How do you handle support characters that are too strong?

Perihelion · Jan 22, 2006

First, what is your belief: too many dominant characters disrupt the flow of a story? or the more dominant characters the better?

Supposing you follow the first belief, if you find that one or two of your "support" characters are becoming too strong and are beginning to rival the MC in importance, what do you do? Do you allow the story to flow and become what it may? Or do you take the upstarts down a notch? Do you break the book out into "volumes" to allow space for the other characters to develope in their own world? Just curious about some of the ways others would handle this situation.

veinglory · Jan 22, 2006

I wrote one novella where a supporting character was very vivd even though I kept his actual role in the plot minor. Almost every review of this novella has mentioned this character and suggested they would like to read more about him. So there is a sequel in the works. I think that so long as the plot doesn't start pivoting around them instead of the hero, strong secondary characters are a good thing.

Sage · Jan 22, 2006

I like strong secondary characters too. Although, I think you meant strong as in "approaching main character importance in the overall novel." But I like to have subplots for my non-MCs to deal w/ as well as the main plot, & when they are the star of the subplot, you can give them the attention that they're looking for w/out letting them take over the main plot from your MC(s).

Strength in personality & development is very important for supporting characters, IMO. Not minor characters as much, but if a character's going to be around, they shouldn't be one-dimensional. In my novels, I tend to have supporting characters (or the secondary MC) with "stonger" personalities than my MC. Except for my NaNo novel, I tend to have quieter MCs w/ very colorful & "loud" friends/lovers/siblings.

I've also had a minor character (appearing in only two chapters, late in the novel) who wanted to be more important than she was ever going to be. So I gave her her own novel (that was the NaNo novel). That appeased her & she let my MC go on w/ his story.

Julie Worth · Jan 22, 2006

Perihelion said:
... if you find that one or two of your "support" characters are becoming too strong and are beginning to rival the MC in importance, what do you do?

I kill them. Or else I let them take over. Who cares, anyway, as long as the story is interesting? And who are you, god? Saying that this person is the mc, and not that one?

Perihelion · Jan 22, 2006

Julie Worth said:
I kill them. Or else I let them take over. Who cares, anyway, as long as the story is interesting? And who are you, god? Saying that this person is the mc, and not that one?

Isn't that why we become writers? To play out our little "god" fantasies?

In regard to dominant characters, I think it is possible to have "too much" to the point that a reader will be confused about the primary thread of the plot. I have read a novel or two like this, and while I actually appreciate a strong support character, I think that its a balancing act - everybodies is vying for attention, but if the writer doesn't mediate skillfully, he / she ends up with a screamig match.

On the other hand, it can definately be a writing divice to simply not have a MC and instead treat each character and their story like a vignette...Pulp Fiction comes to mind as an example.

badducky · Jan 22, 2006

If your secondary characters are taking over the story that probably has more to do with your main characters. I'd say it's time for the main characters to step up and become closer to people.

Strength isn't a bad thing. Strong writers fill their pages with elaborate and dense expressions of life.

Perhaps the coolest part of The Great Gatsby is the success of all those secondary characters to step up to the plate. I still want to know what happened to that dog...

Julie Worth · Jan 23, 2006

Perihelion said:
On the other hand, it can definately be a writing divice to simply not have a MC and instead treat each character and their story like a vignette...Pulp Fiction comes to mind as an example.

Yes, Pulp Fiction is an excellent example. I always have several main characters, each with their own plotline, each plotline cutting sharply to the next, leaving the reader in suspense, each plotline complementing the others, until they come crashing together at a climax that is unexpected yet inevitable. Coming full circle.

(I do this with thrillers, but also with SF.)

DaveKuzminski · Jan 23, 2006

Having strong support characters can provide a foundation for other characters to step into additional roles. I had some that I first thought were going to become main characters, but it turned out that they served to demonstrate more of the cultural rules of their society. By running into a bully and standing up to him, they brought out definitions in the rules that were in danger of becoming blurred. Of course, when the supporting characters eventually reached their destination, they then became background characters whose presence is now causing other changes to become possible without them actually doing anything because it's their background that's behind the change, not them.

After awhile, I realized why those particular supporting characters were strong. They'd been surviving on their own in the wilderness. For them to be weak would have been a complete contradiction. In other words, their very survival and return to society made it inevitable that they'd enter into conflict with other characters.

zornhau · Jan 23, 2006

Question

Are your support characters in conflict with the protagonist(s), or do they merely have more agency than them?

e.g. does Protagonist, Warrior Newbie Girl, argue morality with Guthrum the Killer every step of the way, or does Guthrum do all the killing for her?

