A question of ignorance

I guess an 'official' definition would be something like this: A subgenre of Fantasy; the action takes place in this world at this time, with no change in Earth's history, but rather in its dynamics (i.e., physics: usually magic is possible). Another area most often under the influence of secular paganism.

So stuff like the Dresden Files, the tv show Supernatural, the Iron Druid Chronicles, Rob Thurman's Cal Leandros series. Paranormal stuff like vampires, werewolves, angles, demons, fairies, ghosts, ect. in modern times interacting with the 'real' world. Sometimes the world knows about the paranormal, sometimes not. I think even Twilight counts as urban fantasy, despite the fact that I can't stand it. Some people may define Twilight and stories like it as 'Paranormal Romance' rather than Urban Fantasy, but honestly I think there's to small of a difference to really make a distinction. Maybe paranormal romance can be considered a sub-genre of Urban Fantasy, but personally I feel like that's splitting hairs.

Anyway, I hope that answered your question!

baileycakes14 said:

I guess an 'official' definition would be something like this: A subgenre of Fantasy; the action takes place in this world at this time, with no change in Earth's history, but rather in its dynamics (i.e., physics: usually magic is possible). Another area most often under the influence of secular paganism.

So stuff like the Dresden Files, the tv show Supernatural, the Iron Druid Chronicles, Rob Thurman's Cal Leandros series. Paranormal stuff like vampires, werewolves, angles, demons, fairies, ghosts, ect. in modern times interacting with the 'real' world. Sometimes the world knows about the paranormal, sometimes not. I think even Twilight counts as urban fantasy, despite the fact that I can't stand it. Some people may define Twilight and stories like it as 'Paranormal Romance' rather than Urban Fantasy, but honestly I think there's to small of a difference to really make a distinction. Maybe paranormal romance can be considered a sub-genre of Urban Fantasy, but personally I feel like that's splitting hairs.

Anyway, I hope that answered your question!

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Question: If I set my story in a world that is modernized like the current, but is not Earth specifically, is it still urban fantasy?

Fanatic Rat said:

Question: If I set my story in a world that is modernized like the current, but is not Earth specifically, is it still urban fantasy?

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That might be more contemporary fantasy, but I'm not sure.

I know that Urban Fantasy is supposed to focus on the city but from my understanding there are some set in small towns or places. Now, most of the towns or cities are either real places or very, very close to real places. So, it all really just depends.

From my understanding, Urban Fantasy and Paranormal Romance are very, very close to one another. However, Paranormal Romance focuses on the romance whereas in Urban Fantasy romance will be a sub-plot at the most. But the creatures--vampires, werewolves, ghosts, etc.--can exist in both genres.

This isn't an ignorant question at all. There are so many subgenres under Fantasy, that it's difficult to distinguish between them. Pretty much I agree with the above posts.

Urban Fantasy takes place in an urban setting, I don't think it matters if it's on this planet or another. I just know that the setting has to be an urban one.

Urban fantasy tends to exists in a space where fantasy crosses mystery, horror and romance. It *can* have elements of any of them (or all of them).

From the commercial POV, Urban Fantasy is usually set on Earth in a contemporary, alternate contemporary, or slightly in the future time and there's some sort of paranormal/fantasy element woven into the world (either hidden from the masses or open to them).

It's usually set in an urban (i.e., city) environment, but from the commercial POV, it doesn't have to be.

From a more academic POV, Urban Fantasy is a fantasy that takes place in a city and deals with the unique environment of the city.

So anything from American Gods to Perdido Street Station to Desden Files to Downside Ghosts can be correctly labeled as urban fantasy. And a whole lot in between.

However, you'll also have folks arguing whether those books are or are not urban fantasy based on their own personal definition of urban fantasy is.

It doesn't help that there's a very liminal line between paranormal romance and urban fantasies with a strong romantic subplots.

amergina said:

It doesn't help that there's a very liminal line between paranormal romance and urban fantasies with a strong romantic subplots.

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baileycakes14 said:

I think even Twilight counts as urban fantasy, despite the fact that I can't stand it. Some people may define Twilight and stories like it as 'Paranormal Romance' rather than Urban Fantasy, but honestly I think there's to small of a difference to really make a distinction. Maybe paranormal romance can be considered a sub-genre of Urban Fantasy, but personally I feel like that's splitting hairs.

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Both of the above make good points. I think the only reason the romance isn't Urban Fantasy Romance is because Paranormal Romance just rolls off the tongue better. But if I had to split hairs, I would call Twilight Urban Fantasy because wouldn't it need to have a HEA in every book of the series? Book 1 didn't have an HEA, did it?

Fanatic Rat said:

Question: If I set my story in a world that is modernized like the current, but is not Earth specifically, is it still urban fantasy?

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To me, that would be straight up fantasy. I think the concept of UF as a genre is that it's not just any urban setting but one that is grounded in the real world, where the reader could actually live in that city with the hidden world right under their own noses (or they could visualize their own city with an extended magical bent out in the open). Fantasy through realism, if that makes sense. I've been hearing the term "magical realism" tossed about and to me, that's just UF, too.

The trouble with genres is that everyone wants their own. I was just in B&N the other day and paid more attention to the genre labels of the aisles and what was on the shelves and the reality of that particular store is, they don't really care where they put the books. I found a ton of fantasy authors under Fiction and I found most of the UF books under Fantasy. The more popular the author, the more likely to find it under fiction. That was the feel I got from what I saw.

