Publishing Fantasy as a Minor: is it possible?

Pikabuddy · Mar 10, 2012

Hi there! I'm 16 years old and going to be finishing my sophomore year in May.

Throughout my life, I've come to appreciate fantasy; high fantasy and epic fantasy in particular. Movies, books, and video games have all added to my passion for the genre.

Since the start of my freshmen year(I was 14 at the time), I have been working on a novel; a very long one in fact. It is, of course, a fantasy, in which I've incorporated humans, elves, dwarves, and dragons, set it a world with magic.

My novel is quite a read: I am nearing the end of the first draft now, and I it is approximately 60 chapters at 145,000 words. I plan on a trilogy; to write all three books--and more--is my desired career.

Tell me honestly. Do I even have a chance of publishing my book? Will the agents laugh at me when I walk up with my manuscript in hand? I've come to familiarize myself with important elements of storytelling, such as character building, tension, set-ups and pay-offs, etc. I understand that publishing is a competive industry--that even as an experienced, educated writer, it takes time, effort and patience to get published--and what agents expect from a manuscript.

Bottom line: Should I even try to get published? Are the chances so small that it isn't worth the time?

Thank you for reading. Any suggestions are appreciated.

Polenth · Mar 10, 2012

Minors need parents to co-sign contracts, but that's generally the smallest issue. Your chances of success will be based on how good the manuscript is, which isn't something anyone can tell you from your post. What I can say is 145K is a monster length for a debut, and you may find you have a lot of extra baggage you can cut from it.

blacbird · Mar 10, 2012

Eragon.

caw

Pikabuddy · Mar 10, 2012

Polenth said:
Minors need parents to co-sign contracts, but that's generally the smallest issue. Your chances of success will be based on how good the manuscript is, which isn't something anyone can tell you from your post. What I can say is 145K is a monster length for a debut, and you may find you have a lot of extra baggage you can cut from it.

Yes, I still have much revision to do before I am ready to submit it. I'm wondering, however, if (in your opinion) I should seriously pursue this goal. Will agents and editors even take me seriously?

Polenth · Mar 10, 2012

Pikabuddy said:
Yes, I still have much revision to do before I am ready to submit it. I'm wondering, however, if (in your opinion) I should seriously pursue this goal. Will agents and editors even take me seriously?

As long as you act in a professional way, you'll be taken seriously. But being taken seriously won't sell a book.

I can't tell you if your book will sell. You'll only know for sure by trying. Do be aware though, even those who are successful generally get rejected a lot. The first novel someone sells is often not the first novel they tried to sell. You do need to be prepared for that.

Pikabuddy · Mar 10, 2012

Polenth said:
As long as you act in a professional way, you'll be taken seriously. But being taken seriously won't sell a book.

I can't tell you if your book will sell. You'll only know for sure by trying. Do be aware though, even those who are successful generally get rejected a lot. The first novel someone sells is often not the first novel they tried to sell. You do need to be prepared for that.

Alright. Thank you for your response.

kaitie · Mar 10, 2012

I'd just like to say that if it's something you really want to do and it's your dream, why not try? Now, do I think that means you should try to publish this book? Not necessarily, but while things might seem to take forever right now, after awhile having spent several years at it doesn't seem like long at all.

The main thing to do right now is not just to revise, but to find objective beta readers who can give you good critiques and try to learn from those.

In terms of long-term thinking, a couple of bits of advice: While it's great to edit and revise, if you start to think this one just isn't going to do it for you, there's nothing wrong with setting it aside for awhile and working on something new. When you write something new you'll improve, and when you come back to it later you'll find ways to improve it you hadn't considered.

It's probably not a good idea for that new book to be the sequel to this one. That doesn't mean I'm not saying you can't write it, particularly if you don't mind that it could just end up being a practice novel (I've done it). That being said, though, if the first book doesn't sell, the rest of the books won't either. That means if you spend a lot of time writing several books in a series and the first one doesn't make it, you've basically wasted that time.

My recommendation would be to write out a detailed outline describing everything you know about the next books, and then work on a new idea first. You can always come back and write sequels later, and working on a new project means that you'll have something new to submit if this one doesn't work out. It's a good backup plan sort of thing.

As for length, be aware that 120,00 is considered the general top length for fantasy by new authors. That isn't to say really amazing books won't get picked up, but your book is really long, particularly for a debut. That means a lot of people won't even consider it and you've stacked the odds against yourself.

That being said, most of the time a long book (particularly fantasy, based on my observations) tends to be that way because it's overwritten. You can probably bring the length down if you needed to.

A good way to find out is to put a few pages in the SYW section here when you get done and see what people say. You'll get a better handle on how well your writing is progressing and people can point out any general flaws they see to help you fix the book overall and improve your writing.

The biggest problem with being young isn't that you're young. We have people on this forum who have been published incredibly young (think high school), but it takes a special kind of talent to do that, and to be honest most of us don't have it. I was 16 when I finished my first book (31 now), and I've only just now reached a point where I'm getting confident in my abilities and have gotten good enough to pick up an agent.

Writing well takes a lot of practice, practice, practice, and so it's perfectly normal for a first book not to be as good. As a young person, you haven't had as much time to practice as some of the rest of us.

Just remember no matter what you decide that perseverance and dedication will get you farther in this field than anything else. If you want it, you keep trying and make it happen.

