an author who sends a piece to an editor the author doesn't already know. When someone broke into my car, the cop told me they're not allowed to recommend a glass repair shop because of the appearance of impropriety (even if it's to say Bob's is the closest to you). It seems like the same problem - the editor would seem to be throwing work to a particular agent over others.

aruna · Jan 26, 2006

Brandi said:
It seems like the same problem - the editor would seem to be throwing work to a particular agent over others.

Except that you're not likely to get a rejection from the repair shop!
I understand the reasoning; but in a difficult market such as this, where it's a matter of SUBJECTIVE opinions, and where agents swat away authors like so many flies, a bit of helping along isn't going to hurt the other agents.

In with a publisher?

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