Nudge etiquette?

VanessaNorth · Apr 23, 2012

I have had a submission out (unagented) to a publisher for 7 weeks now. When I first subbed, their submission guidelines said approx. 1 month for a response. The auto-reply said I would hear back in 3-4 weeks.

Since then, the submission guidelines went to 4-6 weeks, then 6-8 weeks.

Clearly, they are swamped with submissions, which is awesome! Good for them. But now I am wondering--is my submission missing in action, or just not-gotten-to-yet? I don't want to be nuisance, but I hate loose ends.

I'm committed to waiting another week to hear back from them, since their guidelines say 6-8 weeks now (regardless of what they said when I subbed).

At what point past that deadline is it appropriate to send a gentle nudge? Or, should I have already since they are 3-4 weeks past the timeframe they gave me when I intially subbed?

Your advice welcome.

Cliffhanger · Apr 23, 2012

VanessaNorth said:
I have had a submission out (unagented) to a publisher for 7 weeks now. When I first subbed, their submission guidelines said approx. 1 month for a response. The auto-reply said I would hear back in 3-4 weeks.

Since then, the submission guidelines went to 4-6 weeks, then 6-8 weeks.

Clearly, they are swamped with submissions, which is awesome! Good for them. But now I am wondering--is my submission missing in action, or just not-gotten-to-yet? I don't want to be nuisance, but I hate loose ends.

I'm committed to waiting another week to hear back from them, since their guidelines say 6-8 weeks now (regardless of what they said when I subbed).

At what point past that deadline is it appropriate to send a gentle nudge? Or, should I have already since they are 3-4 weeks past the timeframe they gave me when I intially subbed?

Your advice welcome.

Considering they're clearly swamped, and you recognize that, just give them time to get back to you. Waiting for their response will only lead to madness, both yours as you refresh your email constantly and theirs as you bug them for a reply. Wait twice as long as their guildelines suggest they will take (yes, the pushed back version), then ask after your submission.

And always, always be polite about it. A quick "just wanted to make sure you received my submission titled X" will go a lot farther than being grumpy.

VanessaNorth · Apr 24, 2012

Cliffhanger said:
Considering they're clearly swamped, and you recognize that, just give them time to get back to you. Waiting for their response will only lead to madness, both yours as you refresh your email constantly and theirs as you bug them for a reply. Wait twice as long as their guildelines suggest they will take (yes, the pushed back version), then ask after your submission.

And always, always be polite about it. A quick "just wanted to make sure you received my submission titled X" will go a lot farther than being grumpy.

Thanks Cliff

No worries, I'm never grumpy. (well...maybe before coffee, but I'd never attempt to write an email before coffee)

konstruksjon · Apr 24, 2012

Agree with Cliffhanger. Doing a friendly touch-base with them also tells them that your work is still available for representation. The last thing they'd want is to get to your work, LOVE it, then find out you've been snatched up by someone else

folkchick · Apr 29, 2012

Just to make you feel better, I queried a publisher with a novel early March and received a note the next day saying how excited they were: "Construction workers? Small towns? People running around half-naked? We love it! Send forty pages and we'll get back to you in a few weeks." It's almost May and no word yet. I want to nudge so bad, but also want to be patient. They just had a big release and are probably busy with that. Also something to consider is the fact that they (your prospective publisher) might be deliberating your book with other staff members. So, not entirely a bad thing, this wait. Best of luck, though. I hope you receive good news in good time.

VanessaNorth · Apr 29, 2012

thanks folk chic

love your screen name, btw. (I usually edit my work to a mix of folk music)

I definitely don't mind waiting, I'm just a little um, uptight about my submission spreadsheets and response times. HA! So little of the process is within my control once the books go out on sub, so I compensate by keeping a detailed color-coded spreadsheet.

excuse me while I go die of a geek infection.

Cliffhanger · Apr 30, 2012

The process form my experience is this. The ms. comes in the door and one to three editors / slush readers look over the submitted section. If it's liked by at least two, some cases all three, then it's passed up the chain to a proper acquisitions editor. If they like it, other editors read it and it's brought before the pub board. If the pub board agrees then you're tentatively in. Then they start with the calls and editing etc.

