YA Love Triangle: Female-Female-Male?

frankiebrown · Apr 20, 2012

It seems that, as mentioned in other topics, a love triangle is practically "mandatory" for a successful YA novel that features romance.

That being said, I am sick to death of the Twilight Jacob/Bella/Edward style love triangles... The FMC falls head over heels for the Edward character, then the Edward disappears/is presumed dead and FMC falls for the Jacob... then, surprise! The "Edward" is back!

So, my question is this: Would it be possible to write a love triangle that consists of another female interested in the FMC's male love interest, and not have the reader hate the guy? To make the triangle work, the male LI would have to at least be semi-interested in the Other Girl. I guess you could just flip the "Twilight" blueprint on its head, but I'm not sure I want to go there.

How would you write it?

rynthewin · Apr 20, 2012

I wouldn't hate the guy unless he was interested in a really unlikable character without good reasons.

EDIT: Okay, I probably should have explained more. To me, the whole "guys like b----" is such a cliche to me that I see so often. If he's supposed to be a good fit for your FMC then he should probably like someone who is comparable or better to the MC (unless you're writing an anti-heroine, and then my whole opinion is moot

)

Nicole River · Apr 20, 2012

For some reason, as I read your post I assumed you were wondering about a love triangle with a bisexual FMC hesitating between a guy and a girl.

Now that I wanna see!

But, more to the point. I guess it could be done, but the readers will end up hating one of the girls something fierce. And the shippers will hate your FMC.

I would definitely read something like that if I saw it, though.

frankiebrown · Apr 20, 2012

Nicole River said:
For some reason, as I read your post I assumed you were wondering about a love triangle with a bisexual FMC hesitating between a guy and a girl. Now that I wanna see!

I've considered that!
I wasn't sure if it would be too much for the YA market though.. The FMC has a female best friend and the FMC didn't know that the friend was a lesbian, the best friend falls for the FMC, the FMC has to confront her own sexuality and choose between the male LI and the female best friend...

Too much?

KateSmash · Apr 20, 2012

Not too much at all. I'd like to see the B in LGBT represented a little more in YA. Plus it'd be a mush more refreshing take on the love triangle dynamic than Archie trying to decide between Betty and Veronica for the umpteenth time.

Nicole River · Apr 20, 2012

Not too much at all, actually. Sounds like a damn good story.

PoppysInARow · Apr 20, 2012

It can be done, and I think it has a few times. The only thing is the F/M/F triangle is not as appealing to teenage girls (who make up the majority of the YA audience) just as the idea of a M/F/M triangle doesn't appeal to boys. Nobody wants to be in competition when it comes to matters of the heart.

As long as you make the other woman likeable, it should be no problem. It creates a greater conflict in the MC, which is always a plus.

But hell, we're bringing bisexuality into the mix? Hells yeah!

Do it, Frankie, it sounds like a great conflict. Bisexuality is really underrepresented in YA, but by no means is it "too much." It's a much more interesting hook than your MC competeing with another woman.

lolchemist · Apr 20, 2012

KateSmash said:
... take on the love triangle dynamic than Archie trying to decide between Betty and Veronica for the umpteenth time.

Haha! I was about to mention Betty and Veronica too! Also, that Taylor Swift song "You Belong With Me." I think there would definitely be a market for a book like this! There are no guarantees that readers wont love or hate your characters or choose one pairing over another, but it's all in the way you write it. And anyway, if readers are getting emotionally involved like that with your characters, you know you're doing something right!

lolchemist · Apr 20, 2012

frankiebrown said:
I've considered that!
I wasn't sure if it would be too much for the YA market though.. The FMC has a female best friend and the FMC didn't know that the friend was a lesbian, the best friend falls for the FMC, the FMC has to confront her own sexuality and choose between the male LI and the female best friend...

Too much?

Not at all! In fact, since the MC is considering other options with her female friend, the male character will be less resented by readers for considering other options with the MC's rival. "What's good for the goose is good for the gander" and all that...

frankiebrown · Apr 20, 2012

Thanks for the input, ya'll! I think that the idea of a bisexual love triangle is definitely something that I want to pursue in a story that I backburned. I may be taking that story off of the backburner now :e2fish:

.

