A dash vs. a "....."

tricon7 · Mar 19, 2012

I'm confused as to when to use the dash instead of the "....." symbols, or vice-versa. If I'm indicating a pause, I've seen them both used.

In the publishing world, is one used over the other?

Bufty · Mar 19, 2012

The only thing that indicates a pause is the writer saying so.

An ellipsis is indicative of missing words or the trailing off of dialogue.

An em dash is indicative of the speaker being interrupted in mid-sentence.

MKrys · Mar 19, 2012

An ellipses (...) is often used when dialogue trails off. An em dash is often used when dialogue is interrupted. For example:

Michelle: 'You could always enter my blog contest. I mean, it could be fun, and if you have nothing else better to do...'

vs.

Michelle: 'You could always enter my blog contest. I mean, it could be fun--'

tricon: 'Michelle, no one appreciates shameless blog plugging.'

See what I mean?

Jamesaritchie · Mar 19, 2012

While technically incorrect, many writers do use an ellipsis as a pause, and have for about a hundred and fifty years. It works pretty well. Better than a dash in many cases.

Jamesaritchie · Mar 19, 2012

MKrys said:
An ellipses (...) is often used when dialogue trails off. An em dash is often used when dialogue is interrupted. For example:

Michelle: 'You could always enter my blog contest. I mean, it could be fun, and if you have nothing else better to do...'

vs.

Michelle: 'You could always enter my blog contest. I mean, it could be fun--'

tricon: 'Michelle, no one appreciates shameless blog plugging.'

See what I mean?

I don't see either of these as dialogue trailing off, or as a pause. Both are complete sentences, and should end with normal punctuation.

Bufty · Mar 19, 2012

While technically incorrect, many writers do use an ellipsis as a pause, and have for about a hundred and fifty years. It works pretty well. Better than a dash in many cases.

True. But trailing-off while a speaker searches for the right words or phrase is not exactly the same as a deliberate pause.

Context again.

MKrys · Mar 19, 2012

Jamesaritchie said:
I don't see either of these as dialogue trailing off, or as a pause. Both are complete sentences, and should end with normal punctuation.

I guess the word fun should have read something like fu--

Agree to disagree on the ellipses

dpaterso · Mar 19, 2012

Yeah, it's good to see this question come round again... like an old, familiar friend....

I said it's good to see--

Nevermind.

-Derek

Stacia Kane · Mar 19, 2012

Jamesaritchie said:
I don't see either of these as dialogue trailing off, or as a pause. Both are complete sentences, and should end with normal punctuation.

It doesn't matter if the sentence is complete as written. What matters is that the speaker was not finished, or was saying the sentence in such a way as to indicate they were unsure about the finish or leaving it open for the person they're addressing to jump in and complete the thought.

Both of those sentences are correct as written, because the above was the author's intent. There is no "they should end like this." There is "The author intends for the sentences to be read like this."

The Drabbler · Mar 19, 2012

Ditto the explanations above.
Be careful with using ellipses though. It can be jarring for the reader. Use too many of them and you're likely to kill the pace of the narrative. Em-dashes can be used more liberally without pacing issues, but everything should be used in moderation.

JayMan · Mar 19, 2012

Em dashes can also be used to offset/emphasize bits of speech, like an idea within an idea.

"So then I marched right up to him, craned my neck to look up at him—he's eight feet tall, you know[FONT=&quot]—and told him that if he did it again, I was going to phone his mommy."
[/FONT]

Jamesaritchie · Mar 19, 2012

Stacia Kane said:
It doesn't matter if the sentence is complete as written. What matters is that the speaker was not finished, or was saying the sentence in such a way as to indicate they were unsure about the finish or leaving it open for the person they're addressing to jump in and complete the thought.

Both of those sentences are correct as written, because the above was the author's intent. There is no "they should end like this." There is "The author intends for the sentences to be read like this."

It does matter. Written as those examples were, it just comes across as poor usage.

Stacia Kane · Mar 19, 2012

Jamesaritchie said:
It does matter. Written as those examples were, it just comes across as poor usage.

