God as a character

E.G. Gammon · Jan 24, 2006

With all the recent controversy over the now-cancelled NBC, man-talks-to-Jesus series "The Book of Daniel," and some Conservative Christians still believing that every fiction novel written about anything other than God contains a hidden agenda or is trying to become the next Bible, do you think it's safe to use God as a character in a fiction novel?

(I hope that Conservative Christian remark didn't upset anyone. It's just I have a relative who's one and she and "everyone I know" [her words, not mine] believe such things)

maestrowork · Jan 24, 2006

Depends on which God you're talking about... But I think it's is not the first time God is a character in fiction, and it won't be the last.

Sage · Jan 24, 2006

If it does create a controversy, that could be a selling point for some (but of course, some will be lost due to it). If it's touted by Christians, you'll have a large potential audience that way, but you'll lose people who will worry that it is going to be preachy. If certain Christians complain about how God was presented or that there's a hidden agenda, you'll have a large potential audience of people interested in the controversy & those who are interested in anything that conservative Christians dismiss (yes, there are plenty of people like that).

But don't worry about it. If God (or a god) needs to be a character in your novel, go for it.

travNastee · Jan 24, 2006

Wow...that has to be the quickest cancellation ever. It was on for like, what, one episode? And NBC probably wonders why they're ranked fourth.

But as far as using God in fiction, I think that no matter what god you use, even in a fictional capacity, if you don't stick exactly to whatever definition the group you are trying to prevent offending has of their supremem being, you will draw their wrath. And suppose that view differs from another denomination's view, you have therefore drawn the other group's wrath.

So ignore other people's opinions/offenses and write whatever is needed, or whatever you feel is intersting. If it angers people, so be it. Garth Ennis didn't worry about it when he wrote Preacher (comic book).

As mentioned above, controversy is a great tool. Use it if needed.

Sage · Jan 24, 2006

travNastee said:
Wow...that has to be the quickest cancellation ever. It was on for like, what, one episode? And NBC probably wonders why they're ranked fourth.

Nah, I'm pretty sure FOX wins that. Or they tie. "Book of Daniel" (has had three eps so far, I think) needs only one more ep to air to beat "Wonderfalls."

blacbird · Jan 24, 2006

She can do anything She wants.

caw.

AdamH · Jan 24, 2006

Safe? Religion and God are very difficult subjects to tackle no matter what the milieu (using fancy words today).

That doesn't mean I don't think God can't be used as a character. As long as it serves the story, I suppose, like any other character.

reph · Jan 24, 2006

You might try this question at the Religious Writing forum, waaaaay down there in the genres section.

Birol · Jan 24, 2006

I can think of several books, television shows, and movies that have God as a character. Will you incur someone's (mortal, not divine) wrath? Sure. Especially if you write a really good book.

If a god, Christian or otherwise, is supposed to be in your book, don't try to thwart him/her/it/them. I imagine that would be far worse than trying to force a normal character to do or be something they're not.

maestrowork · Jan 24, 2006

Oh God -- and they're remaking it this year. Ellen Degeneres was supposed to play God...

clara bow · Jan 24, 2006

E.G. Gammon said:
With all the recent controversy over the now-cancelled NBC, man-talks-to-Jesus series "The Book of Daniel,"

aw, man, I was going to keep watching that. The dialogue was kind of lame in places but I thought it was entertaining. There's always DVD, I guess.

Anyway, God told me to tell you that as long as H/she gets a cut of the royalties, you're good to go.

clara bow · Jan 24, 2006

maestrowork said:
Oh God -- and they're remaking it this year. Ellen Degeneres was supposed to play God...

Yeah, I heard about that. I kind of want to see that. In a guilty pleasure sort of way.

E.G. Gammon · Jan 24, 2006

In the novel I'm working on, God is "the" God of that particular world - the world I've created in the story - and not the God of this world. But, I know if the novel gets any sort of publicity at all, that important distinction between my fictional God and the "nonfictional" God (nonfictional, depending on what you believe), won't be made by some people. Of course, I won't get ahead of myself, there.

Even though it wasn't my initial intention, the message I want to portray with "God" comes off a little preachy, but what writer doesn't add a little bit of themselves and what they believe in into their writing? I just wish people today could make the clear distinction between what's fiction and nonfiction and realize that not every piece of entertainment has some agenda to corrupt the beliefs of the world. "God" just fits so well within the story that I would feel lost without the character, so I guess I'll just write it the way I planned and face whatever I may face if the novel ever gets published, which I obviously hope it does.

