YA Anti-Heroes? (Thoughts and Opinions)

Nogetsune · Apr 10, 2012

As of recently, my main YA project has come to a halt. I have started to lose interest in it and as a result have been contemplating new ideas, and I began to ponder the thought of an anti-hero in YA. I know, I know, publishers are not really looking for Anti-Heroes, but I feel they have so much potential and if there is one thing I love writing it's villains, anti-heroes and other despicable personalities.

So, I want your opinions, do anti-heroes have a place in YA? Or are they not really worth the rejections you would face?

The_Ink_Goddess · Apr 10, 2012

Love 'em. Also, you wouldn't necessarily face lots of rejections ~ anti-heroes are popular stuff right now, as you'll see from some of my recommendations. I don't think you even have to make them likeable, as long as you make them interesting and compelling.

For example:
Parker, CRACKED UP TO BE, Courtney Summers.
Regina, SOME GIRLS ARE, Courtney Summers.
Micah, LIAR, Justine Larbalestier.
Eliza, FURY, Shirley Marr.
Flannery, THE BASIC EIGHT, Daniel Handler.
Nick, BREATHING UNDERWATER, Alex Flinn.
Young, SHATTERING GLASS, Gail Giles.
Sonny, DEAD GIRLS DON'T WRITE LETTERS, Gail Giles.
Cass & David, WHAT HAPPENED TO CASS MCBRIDE?, Gail Giles.
Kip, RIGHT BEHIND YOU, Gail Giles.
Gray, ENDGAME, Nancy Garden.
Jazz, I HUNT KILLERS, Barry Lyga.
Julie & Alex, PIECES OF US, Margie Gelbwasser.

etc. etc. etc.

KateSmash · Apr 10, 2012

I guess it depends on which definition of anti-hero you mean. But I love them all. From The Punisher Batman to Heathcliff and Gatsby(even if I did hate both books on the whole). There's something fun about rooting for someone you know you really shouldn't.

I wouldn't worry too much about what was said in one panel on trends. Publishers are probably swamped with submissions right now of tough, gritty main characters now that more and more people are aware of The Hunger Games - and most folks think anti-heroes are the 90's cliche of being tough, gritty, and busting heads.

So write what you like. All it takes is one good book to change publisher's minds.

Nogetsune · Apr 10, 2012

Yeah...the current anti-hero I'm writing is Kai...who you could consider a "mad scientist..." He's a wealthy teenage inventor who has managed to create a process that extracts Aeather, a magical energy source from mythical creatures, killing them in the process. He's selfish, greedy, arrogant, obnoxious, a closet pervert and total spoiled brat who's discovery just happens to be the one thing that will allow humanity to evolve into a super-advance species that can compete with your favorite intergalactic superpower.

However, the guardians of magical creatures, suppressors of human advancement and stewards of the planet known as the Church of Incantarum(who dwell within and rule hollow earth) want to keep humanity suppressed and technologically backwards to prevent them from destroying the planet and other worlds like the economic swarm of locusts they think them to be. As a result Kai becomes an unwilling champion of humanity and develops from being totally selfish to actually caring about humanity's advancement as a race, though he's still a ******* despite.

So yeah, I like my anti-heroes and it's good to know there is a place for them.

Sage · Apr 10, 2012

I love anti-hero and villain POVs. I have quite a few, actually.

However, just the other day in a conference, an agent said that anti-heroes were a hard sell to publishers. So that's worth noting.

Still an excellent book with an anti-hero will probably find a home.

Becca C. · Apr 10, 2012

I always think of anti-heroes as being more mild... I have one character I kind of consider to be an anti-hero because some of the choices he makes are really, really dumb. Like, he treats a friend like crap. He hurts someone for a stupid reason. His fatal flaw is selfishness and blindness to other people's feelings. That can make him pretty damn unlikeable.

mickeyDs4 · Apr 10, 2012

I have but two words for you: Severus Snape!

Becca C. · Apr 10, 2012

mickeyDs4 said:
I have but two words for you: Severus Snape!

*applauds*

Favourite anti-hero ever.

Sage · Apr 10, 2012

But he's not the MC

LadyA · Apr 10, 2012

The_Ink_Goddess said:
For example:

Young, SHATTERING GLASS, Gail Giles.

I liked Young - he was wrong to do whatever Rob told him, but I wouldn't consider him an anti-hero...but I may be wrong

Becca C. · Apr 10, 2012

Sage said:
But he's not the MC

True, but do they have to be the MC to be called an anti-hero? He's one of the most heroic characters of the series.

mickeyDs4 · Apr 10, 2012

Han Solo is the anti-hero of the classic Star Wars and he's not the MC, he's secondary.

Sage · Apr 10, 2012

Sure, anti-heroes don't have to be the MC, but I assumed the OP was asking about the anti-hero as the MC (although, I read back now and it doesn't specify that).

rynthewin · Apr 10, 2012

If you feel like your project would benefit from a new anti-hero, then by all means do so! Even if it doesn't work out then at least maybe you will have gained a new perspective.