Snowybunny12 · Apr 20, 2012

frankiebrown said:
I've considered that!
I wasn't sure if it would be too much for the YA market though.. The FMC has a female best friend and the FMC didn't know that the friend was a lesbian, the best friend falls for the FMC, the FMC has to confront her own sexuality and choose between the male LI and the female best friend...

Too much?

I thought that's what you were talking about when I saw the topic title. Please do that!!! I really want to see that and I'm so tired of the cliché triangle. PLEASE DO THAT

eyeblink · Apr 20, 2012

If Partings and Greetings ever sees the light of day, it is the story of a FFM love triangle - one of them is bi, one gay and one (the male) is straight.

missesdash · Apr 20, 2012

I think a lot of bisexual MC's end up in a love triangle. It's the easiest way to display their sexuality. It's more effective than having a boyfriend and occasionally checking out girls.

The MC of my novel on sub is bisexual and having trouble choosing between her boyfriend and a girl. It's an interesting dynamic, I think.

thebloodfiend · Apr 20, 2012

I like bi love-triangles as long as a) neither the girl or boy on either leg of the triangle is demonized to the point of idiotball syndrome for your MC, or b) the bi character in question isn't portrayed as sex-crazy or simply gay and confused and discovers that bisexuality doesn't really exist. The gay male character who experiments with girls and throws them aside once they realize they're gay without an apology really pisses me off. Especially if the girl is seen as the douche in the situation.

In an MS of mine, the MC is in a relationship with a girl, but he used to hook-up with his best friend (who claims to be bi so he doesn't hurt his on-again-off-again GF who's in serious denial about her status as a beard, but he's really gay). The MC is rather asexual, but he's biromantic? I guess. His relationship with the best friend is very important to the climax.

What annoys me about love triangles is when they're only there because people think YA novels must have them. I only like them when they're relevant to the plot, not as an after thought because Suzy needed two hot guys to pine after her instead of just one while she's trying to kick demon/robot/etc-ass.

Becca C. · Apr 20, 2012

I often feel really uncomfortable reading bi love triangles because I always feel that, if they choose the person of the opposite sex, the message of the book is really heterocentric and all like "straight is best!" This was mentioned in a thread a while back but yeah. I don't like it. There have got to be stories that don't have this tone, or maybe it's just me.

And it's not that I don't like/don't believe in bisexuality because I'm bi myself

frankiebrown · Apr 20, 2012

Becca C. said:
I often feel really uncomfortable reading bi love triangles because I always feel that, if they choose the person of the opposite sex, the message of the book is really heterocentric and all like "straight is best!"

I'm concerned about this, too. I do think that my FMC will end up with the MLI, but I think I can represent her in a way that brings a lot sympathy for the FLI, and doesn't reflect her bisexuality in a negative way.

lolchemist · Apr 20, 2012

Becca C. said:
I often feel really uncomfortable reading bi love triangles because I always feel that, if they choose the person of the opposite sex, the message of the book is really heterocentric and all like "straight is best!" This was mentioned in a thread a while back but yeah. I don't like it. There have got to be stories that don't have this tone, or maybe it's just me.

Yes! Me too! I almost feel like if I did a story like this, I'd have to have the same-sex couple 'win' at the end of the story because I'd feel really bad if anyone read the book and felt...I can't really think of the right word... like a mixture of disappointment, hurt, feeling insulted, feeling like you're always second class and not good enough... And I hate the notion that the MC was 'just experimenting' (even though people DO do that in real life) it can be so hurtful to the gay partner to be like 'Oh, I just experimented with you but I realized I'm not gay now, sorry!' I mean wow, that is so COLD. And 'experiment?' They are human beings not science class lab projects!

Anyway, let me stop ranting.

Becca C. · Apr 20, 2012

lolchemist said:
Yes! Me too! I almost feel like if I did a story like this, I'd have to have the same-sex couple 'win' at the end of the story because I'd feel really bad if anyone read the book and felt...I can't really think of the right word... like a mixture of disappointment, hurt, feeling insulted, feeling like you're always second class and not good enough... And I hate the notion that the MC was 'just experimenting' (even though people DO do that in real life) it can be so hurtful to the gay partner to be like 'Oh, I just experimented with you but I realized I'm not gay now, sorry!' I mean wow, that is so COLD. And 'experiment?' They are human beings not science class lab projects!