Keep in mind reading the section could be glimpses on the train, just before bed, or alongside a stack that's taller than the reader. You never know what can happen or when it will happen, just trust in your writing and get on with the next project.

VanessaNorth · May 1, 2012

Thanks Cliff!

I will keep sitting on my hands and trying to placate my inner geek with something other than spreadsheets. HA! here geeky V, wouldn't you like to look at Dr Who gifs on tumblr? he's way more fun than spreadsheets...

BubbleCow · May 14, 2012

My advice is this - YOU are helping them and they need your book to make money. You need to approach the whole process from a position of power. Therefore, my tactic has always been to give the agent a suitable time to reply (month) and then start pushing. If they want your book, they will not reject it just because you put a bit of pressure on them. I would also approach multiple agents at once and then as soon as one agent shows a glimmer of interest use this to put a fire up the other agents. Nothing speeds up an agent like the prospect of losing you to a competitor!

HoneyBadger · May 14, 2012

BubbleCow said:
My advice is this - YOU are helping them and they need your book to make money. You need to approach the whole process from a position of power. Therefore, my tactic has always been to give the agent a suitable time to reply (month) and then start pushing. If they want your book, they will not reject it just because you put a bit of pressure on them. I would also approach multiple agents at once and then as soon as one agent shows a glimmer of interest use this to put a fire up the other agents. Nothing speeds up an agent like the prospect of losing you to a competitor!

This attitude is likely to come through in your queries and nudges, and is very unlikely to garner you any positive attention.

Author A has a great MS and is patient, knows how slowly the industry moves, and is never anything less than professional.

Author B has a great MS, nudges, insists that they're doing agents/editors a favor, and is happy to manipulate others.

Which author do you think will get the best results?

BubbleCow · May 18, 2012

The long and short is that books are accepted or rejected on three criteria:

1. The writing is good enough.
2. The agent/publisher feel the book has a large enough readership to make enough profit to make it all worth while.
3. The book fits into the publisher's plans.

You need to tick all three boxes. In fact, I would say ticking boxes 2 and 3 are more important than 1.

If a writer ticks all three boxes they will get published no mater what. It is incorrect to think that being a bit 'pushy' will win or lose you a book deal.

My experience (I have an agent and 20+ books in print) is that finding an agent is very much about being in the right place at the right time. A well timed nudge can go a long way.

Yet, this said, I understand HoneyBadger's thinking. Yet, you must not come into the process from a place of fear. You have invested a year of your life into your book, you owe it to yourself to be bold and fearless.

mccardey · May 18, 2012

BubbleCow said:
The long and short is that books are accepted or rejected on three criteria:

1. The writing is good enough.
2. The agent/publisher feel the book has a large enough readership to make enough profit to make it all worth while.
3. The book fits into the publisher's plans.

You need to tick all three boxes. In fact, I would say ticking boxes 2 and 3 are more important than 1.

If a writer ticks all three boxes they will get published no mater what. It is incorrect to think that being a bit 'pushy' with win or lose you a book deal.

Oh, I think there's a bit more to it than that. You're forgetting the "hands-on" aspects of publishing. If a writer seems like hard graft - especially a new, unproven writer - a publisher will whack that info into the balance too. All else being equal, why would they choose to spend time on someone who's likely to be more difficult to deal with?

(And the problem is that all else very often is equal.)

HoneyBadger · May 18, 2012

One can be bold and fearless in one's head and professional and patient on paper.

It's like, internally, it's awesome to not care what other people think of you, but once you start *acting* like you don't care what others think, you're going to start turning people off which accomplishes only one thing: You not getting what you want.

VanessaNorth · May 18, 2012

I think this is a great conversation, because etiquette embraces many things. I personally, did not know the etiquette for this situation, so I asked and it's really nice for me to see the range of opinions on the matter. In the end, I go with my gut and what feels "right" and "comfortable" and fits with "how I would want to be treated in their position."

No one who has ever met me would call me a pushover, but I also doubt they would ever call me pushy. There are ways to be direct and efficient without making an ass of myself.

In the case of this example, it ended up being a moot point, as the book is being acquired by another publisher.

