Sad about HP comparisons

heza · May 15, 2012

[long rant, sorry]

I'm sad and frustrated.

I'm writing an upper MG book about children dealing with their problems in a world where magic is the norm. Obviously, I'm going to have some challenges in making this sufficiently different from Harry Potter. I thought I had come up with a premise and plot that was a fairly newish twist, a reasonably good voice, dynamic characters, each with their own story...

But I've got a few supportive RL friends who let me talk about the WIP, and everytime I say something new about it, I get the response, "Oh, just like Harry Potter!" I mean... on everything.

Some of it is justified... I came up with a plot that on the surface seemed sufficiently distant, but then a friend walked me through the logic of it, and yeah... so that was sort of like horcruxes... not exactly--different reason, different effect, different consequences, different plot purpose, etc.--but it's reminiscent. So that has to go... and now I have no plot, but that's happened like 20 times already. Anyway.

But it's also stuff like my MC has a cat... and that's just like Mrs. Norris!

My MC goes to school... that's just like Hogwarts!

There are horses in my book... that's just like thestrals!

A part of me is frustrated because I'm assuming that, okay, maybe taken out of context, these things might make you think of Harry Potter, but together, within the confines of my original world and story, with my characters and their different problems, it won't seem like that.

Another part of me is sad because I worry that maybe I am just writing derivative crap. Maybe I'm totally ripping off every single thing I've ever read and I have no concept of how to come up with an idea of my own.

One friend's advice was to just start from scratch and change everything. Another friend suggested setting it in Boston (and we know how that went). And a third said to go ahead and keep everything like Harry Potter just because I love the story but don't try to publish it (turn it into fanfiction, basically--even though it's not the same story or characters!).

I need some encouragement... or maybe tough love. Is this just enthusiastic friends comparing random pieces of my story to the only MG magic story they've ever heard of and stretching the comparisons? Or... is this just not going to work and maybe it's time to trunk this idea and move onto the next WIP? (Which I'll probably discover is derivative of something else.)

I'm actually about to cry. It's so maddening. I mean, I know that there are no new ideas, that there are only so many stories in the world, and that it's all about your own spin and your own voice.... but still. I thought I had a good story, and all I'm hearing when I talk about it is "Oh, yeah. That's a great idea. That's why Rowling already did it."

mirandashell · May 15, 2012

Ok, here's a bit of advice.

Stop talking to your friends about it.

Seriously, stop talking about it. Because when you do, their opinions and views get into your head and screw up what you're trying to do.

If you think it's sufficiently non-derivative, then start writing it. When you feel ready, when the spelling and grammar are nice and polished, put the beginning on SYW and let total strangers tell you if it's derivative or not.

Because no-one can know until it's written. Not your friends, not us, not an agent. No-one.

Always remember, it's your story. It's you telling it. Write it your own way.

CFraser · May 15, 2012

It's certainly a tough situation. My sister is going through a similar situation, writing a YA fantasy based book, and she is also a huge fan of the Harry Potter series.

I read her first book (it's a series) and I felt the similarities to HP were overwhelming, and I mentioned this to her ,and I think she had the same reaction as you are expressing in your post, mainly that of frustration. I told her that, perhaps it was my knowledge of what her main influence was that made the comparisons so obvious, and so I suggested she try to find someone to read her story who wasn't aware of it.

A part of me is frustrated because I'm assuming that, okay, maybe taken out of context, these things might make you think of Harry Potter, but together, within the confines of my original world and story, with my characters and their different problems, it won't seem like that.

Actually, I suspect it is the opposite that is true. It is the fact that all of these similar things are found in the same book that bring the comparisons into sharper focus. The more similar elements between the two stories, the more the stories will seem similar to a reader. Once people pick up on this, the differences, as interesting as they may be, will unfortunately be drowned out by the comparissons. Same problems in my sister's story. She had many similar, but tweaked elements that were too reminiscent of HP.

I recommend finding someone who doesn't know you or your influences that well, and see what they say.

Smish · May 15, 2012

Just keep writing, heza. No matter what your book's about, there are going to be comparisons. I write contemporary MG. When I tell my friends and family, they say things like, "Oh! That sounds like a Judy Blume book." It's because Judy Blume stands out in their mind for contemporary children's fiction.

If you write anything with witches and wizards, Harry Potter is the comparison book. If you write a book involving elves, Lord of the Rings will be mentioned. If you write a book about demi-gods, get used to hearing the name Percy Jackson.

Just write. Don't worry about any of that right now.

KTC · May 15, 2012

QTF!

mirandashell said:
Ok, here's a bit of advice.