To you.

PaulyWally · Mar 19, 2012

Jamesaritchie said:
It does matter. Written as those examples were, it just comes across as poor usage.

In narrative, I might agree with you. But in dialog, I just don't see how it can explicitly be considered poor usage.

But in either case, it was only an example of a couple particular uses for the punctuation in question. Maybe it's best not to nitpick the crap out of it, and allow the author to decide what is poor usage and what isn't when put in the confines of his/her story.

bethanythemartian · Mar 19, 2012

A pause in dialog that doesn't require punctuation:

"I don't know," Suzy said. She stretched, and then sighed. "I guess."

When I use "..." it's generally to trail off a thought that might have continued. Like:

"I suppose..."

And I use hyphens for interruptions:

"But-"

So it depends on the context of the pause. If the speaker is trailing off and then doesn't speak for a minute, an ellipses is appropriate. If the speaker abruptly stops speaking, like they had a thought in the middle of their sentence, a hyphen would be appropriate. If the speaker finishes their sentence but just seems to be thinking, neither is necessary, and you can use a brief narration to indicate a pause.

Orianna2000 · Mar 19, 2012

bethanythemartian said:
And I use hyphens for interruptions:

"But-"

I've been taught that a hyphen is never appropriate for indicating interrupted speech. You want an em-dash, which is either two hyphens or an extra-long dash. ("But--" or "But—")

PPartisan · Mar 19, 2012

Typically I wont use either, and much prefer to declare my pauses and interruptions just so the reader is clear.

Debio · Mar 19, 2012

Thank you. This thread has been useful for me as well. This topic is one that has been on my list to search for. I'm glad it came back actually. It is nice to learn how to fix my little problems with these.

Stacia Kane · Mar 20, 2012

Orianna2000 said:
I've been taught that a hyphen is never appropriate for indicating interrupted speech. You want an em-dash, which is either two hyphens or an extra-long dash. ("But--" or "But—")

This is correct.

A hyphen is specifically for compound words (invented or not, i.e. "skull-cracking pain") or words which don't fit at the end of a line in typesetting. I.e. "She opened the cup-
board and looked inside."

He frowned. "Interrupted speech--"
"Gets an emdash," she said. "I know. And this is kind of a lame example, too."

Stacia Kane · Mar 20, 2012

PPartisan said:
Typically I wont use either, and much prefer to declare my pauses and interruptions just so the reader is clear.

I'm a tad confused here. Do you mean telling rather than showing?

Mr Flibble · Mar 20, 2012

Just an addendum:

An editor once told me to 'cut back on the ellipses, it makes characters sound like breathy virgins'

Unless your characters ARE breathy virgins, obviously

Ellipses can be addictive, and so should be used sparingly.

EthanJones · Mar 20, 2012

Ellipses are used when the character makes a pause or does not finish his thoughts. Em dash is used when another character or event interrupts the character that is speaking.

Ethan

alpaca · Mar 20, 2012

Bufty said:
The only thing that indicates a pause is the writer saying so.

An ellipsis is indicative of missing words or the trailing off of dialogue.

An em dash is indicative of the speaker being interrupted in mid-sentence.

Yeah, this is how I've always viewed it. A dash is great if a character is being interrupted because it's so abrupt. Each of these punctuation types give me a completely different feel for how the conversation was going while I'm reading.

PPartisan · Mar 20, 2012

Stacia Kane said:
I'm a tad confused here. Do you mean telling rather than showing?

I'll write an example of what I'm getting at. If two characters were speaking, I'd use:

"Oh, you know. I've been fine up here, what else can I say? I don't know what to say."

Silence.

"Things will get better for you."

instead of

"Oh, you know. I've been fine up here, what else can I say? I don't know what to say..."

"Things will get better for you."

It's abrupt and matches the matches the distance between them

.

Domino Derval · Mar 20, 2012

PPartisan said:
I'll write an example of what I'm getting at. If two characters were speaking, I'd use:

to

It's abrupt and matches the matches the distance between them .

I read these completely differently.

A dash vs. a "....."

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