I sent a very politely worded "Please withdraw my manuscript from consideration" letter, and they got back to me right away with a note saying congratulations and that they hope to work with me someday. Which was VERY nice of them and made me feel good, but probably was unnecessary.

No bridges burned, no hard feelings anywhere around.

BubbleCow · May 21, 2012

wow - congrats Vanessa.

To be honest, I also found the range of replies very interesting. It is a real bug bear of mine that many writers hold agents and publishers up on a very high pedestal. The point I think I made rather badly was that the power is in the hands of the writer, NOT the agent/publisher. An apologetic writer is just as bad as a pushy writer. The key is to strike the balance. We work with agents and publishers on a daily basis and have the luxury of seeing it from both sides.

One thing I would like to add is that as the world of self-publishing grows, writers should be increasingly asking agents and publishers, 'What can you offer me?'

MKrys · May 21, 2012

Congrats, Vanessa!

VanessaNorth · May 21, 2012

bubble, I agree that one should not be apologetic. But, if I'm querying an agent or a publisher, it's because I've done my research and I KNOW what they can do for me. I don't want special treatment: I query a publishing house or an agent because I think they would suit my book just the way they are.

and thanks!

Smiley0501 · May 21, 2012

Congrats, Vanessa

folkchick · May 21, 2012

I nudged just now. I do feel like early March to late May is a long time, especially considering it was only supposed to be a couple of weeks. If they don't like my book, then I need to know in order send it out somewhere else. Plus, I'm in a bad mood this week.

folkchick · Jun 22, 2012

Received a nice rejection. Not sure why I was being so impatient before. But anyway, here's what they said:

Thank you so much for letting us read an excerpt from WOODSOCKET '79. It was undoubtedly an intriguing beginning with a palpable sense of urgency.The innter monologues of Loretta and Gerald held the kind of compelling, quiet desperation seen in Dorothy Allison's Bastard Out of Carolina. But as we saw it, much of the story's plodding, understated tone left us restless at times. Though we found your characters remarkable, we don't think your novel a perfect fit for . . . But with your eye for poignant language and the story's wonderful air of mystery, we’re confident this novel will find its audience with another publisher.
We hope you continue to work on this piece, as it has both energy and drive. Thanks again for submitting and bringing our attention to your work. It was truly a pleasure to gain access to the inner workings of such compelling characters.
Best wishes . . .

One of the nicest rejections I've ever received. It still stings, but with a glimmer of hope.

issac1 · Jun 22, 2012

I'm sorry that didn't work out for you, Folkchick. I sent a full ms to a publisher in January. I honestly don't expect a reply back until the end of July because I know from experience that this company is really slow. In May I nudged them to please keep the ms under consideration, but I informed them that I intended to query other publishers at this time. I think you did the right thing, but I have even gotten a request for full after seven months. Still, I try to look at writing as a business, and you can't grant an unlimited exclusive and do right by your business. Stay strong and query on.

folkchick · Jun 22, 2012

Thank you, isaac. Kind words indeed!

folkchick · Jun 23, 2012

Okay. I just found out that one of my stories (from the book) has been accepted at Midwest Literary, and that makes everything much, much better. I cried my eyes out when I saw the email.

Adding- now I'm reading bad things on the internet about this publication, so maybe I shouldn't be celebrating after all. Things are going downhill fast. I thought everything was legit.

folkchick · Jun 24, 2012

So now an update. I wrote the magazine asking to withdraw my submission, and received an email back saying it had been withdrawn. Sorry to have to do that, but in the end I think it was best for me to take the safe route.

VanessaNorth · Jun 25, 2012

sorry Joni. I think sometimes it's best to go with your gut. I hope your book finds a home soon.

Nudge etiquette?

Purple hair, not prose.

Purple hair, not prose.

Not a new kid

Purple hair, not prose.

Purple hair, not prose.

terribly loud, emotionally distant

terribly loud, emotionally distant

Purple hair, not prose.

Quietly obsessing

Purple hair, not prose.

Lurker, now activated. :-)

Not a new kid

Not a new kid

Storyteller

Not a new kid

Not a new kid

Not a new kid

Purple hair, not prose.