For those of you who outline, can you give me a quick rundown of how you do yours? I'm not good at the roman numeral thing.
How do You do an outline?
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I do mine from beginning to end as a sequential narrative, with dialog, descriptiion, and characters all sketched in, about 1/2 to 3/4 the length of the finished novel.
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I don't outline.
I do try to do up a short summary and hopefully work out some of the preliminary issues of the story. But, because I'm a character-focused writer, so much of the story will hinge on how the characters develop when they make first contact with the story.
I do try to do up a short summary and hopefully work out some of the preliminary issues of the story. But, because I'm a character-focused writer, so much of the story will hinge on how the characters develop when they make first contact with the story.
I usually do a chapter by chapter outline, in which I use a couple sentences to describe what each chapter is about.
James D. Macdonald said:
This is the outline you write from, not the outline you send out. Right?
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Julie Worth said:
If I were to send an outline, I'd write the book first then do a short narrative summary of the completed work.
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With my old project, I made bullet points with one scentence each for every major event I wanted to happen, then made smaller bullet points for all the events in between, and kept getting smaller if I needed it. I ended up with about three pages of bullet points, summing up the whole story.
With my WIP, I'm trying a different tactic, and writing it as I go along. It's a completely different experience.
With my WIP, I'm trying a different tactic, and writing it as I go along. It's a completely different experience.
I usually write without an outline, but on my current WIP I have a rough one. It began as a NaNo book and I knew I'd never get 50,000 words written in a month if I didn't have a fairly good idea of what should happen when. I outlined chapter by chapter, using subheadings that suggested events to me even if I hadn't decided what the events were. Some of them get changed as I reach them, but they provide a useful springboard to the chapter.
For instance, the chapter I'm working on now is outlined thusly:
XV. Taking Sides
The surprising Mr. Peacock - Dexarth's confession - A gentleman caller
No real details, but I work them out as I approach; I also add stuff as I go. It's working for me, although I don't know if it would work for anyone else. I find it both a guide and a challenge.
For instance, the chapter I'm working on now is outlined thusly:
XV. Taking Sides
The surprising Mr. Peacock - Dexarth's confession - A gentleman caller
No real details, but I work them out as I approach; I also add stuff as I go. It's working for me, although I don't know if it would work for anyone else. I find it both a guide and a challenge.
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I tend to outline in a lot of detail, especially for the stories that require a greater amount of precision (like the one I'm currently writing - I HAVE to keep track of who's where and at what time and how fast they could be travelling, how far apart they likely are, when group B will catch up to group A, and so forth - so I had to do all the math first to make sure what I was suggesting was possible). I'll write anywhere from a sentence to a paragraph for each scene, including POV, who's in that scene, and anything that's important for me to remember. I have a lousy memory, so I need all the help I can get. 
I tend to do something that's similar to SnowFlaking, but of course modified for my own nefarious purposes. I also tend to get my writing husband involved - he's great for seeing logic holes and tired plots and such and suggesting something better.
I tend to do something that's similar to SnowFlaking, but of course modified for my own nefarious purposes.
I also tend to get my writing husband involved - he's great for seeing logic holes and tired plots and such and suggesting something better.piper said:
Who is? There is no need of anything so formal. But, as Cromwell said, no man goes so far as he who does not know where he is going, so it's a good idea, I think, to have some sort of list of topics, or scenes, or events, to be covered, before writing a chapter. It is possible just to have this "outline" in your head. Everyone has different methods, of different levels of formality.
My former English teachers would not approve of my outlines. No Roman numerals, and often I wind up with lots of arrows and writing on the back of the pages when I think of new things I want to put in, or have a difficult section to work through.
And once my outline is done, I don't keep it next to my writing area. I just look at it every few days to make sure I'm not forgetting something good. But while I'm writing, I put outline notes in at the end of the day -- brief things like [cat comes back. Jerry scared and runs. Meets Sarah. Big fight. Night falls and the horn sounds.]