I just wish my Conservative Christian relative didn't know about it. She already pretty much told me to my face that she thought I was unGodly for writing what I'm writing (without even wanting to know anything about the story and exactly in what context the fictional world's God is used). Unfortunately, she's crazy enough to try (not that she will succeed) to use her connection to me to ruin any chances I have of getting it published.

------

And with "The Book of Daniel," I think the continuing drop in ratings every week sealed the deal for the network to give it the ax, especially after those Conservative Christians felt it was their holy duty to get advertiser's to stop funding the series, leaving NBC stuck with the bill for most of the commercial time. Did anyone see how many NBC promos aired during the 2-hour pilot? There were maybe 2 commercials that weren't NBC related in the entire 2-hours.

Personally, I'm not that upset about the show ending anyway. I just couldn't get into it. It might not have been its intention, but I always felt it was trying to be a religious version of 'Six Feet Under,' and it failed miserably at that.

Birol · Jan 24, 2006

Meanwhile, doesn't Joan of Arcadia continue to do very well?

SeanDSchaffer · Jan 24, 2006

maestrowork said:
Oh God -- and they're remaking it this year. Ellen Degeneres was supposed to play God...

Oh, man, I hope she does well in that movie. I hold to the idea that that was one of the best parts George Burns ever played, so in a couple ways she has quite a set of shoes to fill.

mdin · Jan 24, 2006

E.G. Gammon said:
In the novel I'm working on, God is "the" God of that particular world - the world I've created in the story - and not the God of this world.

.

So your book is a fantasy novel?

Deities as characters is really common. You don't have anything to worry about. And even if you did, you shouldn't worry about it anyway. Just write the thing.

Mistook · Jan 25, 2006

Stick it to the man!

Between the George Burns "Oh God" movies, and "The Old Man & Mr. Smith" you have plenty of precident and leeway. Also look at the recent Jim Carey movie... and a bunch of other examples.

Screw the neo-cons. They're burning Harry Potter for being Godless. They'll burn you for having a God character. The point is... they like to burn books. It's what they do.

And I'm pretty damn sure the actual God doesn't like it.

Flapdoodle · Jan 25, 2006

E.G. Gammon said:
With all the recent controversy over the now-cancelled NBC, man-talks-to-Jesus series "The Book of Daniel," and some Conservative Christians still believing that every fiction novel written about anything other than God contains a hidden agenda or is trying to become the next Bible, do you think it's safe to use God as a character in a fiction novel?

(I hope that Conservative Christian remark didn't upset anyone. It's just I have a relative who's one and she and "everyone I know" [her words, not mine] believe such things)

Well they did it in the bible, so why not anywhere else?

"God" is actually (I believe) a germanic word for a Pagan Deity. The Christian God is based on the Jewish God, YWHW (Or something like that), whose name roughly means "he who is" or something. That's because he just is. Creatorless. This is possibly based on an earlier Pagan God. If you're a Muslim then Allah is the same God as the Christian God, but the Koran is the "real" holy book (Apparently, the Bible wasn't right.), and Christians are called "People of the book."

I'm with Charlie Chaplin.

Mike Coombes · Jan 25, 2006

God's a great character. I see him wearing a spinning bow tie and laughing at fart jokes, while ignoring what happens down below.

There's no problem using him as a fictional character. The bible managed to pull it off. You might even be able to create a new genre - christian fanfic.

MadScientistMatt · Jan 25, 2006

It's pretty much impossible to write a book that does not somehow offend someone's morals somewhere. And as a general rule, the more things someone's religion forbids, the more likely you can offend them with your book. So don't worry about offensiveness - rest assured that your book is going to offend someone, but few offended people actually do anything more than denounce your book.

However, I can see one issue with bringing God in as a character - namely, that you need some sort of problem that's so big that God has difficulty solving it, or else you need a theological reason why God cannot intervene directly except in a very limited manner. Otherwise things may not be too interesting if God can just solve the problem with a divine snap of the fingers.

willietheshakes · Jan 25, 2006

Birol said:
Meanwhile, doesn't Joan of Arcadia continue to do very well?