Stop talking to your friends about it.

Seriously, stop talking about it. Because when you do, their opinions and views get into your head and screw up what you're trying to do.

If you think it's sufficiently non-derivative, then start writing it. When you feel ready, when the spelling and grammar are nice and polished, put the beginning on SYW and let total strangers tell you if it's derivative or not.

Because no-one can know until it's written. Not your friends, not us, not an agent. No-one.

Always remember, it's your story. It's you telling it. Write it your own way.

Stacia Kane · May 15, 2012

mirandashell said:
Ok, here's a bit of advice.

Stop talking to your friends about it.

Seriously, stop talking about it. Because when you do, their opinions and views get into your head and screw up what you're trying to do.

If you think it's sufficiently non-derivative, then start writing it. When you feel ready, when the spelling and grammar are nice and polished, put the beginning on SYW and let total strangers tell you if it's derivative or not.

Because no-one can know until it's written. Not your friends, not us, not an agent. No-one.

Always remember, it's your story. It's you telling it. Write it your own way.

Also QFT. Your friends haven't read your story; on the surface, any story can sound like any other story. So how would they know? They don't. And suggesting you post it as fanfic instead is just rude, IMO. I'd wonder why your friends are so unsupportive of you.

And remember, readers like the familiar.

fireluxlou · May 15, 2012

I don't tell my friends because they go 'that's nice' or they say 'you should write a book on this' or they will just compare it to other stuff and do the 'do you know how hard it is to get published?' schtick as if I don't know anything.

Take your friends with a pinch of salt and just write.

Cyia · May 15, 2012

ANY book about children living in a magical world that's rooted in our own is going to be compared to HP. And if you want to pick out individual bits, then sure you can force things into a pattern that isn't there.

Okay, so you have horses. Unless they're winged, lizard-esque undead horses that feast on raw meat and can only be seen by those who've witnessed death, then they're not thestrals. They're not remotely like thestrals.

Okay, so your MC has a cat... as do most stories involving magical beings. Cats are tied to the mythos.

Okay, so your MC goes to school. Duh - he's a KID. Kids go to school. (And sometimes schools have horses and cats, even without magic in the mix)

You're not using Rowling's characters. You're not using her universe. Write your story.

heza · May 15, 2012

Thanks guys.

:e2arms:

You're the best.

I didn't mean to flail (Okay. Maybe I did a little bit)... it was just one too many comparisons, and I broke. You've helped put it back in perspective for me.

I don't feel like it's derivative. I feel like these are just normal coincidences because they both... you know, involve kids and there's magic, and some things just will be similar. But this is also my first crack at a novel, and my friends are intelligent, avid readers, so.... But you're right; I really should stop talking about it to people who 1) don't know the outline and 2) aren't well versed in the age bracket.

My friends are very supportive in lots of ways, and they want me to succeed. I think maybe they're just trying to help a bit too much. No one actually said write fanfic--she just said if I liked the story so much as it was, I should write it for the joy of it without trying to get it published (which I equated to writing fanfic).

CFraser said:
Actually, I suspect it is the opposite that is true. It is the fact that all of these similar things are found in the same book that bring the comparisons into sharper focus. The more similar elements between the two stories, the more the stories will seem similar to a reader. Once people pick up on this, the differences, as interesting as they may be, will unfortunately be drowned out by the comparissons. Same problems in my sister's story. She had many similar, but tweaked elements that were too reminiscent of HP.

What I mean is that I feel like once everything is together and those isolated parts are read in their scenes, with their own logic behind them and effects on the narrative and plot, then no one will think to make a comparison at all. (At least I'm hoping). None of them are "tweaked" HP elements.

It's like... okay, so part of the story takes place on the docks, where the characters witness big ships coming in and cargo being hauled around. And a friend said that was too much like when Durmstrang came to Hogwarts in that big ship.... but it's not the same at all. (Thank you for emphasizing that idea for me, Cyia.)

I read HP and I liked it, but I wasn't rabid over it. I'd like to emulate its success, sure, but I wouldn't consider it an "influence" per se. I mean, I can point to other things that are direct influences, but my story isn't getting compared to those things.

That's what's frustrating--I can pick any element and tell you exactly how I came around to thinking it up, and that process won't have anything to do with HP... but that's where my friends think my process started. And it's what I try to stay aware of because I do know HP is the Big One every magic book gets compared to. I'm not using HP as an influence, but I am striving for due diligence.

Thanks to all of you again. The rep points are in the mail.

