Do you think a writer should always aim to write stories with a deeper meaning?

Question · Mar 12, 2012

Using events that are metaphors for real-life problems/handling universal themes/embedding messages that a writer feels are important -- that sort of thing.

I've always written because I like interesting stories but I often wonder if that's enough.

Dreity · Mar 12, 2012

I think all interesting stories are interesting because they ask the readers questions that they actually have to think about, and I also think that at least half of those questions were presented to the author themselves while the work was in progress. I knew the plot to my novel almost a year before I knew the story, and I doubt my experience is unique.

Even vapid stories can inspire worthwhile discussions. Twilight might not be grade A literature, but it was a great incentive to get mothers and daughters talking about realistic relationships when perhaps it might have been more difficult to broach the subject had Twilight not become such a big deal. For that reason alone, I can't bring myself to loathe it entirely.

quicklime · Mar 12, 2012

Question said:
Using events are metaphors for real-life problems/handling universal themes/embedding messages that a writer feels are important -- that sort of thing.

I've always written because I like interesting stories but I often wonder if that's enough.

no. And i think the more effort you put into consciously forcing these things, the less likely they are to work.

IDGS · Mar 12, 2012

I think all great novels do tend to address certain issues, either because they're so relatable - or in some cases, so unrelatable.

However, it's difficult (for me at least) to make that a highlight while writing, especially in the first draft.

I like what King says in On Writing about that one. He says he goes through and writes the story for the sake of the story, then goes back and takes a look at the trends and themes he sees. If he feels it works and is going to contribute to the overall novel, he goes through again and beefs that theme up.

Forcing a theme or message in your story isn't usually successful.

But if one comes out? I say run with it.

Ari Meermans · Mar 12, 2012

quicklime said:
no. And i think the more effort you put into consciously forcing these things, the less likely they are to work.

This.

Question said:
I've always written because I like interesting stories but I often wonder if that's enough.

It's enough--it's enough as long as you make it interesting for your reader, too.

backslashbaby · Mar 12, 2012

Just being pleasing/interesting/entertaining in any way is what it's all about, imho. The deeper meaning stuff is just what pleases some folks (and I do like it myself). I don't think it's key at all, though.

Emtock · Mar 12, 2012

No, I really don't want to read about the meaning of life when reading a light, fluffy romance novel. If the meaning's deeper than "True love conquers all" it's too deep. Heh.

But more seriously, no, you don't have to have a deeper meaning in every novel you write. Or any, for that matter. If you're writing fiction, chances are people are reading your book to be entertained, not to get some life-changing message.

Plus, I think it's generally a bad idea to force a message into a book. Unless you want your novel to turn out like James Patterson's 4th Maximum Ride book *shudders* let the messages spring out of your work authentically. Aim to write the best novel you can, not the deepest.

jeffo20 · Mar 12, 2012

One of the issues I see with trying to write with a deeper meaning is that you can't make your readers interpret your story the way you want them to. People will see things in your story that you never intended. They won't see what you wanted them to see. They may see something profound, they may see nothing at all. Write a story that is meaningful to you, but know that not everyone will see it the same way.

n3onkn1ght · Mar 12, 2012

I think all good stories should ask questions about the human condition, even if they're only implicitly insinuated. What a good story shouldn't do, however, is answer those questions.

That's for the reader.

driedraspberry · Mar 12, 2012

I think this is a hard question to answer. While I don't believe in strangling a story with moral messages I do think it's important to introduce aspects of reality to the story and let them resolve themselves as the story itself progresses. I suppose it's subjective, but I personally wouldn't be very interested in stories that are pure fluff without any substantial exploration of the human condition. The only thing is, it should never be forced.

flapperphilosopher · Mar 12, 2012

jeffo20 said:
One of the issues I see with trying to write with a deeper meaning is that you can't make your readers interpret your story the way you want them to. People will see things in your story that you never intended. They won't see what you wanted them to see. They may see something profound, they may see nothing at all. Write a story that is meaningful to you, but know that not everyone will see it the same way.

This. Some themes are going to come out in your writing, whether lighter or Very Serious, even if you don't mean to put them there. It's easier to see themes in someone else's work than one's own (unless you're trying to write to theme, which I think is a bad idea). Creative works can be interpreted different ways-- they're interactive. I know a playwright who is well-known enough that his works get written about as Literature, and he's always interested to see what people come up with because most of the time it had never occured to him and never would have. Sometimes he agrees on it and sometimes he doesn't. Your meaning isn't always someone else's meaning, so trying to specifically write MEANING is going to come across heavy-handed or boring. You write the stories-- someone else will find the meaning.

kuwisdelu · Mar 12, 2012

I think we should always aim to write stories that people can find a deep personal connection to.

Meanings arise from the interaction of the reader and the text.

Novels aren't an easter egg hunt. They're not a lecture. They're a conversation.

Silver-Midnight · Mar 12, 2012

quicklime said:
no. And i think the more effort you put into consciously forcing these things, the less likely they are to work.

This.

veinglory · Mar 12, 2012

No. It can be just for fun, or shock value, or whatever.

jjdebenedictis · Mar 12, 2012

Novels are for entertainment.

But some people are only entertained by books with deeper meaning.

Whether your book should have some deeper meaning depends on who your audience will be and--this is important--whether you want to do that, as an artist.

Mharvey · Mar 12, 2012

Question said:
Using events are metaphors for real-life problems/handling universal themes/embedding messages that a writer feels are important -- that sort of thing.

I've always written because I like interesting stories but I often wonder if that's enough.

I think a writer needs to have his work matter to him/her. In order to do that, he or she has to pick at scabs and shed some tears. Not every page, but I think a writer has to get emotionally invested in their work at some point or he/she's just not doing it right. The best way that happens is finding parallels to your own life inside your characters and digging into yourself to the point where it hurts a bit.

