Me and ...

TheIT · Jan 13, 2006

Grammar question. I was taught to refer to myself last in a list of names. For example:

"Mary, Fred, and I are going to the store."

"They gave the award to Larry, Joan, and me."

But nowadays I often hear people say "me and ...", and each time I hear it I grit my teeth since it sounds wrong. Example:

"They asked me and George to reply." as opposed to "They asked George and me to reply."

Is "me and ..." grammatically incorrect? Is putting myself last in a list of names a grammar rule or just courtesy?

Shadow_Ferret · Jan 13, 2006

I always SAY "me and so-and-so." I never WRITE "me and so-and-so."

azbikergirl · Jan 13, 2006

It's a grammar rule and courtesy, something many people ignore these days.

Jamesaritchie · Jan 13, 2006

Me

TheIT said:
Grammar question. I was taught to refer to myself last in a list of names. For example:

"Mary, Fred, and I are going to the store."

"They gave the award to Larry, Joan, and me."

But nowadays I often hear people say "me and ...", and each time I hear it I grit my teeth since it sounds wrong. Example:

"They asked me and George to reply." as opposed to "They asked George and me to reply."

Is "me and ..." grammatically incorrect? Is putting myself last in a list of names a grammar rule or just courtesy?

But remember that sometimes grammatically correct is fiction incorrect. In dialogue, write it the way the character would say it.

Celia Cyanide · Jan 13, 2006

Shadow_Ferret said:
I always SAY "me and so-and-so." I never WRITE "me and so-and-so."

Me and Shadow Ferret agree on this.

In dialog, people do usually say this. It's gramatically incorrect, but it's so common in colloquial speech that it sounds natural in dialog. To be honest, I usually say it, even though I know it's wrong. But yes, it's wrong.

Cathy C · Jan 13, 2006

James is correct. If you type that Mary says, "Joe, Bob and I are going to the store. Would you like to come along?" LOOKS great on paper. But it's not how people say it out loud. It will come out more like, "Hey, Joe! Me and Bob are going to the store. Want to come along?"

People speak in sentence fragments with incorrect grammar. They know better, but they still do it. So your dialogue lines should reflect that.

blacbird · Jan 13, 2006

Cathy C said:
People speak in sentence fragments with incorrect grammar. They know better, but they still do it.

They don't always know better. I mean, there is the President of the United States.

caw.

loquax · Jan 13, 2006

I once saw this show, some stupid thing about gardens or something, and the presenter finished the program by saying "... join David and I next week."

Yup.

Celia Cyanide · Jan 13, 2006

loquax said:
I once saw this show, some stupid thing about gardens or something, and the presenter finished the program by saying "... join David and I next week."

Yup.

And that's the other side of it...people say it that way to sound smart, when that's actually wrong too!

TheIT · Jan 13, 2006

Agreed, dialog should be natural and should contain grammar mistakes if it's in keeping with the character. I don't think my characters will make this particular mistake since it's one of my pet peeves regarding grammar and I'd have to go to great lengths to force myself to type it.

Which brings up another question. Narrative voice vs. character voice. If you're writing in third person limited POV, how close does the narrative voice have to match the character? One of my POV characters is poorly educated but she's not stupid and is very observant. When describing things from her POV but not from inside her head, how sophisticated can I get before it becomes jarring? I sometimes find myself choosing words for narrative description which capture the situation but are not words she would use or even know.

Vomaxx · Jan 13, 2006

In dialogue, as some have said, characters must talk naturally, so of course some will say "Me and him", "Please see Bill or I", etc. You can hardly have all your characters speaking correct grammar! The better-educated will usually observe the niceties more than the unschooled, just as in real life.

SC Harrison · Jan 13, 2006

Not that I, uh, need the instruction myself, but, could somebody give some "me and I" rules along with some examples? For the other people, you see.

reph · Jan 13, 2006

TheIT said:
Grammar question. I was taught to refer to myself last in a list of names. For example:

"Mary, Fred, and I are going to the store."

"They gave the award to Larry, Joan, and me."...

