Lines per Page in Manuscript

Cheryll · Jan 12, 2006

Greetings, everyone.

I'm sure this question has been asked before, but I couldn't find it in the archives.

When typing your manuscript- standard double-spaced, one-inch margins - etc. etc. how do you get exactly 24 or 25 lines per page? The reason why I ask is that Word varies the lines per page, depending on the length of the following line or paragraph on the next page. Does that make sense? LOL

For example, if the next paragraph on the following page is rather lengthy, the previous page will automatically be cut off before Line 24 or 25, sometimes as short as Line 21. But if the next line or paragraph is, say, only one or two lines, the previous page cuts off at Line 24 or 25. What can I do to fix this?

Cheryll

Aconite · Jan 12, 2006

Cheryll, turn off Widows and Orphans and see if that solves the problem.

Cheryll · Jan 12, 2006

Aconite: Sorry... I have no idea what Widows and Orphans is (??)

Cheryll

blacbird · Jan 12, 2006

"Widows and orphans" are partial single lines at the beginning or the end of paragraphs that either wind up a the bottom or the top of a page. MS-Word, in its infinite wisdom, has a default set to eliminate these by leaving a blank line in the space where they would normally fall, thus resulting in pages of varying numbers of lines. You can turn it off by going to the menu, FORMAT, PARAGRAPH, and I think the second tab on the dialog box has a check-box for Widows and Orphans. Oh, and you also need to select (highlight) your entire manuscript before doing so, so that the command applies to the whole thing.

Hope this helps.

caw.

Aconite · Jan 12, 2006

What blacbird said. (Though I think Word also keeps at least two lines of any paragraph on a page, whether they're partial or not. I'm on a Mac now, so it's been a while since I've had to know that.)

If turning off Widows and Orphans doesn't do the trick, try FORMAT, PARAGRAPH, and setting "Exactly" 25 pt. That ought to force 25 lines per page.

Cheryll · Jan 12, 2006

blacbird and Aconite: I tried the Widows and Orphans thing, but it didn't work. :Shrug:

I'm still varying between 22 and 25 lines per page.

Aconite: When I go to PARAGRAPH and then to LINE AND PAGE BREAKS, the options I am given are: Widow/Orphan control, Keep lines together, Keep with next, Page break before, Suppress line numbers, and Don't hyphenate.

????

Cheryll

Julie Worth · Jan 12, 2006

Best to do it with the style. Click Format/Style Select the Normal style. Click Modify/Format/Paragraph/Line and Page Breaks. Then unselect everything.

Cheryll · Jan 12, 2006

So I highlight my entire manuscript before I do that?

Cheryll

Julie Worth · Jan 12, 2006

No. But it will only effect what is in the Normal style.

Cheryll · Jan 12, 2006

I must be doing something wrong. Nothing's changed.

Julie Worth · Jan 12, 2006

Is your text in the Normal style? And are you selecting 'Normal' from the list of styles?

It's possible that you've overridden the style, in which case you will have to select all, and do it that way.

Cheryll · Jan 12, 2006

Julie: When I hit "Normal", it changes my text to single space. (??)

Cheryll

FolkloreFanatic · Jan 12, 2006

Whatever you try, you should select all of your text that you want formatted first. Heck, copy and paste all of it into a new word file if you're nervous about fiddling.

The first time I format my ms in Word 2000, I type some gibberish text, select everything and then make sure the pull-down menu on the top has some kind of single format select, be it default paragraph font, normal, or whatever. Then I click on Format at the top of the screen and select 'paragraph' on the pull-down menu. The dialogue box pops up with two tabs: 'indents and spacing' and 'line and page breaks.' On the first, I set the box below 'line spacing' to the word 'exactly.' Then I choose '25pt' in the smaller drop-down box right next to it. After that, I click on the second tab and uncheck everything.

Julie Worth · Jan 12, 2006

Obviously, Cheryll, you've been doing everything manually, instead of letting word do it with the style. Go to 'indents and spacing', and select double space as the default for 'normal'. (I actually use 1.9 spaces to get the 25 lines/page.)

Using styles is very powerful. For instance, use the 'Heading 1' style for your chapter headings. Set it up to center, to use a different font, to start 1/3 down the page, to follow with the normal style, to start on a new page, and then you don't have to worry about it ever again. Once you have the styles the way you want for your ms, save a blank copy as a template, then you don't have to set it up every time.

In the Formatting toolbar, look to the left of the box showing the font style. That’s the style you’re using. Use the drop down to see what’s available. You can change those any way you like, and you can create new ones.

James D. Macdonald · Jan 12, 2006

When you get Word, go into it with fire and sword and turn off every single option, every helpful little subroutine, all the spell-as-you go, complete the word, grammar check, widows-and-orphans, smartquotes, automatic formatting junk. Everything. Turn it all off.