Quite frankly, it disappoints me that it's hard to sell an anti-hero to a publisher. There's so much that you can explore about the dark side of the human psyche with an MC that is an anti-hero (or even a villian).

MKrys · Apr 10, 2012

The main character in my book is pretty, uh, bitchy. I had to tone it down a bit as I was told by first readers it was a bit much. It does leave a lot of room for interesting character growth, though!

twright · Apr 10, 2012

Sage said:
Sure, anti-heroes don't have to be the MC, but I assumed the OP was asking about the anti-hero as the MC (although, I read back now and it doesn't specify that).

I think it might be good to drag out a good working definition of anti-hero. When I see a range of characters from Han Solo to Snape invoked, and others in between, I'm just wondering if everyone has the same definition?

missesdash · Apr 10, 2012

I always get antihero and villain protagonists mixed up. I write really lovable drug addicts, drug dealers, prostitutes and thieves, but I don't know if someone can be an antihero just based on their hobbies/occupation.

Villain protagonists are a lot more compelling for me, but much harder to write well.

missesdash · Apr 10, 2012

twright said:
I think it might be good to drag out a good working definition of anti-hero. When I see a range of characters from Han Solo to Snape invoked, and others in between, I'm just wondering if everyone has the same definition?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AntiHero

TV tropes is good for archetypes

PoppysInARow · Apr 10, 2012

Granted, the OP didn't specify whether the anti-hero was the MC or not, it's still a big difference.

An anti-hero side character, like Severus, falls into the same category a homosexual side character does. They're there, they're interesting, but the story is still heavily based in a hero's (often very different) viewpoint. As a side character, you only have to endure the anti-hero's questionable morality for short bursts, making it more tolerable.

On the other hand, if you have a main character whose an anti-hero, you're forced to endure their twisted thoughts longer. Also, books with an anti-hero MC are generally darker. Darker novels are not always popular with a wide YA audience, so publishers tend to be pickier. A novel with an anti-hero side character, however, could still be a lighter story.

As to my thoughts on them? Love 'em.

I'm writing a book with an anti-hero MC right now. I've heard of some YA horror and thriller trends coming up, so hopefully publishers are warming to the idea of some real darkness in YA. :evil

twright · Apr 10, 2012

missesdash said:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AntiHero

TV tropes is good for archetypes

So, granted it's not YA but I would think that Lisbeth Salander from The Girl With The Dragon Tatoo would be the poster child of an anti-hero then.

melnve · Apr 10, 2012

missesdash said:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AntiHero

TV tropes is good for archetypes

Must...not...click...

Seriously, TV Tropes is like some kind of vortex that sucks you in and never lets you out. It's like a drug - I'll just click this link and then I'll be done. Can waste whole days that way.

Rhoda Nightingale · Apr 11, 2012

The MC of Death Note is a straight-up villain protagonist--granted that's manga/anime, but it is aimed at young folks, and very successful.

Still, since when do publishers not want anti-heroes? Where did you hear this? So I know to cross that publisher off my list? Because the MC of my big YA WIP right now is most definitely an anti-hero on a very slippery slope.

Sage · Apr 11, 2012

Lucienne Diver said it at a convention this weekend.

The_Ink_Goddess · Apr 11, 2012

Rhoda Nightingale said:
Still, since when do publishers not want anti-heroes? Where did you hear this? So I know to cross that publisher off my list? Because the MC of my big YA WIP right now is most definitely an anti-hero on a very slippery slope.

Don't want to intrude on Sage's answer but it doesn't surprise me that antiheroes are a tough sell simply because they're tough to write. The important thing is to a write characters that are compelling, not necessarily cuddly or sweet, but compelling unpleasant characters are, to me, harder (if a lot more interesting) than likeable characters. The line on what is 'interesting' differs for everybody.

Nicole River · Apr 11, 2012

All I can say is, I hope (like someone mentioned already) it takes off to become the next big thing! I love antiheroes. (And I was actually surprised to learn that Lisbeth Salander (Millenium trilogy) is considered one. I kinda thought she was a hero, period. (okay, so it's not YA, but it's an example of a very popular book with an antihero protag!)

YA Anti-Heroes? (Thoughts and Opinions)

Nogetsune

The_Ink_Goddess

we're gonna make it out of the fire

KateSmash

this was a triumph

Nogetsune

Sage

Our Lady of Parentheticals

Becca C.

mickeyDs4

Becca C.

Sage

Our Lady of Parentheticals

LadyA

Always lurking, never posting...

Becca C.

mickeyDs4

Sage

Our Lady of Parentheticals

rynthewin

Plotting Princess

MKrys

Quietly obsessing

twright

missesdash

You can't sit with us!

missesdash

You can't sit with us!

PoppysInARow

twright

melnve

Rhoda Nightingale

Vampire Junkie

Sage

Our Lady of Parentheticals

The_Ink_Goddess

we're gonna make it out of the fire

Nicole River

with the weird fowl in her userpic