Sage · May 15, 2012

Yeah, at the point where they're telling you that horses are like thestrals, you can start wondering about the validity of their comparisons. It sounds like you found some logic in the horcrux comparison, which may or may not affect how you write it, but cats and horses are not things I associate with Harry Potter.

dawinsor · May 15, 2012

From what I see in Amazon reviews, non-fantasy readers are particularly prone to comparing every fantasy to Tolkien or HP. It doesn't necessarily mean the book is derivative. It may just mean the commenter has no other point of reference.

SheilaJG · May 15, 2012

dawinsor said:
From what I see in Amazon reviews, non-fantasy readers are particularly prone to comparing every fantasy to Tolkien or HP. It doesn't necessarily mean the book is derivative. It may just mean the commenter has no other point of reference.

This is so true. I've had my work compared to HP, too, and other famous works. I take it as a warning - to let me know I need to make the differences clear.

Keep writing, and good luck heza!

frimble3 · May 15, 2012

"part of the story takes place on the docks, where the characters witness big ships coming in and cargo being hauled around. And a friend said that was too much like when Durmstrang came to Hogwarts in that big ship...."
Umm ... cargo ships at the docks being 'too much like' the Durmstrang galleon? Yeah, agreeing with others, don't let your friends read your stuff.

WildScribe · May 15, 2012

I hope you're feeling better already, but if not, let me see if I can help.

J.K. Rowling... was REALLY not very original. Coming of age in a magical society is something that has been done over and over, as is the "chosen one" trope and most of what else she put in there... she just did it in a way that lots of people enjoyed.

You're probably doing great. Try not to worry so much about what your friends think. In fact... probably best not to let them read it for now.

Channy · May 15, 2012

This is EXACTLY why I'm sticking my book into a YA Sci-fi genre. There hasn't really been any one author who stands out that'll get me comparisons. Maybe that makes me butthurt about it, maybe not.

But so far for every genre, there's been a massively successful author that's going to get comparisons. "You could be the next Rowling, the next Collins, the next Martin!".. it's nice initially, but you want your stuff to shine on its own.

Is it 100% possible though? Not really. A multitude of ideas and stories and characters have been woven together over the years, that in some way something you write will get compared to something else.

Should you worry if your MC has a Cat like Mrs Norris? No. Should you worry if your MC has a scar somewhere on their body that's been with them since birth and makes them famous? Probably.

MsJudy · May 15, 2012

I'll just repeat the advice you've already gotten:

Don't talk to your friends about it.

I'm serious. Do NOT talk over your ideas with other people until you have polished them up. Because all you're going to get is a bunch of well-intentioned not-help.

Personally, I'm terribly superstitious about it. My ideas are like little precious seedlings, and I need to nurture them in a locked greenhouse until they've grown strong enough for exposure to the great outdoors. Bringing them out before they're ready... They might get trampled on, or shriveled up, or overrun with noxious weeds.

It isn't worth the risk.

t0dd · May 15, 2012

heza said:
But it's also stuff like my MC has a cat... and that's just like Mrs. Norris!

Since Mrs. Norris wasn't even Harry's cat, but was the pet cat of the unfriendly janitor Argus Filch instead, I wouldn't take that bit of criticism seriously. (They might have had a better case if they'd compared the cat in your story to Crookshanks - but even there, Crookshanks wasn't Harry's cat either, but Hermione's.)

Katrina S. Forest · May 15, 2012

Sharing for fun: http://inkygirl.com/wwfc/2007/8/15/like-harry-potter.html

Brutal Mustang · May 15, 2012

It sounds like your friends don't read much. People who don't read much compare everything to the few things they have read.

KalenO · May 16, 2012

LOL, the thing that always bugs me is when people who don't read much accuse me of ripping off the most famous story with vague similarities.....when usually I'm ripping off something MUCH more obscure.

But mentioning that always makes me feel a lot better. Do the same, turn it into a joke....I bet you it'll help.

So for instance, the next time someone compares you to Rowling, just say: 'Umm, excuse me, actually I'm ripping off Ursula K. LeGuin's A WIZARD OF EARTHSEA. You should really read more.'

Oh, and take comfort in the fact that its not just you....every author deals with it. I mean, after TWILIGHT became a huge bestseller, the publishers of THE VAMPIRE DIARIES did a massive reissue of those books. It was kinda funny (in a sad sort of way) to see all the people turning up their noses at TVD and declaring them an obvious rip-off of TWILIGHT....when THE VAMPIRE DIARIES were published fifteen years before TWILIGHT was dreamed up.

Yukinara · May 16, 2012

Well, similarity isn't exactly the worst thing. Just take a look at Eragon, some people said that the plot was taken straight out of Star Wars, but instead of sci-fi, we have high fantasy. On other note, after Twilight success, there are a tons of Twilight wannabe novels all over the market.