Anyway, let me stop ranting.

That's exactly what I mean. You totally get it

I felt that disappointment when I read My Heartbeat by Garret Freymann-Weyr. Spoiler in white: the girl MC ends up crushing on her brother's boyfriend -- and at the end, he picks her over his boyfriend. I felt crushed.

AmyJay · Apr 20, 2012

The thing is, it is realistic to have a bi character sometimes end up with someone from the opposite sex. Never having that could feed into the idea that if you're bi and dating someone of the opposite sex, then you're not ~really~ bi. I hate that if I'm dating someone of the opposite sex everyone assumes I must be straight, so it would be nice to see a bi character who's both confident in their sexuality and in a relationship with someone of the opposite sex. If someone sees that relationship and thinks it means that the character was really heterosexual all along or whatever, then it's their problem, not the story's. (As long as the story itself doesn't portray it that way, I mean.) You could have a bi character be in an opposite-sex relationship without it invalidating their feelings for the same-sex partner. Just like having them end up with a same-sex partner doesn't mean they're gay.

Really, some people are going to misinterpret a bi character no matter what you do, so you should do what's best for the story. (And still be thoughtful about it and mindful of stereotypes, of course.)

Mandiloo322 · Apr 20, 2012

Whether you choose bi or two girls going after the guy, DO IT! I would also like to see the traditional triangle shaken up!

Rhoda Nightingale · Apr 20, 2012

Personally I'd like to see NOT a triangle--I loathe them, and have since I was actually in the target age demographic for YA.

However, I'd also like to chime in for the bisexual angle on this one. Sounds like a fantastic idea, if done right. Just make sure you understand the difference between "bisexual" and "polyamorous." As a bi female, that is my number one peeve.

KateSmash · Apr 20, 2012

missesdash said:
I think a lot of bisexual MC's end up in a love triangle. It's the easiest way to display their sexuality. It's more effective than having a boyfriend and occasionally checking out girls.

Tangential to the love triangle thing - but there are other ways to establish a bisexual character. Current WIP starts with the MC on a disastrous date with another girl, who makes mention of prior partners of both sex.

And double ditto plus on bisexual != polyamorous. Although ... I'd probably worship a writer forever if they managed to pull off a poly relationship in YA. That would really shake up the love triangle trope.

Rhoda Nightingale · Apr 20, 2012

^I was hoping the Casts were heading that way with the House of Night books, but then it just turned into a soap-opera-like mess. Had potential, though.

missesdash · Apr 20, 2012

KateSmash said:
Tangential to the love triangle thing - but there are other ways to establish a bisexual character. Current WIP starts with the MC on a disastrous date with another girl, who makes mention of prior partners of both sex.

And double ditto plus on bisexual != polyamorous. Although ... I'd probably worship a writer forever if they managed to pull off a poly relationship in YA. That would really shake up the love triangle trope.

Okay fine, maybe I just want an excuse to write two sex scenes

:e2brows:

The_Ink_Goddess · Apr 21, 2012

Becca C. said:
I often feel really uncomfortable reading bi love triangles because I always feel that, if they choose the person of the opposite sex, the message of the book is really heterocentric and all like "straight is best!" This was mentioned in a thread a while back but yeah. I don't like it. There have got to be stories that don't have this tone, or maybe it's just me.

And it's not that I don't like/don't believe in bisexuality because I'm bi myself

When I first read this heading, the first thing that came to mind was a love triangle with someone of the same sex and opposite sex. My first reaction was yes, do it! I'm so intrigued by it and I think it's a fascinating and complex dynamic.

But the problem with the 'choosing' element of the work is that, if you don't do it right, it can feel a lot like you're one of those people who say, BI DOESN'T EXIST! YOU'RE EITHER GAY OR STRAIGHT! and, like Becca, I also feel that choosing the 'straight' side gives a heterocentric Message. Obviously it's not true - if your bi character just plain prefers the person of the opposite sex, then why shouldn't they go for them? It's just both elements are things I would be hypersensitive to if I was reading the novel.

YA Love Triangle: Female-Female-Male?

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