Ditching romance in YA?

lyrwriter · Apr 12, 2012

Okay, I apologize if a thread like this already exists, but I want to ask:

Is anyone else here writing a YA novel sans romance? General opinions/thoughts on doing so? And does anyone think that a novel without romance is handicapped in the YA market?

Honestly, as a reader, I've never been particularly drawn to a lot of the romance one sees in fiction. It's not that I dislike all books with romantic plots/subplots---far from it---but I often have this general feeling of "meh" about the importance of romance because I myself am not a romantic person. This feeling seems to bleed over into my own writing. I'm just not terribly keen to set my teenage MCs up to fall in love. That's not to say they don't have crushes from time to time. But the only character I've written into an actual romance was an adult (his teenage co-protagonist was decidedly single).

Anyhow, just wondering whether I'm the only one...

Zoombie · Apr 12, 2012

I'm not writing a novel without romance, because most or all of my stories have romance being a major part of what is going on. For example, my novel Debris Dreams, the main emotional core of the book is the romance between the two main characters.

HOWEVER!

I am not so vain (well, only mostly not so vain) nor so stupid to think that every novel needs to be like mine. If your novel does not need the emotional "vibe" of romance, then do not include romance! I mean, there are so many different ways to include emotion in your novel.

Friendship
Hatred
Enmity
Parenthood/Childhood bonds
The bonds of comradeship

And so on.

triceretops · Apr 12, 2012

I have romance in all my YA books, but it is the SWEET variety. I haven't the chops or desire to get into anything more passionate and sweaty, and that's only because I would fail miserably at doing so.

Polenth · Apr 12, 2012

I'm not big on romance. I prefer friend and family relationships for the most part. Where there is romance, it's low key and very much a small subplot.

Romances do get more market space, but I don't think you should shoehorn in a romance for that reason. If you write something you hate, it'll show. It's better to do no/low romance well than heavy romance badly.

Toothpaste · Apr 12, 2012

You aren't the only one. That isn't to say I don't love a good romance, but the kind of romance I like isn't the current in vogue romance.

I think it is totally possible to write a YA book without romance, but it still might be a tough sell. When I say that, I mean a YA without ANY romance whatsoever, not even a mention of someone being attracted to someone else.

But I think it is possible to sell a YA where romance isn't the central story point - I know it because I did it. You can do a romantic subplot in YA and not have it be the most important story element.

In the end, though, as always, you want to write the book you are most passionate about. Of course.

But no, you are definitely not alone.

CheshireGrin · Apr 12, 2012

With my YA series, neither one of them in a romance genre, I have the sweet romance, the epic first kiss, but it is secondary to the main focus of the book. I let it build for a few books, so not only is the reader anticipating the action of what happens next, but also they are waiting for that first kiss...that first step, to happen.

JBuck · Apr 12, 2012

It's not technically necessary to include romance, even as a sub-plot. But remember that it is YA and most teens have raging hormones and do like at least a touch of romance.
I have romance in all of mine, only because I was one of those teens who fell in love at least twice a day, lol.
Again, if you look at HP, it's not a romance by any means, but there are lots of relationships and some of them are romantic, yet it doesn't ruin the story or intrude in any way at all.

Fuchsia Groan · Apr 12, 2012

I was asked to add a romance between the two central characters to one book, and I did, but it remains marginal and low-key. Maybe too much so for editors, though no one has mentioned that as a reason for rejection.

My second book starts with the heroine all but making out with a guy, yet it doesn't get remotely "romantic" till the end. Wonder how that will go over!

I'm a fan of the "two people thrown together who think they hate each other but come to respect and love each other" type of romance. I can't do the Twilight kind, and it's no use trying.

Ellielle · Apr 12, 2012

I'm glad to see this thread, because I've been thinking about this quite a bit myself lately.