ChaosTitan · Jan 23, 2006

How I handle them is proportional to their importance in the story. Supporting characters exist for a reason and have their jobs to do, otherwise why have them? ((as a side note, this particular strategy has me considering melding two supporters into a single supporter, because separately, neither has enough to do....))

In my novel, one supporter started inching too far into the limelight, and was almost competing with the main characters for attention. I couldn't kill him off, since I needed him for the climax, so I simply shipped him off to another state for a good portion of the book.

Once in a while, in some people's experience, if a supporting character is taking over, becoming too strong, and overshadowing your main character...perhaps their labels are reversed? Supporting characters become the actual main character, and that's the best way to tell the story.

When I'm reading a book/watching a movie/TV show, I like the main character to be just as strong and interesting and dynamic as his/her supporting cast.

DaveKuzminski · Jan 23, 2006

Are all main characters interesting? No. Case in point, our current President. Compared to Cheney, there's more to be said about Cheney's character than Bush's. Cheney is the more interesting and possibly the least trustworthy. Bush strikes me as someone in charge being manipulated by the trusted(?) henchman. For the same reason, the main characters in books won't always be the most charismatic or best or smartest or whatever.

Perihelion · Jan 23, 2006

zornhau said:
Are your support characters in conflict with the protagonist(s), or do they merely have more agency than them?

e.g. does Protagonist, Warrior Newbie Girl, argue morality with Guthrum the Killer every step of the way, or does Guthrum do all the killing for her?

In my most recent scenario, character (A) started off as the MC and I threw in a female sidekick (B) who’s personality evolved so much that she quickly eclipsed (A). I switched character (A) to a support role and made (B) the MC. Now I have introduced two other characters (C) and (D) – one a protagonist to the new MC the other a trusted friend and mate to the MC. (C) has an intriguing background and endearing character. (D) has grown onry and dominant and is challenging my new MC for the spot light. How will this drama resolve itself?
I think I’ll go for the ol’ Sci/Fi trilogy cliché and break the story up into novellas….

badducky · Jan 23, 2006

Why do you need one main character?

In complex situations, many people will rise to the top. Haven't you seen the many fine ensemble stories written by sci-fi writers?

Obsessions with heroics often ignore the team aspect of problem-solving. If every character is visceral and true, it shouldn't matter who the MC is.

zornhau · Jan 24, 2006

Perihelion said:
In my most recent scenario, character (A) started off as the MC and I threw in a female sidekick (B) who’s personality evolved so much that she quickly eclipsed (A). I switched character (A) to a support role and made (B) the MC. Now I have introduced two other characters (C) and (D) – one a protagonist to the new MC the other a trusted friend and mate to the MC. (C) has an intriguing background and endearing character. (D) has grown onry and dominant and is challenging my new MC for the spot light. How will this drama resolve itself?
I think I’ll go for the ol’ Sci/Fi trilogy cliché and break the story up into novellas….

I think what you're saying is that for the most part, your supporting characters are cooler than the main characters, and that you are having a population explosion in your head.

You haven't told me how these characters relate to the story. Do they all contribute to the plot? Does each contribute something to the - sorry, D&D term - "party"? Can they all do stuff?

As a reader, I care more about whether characters do cool stuff, than whether they were cool before the story started.

Suggest you work out what you're story is about and pick a POV character who can make it happen through either brains or ability.

DaveKuzminski · Jan 24, 2006

If only one character can do all the heroics and such, your story runs the risk of becoming a Mary Sue. Go ahead and let your supporting characters also have strong points.

MadScientistMatt · Jan 24, 2006

As they've said in other threads, all your characters should think they are the main character. For example, take a stereotypical James Bond movie. Sure, the audience thinks the plot is "How James Bond saved the world from some evil genius." Bond thinks that's the story too. But if the story really happened, imagine what the other characters might feel their story was. For Q, the story would be "How I invented some gee-whiz gadgets that saved the world." The evil genius would think the story is "How I went about achieving world domination" right up until getting shoved into a bunch of spinning blades in a climactic hand-to-hand struggle with Bond. The evil genius's henchman would see it as "How I got to rough up a bunch of spies, kill a few people, and take out revenge on the guy who thwarted my boss." And a half-dozen women think the story is "How I seduced the world's hottest spy."

Perihelion · Jan 24, 2006

A lot of good advice here. Thanks to everyone who chimed in!

IggytheDestroyer · Jan 26, 2006

In my story I had a character that was supposed to be killed off in the first chapter. As I wrote about him, I began to like him so much that I kept him alive and now he accounts for half of the story, sharing MC status with the original MC. It ended up being two different stories that crossed paths peridically.

keltora · Jan 26, 2006

Perihelion said:
First, what is your belief: too many dominant characters disrupt the flow of a story? or the more dominant characters the better?