You don't need any of that stuff and you don't want any of that stuff. It's all garbage.

The closer you can get to making your wordprocessor into an unadorned typewriter, the better you are.

Cheryll · Jan 12, 2006

Ahhhhhh... I got it! Couldn't find the "exactly 25" thing, but I finally found it. LOL I shaved off over 25 pages of wasted space.

Julie: I see what you mean about using Style vs. doing everything manually. I will look further into that... would be quite helpful with chapter starts, etc.

Thanks, everyone!

Cheryll

Sharon Mock · Jan 12, 2006

Cheryll said:
When I go to PARAGRAPH and then to LINE AND PAGE BREAKS, the options I am given are: Widow/Orphan control, Keep lines together, Keep with next, Page break before, Suppress line numbers, and Don't hyphenate.

Turning off widow/orphan control isn't enough to get a consistant line count per page.

Try this:

Select the entire manuscript (control-A or cloverleaf-A).

Turn off everything in the first part of the window: widow/orphan control, keep lines together, keep with next, page break before. (Make sure they're turned off--the check boxes are empty. A - isn't good enough.)

Leave the last two alone (suppress line numbers, don't hyphenate) unless Word is autohyphenating.

This is the best instructions for manuscript formatting I've come across. You should get a consistent line count using this method. (If that line count isn't quite 25, try adjusting the line spacing in the header.)

Hope this helps!

Cheryll · Jan 12, 2006

James D. Macdonald said:
When you get Word, go into it with fire and sword and turn off every single option, every helpful little subroutine, all the spell-as-you go, complete the word, grammar check, widows-and-orphans, smartquotes, automatic formatting junk. Everything. Turn it all off.

James: My computer has all that???

Cheryll

Cheryll · Jan 12, 2006

Sharon Mock said:
(Make sure they're turned off--the check boxes are empty. A - isn't good enough.)

I found that out the hard way. I turned them off completely. Thanks.

Julie Worth · Jan 12, 2006

Sharon Mock said:
Turning off widow/orphan control isn't enough to get a consistant line count per page.

Try this:

Select the entire manuscript (control-A or cloverleaf-A).

Turn off everything in the first part of the window: widow/orphan control, keep lines together, keep with next, page break before. (Make sure they're turned off--the check boxes are empty. A - isn't good enough.)

You don't want to do this if you're using styles. And you should be using styles. It saves an awful amount of work.

Jamesaritchie · Jan 12, 2006

Lines

If you're using word, the right way to get twenty-five lines per page is to forget all about top and bottom margins. Go to Format, then click on Paragraph. Under "Indents and Spacing go down to the box that's labeled "Line Spacing." Set this to "Exactly." The box next to it is labeled "At." set this to "25 pt."

This will force each full page to have exactly twenty-five lines.

With some versions of word you may have to "Select All" before doing this, but it works.

scarletpeaches · Jan 12, 2006

And in some versions of Word you have to set it to 27 to get exactly 25 lines per page...

Julie Worth · Jan 12, 2006

Jamesaritchie said:
If you're using word, the right way to get twenty-five lines per page is to forget all about top and bottom margins. Go to Format, then click on Paragraph. Under "Indents and Spacing go down to the box that's labeled "Line Spacing." Set this to "Exactly." The box next to it is labeled "At." set this to "25 pt."

This will force each full page to have exactly twenty-five lines.

With some versions of word you may have to "Select All" before doing this, but it works.

Ignore the margins? That makes no sense at all.

Jamesaritchie · Jan 12, 2006

Word

scarletpeaches said:
And in some versions of Word you have to set it to 27 to get exactly 25 lines per page...

Really? I've never had that happen. It always works at 25 with the versions of Word I've used. Though I didn't use Word before 2000. But with 2000, Xp, and 2003, it always works at 25.

Now, if I can just figure out how to do the same thing with WordPerfect.

scarletpeaches · Jan 12, 2006

No, with XP and 2000 it doesn't always work.

But as long as I can get 25 lines per page, that's all I need worry about.

Lines per Page in Manuscript

Cheryll

Aconite

Cheryll

blacbird

Aconite

Cheryll

Julie Worth

What? I have a title?

Cheryll

Julie Worth

What? I have a title?

Cheryll

Julie Worth

What? I have a title?

Cheryll

FolkloreFanatic

The Arthurian Addict.

Julie Worth

What? I have a title?

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle

Cheryll

Sharon Mock

Wing nut

Cheryll

Cheryll

Julie Worth

What? I have a title?

Jamesaritchie

scarletpeaches

Julie Worth

What? I have a title?

Jamesaritchie

scarletpeaches