My issue with romance in books comes in when it feels forced in there. Like, I enjoy romance when it feels integrated into the story (even if it's just a subplot). But a lot of the romance I read in YA feels to me like "here's the obligatory love interest!", "here's the obligatory make-out scene!", and not always, but still more than I'd like, "here's the obligatory love triangle!". And that sort of romance, I don't like. (then, of course, there's the borderline abusive romance that has infused some recent YA--but that's a whole different problem)

My WIP is sort of lacking in romance, too (and actually, almost all of my earlier crap was too). The main character does have crushy feelings for a guy, but they definitely don’t get together by the end. It wouldn’t be true to the girl’s character. She’s not particularly emotionally aware/is incredibly stubborn and determined to hate the guy, and to have her be able to come to terms with her feelings by the end would be too abrupt a transformation. She does move down that path in the story as part of her character arc, but I feel it’s too big a leap to get her to a point where she’d be okay declaring “yes, I like this guy”. If I get to write the sequels that I have planned, she’ll keep growing emotionally, and she and the guy will get together in the last one. But if this ends up being a stand-alone, there’s no romance.

But I’ve been worrying about it being handicapped/not sellable as a result. Obviously, romance is huge in YA. Publishers are clearly going for it, based on the amount of romance subplots that exist in non-romance YA genres. Maybe I’m just reading the wrong books, but I can’t think of any YA that I read recently that didn’t have romance shoved in there somewhere (or, at least, like Toothpaste said, someone attracted to someone else). In my latest edits of my work, I’ve tried to up the emphasis on the girl’s attraction to the guy, and hope that’ll be enough.

And in my next WIP, I’m going for a main character who will be more receptive to romance and less stubborn…

missesdash · Apr 12, 2012

There was quite a lengthy thread on this. The general consensus seemed to be what Toothpaste said: you can write the book however you like, but completely omitting any romance will make a YA book a much harder sell.

Think about the most popular books, movies, songs, whatever (adult or otherwise). People like romance. In different varieties of course. There are tragic romances, completely fucked up and one-sided romance, and of course traditional lovey-dovey types. But there are also plenty of really interesting non-romantic relationships (if written well.) And if you don't think you'd write it well, it's definitely best to leave it out.

BUT, and this is from personal experience, not being romantic doesn't mean you wouldn't write romance well. I really really surprised myself with the intensity of the relationships I write because I'm the least romantic person I know. I don't read romance and don't really enjoy romantic movies. So yeah, if you can shed the whole "this feels silly" thing for a bit and just play around with the interpersonal relationships, you might surprise yourself. Every relationship is different, they don't all require swooning, hand holding and xoxoxox's. So definitely ask yourself if it's the romantic relationships you dislike or just the conventions/tropes/cliches of most romances.

lyrwriter · Apr 12, 2012

Polenth said:
I'm not big on romance. I prefer friend and family relationships for the most part. Where there is romance, it's low key and very much a small subplot.

THIS. This is me! This is what I mean when I say that I just don't care about romance that much---I'm much more interested/invested in other types of close relationships. For example, I have a hard time caring when a character's hot love interest dies, but if a parent or sibling or best friend goes...oh God. Waterworks all over the place. And like I said, my characters do have crushes. My current MC (a sixteen-year-old boy) has an incredibly awkward and embarrassing "Stacy's Mom"-style crush on his BFF's mother. But he's also painfully aware of the fact that it's not going to go anywhere, and the crush mostly serves to offer angst for him and some humor for the reader. So yeah, no actual romance will occur there...ugh. I get squicked out just thinking about it.

Polenth said:
Romances do get more market space, but I don't think you should shoehorn in a romance for that reason. If you write something you hate, it'll show. It's better to do no/low romance well than heavy romance badly.

I've been thinking about this because a few months ago, I pitched the aforementioned novel to an agent at a conference, and he commented on the fact that (due to the nature of the story's events) there was no room for a romance between the MC and his female BFF. He didn't specifically say this was a bad thing, but he did kind of raise his eyebrows and look a bit dubious. But I'm definitely not going to make them fall in love, because in part, I intentionally wrote these characters to break the YA fiction trope that "if you have two teenage characters of approximately the same age and opposite genders, at least one will be attracted to the other". For once, I really wanted a guy and a girl who were just friends. JUST. FRIENDS.

(Sorry for the rant. Anyhow. Thanks for letting me know I'm not the only one who feels lukewarm about romance.

)

Chazemataz · Apr 12, 2012

Fuchsia Groan said:
I was asked to add a romance between the two central characters to one book, and I did, but it remains marginal and low-key. Maybe too much so for editors, though no one has mentioned that as a reason for rejection.

My second book starts with the heroine all but making out with a guy, yet it doesn't get remotely "romantic" till the end. Wonder how that will go over!

I'm a fan of the "two people thrown together who think they hate each other but come to respect and love each other" type of romance. I can't do the Twilight kind, and it's no use trying.