Supposing you follow the first belief, if you find that one or two of your "support" characters are becoming too strong and are beginning to rival the MC in importance, what do you do? Do you allow the story to flow and become what it may? Or do you take the upstarts down a notch? Do you break the book out into "volumes" to allow space for the other characters to develope in their own world? Just curious about some of the ways others would handle this situation.

Generally, I end up giving them their own story at some point along the way.

Fortunately, most of my main characters stay dominant, though in the novel I have coming out from Meisha Merlin this April (plug, plug...) I had one character who was intended to be little more than a sidekick to the villain, (and who was not even human) who suddenly took on a personality and a life of his own, and before I knew it, he was playing a major role in the sequel (due out NEXT year, plug, plug)

Takvah · Jan 27, 2006

Personally, I like there to be many strong characters within a story. I appreciate works in which I would have a hard time explaining who the main character is. I love the work of George R. R. Martin and I would defy anyone to state plainly who the main characters are in his SOIAF series. Because of this many people become frustrated with this series, I can understand that. With so many characters that are strong it makes it easy for Martin to kill off "leads". I've been made furious a time or two by these "senseless" killings, but I keep coming back for more. Nuff said!

Let the story flow through you... and worry about sorting the rest of it out later. Make your characters as interesting as possible, period.

OT... Keltora, I read the excerpt from your book. You write wonderfully and managed to hold my interest... I will be picking up a copy of this title.

Cheers

keltora · Jan 27, 2006

Takvah said:
Personally, I like there to be many strong characters within a story. I appreciate works in which I would have a hard time explaining who the main character is. I love the work of George R. R. Martin and I would defy anyone to state plainly who the main characters are in his SOIAF series. Because of this many people become frustrated with this series, I can understand that. With so many characters that are strong it makes it easy for Martin to kill off "leads". I've been made furious a time or two by these "senseless" killings, but I keep coming back for more. Nuff said!

Let the story flow through you... and worry about sorting the rest of it out later. Make your characters as interesting as possible, period.

OT... Keltora, I read the excerpt from your book. You write wonderfully and managed to hold my interest... I will be picking up a copy of this title.

Cheers

Why, thank you. I strive to do what I can.

zornhau · Jan 27, 2006

Takvah said:
Let the story flow through you... and worry about sorting the rest of it out later. Make your characters as interesting as possible, period.

Well said (including the rest of yout remarks).

However, dominant supporting characters can be a psychological tic, a sort of leakage from the writer's real-world disempowered existence into their fiction. (Like the White Room, and Cat Stories)

Part of letting the story flow, surely, is allowing yourself to identify with protagonists who have agency in their world.

Also, does the agency shift as a way of solving problems? Character A is stuck, but don't worry, Character B is suddenly available to fix things. Then Character B gets stuck... this isn't story, it's pass the baton Deus Ex Machina.

Flow is one thing, but not if it eddies into a backwater. Writers write, they don't conduct seances! A martial artist improvises, but still seeks to use technique and direct the fight.

TheIT · Jan 27, 2006

I've noticed every time I add new characters they want to take over the story even if they're meant to be in a supporting role. I think it's partly because the new character is interesting to me because they're new, so I try to think up things for them to do. For example, I gave my noble character armsmen as bodyguards and one of them immediately developed a crush on the female lead. I think eventually there will be some romance, but it's out of place in this story. Try telling my character that, though. Sheesh!

Takvah · Jan 27, 2006

Well I think that's my point. You take a mental note and say, "this is where things have gone differently than I'd anticipated" and go with it for a bit. If you get down the road a piece and realize that this "ham" is detracting from your story and your goal, you make adjustments. I would just hate for people to fear to tread somewhere that might actually improve their story and their characters through struggle, strife, relations, etc. with this assertive character.

Yes, you should have a trail to follow as an author... but I'm not a subscriber to the whole "road map" theory. An outline is made to be broken if it IMPROVES the story.

I've enjoyed this discussion because in the piece I am currently working on there is a set in stone lead... but the trials he faces are made all the more relevant due to the fact that that those that oppose him are so strong and interesting in their own right.

Cheers

Sage · Jan 27, 2006

There's nothing wrong w/ sharing main character-dom. If we don't meet someone for, say, a fourth of the novel, but they are the romantic lead, nobody says that they can't be equally important as your original MC (this is something I could see happening when you don't have a path already set for the novel). Let them share. Just don't get carried away & keep introducing new MCs. If people keep popping up & you want to give them their own story, that should probably be restricted to a new novel.

How do you handle support characters that are too strong?

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