Sometimes that comes with a metaphor as to how you could have handled things better in your own life, a what-if scenario, etc.

Anyway, I guess to answer your question, making messages/metaphors for the sake of making messages/metaphors run the risk of coming off as fake and pretentious. Making messages/metaphors because they mean something to you has a greater chance of allowing the reader to connect with ya.

My two cents anyway.

mccardey · Mar 12, 2012

There is no "have to". But those are the books I like to read - because, generally people do have a deeper meaning.

Arcs · Mar 12, 2012

I can't think of any good art/fiction/film that did not aspire to (or even just stumbled into and then ran with it) a deeper meaning. Even if that meaning is as simple as "life is beautiful" or "friendship is great."

Both of which are perfectly valid deeper meanings, in the grand scheme of things.

thebloodfiend · Mar 12, 2012

Arcs said:
I can't think of any good art/fiction/film that did not aspire to (or even just stumbled into and then ran with it) a deeper meaning. Even if that meaning is as simple as "life is beautiful" or "friendship is great."

Both of which are perfectly valid deeper meanings, in the grand scheme of things.

That's called a theme. You shouldn't write with a theme in mind. Nor should you write with a lesson in mind. Your story should come first. Then your "deep" message. Let the reader interpret what they will from your work.

I don't like being lectured. I like being entertained. A good writer doesn't throw their theme in your face like a one note, naked dancing baby. They weave it into the story, leaving you to mull it over after you finish the novel. It shouldn't be a jackhammer, wacking you over the head as you read. Don't make it obvious because your readers aren't idiots.

Imagine Lolita if Nabakov had written with a theme in mind instead of a story. It would've been 300 pgs of "pedophilia is bad, and Humbert is bad for engaging in it". At least, that's what I get from writers who write for theme instead of story, trying to prove a point instead of entertain me. Typically, those writers are also trigger happy fans of symbols and metaphors and allusions. That's how my dad writes, and while he's a good teacher, I don't care for most of his stuff. He thinks too much about the destination and not enough about the ride.

mccardey · Mar 12, 2012

thebloodfiend said:
That's called a theme. You shouldn't write with a theme in mind. .

Bother.

driedraspberry · Mar 12, 2012

thebloodfiend said:
Imagine Lolita if Nabkov had written with a theme in mind instead of a story. It would've been 300 pgs of "pedophilia is bad, and Humbert is bad for engaging in it". At least, that's what I get from writers who write for theme instead of story, trying to prove a point instead of entertain me. Typically, those writers are also trigger happy fans of symbols and metaphors and allusions. That's how my dad writes, and while he's a good teacher, I don't care for most of his stuff. He thinks too much about the destination and not enough about the ride.

Actually, from what I heard, Nabokov got the idea for Lolita from an article he read about a test monkey who'd been taught to draw, and how the first thing he drew were the bars of his prison.

I think it's perfectly fine to start the story with an intellectual perspective of what you want to inspect, so long as it doesn't hinder the flow of creativity.

thebloodfiend · Mar 12, 2012

driedraspberry said:
Actually from what I heard Nabokov got the idea for Lolita from an article he read about a test monkey who'd been taught to draw and the first thing he drew were the bars of his prison.

It's perfectly fine to start the story with an intellectual perspective of what you want to inspect, so long as it doesn't hinder the flow of creativity.

That's weird.

But really, all I meant to say was this -- don't let the message get in the way of the story. I've been bored out of my mind by English teachers who think the best way to teach AP Lang/Lit is by telling us what to think of the story and making it the driest, most boring experience of my life.

I don't mean to knock starting with an intellectual perspective, so much as knock the school of thinking that theme is the most important thing about your novel that you must constantly shove it down the poor reader's throat to prove how smart you are because you write about important things like death and love and friendship and freedom of religion. Sure, theme is important, but so is entertainment. I think a balance is nice.

huu · Mar 12, 2012

I think, as it's been said, that even if you were to put the effort in...I mean not everyone is going to see it that way.

And I feel it works the other way too. If you don't intend to, people will dredge up all sorts of interpretations. Even you might, despite not having set out to in the first place.

mccardey · Mar 12, 2012

thebloodfiend said:
That's called a theme. You shouldn't write with a theme in mind. Nor should you write with a lesson in mind. Your story should come first. Then your "deep" message. Let the reader interpret what they will from your work.

I don't like being lectured. I like being entertained. A good writer doesn't throw their theme in your face like a one note, naked dancing baby. They weave it into the story, leaving you to mull it over after you finish the novel. It shouldn't be a jackhammer, wacking you over the head as you read. Don't make it obvious because your readers aren't idiots.

Imagine Lolita if Nabakov had written with a theme in mind instead of a story. It would've been 300 pgs of "pedophilia is bad, and Humbert is bad for engaging in it". At least, that's what I get from writers who write for theme instead of story, trying to prove a point instead of entertain me. Typically, those writers are also trigger happy fans of symbols and metaphors and allusions. That's how my dad writes, and while he's a good teacher, I don't care for most of his stuff. He thinks too much about the destination and not enough about the ride.

I kind of like this post, but it's a little conflicted. I think if you do

write with a theme in mind

and you do it well, then this

A good writer doesn't throw their theme in your face like a one note, naked dancing baby. They weave it into the story, leaving you to mull it over after you finish the novel.

will happen.

And that's what I like to read, and what I aim to do as a writer.

Cacophony · Mar 12, 2012

I think a writer should always aim to write what is in his/her heart. Whether it be deep or shallow as long as it's honest.

Do you think a writer should always aim to write stories with a deeper meaning?

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