It doesn't really matter how you do it -- as long as it helps get your story written.
And once my outline is done, I don't keep it next to my writing area. I just look at it every few days to make sure I'm not forgetting something good. But while I'm writing, I put outline notes in at the end of the day -- brief things like [cat comes back. Jerry scared and runs. Meets Sarah. Big fight. Night falls and the horn sounds.]
It doesn't really matter how you do it -- as long as it helps get your story written.
I write down scene ideas on notecards (one per notecard), then play around with their order, adding and removing scenes. Once I'm happy with what I've got, I write it all down on the computer, adding comments/ideas/dialogue as I go.
The first time I did this I ended up with 9000 words for a planned 90,000 word novel, and it gave me to confidence to sit down and start writing - because I knew exactly where I needed to go.
(Though, I did end up re-doing the second quarter of the book 3 times, because what looked good on the outline ended up being really weak once written.)
The first time I did this I ended up with 9000 words for a planned 90,000 word novel, and it gave me to confidence to sit down and start writing - because I knew exactly where I needed to go.
(Though, I did end up re-doing the second quarter of the book 3 times, because what looked good on the outline ended up being really weak once written.)
Actually I do use the Roman numeral thing, because of the way I outline.
I'll take a story and break it down into four, five, six, or however many bits. That becomes the top level of my hierarchy, and a very rudimentary outline of the story.
Once I've got that overall outline, I'll focus in on the first point, and give it it's own little outline, pretty much so that it becomes a little sub-story in it's own right, with its own outline, the points of which become the chapters of the book.
For a novel, I'll go one step further and break each chapter down into a number of "scenes", so there's my third level of the hierarchy.
Generally, I outline as I go. While I'm writing the first section/chapter/scene, the following sections/chapters/scenes are only vaguely defined. I'll fill them out as I get to them. So, I will only finish my outline as I finish the first draft. I find that way I'm not straightjacketing myself with a bunch of fussy little plot points I wrote down before I even began getting into the story. This means there's room for my story to breathe and to develop as it will, while at the same time, I've got some general goals to work towards (and the further away they are, the more general they are).
I'll take a story and break it down into four, five, six, or however many bits. That becomes the top level of my hierarchy, and a very rudimentary outline of the story.
Once I've got that overall outline, I'll focus in on the first point, and give it it's own little outline, pretty much so that it becomes a little sub-story in it's own right, with its own outline, the points of which become the chapters of the book.
For a novel, I'll go one step further and break each chapter down into a number of "scenes", so there's my third level of the hierarchy.
Generally, I outline as I go. While I'm writing the first section/chapter/scene, the following sections/chapters/scenes are only vaguely defined. I'll fill them out as I get to them. So, I will only finish my outline as I finish the first draft. I find that way I'm not straightjacketing myself with a bunch of fussy little plot points I wrote down before I even began getting into the story. This means there's room for my story to breathe and to develop as it will, while at the same time, I've got some general goals to work towards (and the further away they are, the more general they are).
I outline in my head, and even that is fairly vague (not my head but the outline).
I tried a written outline once, including scenes I knew for sure would happen, but I got carried away and wrote the whole book.
I tried a written outline once, including scenes I knew for sure would happen, but I got carried away and wrote the whole book.
I agree with ted_curtis. Everyone who outlines does it differently, and it may take some experimenting to find the method that works best for you.
For the last novel I finished, I wrote my outline on notecards. Each card was a scene, and each card held different amounts of information. Simply a location and a bit of action. Others had snippets of dialogue I wanted to use, or the entire card was filled with notes on the scene.
I did it a little differently for my WIP. I typed it out, seven pages, single spaced. Each scene is a paragraph. Some paragraphs are two lines, some are seven or eight. But again, I only wrote down the information I needed to get the essence of the scene across. When I was finished, I sat down and read the outline straight through. I moved a few scenes, tweaked some information, removed a thing or two.
