Name Those Cliches!!!

Ack, this wil lbe a long thread.

For me [writing and read Roman historicals] is the one that infests the Roman genre right now, this honourable, heroic Roman vs the barbarian hordes [even though 'barbarian' in Latin simply means foreigner.]
There's a distinct 'our boys mentality to it' and I wonder if Simon Scarrow et al are being paid by the British Army to recruit young men.

Out of interest, what is it about 'the damsel in distress' that you dislike? Weak female characters? Passive MC's who don't fight their own battles, and need saving?

I hate any cliche that isn't utilized on purpose. I don't hate cliches on sight. But when it feels as if the author fell into them because they didn't know any better, or because they didn't think to question what they were writing, then I hate them.

Not sure if this is a cliche (this sure is in local films/books in my country), but I hate stories with absolutely bad vs. absolutely good characters.

I also hate those stories where the bad guys want to destroy the world.

gothicangel said:

For me [writing and read Roman historicals] is the one that infests the Roman genre right now, this honourable, heroic Roman vs the barbarian hordes [even though 'barbarian' in Latin simply means foreigner.]

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I think you're underestimating the significance of 'barbarian' to the Romans there. A bit. A lot.

RogueCaptainJD said:

For me? I hate the typical Damsel In Distress stuff.

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As another poster asked, what do you hate about it? What is a typical DID scenario for you?

Buffysquirrel said:

I think you're underestimating the significance of 'barbarian' to the Romans there. A bit. A lot.

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No, not really. Modern writers seem to be screwing it up with a British Empire definition of barbarian. It's more a case of 'othering' a society that was not seen as 'compatible with Rome' [i.e a culture that was not interested in trading with them.]

http://humanitieslab.stanford.edu/219/194


For the record, I'm studying Ancient History/Classical Studies, so I understand the definition of barbarian right up to Ancient Greece.

Over the last few years I've loathed the cuddly vampire phenomenon.
Why would a centuries old vampire fall in love with a vapid high schooler?

Mary Sue's/Gary Stu's. Just, no.

Sydneyd said:

I hate any cliche that isn't utilized on purpose. I don't hate cliches on sight. But when it feels as if the author fell into them because they didn't know any better, or because they didn't think to question what they were writing, then I hate them.

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*sits with Sydneyd and shares lunch*

I don't mind if characters speak in cliches, but if used in prose too much, it seems like weak writing.

Actually, the word "barbarian" is ancient Greek in origin (barbaros). The Greeks were notorious cultural snobs and xenophobes, and the word was applied to anyone who didn't speak the Greek language (or who spoke it badly)--"bar-bar" were nonsense syllables in the Greek language.

Lifting your novel's narrative structure from some formulaic Hollywood screenwriting manual is a pretty ugly cliche. How about instead of relying your precious Freytag's pyramid as a crutch, you take advantage the possibilities your medium gives you. If you write about interesting folks with real problems with precise, beautiful language, I'll read your work. Just give it a form it needs, not a form you think will help it sell. Because I can see right trough that sort of bullshit.

I claim the beautiful woman who doesn't know she's a knock-out, yet wears high heels and fancy lingerie to work, where she seems to do nothing all that difficult yet is paid so much she has a spacious and well-appointed apartment in a large metro area, and none of the men she knows have any interest in her until the new fellow, the smoothest, most handsome man ever, arrives.

Yes, it's a trope in a certain variety of romance, but I stop reading when I hit this aspect.

Maryn, snooty elitist

The characters who hate each other and then fall in love.

Needing to save the world from destruction.

Maryn said:

...where she seems to do nothing all that difficult yet is paid so much she has a spacious and well-appointed apartment in a large metro area

Yeah, tell me about it. You know how much I paid for 150 sq ft of space in Manhattan? A LOT. I ate ramen and 5 boxes per dollar Mac & Cheese. And I got paid some serious money back then.

...none of the men she knows have any interest in her until the new fellow, the smoothest, most handsome man ever, arrives.

It's her adorkable glasses. No one can see the true gorgeousness of her being because of her glasses.

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Let's not forget protags who magically turn out to be savants in JUST the right thing to save the day, but had no idea until they had to use the skill. Or who have no idea what they are but end up being the daughter/son of the most powerful God or creature out there. I love me some fantasy fiction, folks, but at least give me a realistic reason for what they are and what they can do. I'd probably settle for someone who's NOT secretely royalty.

zebedee said:

Over the last few years I've loathed the cuddly vampire phenomenon.
Why would a centuries old vampire fall in love with a vapid high schooler?

Mary Sue's/Gary Stu's. Just, no.

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I know. Pedophile much.

I'm not a stickler really for cliches because some can be pulled off well. The whole, 'MC has to save the world from destruction', yes it's cliche, but depending on the story it might work. Take Harry Potter for example.

Orphans. They're cliche, but then it might be easier for the author to get rid of the MCs parents because what mother or father would let their child go on an epic adventure alone?

I think the only thing I really hate seeing is the MC being neglected/abused by foster parents or caregivers for no good reason except to add drama and tragic to the characters life.

Super Genius ten year olds, like Jimmy Neutron are a little annoying but I'll tolerate it. And Prophecy! Destiny! Those words are the epitome of cliche. I won't lie, my story has the 'destiny' factor, but I never ever ever say it. It's just a mutual understanding that the main character is important to the future of the world.