I know it's truly hard to come up with an original idea, because honestly, our mind is like a sponge, it absorbs something when we read and accumulates over time. I don't know your story, but if more than 1 people said that to you, and you really care that some people think about your story that way, change it. In the end, it's your book anyway.

But, if your story is about a boy who lost his parent, live with a magic-hating family, go to magic school and destined to be the destroyer of the big bad guy, well, it can cause a big red flag amongst HP fans if you publish it. Of course you can throw in something original, but does that out weight the similarities? You're the only one who can answer that question.

t0dd · May 16, 2012

Harry Potter itself has often been described as echoing Jill Murphy's "Worst Witch" series. (One major difference between the two, though, was that the "Worst Witch" didn't have a Big Bad. The first book had the MC foiling a scheme by the Headmaster's villainous sister to take over the school, but she - the sister - never returned in the series as far as I know, and the other books had different challenges, usually not coming from hostile magicians.)

fireluxlou · May 16, 2012

t0dd said:
Harry Potter itself has often been described as echoing Jill Murphy's "Worst Witch" series. (One major difference between the two, though, was that the "Worst Witch" didn't have a Big Bad. The first book had the MC foiling a scheme by the Headmaster's villainous sister to take over the school, but she - the sister - never returned in the series as far as I know, and the other books had different challenges, usually not coming from hostile magicians.)

It's also been accused of echoing Nancy Stouffer The Legend of Rah & the Muggles, The Wyrd Sisters, the film Troll (lol in names) and many other series. Didn't stop its popularity though.

jaksen · May 16, 2012

I second those who say stop talking to your friends about this. Clam up. This might be hard to do if you're the type who wants to share what they're doing, along with the enthusiasm that goes along with it. But just don't talk about it, for a lot of reasons, and one being that you are influenced by them. You seem to want their approval and you want to share what you love doing (writing).

And if you really, really need others' support, get it here. Put some of your writing up on SYW.

JK wasn't the first to write about kids at a school, kids doing magic, trolls and other supernatural creatures interacting with 'real' people. She was not the first, but her writing seemed to take on the world and even people who've never read HP seem to know a lot about her characters, her stories, and who she is.

So hunker down, keep writing, and try very hard not to be influenced by others if you do continue to show your friends your writing.

I write mysteries in which there is a teenage boy. I had one friend tell me, back in the 90's that oh, it's just like HP.

And I said who? Plus I created my little world before she did. But my stories are nothing like HP. My people live in the real world and solve mysteries, mostly criminal in nature. People want to see connections sometimes - it's part of being human. If you had been writing in 1910, your friends might be telling you, oh yeah, your story is just like the one about the girl who goes on a journey and has a little dog and meets some odd characters. You know the one? Wizard of - something.

heza · May 16, 2012

KalenO said:
LOL, the thing that always bugs me is when people who don't read much accuse me of ripping off the most famous story with vague similarities.....when usually I'm ripping off something MUCH more obscure.

But mentioning that always makes me feel a lot better. Do the same, turn it into a joke....I bet you it'll help.

So for instance, the next time someone compares you to Rowling, just say: 'Umm, excuse me, actually I'm ripping off Ursula K. LeGuin's A WIZARD OF EARTHSEA. You should really read more.'

That's it, exactly. The thing the friend said was just like horcruxes was sorcerers trapping the souls of their enemies in gems to use their power. But because Voldemort put pieces of his soul in different objects to keep himself alive, suddenly it's a rip off of Harry Potter.... When, to be perfectly honest, I've just been playing too much Elder Scrolls. (It's EXACTLY like enchanting in Elder Scrolls.) So if I'm going to get accused of ripping something off, I'd like it to at least be the real thing I inadvertently ripped off.

*Sigh* I should start mentally preparing myself for the Earthsea comparisons on my next WIP--it will have islands and a boat.

Sad about HP comparisons

heza

mirandashell

CFraser

Smish

Reads more than she writes.

KTC

Stand in the Place Where You Live

Stacia Kane

Girl Detective

fireluxlou

Cyia

Rewriting My Destiny

heza

Sage

Our Lady of Parentheticals

dawinsor

Dorothy A. Winsor

SheilaJG

frimble3

Heckuva good sport

WildScribe

Slave to the Wordcount

Channy

Me Gusta

MsJudy

t0dd

Katrina S. Forest

Brutal Mustang

Loves interplanetary chaos.

KalenO

practical experience, FTW

Yukinara

The Exile

t0dd

fireluxlou

jaksen

Caped Codder

heza