Cryptomnesia, Homage, or Theft?

KathleenD · Mar 11, 2012

I am nearly done with a manuscript. SO CLOSE.

The setting is original and so is the concept, if I may say so myself

The trouble is that one of the major plot points... well, not so much.

In short, a servant answers the door and tells another character that the man of the house has gone to a party. As it happens, the "servant" is actually the man of the house.

A fairly large chunk of the plot turns on this, so it's not a throwaway detail I can alter very easily.

Last night I was rereading a mystery, and there was my "original" plot point. I felt a little ill and read it very closely, looking to see what else I might have echoed. The other things that are the same between the stories is the man's wife is wholly convinced of his innocence, and the man's wife is suspected of cuckolding him.

There are no other points of similarity, but it's pretty obvious to me that my subconscious was drawing on this story.

The mystery in question was one I got off Project Gutenberg more than a year ago, when I first got my Kindle - the story was first published before World War I.

In your opinion:

- Do I have a moral obligation to rewrite my story?
- Do I need to mention my realization when I submit it?
- Am I overthinking this?

BTW, if it matters: The MS is a sci-fi mystery that I was planning to submit to agents, and not self-published erotic romance.

n3onkn1ght · Mar 11, 2012

Do I have a moral obligation to rewrite my story?
- Do I need to mention my realization when I submit it?
- Am I overthinking this?

No, no, and yes.

Don't rewrite it even a little. Great works of fiction borrow generalized plot points like this from each other all the time. The only thing you shouldn't do is treat it like its original and give it undue "Look at me! Aren't I so clever?" attention.

P.S. if it was published before WWI, it's in the public domain anyway (assuming you're from the United States) so you can cheerfully rip it off as much as you want with no consequences.

Cyia · Mar 11, 2012

This was basically the set-up for "Clue: the Movie". The Butler was Mr. Body. (It's also a basic set-up for dozens of other tales.)

Deleted member 42 · Mar 11, 2012

n3onkn1ght said:
P.S. if it was published before WWI, it's in the public domain anyway (assuming you're from the United States) so you can cheerfully rip it off as much as you want with no consequences.

Well, no, not so much. It's likely a writer won't get sued for copyright violation, but that does not equate to "no consequences."

And public domain varies from country to country; it may or may not be public domain in the U.S. or Canada or the U.K. or the E.U. depending on other factors.

KathleenD · Mar 11, 2012

Cyia said:
This was basically the set-up for "Clue: the Movie". The Butler was Mr. Body. (It's also a basic set-up for dozens of other tales.)

OMG. I forgot that

Between you and Neon I'm settling down now.

*

Another thing about public domain stuff, IMO, is that the most commonly repackaged material tends to be that which has stood the test of time.

For example, Little Women is in the public domain (and as noted, I don't actually know its status outside the US). But it's... it's freaking Little Women. Everyone knows it. People who haven't read it know what it is and would recognize the plot elements and characters.

And with the rise of e-readers, combined with people liking free stuff AND not really enjoying slush surfing? Public domain stuff is being read more than ever, I suspect.

WriteMinded · Mar 11, 2012

I doubt there is such a thing as a completely original plot. If you hadn't re-read the book, you'd never have known about the similarities.

Deleted member 42 · Mar 11, 2012

There really aren't new ideas; just new combinations. I often think of fiction plotting as like cooking.

You can have the same ingredients, with entirely different results.

little_e · Mar 12, 2012

Did Shakespeare have a moral obligation to re-write Othello? Or Hamlet? Or Romeo and Juliet?

None of us is an island. We *all* draw inspiration from the world around us. The task is to draw from the world around us in a way that is GOOD and contributes back to that world. Is the story something that people will enjoy? Then you're doing well.

IceCreamEmpress · Mar 12, 2012

The book where you first encountered the "master mistaken for servant" plot point isn't the first book to use the plot point. I can think of six or seven books off the top of my head where that plot point is used, not to mention plays and medieval fabliaux. Similarly the "wife supports husband's innocence" and "wife suspected of adultery" plot points. They're just part of the standard bag of tricks of Western narrative.

