Hi, I know there's probably not any gay sex in YA, but can there at least be gay "suggestive themes" (I love that when they used to put that on video game ratings. It always made me wonder what themes are they suggesting, lol)? Anyway, gay sex, no gay sex, gay suggestive themes? What is your opinion, or is this just a little too cool for school?
Gay suggestive themes
- Thread starter gambit924
- Start date
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2009
- Messages
- 4,470
- Reaction score
- 659
There is absolutely no reason not to include gay "suggestive" themes or indeed gay sex in YA, and I guarantee you that YA books already exist with both.
Spiffy. I just can't go anything more obscene than "we made love", right? Lol personally I think it is good for children to read books that bring into focus other people's sexual orientation. Every teenager probably knows at least one person who is gay, openly or otherwise.
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2009
- Messages
- 4,470
- Reaction score
- 659
Wrong. You can go as graphic or as subtle as you want. I second the suggestion to read more YA. This is a mindset that we see ALL the time from people who aren't familiar with YA fiction--that there are certain rules and regulations about what can or can't be done. Almost none of them are true.
When you say "children" that makes me think Middle Grade, but that's a whole 'nother ball game.
Yeah I know. For some reason, I forget at times that Teens and young adults are indeed more adult than I may see them or as they might appear.
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2007
- Messages
- 328
- Reaction score
- 56
Hey, wow! Can I be the first to say that there probably is? Well, ok. I don't know that for certain, but YA covers a very broad range of sexualities and pretty much nothing is "too cool for school" as you say. So, my answer is I'm almost 100% certain that there is gay sex in YA. And by that, gay suggestive themes are A-OK. In fact, we could do with a little more representation on the subjects at hand, I think.
It's just I haven't the knowledge of some people here. I'm sure someone will be around to help us shortly, though.
Edit: Blah my proof reading. I was gonna be the first to comment.
It's just I haven't the knowledge of some people here. I'm sure someone will be around to help us shortly, though.
Edit: Blah my proof reading. I was gonna be the first to comment.
I'm thinking the worst thing to do is to try and make teens fell like they're being hand held into nothing. If I lead them into the anticipation of sex, are they gonna be pissed if I just say something to the effect of "we made love"? Does that make them feel like they're being cheated.
Becca C.
Registered
I write gay YA and my sex scenes skew towards the more graphic side of things. Not quite erotica levels of description, but there's no fade to black.
There's definitely an audience for it (me
)
There's definitely an audience for it (me
)
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2007
- Messages
- 328
- Reaction score
- 56
Just my opinion, but no. I wouldn't feel cheated at all with the "fade to black" thing. Given that's what your writing did. Now, if you were writing a hot, steamy romance and then all of a sudden we fade to black and one of the characters is lighting a cigarette and saying how that was awesome, I'd be a little annoyed. Because it wasn't what I expected.
Conversely, if you spared that type of information and just let the scenes fade to black throughout your story, a hot, steamy sex scene described vividly would seem excruciatingly out of place.
I think it's up to the writer to show the reader kind of what to expect. If you did it right, very few people would be upset fading to black. And I say very few because there's always gonna be haters, no matter what
Right. Thanks everybody! Now that I know a little bit more, I can start writing. The idea has been stewing for too long and now I need to take it off the burner. Hopefully I'll finish this one. I'm a serial non-finisher due to lack of time and lack of focus (damn ADD) but you've given me a lot to think about. Perhaps I feel like I've been given permission. Anyway I'll see if I can make it happen. Cheers!
One more thing before you all leave me. How about in a show, like an anime show or something? I wouldn't go graphic sex, but would gay characters be out of place in something like that? Maybe I should ask in the film forum, but I just wanted to run it by you guys. I hope I haven't lost all of you.
Gay characters are HUGE in anime. It's harder to find an anime without a gay character.
Of course, you also have to be in Japan for it to be anime, really...
Of course, you also have to be in Japan for it to be anime, really...
Not necessarily I don't think. There are some companies from the US who produce it. Lol, just gotta weed them out...Or find someone in Japan who's willing to produce it. No worries, right?
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2009
- Messages
- 4,470
- Reaction score
- 659
Oh, they're out there. It's just that the authentic (meaning Actually Made In Japan) ones get edited down to within an inch of their lives, and mistranslated so that the gay gets buried in subtext and suggestion.
There are US-produced animated shows and movies that are designed to resemble anime-style, but it's not Actually Made In Japan, it's a different thing.
There are US-produced animated shows and movies that are designed to resemble anime-style, but it's not Actually Made In Japan, it's a different thing.
- Joined
- May 15, 2007
- Messages
- 177
- Reaction score
- 27
That's how things used to be, but the translations are much better these days. They don't get cut to bits anymore. If you try some of the recent translations I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
Anime is only from Japan. But that is not the only place where animation happens. Are you confusing the two?
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2011
- Messages
- 3,771
- Reaction score
- 630
- Age
- 32
- Location
- New York
- Website
- www.thebooklantern.com
You should read more YA. Try out David Levithan, Hannah Moskowitz, Ellen Wittlinger, Julie Ann Peters, etcetera. I have two gay sex scenes in one of my MS's and I've never gotten any flack from beta readers.
tbh, I don't care if you fade to black or not. I'm of the opinion that sex in any novel should build up to the BIG earth shattering scene! just after the midpoint. Unless it's important, I'd save the graphic details for then, and let the reader wait in anticipation. Some screenwriters call that sex at sixty. If you give me all the sexy details in the first half of the novel, there's nothing left for the second half. You've squeezed all the chemistry out of your couple, IMO, and they might as well be married with kids, because there's nothing left, sexual tension wise, for me to care about.
This is interesting. I'd never heard of it. And yet I always write exactly that way. Must be film influencing how I tell a story. I should really read more about screenwriting. Lots of stuff that crosses mediums.
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2011
- Messages
- 3,771
- Reaction score
- 630
- Age
- 32
- Location
- New York
- Website
- www.thebooklantern.com
Definitely. The structural elements of story progression are easier to learn in screenplay form because screenplays are shorter and more compact. But other than that, I plot screenplays the same way I plot novels. A lot of "pros" rant against the dangers of beat sheets, but they're useful if you know what you're doing. Most stories follow the same structural path because that's how we logically perceive a story should flow.
Even Nolan's films, with their disjointed scene progression, follow logical beat progressions. It's quite interesting when you start beating out YA novels that seem completely different, but under the surface, they're very similar.
Becca C.
Registered
I recently tried a beat sheet form from a website where you shoot in your word count, page count, and it tells you by what page should your character's introduction be solid, where the love interest should first appear, where the inciting incident should be, etc... and with very few exceptions, my own events happened within a couple pages of where they were "supposed" to be. I would hate to write a novel that rigidly (omg, kay, my love interest MUST appear on page 32 or I'll never get this thing published!!!1!), but as a revision tool it was very useful.
Kind of helps you gauge your storytelling instincts.
I think the "sex after sixty" thing totally makes sense.
I know that there's anime and there's animation. All I would want really is the Japanese stylization. I guess I just need to say an animated show or something. It is surprising how things that work for screenwriting can carry over to novel writing and comic book writing as well. All writing styles are connected. I find it easier to write screenplays than novels, but that doesn't mean I can't totally change the story format and have it be nearly the same. It's amazing really how things can transition so well.