Advice: Adding an element to a story which may have been done to death.

alexward1981 · Mar 13, 2012

I'm writing a short story about a group of people who have been brought back to life from different time-periods, one from the 80's, one from only a few years ago and one from the Victorian era. The experiment that makes this possible was ran by a company with sinister intentions, I want to make the guy from the Victorian era into a serial killer, the company knows about this and brought him back for a reason.

Would it be cheesy to make this character into Jack the Ripper? The idea of the story is that it isn't a Ripper story, it will just happen to have him in it.

Is doing stuff like this too much of a risk, I really don't want to make the story seem hokey and I'm concerned that this character may get overused.

alexward1981 · Mar 13, 2012

Also, for most of the story you won't even know he's Jack the Ripper, there will be clues but it won't be obvious that it's him until closer to the end.

OhTheHorror · Mar 14, 2012

Personally? I'd skip making him Jack the Ripper, but that's just me. I guess there could be ways to freshen it up - there always are - but it would take some seriously creative word-slining.

Just my opinion. Feel free to ignore it.

jaksen · Mar 14, 2012

Why don't you have the other major characters think he's Jack the Ripper, therefore they treat him as such in whatever situation you're putting these people into?

He can still be pretty horrible, but turns out he's not Jack.

There is really no trope or idea that's been done to death so far as being 'unwriteable.' Check TV tropes (the website, but it refers to literature, too.)

What's unique about any idea is your spin on it, your words, your characters and how they react to the situation. If every idea had to be unique, we'd have no Avatar, no LOTR, no zombie or vampire stories, no Harry Potter-type novicekidinstrangenewschool stories in books, movies, on TV or in video games.

I am not saying that there aren't some very unique and new ideas out there, but don't be afraid of taking an 'old idea' and putting your own unique fingerprints all over it.

alexward1981 · Mar 14, 2012

This is true. Well the idea of bringing him into the story is that the company brings a guy back who they think is jack the ripper and condition him into killing people again to achieve a goal.

I don't think I'm ever going to say outright that he's Jack but it's going to be fairly heavily hinted at (he's already had memories of killing a woman, he's from the 1880's, later in the book he's going to be on Whitechapel and have flashbacks which will be the point where it's fairly obvious who he is) but he'll slowly remember who he is over the course of the story.

The only thing is that REALLY it doesn't need to be the Ripper, it just makes sense in the context of the story that the company would try to bring HIM back rather than a generic serial killer.

RobJ · Mar 14, 2012

alexward1981 said:
Also, for most of the story you won't even know he's Jack the Ripper, there will be clues but it won't be obvious that it's him until closer to the end.

Jack the Ripper is the only serial killer I know from that era. Soon as you bring him into it and give even a tiny clue, I'll be thinking it's him. Doesn't need to be obvious. I'll think it anyway.

squeaky pram · Mar 14, 2012

There's a film from the '70s called Time After Time in which H.G. Wells travels in the time machine of his own making to 1979 to pursue Jack the Ripper, who had used the time machine to escape from the police. A good film, actually.

But I'd be careful about using JtR as your villain. Better to make one up. Perhaps instead of killing prostitutes yours could kill political figures or vicars or random families or ____. That way the readers won't think of Jack and you'll be free to imagine whatever kind of killer suits your needs.

Jamesaritchie · Mar 14, 2012

You can always turn it on its head. They bring back Jack the Ripper, but it turns out he's not the serial killer we all think he was.

Possibilities are endless, if you turn things on their head. I remember reading one story where Dr. Watson turned out to be Jack the Ripper.

Anyway, if you just bring back a serial killer from the Victorian age, Jack the Ripper will pop into every reader's head the moment someone is killed. Play with the idea, make it take a left turn.

CheshireGrin · Mar 14, 2012

I agree with the above posts...I read a short story where Jack the Ripper actually killed using black magic and was therefore immortal...great read...you could do that, but also remember that women were "poison fiends" so maybe while everyone is concentrating on "Jack" they miss what is right under their noses or in their teacups.

Good luck...I hope it all works out.

Ginger Writer · Mar 14, 2012

I wouldn't make it Jack the Ripper. The idea seemed really interesting until that reveal. It's just my opinion, of course, but it feels much more fresh and thought-provoking if you come up with an original character instead. Good luck! Like I said, this sounds like a pretty cool idea.

Al Stevens · Mar 14, 2012

He's Jim the Ripper, Jack's brother, always living in Jack's shadow. But he can't bring himself to actually kill anybody. They call him the Ripper because he's a tailor, or whatever. They brought back the wrong guy.