Jamesaritchie · Mar 12, 2012

Anything before 1923 is out of copyright pretty much world wide, and you can do as you like with public domain work. But any plot has probably already been done. Just add your own twist, add your own experience, and you're set to go.

eyeblink · Mar 12, 2012

Jamesaritchie said:
Anything before 1923 is out of copyright pretty much world wide,

Not in the UK, where copyright lasts seventy years after the author's death. For example, Howards End may have been published in 1910, but as E.M.Forster died in 1970, it won't be in public domain in the UK for some years yet.

Christyp · Mar 13, 2012

Medievalist said:
There really aren't new ideas; just new combinations. I often think of fiction plotting as like cooking.

You can have the same ingredients, with entirely different results.

As a great genious on this forum says *this*!

I'm a bibliophile and avid reader. One of my favorite newer series is the Black Dagger Brotherhood series by JR Ward. I picked up a book a few months ago (for the life of me I can't remember the author, though I remember it was another fave fantasy writer), and about three pages in I thought "this is the BDB!"

The book had the same concept, the same group of "warriors", even similar plot lines. But the book was a great seller, and wasn't from WWI. I think you're probably okay.

KathleenD · Mar 13, 2012

I was pretty wound up when I originally posted. I don't get out much (two jobs, small child), and I'm the only writer I know in meatspace who is gunning for fiction as a career.

(I don't judge, given that I did this myself for oh, five YEARS, but I admit I get frustrated when people say "I'm also working on a novel." If I ask when they last threw down a thousand words, the answer is maybe once in the last three months. No, I don't want to kill myself commenting on your first three chapters when I know perfectly well there's never going to be a final three. Gah!)

This is the writer's group I wish I had. I sure do appreciate the dose of perspective from everyone.

Susan Coffin · Mar 13, 2012

The reason you recognized that plot as your own is because it is a familiar and well used plot.

Do not rewrite. Do submit. Stop over-thinking.

horrorshowjack · Mar 15, 2012

KathleenD said:
Last night I was rereading a mystery, and there was my "original" plot point. I felt a little ill and read it very closely, looking to see what else I might have echoed. The other things that are the same between the stories is the man's wife is wholly convinced of his innocence, and the man's wife is suspected of cuckolding him.

Is this from the first Father Brown collection, with the philosopher and the rich actor/playboy?

Agree with the others though, most of what you mentioned is standard dramatic fare. Telling it your way is where the difference comes in.

Libbie · Mar 15, 2012

I think you're overthinking it, too. I assume you're writing a romance, not a mystery. And in any case, I kind of doubt the "master of the house pretends to be a servant" thing has never been used before that mystery. Seems like an obvious way for a master to avoid scrutiny if he needed to. I'm sure it's been used before. You're fine.

KathleenD · Mar 15, 2012

horrorshowjack said:
Is this from the first Father Brown collection, with the philosopher and the rich actor/playboy?

Agree with the others though, most of what you mentioned is standard dramatic fare. Telling it your way is where the difference comes in.

Yes!

I found the Father Brown stories less readable than Sherlock Holmes, but still pretty darn good.

I wasn't trying to be mysterious (no pun intended). I just didn't want the source's identity to factor into anyone's opinions. If it was wrong, it was wrong, no matter how well known or obscure the material. (Seems like Father Brown isn't obscure to big fans of the genre, but not very widely read outside that group.)

Cryptomnesia, Homage, or Theft?

KathleenD

New kid, but no need to be gentle.

n3onkn1ght

Cyia

Rewriting My Destiny

Deleted member 42

KathleenD

New kid, but no need to be gentle.

WriteMinded

Derailed

Deleted member 42

little_e

Trust: that most precious coin.

IceCreamEmpress

Hapless Virago

Jamesaritchie

eyeblink

Barbara says hi

Christyp

Lizard Lady

KathleenD

New kid, but no need to be gentle.

Susan Coffin

Tell it like it Is

horrorshowjack

Professional Heretic

Libbie

Worst song played on ugliest guitar

KathleenD

New kid, but no need to be gentle.