Ugh, stuff like this makes me nervous about my plans to begin querying in a few months since I have a non-romantically-involved male-female duo as the MCs. I grew up with a female best friend and I wanted my WIP to reflect how important our friendship was and still is to me.

It's a horror and the focus is on that. I just wonder if I would have the guts to turn down an offer from an editor who said "add romance and we'll buy it" or something :/

I hate to say it, but I think some agents are far too close-minded. I understand that they are businesspeople first and foremost, and that their job could be on the line if a certain work doesn't sell, but every work does not have to have a cliched naive Cover Dress girl who is mysteriously attracted to a cliched dark guy, dammit -_-

Becca C. · Apr 12, 2012

I would way rather read a book with meaty, complex family and friend relationships than one with an obligatory, lukewarm love interest.

I'm not a romantic person in real life at all (20-years-old and never had a boyfriend, lol) but I looooove writing romance. M/M romance is my favourite thing to write, ever.

bickazer · Apr 12, 2012

I'm not sure how I should approach this, because it's not that I don't like romance; I do! I'm not romantic in real life, but I always like the media I consume to have at least a romantic subplot.

At the same time, the type of romance I like doesn't fit in the stereotypical YA mold at all (partly because a lot of is M/M, cough). So I do include strong romantic elements in all of my novels (one of my current projects could very well be classified as paranormal romance...), but they don't bear much resemblance to the brooding bad boy/wet rag of a girl archetype. Well, at least I hope they don't, since it's not like I read much in the way of typical YA romance anyway. For one, in the aforementioned paranormal project, I'm dead-set on it ending in a polyamorous relationship.

lyrwriter · Apr 12, 2012

missesdash said:
There was quite a lengthy thread on this. The general consensus seemed to be what Toothpaste said: you can write the book however you like, but completely omitting any romance will make a YA book a much harder sell.

Think about the most popular books, movies, songs, whatever (adult or otherwise). People like romance. In different varieties of course. There are tragic romances, completely fucked up and one-sided romance, and of course traditional lovey-dovey types. But there are also plenty of really interesting non-romantic relationships (if written well.) And if you don't think you'd write it well, it's definitely best to leave it out.

You're absolutely right about romance being a big deal in art in general---that's something I think about a lot, actually.

missesdash said:
BUT, and this is from personal experience, not being romantic doesn't mean you wouldn't write romance well. I really really surprised myself with the intensity of the relationships I write because I'm the least romantic person I know. I don't read romance and don't really enjoy romantic movies. So yeah, if you can shed the whole "this feels silly" thing for a bit and just play around with the interpersonal relationships, you might surprise yourself. Every relationship is different, they don't all require swooning, hand holding and xoxoxox's. So definitely ask yourself if it's the romantic relationships you dislike or just the conventions/tropes/cliches of most romances.

Well, I'd say it's not that I'm concerned about not being able to write romance. As I said, I did once write an adult MC into a romantic relationship, and it was sweet and kind of fun to write. But on the whole, I'm just not all that interested in romantic relationships between characters. It's not that I won't write them if the story requires them (as it did in the instance of the aforementioned adult)---I just don't make an effort to put them in, and they don't seem to crop up organically all that often. :Shrug:

Anyhow, I've been pondering this because I wrote the two MCs (guy-girl best friends) in my current novel with the intention of never making them an item. And when you combine the lack of romance with the utterly bizarre premise of the story, it makes me nervous about the novel's marketability (even though I've gotten really positive feedback from betas).

At any rate, thanks for all the responses, guys! I really appreciate the discussion and hearing your thoughts.

Nakhlasmoke · Apr 12, 2012

missesdash said:
.... So definitely ask yourself if it's the romantic relationships you dislike or just the conventions/tropes/cliches of most romances.

I like this so much I am quoting it and sticking it here to admire.

I tend to take a very jaded look at how relationships work, so my romances/love triangles are um...a tad more manipulative and twisted than the YA norm.

Some people love that, others hate it and feel cheated.

*shrug*

You cannot please every reader. The best you can do is please yourself and hope that you have a few readers out there with similar tastes.

Ashes Oh Ashes · Apr 12, 2012

I did not intend to put romance in my novel. But it happened anyway.