But notecard or printed page, this sort of outlining (which is probably closer to writing a synopsis of the action) works best for me.
Good luck finding the method that works best for you.
For the last novel I finished, I wrote my outline on notecards. Each card was a scene, and each card held different amounts of information. Simply a location and a bit of action. Others had snippets of dialogue I wanted to use, or the entire card was filled with notes on the scene.
I did it a little differently for my WIP. I typed it out, seven pages, single spaced. Each scene is a paragraph. Some paragraphs are two lines, some are seven or eight. But again, I only wrote down the information I needed to get the essence of the scene across. When I was finished, I sat down and read the outline straight through. I moved a few scenes, tweaked some information, removed a thing or two.
But notecard or printed page, this sort of outlining (which is probably closer to writing a synopsis of the action) works best for me.
Good luck finding the method that works best for you.
There are several good (free) websites that deal with various writer's needs; outlines, query letters, etc. One is put out by the Peace Corps aclled "How to write a novel in 100 days or less. Here is the url
http://www.peacecorpswriters.org/pages/depts/resources/resour_writers/100daysbook/bk100da.html
Michael
http://www.peacecorpswriters.org/pages/depts/resources/resour_writers/100daysbook/bk100da.html
Michael
Thanks so much for all of the great advice. I kept thinking I had to use roman numerals for an outline. I like the bullet idea, and I am using the notecard idea now for my screenplay. That's nice b/c you can lay it out and move things around. Also, you can pick a scene and write it, then fit it in where it belongs.
Thanks!
Piper
Thanks!
Piper
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The Roman-numeral outlines I learned how to do back in grade school were the bane of my existence. I just can't work with information in that way. Same thing with bulleted lists. Mentally, I lock up when confronted with either one. I need something more organic.
I start out with 3x5 cards, and once I have the plot pretty well figured out I sit down and type them all up, expanding on them as I go. As I'm developing the outline, I skip around a lot; if I have an idea for the dialogue in a particular scene, or want to make sure a subplot gets developed adequately all the way through, I'll work on that. I still get a lot of ideas during this stage, and I make a lot of decisions about whose POV will get used, which get woven in as I see fit. I also make notes in brackest at the beginning of each scene with the time/date, POV, and location--[Sunday, 31 July 2001; Will's POV; Kim's house, late afternoon], for example. That way, my chronology doesn't get all screwed up. Sometimes, I'll make a note to myself about the weather or the overall mood I want to convey in that scene. I even include details that I know aren't going to make it into the final draft, but might help me capture the "feel" I originally imagined days or weeks (or even months) later, as I'm writing the first draft.
By the time I'm done, I have a rough version of the story that, like Uncle Jim's, is about 1/2 to 3/4 the length of the finished version. It ain't pretty, but it tells me exactly where I need to go, and will keep me on track until I get there.
I start out with 3x5 cards, and once I have the plot pretty well figured out I sit down and type them all up, expanding on them as I go. As I'm developing the outline, I skip around a lot; if I have an idea for the dialogue in a particular scene, or want to make sure a subplot gets developed adequately all the way through, I'll work on that. I still get a lot of ideas during this stage, and I make a lot of decisions about whose POV will get used, which get woven in as I see fit. I also make notes in brackest at the beginning of each scene with the time/date, POV, and location--[Sunday, 31 July 2001; Will's POV; Kim's house, late afternoon], for example. That way, my chronology doesn't get all screwed up. Sometimes, I'll make a note to myself about the weather or the overall mood I want to convey in that scene. I even include details that I know aren't going to make it into the final draft, but might help me capture the "feel" I originally imagined days or weeks (or even months) later, as I'm writing the first draft.
By the time I'm done, I have a rough version of the story that, like Uncle Jim's, is about 1/2 to 3/4 the length of the finished version. It ain't pretty, but it tells me exactly where I need to go, and will keep me on track until I get there.