Is "me and ..." grammatically incorrect? Is putting myself last in a list of names a grammar rule or just courtesy?

It isn't a grammar rule. Grammar doesn't dictate the order of names and pronouns in a list unless a pronoun refers to someone in the list. That is, you don't say "I saw her son and my cousin at the store." It's "I saw my cousin and her son at the store."

It's a courtesy and often a way to avoid awkwardness. "I and Jonathan had pizza" sounds odd. "The waiter brought a pizza to me and Jonathan" sounds all right to me.

Sometimes you'd have to practice a "me first" policy. "The governor's proposal alarms me and all other citizens who are concerned about the budget crisis."

CaoPaux · Jan 13, 2006

I love this site:

http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/grammar/g_proncase.html

TheIT · Jan 13, 2006

SC Harrison said:
Not that I, uh, need the instruction myself, but, could somebody give some "me and I" rules along with some examples? For the other people, you see.

I think what confuses people about me vs. I is when you're including yourself in a list as opposed when you're standing alone. Say the sentence to yourself as if it was just you, then use the word which matches. You can use the same technique with any pronoun to determine the correct choice.

For example:

"John and me went to the store." You wouldn't say "Me went to the store", so the correct choice here is "I".

Same with "They gave the award to John and I." The sentence "They gave the award to I" is incorrect, so the choice here is "me".

TheIT · Jan 13, 2006

Vomaxx said:
In dialogue, as some have said, characters must talk naturally, so of course some will say "Me and him", "Please see Bill or I", etc. You can hardly have all your characters speaking correct grammar! The better-educated will usually observe the niceties more than the unschooled, just as in real life.

Agreed, but this particular bias to put myself last is so ingrained I'd have a hard time breaking it even if the character wanted to say it. I've discovered I've got other pronoun troubles, though, so maybe that'll make up for it.

Looking at the link CaoPaux included (thanks!), all of the examples sound perfectly correct to me except one:
NOT: He is taller than me.
(Would you say, "than me am tall"?)

"He is taller than I" might be grammatically correct, but it sure sounds strange to my ears.

reph · Jan 13, 2006

You'd say "He is taller than I am." That's why you use "I": the "am" is elided. It's implicitly there, but it's invisible.

I noticed something in Louis L'Amour's western novels that must have been a resolution of the clash between the way his rural characters the Sacketts would have talked at that time in history and what the author knew was correct. In dialogue or first-person narration, whenever a character needed to make such a comparison, he wouldn't say "He drinks more than I" (correct) or "He drinks more than me" (incorrect but realistic). He'd say "He drinks more than I do." That sounds okay to everybody.

SC Harrison · Jan 13, 2006

Me is learning something good here. Thanks for helping I

Ken Schneider · Jan 13, 2006

In dialogue it is fine. People speek in many ways.

"We ain't got no bathroom," the station attendant said with a Southern draw.

When writing you would only use the, "Me, or, I, in first person anyway.

In third it wouldn't come into play, of course.

I write the way people talk, otherwise it sounds stilted.

MTC.

DamaNegra · Jan 13, 2006

There's a saying about using me and... (lol yes, me and my sayings)

Whenever someone says "me and..." it is not uncommon to hear "the *** goes first." Notice that it's '***' as in 'donkey'. It is considered unpolite to say me before anyone else, but each day many people say it.

Me and ...

TheIT

Infuriatingly Theoretical

Shadow_Ferret

Court Jester

azbikergirl

I really do look like this.

Jamesaritchie

Celia Cyanide

Joker Groupie

Cathy C

Ooo! Shiny new cover!

blacbird

loquax

I verb nouns adverbly

Celia Cyanide

Joker Groupie

TheIT

Infuriatingly Theoretical

Vomaxx

SC Harrison

Dances With Hamsters

reph

Fig of authority

CaoPaux

Mostly Harmless

TheIT

Infuriatingly Theoretical

TheIT

Infuriatingly Theoretical

reph

Fig of authority

SC Harrison

Dances With Hamsters

Ken Schneider

Absolute sagebrush

DamaNegra

Mexican on the loose!