I think it's just fine, provided that it feels natural. Romance is big in YA because, well, Teens are always having romantic feelings for other human beings. It's the hormones thing. If you're just omitting it because you don't want it in, and the story calls for it, then you're pulling the classic bullet to the foot routine. Just my opinion though.

lolchemist · Apr 12, 2012

I'm writing an MG with no romance but the MC is a 11-12 year old girl and honestly I'm just like 'YEAH, She doesn't NEED a *booooyfwennnn* thank you!'

Everyone else above me already said really great things but I'd just like to add that I wouldn't mind reading about an asexual teen. But (not trying to stereotype or offend teens but) I think teens just WANT that romance subplot in there. It's like they EXPECT to see it and I feel like publishers would be super-wary of putting a book out there where readers will go "OMG this is the worst romance ever!"

The other thing is, since we as readers are so used to formula, whenever I'm reading a YA book, I'm already conditioned to expect a love interest. I think some readers might start clinging on to random male characters who are 'just friends' with the female MC and start going "This is a horrible romance! It feels like they don't even like each other! What's going on??" Which will only make you want to shriek "STOPITTT!!! THERE'S NO ROMANCE IN THE BOOK YOU GUYS!!!"

Becca C. · Apr 12, 2012

lolchemist said:
Everyone else above me already said really great things but I'd just like to add that I wouldn't mind reading about an asexual teen.=

My NaNo novel for 2011 has an asexual girl MC. It was very interesting to write. She has a very, very intense friendship with a boy that, if she were anything but asexual, would be a romance... that was a really fun relationship to write.

I might revise the crap out of that book soon. I think it could turn out okay.

meowzbark · Apr 13, 2012

Romance isn't the center of my plot, but it is a subplot. My MC lacks a romantic relationship but her best friend dates every single male friend the two girls have in common and this puts a heavy strain on their relationship, because MC becomes increasingly jealous of BF.

I'm not sure how feasible it is to write a YA book with zero romance. Even if the MC stays away from romance, the other characters will have relationships that are constantly evolving.

On a side note, thank God you're not writing another love triangle book.

Nakhlasmoke · Apr 13, 2012

Just popping in to to say while I'd love to read more about asexual characters, asexual does not automatically exclude romantic attachments. It's a very wide area.

Rhoda Nightingale · Apr 13, 2012

I would LOVE to see more YA without any romance, not even in a subplot, just for confirmation that yes, it can happen, and still be a good story.

As others have said, I understand that kind of thing is a hard sell. And admittedly, sometimes romance creeps into my WIPs regardless, because your characters can always surprise you. But I am currently writing one with a male/female BFF pair. Time will tell whether I'm able to sell it or not.

Anna L. · Apr 13, 2012

I'm burned out on romance and it shows in my novels. I do wonder if it's hurting me. I'm getting many read requests on my current project, but no agent offers. :/

Heck, the trilogy I sold to Musa is so light on romance that it's best described as a romantic friendship. No kissing, no touching, no I-love-yous. But it's still THERE.

I'd be happy to find romance-light YA to read.

KimJo · Apr 13, 2012

Most of my YA stuff has romance in it. None of my books would be classified as romances, though. I save that for my actual romance books (which are for adults...) The romances/relationships are incidental to the primary plot. I did write a YA novel that's supposed to be a romance between two boys, and it gave me fits because other things than the romance kept wanting to take center stage.

I'm going to be writing a short Christmas story/novella for e-release at the request of one of my editors; he wanted a story about an asexual teenage boy and decided I was the author to pull it off. Considering that most of my YA characters end up at least having romantic feelings for other characters, it's going to be interesting to see what happens when I get around to writing this story...

KateSmash · Apr 13, 2012

missesdash said:
Every relationship is different, they don't all require swooning, hand holding and xoxoxox's. So definitely ask yourself if it's the romantic relationships you dislike or just the conventions/tropes/cliches of most romances.

Pretty much this.

I'm not big into the whole "teens are giant balls of horny hormones and need the sexy times 24/7" idea, or the "first love is the best and truest and deepest love in the whole wide world" idea that like to get kicked around in YA. And, thus, I don't write them. They just feel wrong for the kinds of story I tell. I usually end up with something more like a romantic friendship.

Will it handicap my chances? I honestly don't know. But I'd rather play around with the tropes and make something truer to my stories than shoehorn in a romance for marketability.

Ditching romance in YA?

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