I find - in my humble unpublished way - that it helps if the outline reads like a story, rather than a list of events.
Specifically, I like lots of sentences beginning, "However...." or of the form "........., but........". This enables me to dwell on the bits of the story where stuff actually happens.
Specifically, I like lots of sentences beginning, "However...." or of the form "........., but........". This enables me to dwell on the bits of the story where stuff actually happens.
As a rule I don't outline, I just write and see which way my muse kicks me. Recently however I have started outlining for very short stretches when I get in trouble.
Although I can count from I to M in Roman numerals without too much trouble I just use bullet points for these micro-outlines. I usually do between three and five points, to keep me going or to keep me from forgetting an important point. Each has just a few keywords, or at most a sentence.
In case you'd like to know the specifics of how this works for me here they are: for my current WIP, now at 115k words there are 7 of these little lists so far. In total they have some 30 bullet points and cover some 30k words.
Although I can count from I to M in Roman numerals without too much trouble I just use bullet points for these micro-outlines. I usually do between three and five points, to keep me going or to keep me from forgetting an important point. Each has just a few keywords, or at most a sentence.
In case you'd like to know the specifics of how this works for me here they are: for my current WIP, now at 115k words there are 7 of these little lists so far. In total they have some 30 bullet points and cover some 30k words.
piper said:
I plot the story using UML in VISIO. I'm a software engineer, and find some of UML (Universal Modelling Language) very good for detailing interactions between characters.
I never did use an outline for my novel. I just started writing down scenes and combining them into chapters. And BOY, did I learn my lesson! I had to fight plot holes and insidious contradictions, and impossible-to-resolve conflicts. (It gave me a wonderful insight into the ancient use of deus ex machina
)
Yep, it was truly enlightening. I will never do that again.
Outlines are good.
Any kind of outline.
Yep, it was truly enlightening. I will never do that again.
Outlines are good.
Any kind of outline.
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My method is similar to the index card, but in Excel. I've tried the virtual index cards in Visio, but I get too fussy with presentation. Using excel, I create columns for each major story arc or POV character, and also for background events. Then I create a column for internal timeline, and another for the chronological timeline. These allow me to sort events by when they happen, or where they are located in the story.
Then fill in the events when they are taking place and in which POV or arc. Usually try to put 50-100 words for each scene. With the document filled out and sorted correctly, I can write each cell as a scene and locate it in the story where needed, or reference what comes after should the arc take a turn.
For my fantasy WIP, this helped me get out of a tough background gap, and built more political suspense than I thought, augmenting the physical danger I was already plotting.
Then fill in the events when they are taking place and in which POV or arc. Usually try to put 50-100 words for each scene. With the document filled out and sorted correctly, I can write each cell as a scene and locate it in the story where needed, or reference what comes after should the arc take a turn.
For my fantasy WIP, this helped me get out of a tough background gap, and built more political suspense than I thought, augmenting the physical danger I was already plotting.
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I did not used to outline (hence why my first book has taken almost 5 years now).
I picked up First Draft in 30 days by Karen Wiesner. It is a book on outlining your novel. I really like this method...the way I use it (I'm finishing up that first novel draft, and I have outlines for several more now) is detailed on my website blog and in the reviews section.
How to Write a Mystery Novel has an interesting approach to outlines for just a mystery novel. I don't write them so I don't use it. (I ended up with the book as fluke).
I picked up First Draft in 30 days by Karen Wiesner. It is a book on outlining your novel. I really like this method...the way I use it (I'm finishing up that first novel draft, and I have outlines for several more now) is detailed on my website blog and in the reviews section.
How to Write a Mystery Novel has an interesting approach to outlines for just a mystery novel. I don't write them so I don't use it. (I ended up with the book as fluke).
Tirjasdyn, I looked at your blog but couldn't find the part about the book and outlining. I must have missed it What is it titled under?
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