Rbel · Mar 14, 2012

I like the Jack the Ripper idea, for one thing not much is known about him. Only about his crimes and nickname, not the actual person. So, you can make his personality however you like. But, most have at least heard of him, so they'll be able to have some connection to the story.

http://www.examiner.com/dog-care-in-fort-worth/ruth-monjaras

Buffysquirrel · Mar 15, 2012

Hmm, i think I'd pretty much groan if Jack the Ripper came into any story. But that's one person who's tired of all the glamour hung around the neck of someone who was probably an insane drunk who murdered women in order to take a few moments of pleasure in fulfilling his insane drunken fantasies.

Serial killers tend to have fixed ideas about the kind of victim who fulfills their fantasies. So conditioning them into killing another kind of victim might be tricksy. That aspect of the story I do find interesting.

Garriga · Mar 15, 2012

I like the idea, but No one know his real identity. So you could put a twist on how the company knows who he really is, and where his body is buried.

jaksen · Mar 15, 2012

What if the company can't 'afford' Jack, and they get some cheap rip-off instead, Joe the Slicer or Jen the Slasher?

Then everyone's really ticked off. Oh, is this not a comedy?

jk

roseangel · Mar 15, 2012

I don't know, I've always been a bit partial to H. H. Holmes. . .
How bout one of these killers?:
Amelia Dyer
Mary Ann Cotton
Jane Toppan
George Chapman
Belle Gunness
Joseph Vacher
Servant Girl Annihilator
William Palmer
Johann Otto Hoch
The Bloody Benders
Thomas Neill Cream
Thug Behram
Delphin LaLaurie

MJNL · Mar 15, 2012

You could always make it Joan the Ripper... do the other characters know who he is right away? It could even be some jovial, joking, happy-go-lucky guy and turns out he's Jack the Ripper. I think it's ok as long as you don't follow the "classic' idea of JtR: No dark, spooky, manically angry man walking around with scalpel out-thrust. Clichés are more fun when you turn them on their head.

Lillie · Mar 15, 2012

But, despite being anonymous, he was real, and so were the women he killed.

Take a look at the Mary Kelly photos.

Do you want to write a character who did that? Do you want to make him a happy-go-lucky, jovial chap?

I'm not saying you shouldn't write the story. I love a good ripper story, but I don't particularly want to read something that plays down what he did, or (god forbid) glorifies it.

My other concern would be accuracy. A lot of iterations of the Ripper just use the name as some kind of Victorian bogey man, with no concern for fact, like the women who died are interchangable and unimportant, like they can be treated with the same careless disregarded that the Whitechapel murderer had for them.

I'm a amateur ripperologist, and maybe I know too much about the subject, but I like to see accuracy.

I'd want to know how the 'real' ripper was identified, and who he was.
He would also have to be a viable suspect, not 'The Masons', or 'Prince Eddy', or one of the many other discredited candidates.
Also not Druitt. They did him in Sanctuary.
The Whitechapel geography would have to be right. It's so different now. I don't want to hear that he recognises the modern Dorset street, they pulled it down 90 years ago, or that Mitre Square is just like it used to be. It's not.

Of course, I'm just talking about myself here. Most people are OK with 'Jack' being used as a simple cypher for evil, or with his victims being portrayed as sexy hotties, or tarts with hearts of gold, or any other vague Victorian prostitute stereotype. But I'm not, it bugs the hell out of me.

Anyway, I just wanted to give you the view of someone who is interested in the ripper case. Most people probably wouldn't share this view.

But look at the Kelly photos. See what he really did. It's sickening.

squeaky pram · Mar 16, 2012

jaksen said:
What if the company can't 'afford' Jack, and they get some cheap rip-off instead, Joe the Slicer or Jen the Slasher?

Then everyone's really ticked off. Oh, is this not a comedy?

jk

Lol. Great idea!

alexward1981 · Mar 20, 2012

Lillie said:
But, despite being anonymous, he was real, and so were the women he killed.

Take a look at the Mary Kelly photos.

Do you want to write a character who did that? Do you want to make him a happy-go-lucky, jovial chap?

I'm not saying you shouldn't write the story. I love a good ripper story, but I don't particularly want to read something that plays down what he did, or (god forbid) glorifies it.

My other concern would be accuracy. A lot of iterations of the Ripper just use the name as some kind of Victorian bogey man, with no concern for fact, like the women who died are interchangable and unimportant, like they can be treated with the same careless disregarded that the Whitechapel murderer had for them.