No.
Cancelled at the end of last season. I believe, though, that the poor ratings had much to do with a decline in the quality of the writing, and not any backlash.

gp101 · Jan 25, 2006

E.G. Gammon said:
some Conservative Christians still believing that every fiction novel written about anything other than God contains a hidden agenda or is trying to become the next Bible, do you think it's safe to use God as a character in a fiction novel?

(I hope that Conservative Christian remark didn't upset anyone. It's just I have a relative who's one and she and "everyone I know" [her words, not mine] believe such things)

If that's your prejudice going into the project, then you're already in trouble for various reasons. First, don't shy away from your subject matter for fear of upsetting people. You'll nearly always upset people. Secondly, what if your relative was racist, and her friends shared the same beliefs? Would you go on just their word in deciding whether you should continue with your race-related story? Don't be lazy. Become familiar with differing POV's of the subject matter. Would it be written through their POV? Practically no matter what you write, you'll encounter pockets of people who agree/disagree with you. If you try to make a definitive statement about God, be sure to expect poisonous literary arrows flung your way. Likewise if you are too flamboyant with the part, or try to bring in new, never-before-presented mores or attitudes contrary to popular beliefs of God.

Write your story. Make God irreverent (in certain aspects), or a great joke-teller, or a sloppy home keeper. You'll get a smattering of negative feedback, but most people will just find it amusing, I think. Don't be afraid to write about any subject, but do realize that the more license you take with deeply-held beliefs (be it God, American patriotic history, or anything else with a popularly assumed history), you risk alienating half your readers. Like everything else, moderation is key.

As a fairly conservative and fairly Christian person, I don't get offended by new interpretations or takes on God. But I won't enjoy a book that either preaches to me, or belittles my beliefs.

Good luck. And I won't even include heathern jokes.

LightShadow · Jan 25, 2006

Christians enjoy the rare moments that the real world finds enjoyment in a piece using God in an inspirational manner. God rarely is allowed to enjoy the mainstream anymore. Some writers, like Piers Anthony (incarnations of immortality) make God too human, and others make Him too mystical, so the balance is sometimes difficult to find. Using God is fine, and would it hurt to peak the interest of readers outside your genre such as Christians? And if it caused controversy, would that hurt that bad? I feel the best way to use God is a little on the subtle side. Strong message, without shoving God completely down someone's throat. Narnia by C. S. Lewis accomplishes that. End of the Spear (movie out right now) has a strong message of hope, and God is a stronger part without taking it over. Check it out

E.G. Gammon · Jan 25, 2006

Back when I started to veer away from the idea of God as a character out of fear, I started to create this entirely new back story of the creation of the world, substituting something I created for God. But, I eventually thought if Pat Robertson can supposedly talk to God, why can't my characters?

I won't go into details of how the character of God is used in my novel, but I will say a few things. God is not the focus of the story and doesn't try to be. I don't use God to create a deux ex machina ending, where all the problems are all of a sudden fixed in the world by him/her. God is used to say "Hey, you can't rely on me to fix everything." God sort of does that thing parents do when their kids are in trouble - he/she makes them take care of the problem themselves because just spelling the lesson out, will not make them understand and learn from their mistake. Supposedly God is everywhere so I found it logical that God could be among us somewhere just waiting to divulge his/her identity when he/she felt the time was right. And I don't use God to preach about what's wrong with today's society. I do, however, use the character of God to show that we should never assume we know everything there is to know about everything and that maybe God doesn't necessarily know everything there is to know either. (You can see the difference in the actual God and the fictional one)

The thing I was mainly worried about with this God character was the way I humanize (I guess that would be the best word to use here) him/her. People today seem to automatically give credit to God for everything good that happens in the world and expect him/her to also take care of the bad things, which some people believe are the result of the sinners in the world. But, I kind of insinuate it's possible that even God makes mistakes sometimes... (I think I said that right). But, taking a divine being like God and giving him/her certain human characteristics, might make people think I am belittling God, which I'm definitely not trying to do.

Oh well, the point is, I'm keeping God in the story and I intend to write it the way I feel comfortable because it benefits the overall story a great deal. I really believe that if the story is read in its entirety with an open mind, even the most strict Christians will find some kind of appreciation for what I'm trying to say and realize I'm not trying to corrupt the minds of the world (one can only hope).

maestrowork · Jan 25, 2006

Just go with it. You think too much, EG.

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