I'll tolerate prophecy, but if anyone has prophecy in their story, seriously just take the words 'prophecy' or 'destiny' out and let it be understood by the readers. It's a little redundant to mention their destiny written somewhere when you show that your world is expecting a savior, anyway. And no one will really connect the prophecy cliche to your story unless you come out and say it. Subtlety is important.

All-in-all, The Holy Bible would be considered cliche by our standards today. There's Prophecy. A hero (Christ) who will save the world from utter destruction. Satan's main objective is to destroy mankind and nothing else; he already failed at trying to become God.

So, as far as cliches go I can tolerate a lot. It's just those cliches that have no logical reasons behind them. Like starving the main character because his aunt and uncle favor their own child or are bias because he's part wizard or a bastard or doesn't have blond hair and blue eyes.

Here's a few that have overstayed their welcome in common vernacular. And I'm so guilty of using a lot of them.

"blood froze/boiled/drained"
"face paled"
"stomach churned"
"what started as X became Y"

Now, as to the actual topic of broad cliches, I think the biggest cliche (at least in Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) is where the main character finds out he has superpowers and, by the end of the novel, kicks ass with them.

It's so common it should be its own genre. "Superpower Fantasy."

amschilling said:

Let's not forget protags who magically turn out to be savants in JUST the right thing to save the day, but had no idea until they had to use the skill. Or who have no idea what they are but end up being the daughter/son of the most powerful God or creature out there. I love me some fantasy fiction, folks, but at least give me a realistic reason for what they are and what they can do. I'd probably settle for someone who's NOT secretely royalty.

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Yes. After Star Wars no one can use the 'Luke I'm your father' cliche. I can tolerate royalty, but when it's secretly royal, that's sort of 'eh'. The I had secret powers and didn't realize it is just pretty dumb in general.

Seriously, though, I have justifications for all my cliches, but unfortunately they're hard to avoid at times. Cliches really just mean they're good ideas and good ideas are used repeatedly.

Books, film and television:

To show how "bad" a bad guy is, the bad guy kills whomever he/she has hired to do an outside job to cover their tracks. This means assassins, fixers in generals, information-gatherers.

Okay, so if you are so bad-a$$ that you have to KILL everyone you hire to do work for you, then, sorry, you're pretty friggin' unprofessional and stupid. Burn enough bridges and you won't be in power long.

Every time I see a bad guy hire someone to "get a job done," I know that whoever they hire is pretty much a dead man/woman.

Books: Every teenager is suicidal, on drugs, cuts themselves, etc

Movies: A crazed maniac in the woods every freakin' time a bunch of 20somethings go camping.

TV: The unreality of "reality" TV.

zebedee said:

Over the last few years I've loathed the cuddly vampire phenomenon.
Why would a centuries old vampire fall in love with a vapid high schooler?

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So agree! I don't think there's anything particularly lovely or heroic about soulless creatures that feed off the life force of others, even animals. If a living person did that we would have a much more negative reaction to them.

I can see a vampire as a tragic "hero" but let's keep it real, the very nature of vampires is to be evil. Or its origins, I should say.

CrastersBabies said:

Books, film and television:

To show how "bad" a bad guy is, the bad guy kills whomever he/she has hired to do an outside job to cover their tracks. This means assassins, fixers in generals, information-gatherers.

Okay, so if you are so bad-a$$ that you have to KILL everyone you hire to do work for you, then, sorry, you're pretty friggin' unprofessional and stupid. Burn enough bridges and you won't be in power long.

Every time I see a bad guy hire someone to "get a job done," I know that whoever they hire is pretty much a dead man/woman.

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Agreed, bad guys killing their own henchmen makes them stupid. Dude, really? I can understand punishing them, but killing them? WHY? That makes no sense!

CrastersBabies said:

Books, film and television:

To show how "bad" a bad guy is, the bad guy kills whomever he/she has hired to do an outside job to cover their tracks. This means assassins, fixers in generals, information-gatherers.

Okay, so if you are so bad-a$$ that you have to KILL everyone you hire to do work for you, then, sorry, you're pretty friggin' unprofessional and stupid. Burn enough bridges and you won't be in power long.

Every time I see a bad guy hire someone to "get a job done," I know that whoever they hire is pretty much a dead man/woman.

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I dunno it really worked for the intro to Batman, but then again...The Joker is a wee bit off his rocker.

The bad guys who rile me up are the ones whose evil is shown by their physical appearance. Little eyes. Yellow teeth. Whatever. In RL, we'd never assume someone with these traits is evil. Or if we did, we should be embarrassed. This method of characterization only "works" because it's a cliche. A lazy one.

My most hated, currently, are governments that are evil for the sake of being evil (or evil for the greater good, but their "greater good" doesn't make any sense). They seem to be a trend in recent books, and (whether purposeful or not) it just makes me think the author doesn't know what worldbuilding is.

Another one I loathe is love at first sight (except when it's implied that the characters just don't realize what they're experiencing is lust), especially when the characters are teenagers. Bonus cliché points if the two characters have absolutely nothing in common, besides finding each other very attractive. (Even more bonus points if one is a century-year-old vampire/werewolf/manbearpig/whatever kids find hot these days.)