I'm a amateur ripperologist, and maybe I know too much about the subject, but I like to see accuracy.

I'd want to know how the 'real' ripper was identified, and who he was.
He would also have to be a viable suspect, not 'The Masons', or 'Prince Eddy', or one of the many other discredited candidates.
Also not Druitt. They did him in Sanctuary.
The Whitechapel geography would have to be right. It's so different now. I don't want to hear that he recognises the modern Dorset street, they pulled it down 90 years ago, or that Mitre Square is just like it used to be. It's not.

Of course, I'm just talking about myself here. Most people are OK with 'Jack' being used as a simple cypher for evil, or with his victims being portrayed as sexy hotties, or tarts with hearts of gold, or any other vague Victorian prostitute stereotype. But I'm not, it bugs the hell out of me.

Anyway, I just wanted to give you the view of someone who is interested in the ripper case. Most people probably wouldn't share this view.

But look at the Kelly photos. See what he really did. It's sickening.

OK I've put a bit more thought into this and asked a few people in my writers group:

At no point in the story is he going to be called Jack the Ripper, the company brought back someone they suspected was the Ripper (not worked out the details on how they know that yet).

For 90% of the story, he doesn't know who he is, he starts killing because the company convinces him that it's in his nature, he keeps getting flashbacks to the past and these flashbacks slowly become more graphic.

Throughout the entire story he cannot remember his name and is referred to as 'Subject Two', later on he remembers a nickname he was given by other people and starts calling himself Jack but that's as close as the story will ever get to saying 'This is Jack the Ripper'.

MJNL · Mar 20, 2012

Lillie said:
But, despite being anonymous, he was real, and so were the women he killed.

Take a look at the Mary Kelly photos.

Do you want to write a character who did that? Do you want to make him a happy-go-lucky, jovial chap?

I'm not saying you shouldn't write the story. I love a good ripper story, but I don't particularly want to read something that plays down what he did, or (god forbid) glorifies it.

My jovial suggestion was not meant to imply that the person's crimes should be played down. All murderers (serial killers included) are not creepy men hiding in the dark who can easily be identified as 'bad men'--that's a stereotype I abhor, because it gives people the wrong impression:that all bad guys are clearly bad.

It's the same as making a rapist creep around in the shadows looking for a random victim when most rapists are quite personable and rape people they all ready know. If anything I was hoping the OP might change JTR into a more realistic, well-rounded character, rather than the dark, deformed, obviously crazy type of character he usually is represented as. If anything that down plays the seriousness and reality of his crimes.

MJNL · Mar 20, 2012

@Alexward1981-- Your approach may or may not work. It'll rely heavily on the execution, which is in itself a bit cliché (and those types of reveals are usually not as surprising as the author thinks they'll be). If you want to write it, write it. But be aware that it's the sort of set up a lot of editors will be familiar with (Who is character A? Wouldn't you like to know who character A is? Ha, I bet it's killing you. Ta Da!). Ask yourself this: why are you hiding his identity? What is it you hope the audience will take away from the story? If you hope they'll be shocked, they probably won't be. But, if you've got a different reason... Could work.

PPartisan · Mar 20, 2012

There were several JtR suspects, so it could be some his crimes were by copycat murderers. In fact, I'm fairly sure one of his "victims" was thought to be the product of just such an attack. There was a degree of anti-semitism around the Ripper murders as well that could provide limitless depth for characters and a rich metaplot, look at this site for instance. "Leather Apron" would be a great nickname for your man to remember!

alexward1981 · Mar 26, 2012

The more I think about this, the more I'm hesitant to make him Jack the Ripper, I might actually never reveal his identity at all, instead just dropping a few vague implications as to who he might me. I might do some deeper research into the killers of the time and give him elements of a few of them.

Advice: Adding an element to a story which may have been done to death.

alexward1981

alexward1981

OhTheHorror

jlw

jaksen

Caped Codder

alexward1981

RobJ

squeaky pram

oldie turned newbie

Jamesaritchie

CheshireGrin

Ginger Writer

Writing like a madwoman

Al Stevens

Rbel

Fish out of water

Buffysquirrel

Garriga

jaksen

Caped Codder

roseangel

Crazy Young Cat Lady

MJNL

A Little Lost

Lillie

practical experience, FTW

squeaky pram

oldie turned newbie

alexward1981

MJNL

A Little Lost

MJNL

A Little Lost

PPartisan

<><'ing for compliments

alexward1981