But there's no UF aisle or sublabel. There's no Magical Realism sublabel. Paranormal Romance, I'll admit to not looking in the romance aisle to know if it was broken down there, nor did I pay attention to see if any were in the Fantasy aisle.

I actually got a little irritated by it. I thought, well no wonder less books get sold in bookstores, you can't find them! They're all shelved in the wrong places! Of course, that's not entirely true. But I can't help thinking it's not entirely wrong, either.

It seems to me that the only thing genre labels are good for is crunching your story down to a specific interest category to target agents and publishers because bookstores sure as hell don't care about them. Readers might care a little more but I don't think they think as much about it as writers would like to believe. Those things seem to matter more to us than to them. Reviewers like them especially if they specialize but there are far fewer reviewers than there are plain old readers.

I see...it is all very confusing. Perhaps I should just write first and worry about genre later, or something. I don't plan on ever getting published anyway.

Second question: people keep mentioning vampires and ghosts and werewolves and stuff. If your setting doesn't have any of those, but has a significant fantastical element (i.e. there are things in the setting that could not exist in this world or even violate some of the rules of this world and science in-universe cannot sufficiently explain why these things happen) then is it still fantasy/urban fantasy/contemporary fantasy/able to be discussed in this section of the board?

amergina said:

It doesn't help that there's a very liminal line between paranormal romance and urban fantasies with a strong romantic subplots.

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True, completely true.

amergina said:

Urban fantasy tends to exists in a space where fantasy crosses mystery, horror and romance. It *can* have elements of any of them (or all of them).

From the commercial POV, Urban Fantasy is usually set on Earth in a contemporary, alternate contemporary, or slightly in the future time and there's some sort of paranormal/fantasy element woven into the world (either hidden from the masses or open to them).

It's usually set in an urban (i.e., city) environment, but from the commercial POV, it doesn't have to be.

From a more academic POV, Urban Fantasy is a fantasy that takes place in a city and deals with the unique environment of the city.

So anything from American Gods to Perdido Street Station to Desden Files to Downside Ghosts can be correctly labeled as urban fantasy. And a whole lot in between.

However, you'll also have folks arguing whether those books are or are not urban fantasy based on their own personal definition of urban fantasy is.

It doesn't help that there's a very liminal line between paranormal romance and urban fantasies with a strong romantic subplots.

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All of this, with one key addition. While the lines have been blurred greatly, for me one of the key elements of urban fantasy is the setting as a character. The urban (or in some cases rural) setting is so vibrant as to become a character itself. Authors like Stacia Kane, Kim Harrison, Ilona Andrews and Charlaine Harris (this would the rural UF) do this very well.

Fanatic Rat said:

Second question: people keep mentioning vampires and ghosts and werewolves and stuff. If your setting doesn't have any of those, but has a significant fantastical element (i.e. there are things in the setting that could not exist in this world or even violate some of the rules of this world and science in-universe cannot sufficiently explain why these things happen) then is it still fantasy/urban fantasy/contemporary fantasy/able to be discussed in this section of the board?

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Vampires, werewolves, supernatural creatures are the most common, but it's the setting and its impact on characters that sets fantasy into the UF subgenre.

Short answer: yes.

Fanatic Rat said:

Second question: people keep mentioning vampires and ghosts and werewolves and stuff. If your setting doesn't have any of those, but has a significant fantastical element (i.e. there are things in the setting that could not exist in this world or even violate some of the rules of this world and science in-universe cannot sufficiently explain why these things happen) then is it still fantasy/urban fantasy/contemporary fantasy/able to be discussed in this section of the board?

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I think it can still be urban fantasy, but depending on what your 'fantastical elements' are, maybe it's more magical realism (like Midnight's Children by Salman Rushie)? It's hard to say without actual examples. Either way, I'm sure it's still an appropriate conversation for at least the fantasy board, and probably the Urban Fantasy sub-board as well, since most people on the Fantasy board seem to favor discussing high fantasy.

Check out Carolyn Crane's books. They are shelved as urban fantasy, with nary a vampire or werewolf or fae (or whatever) in sight.

Urban fantasy just means you have elements of fantasy set in a modern environment--usually a city.

blacbird said:

What defines "Urban Fantasy"? What are the the unifying characteristics?

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I did a guest blog on PW's Genreville site a few years back. It doesn't really annswer the question, but it's my take on how UF is to fantasy as noir is to mysteries.

Lots of people disagree, of course.

http://blogs.publishersweekly.com/blogs/genreville/?p=81

I haven't done much thinking about subgenre classifications until fairly recently, but - is Alice Hoffman's Practical Magic urban fantasy? If not, what is it? What about The Probable Future? She usually gets pegged with "magical realism," but those two books seem like literary urban fantasy or literary paranormal romance to me.

The Bloodhound Files series by DD Barant is technically Urban Factasy (not much romance in it). The book doesn't take place on our earth. Rather the main female character is moved from our earth (exactly as we know it) to an alternate one where humans only make up 1 percent of the population (vampires, werewolves, and golems the rest). She has to deal with being part of a dying race after arriving. It has some of the basic similarities as our planet as far as geography and modern conveniences go, but their history diverged from ours at some point in the past.

That series is kind of tricky, but it meets most of the requirements for UF.

Urban Fantasy takes place in a urban area, town, village, city, or other urbanized areas. The world does not matter so much as long as it is recognized as an urban area. The story generally does not stray from the urban setting...