Pikabuddy · Mar 10, 2012

kaitie said:
I'd just like to say that if it's something you really want to do and it's your dream, why not try? Now, do I think that means you should try to publish this book? Not necessarily, but while things might seem to take forever right now, after awhile having spent several years at it doesn't seem like long at all.

The main thing to do right now is not just to revise, but to find objective beta readers who can give you good critiques and try to learn from those.

In terms of long-term thinking, a couple of bits of advice: While it's great to edit and revise, if you start to think this one just isn't going to do it for you, there's nothing wrong with setting it aside for awhile and working on something new. When you write something new you'll improve, and when you come back to it later you'll find ways to improve it you hadn't considered.

It's probably not a good idea for that new book to be the sequel to this one. That doesn't mean I'm not saying you can't write it, particularly if you don't mind that it could just end up being a practice novel (I've done it). That being said, though, if the first book doesn't sell, the rest of the books won't either. That means if you spend a lot of time writing several books in a series and the first one doesn't make it, you've basically wasted that time.

My recommendation would be to write out a detailed outline describing everything you know about the next books, and then work on a new idea first. You can always come back and write sequels later, and working on a new project means that you'll have something new to submit if this one doesn't work out. It's a good backup plan sort of thing.

As for length, be aware that 120,00 is considered the general top length for fantasy by new authors. That isn't to say really amazing books won't get picked up, but your book is really long, particularly for a debut. That means a lot of people won't even consider it and you've stacked the odds against yourself.

That being said, most of the time a long book (particularly fantasy, based on my observations) tends to be that way because it's overwritten. You can probably bring the length down if you needed to.

A good way to find out is to put a few pages in the SYW section here when you get done and see what people say. You'll get a better handle on how well your writing is progressing and people can point out any general flaws they see to help you fix the book overall and improve your writing.

The biggest problem with being young isn't that you're young. We have people on this forum who have been published incredibly young (think high school), but it takes a special kind of talent to do that, and to be honest most of us don't have it. I was 16 when I finished my first book (31 now), and I've only just now reached a point where I'm getting confident in my abilities and have gotten good enough to pick up an agent.

Writing well takes a lot of practice, practice, practice, and so it's perfectly normal for a first book not to be as good. As a young person, you haven't had as much time to practice as some of the rest of us.

Just remember no matter what you decide that perseverance and dedication will get you farther in this field than anything else. If you want it, you keep trying and make it happen.

Wow, this is a great response. I really have spent a lot of time with this book and its characters, and would hate to put it aside. It has everything in it I like about fantasy, everything that matters to me. I really feel I can do something with this novel, even if it takes longer than I want it to.

I have been thinking that, in general, my book is lengthy in general. From a first look back, it seems that I've included all that's necessary-nothing more, nothing less. That doesn't mean I can delete some scenes and shorten some others, or make short cuts(the good kinds of short cuts).

You bring up a good point; about the first in a series not getting published. I think I will start a new, shorter, stand-alone novel if my first in the series doesn't get going.

Also, I have been very hesitant to put my work-even just a few pages- on the Internet. I feel like my work is exposed, and while I can receive very helpful critique, there is always a biting feeling in the back of my head that tells me not to.

Thank you again for your advice.

kaitie · Mar 10, 2012

Just to address your concerns:

As to setting it aside, I'm not saying you absolutely must, but just that it's okay to do. Now, it hurts, and I'll admit that, but the advice I'm giving is based on what I've learned from doing this, and in this regard I've learned a couple of things. Just because something is set aside doesn't mean it's forgotten. There reaches a point where we've done the best we can at that point, and the only way to improve it anymore is to improve our skill and then come back to it later.

I've got a book that I simply adore, and I'm planning to give it another rewrite (after over a year and a half) in a few months. I've set it aside and written two other books and I periodically go back to this one and rewrite it. The main character is my absolute favorite character I've ever created, and I don't plan to just let him fade into nothing.

It's more a matter of recognizing when you're better served by moving on to something new for a little while. When you do come back to it, you notice a ton of things that you hadn't noticed the first time (you'll have more objectivity and you'll have improved in the meantime) and you can work to make it better. Also, and this is one of those hard to believe things until you've done it a couple of times, once you start something new you fall in love with that as well. You'll love the characters and the story and you'll become just as attached to that one.

So I guess what I'm saying isn't "Put it in a drawer and forget about it" so much as "putting it aside for a few months or a year won't hurt if you have to."

As for length, I mention this because I had the same experience. The first book I wrote that I thought was good enough to be published clocked in at 185k. I didn't know this was unworkable, and I started looking for ways (reluctantly) to cut it down. What I learned was that I'm a ridiculous overwriter. :tongue

.

I eventually got the book down to 116k, and I can honestly say most of that just came from getting rid of the words I didn't need. I had a tendency to say things like (I'm not kidding lol) "He reached out with his left hand and grabbed the cord and pulled it from the wall." Imagine my surprise when I figured out "He unplugged the cord" worked much better.

That doesn't mean that's your problem, but it does mean it's something worth considering. If your writing is great and not overdone and the plot is all integral, you shouldn't cut it, but I know that I was amazed when I started to see how simplifying things helped, and I've worked with enough other writers to help them out to know it's a common problem.

As for posting online, I share the concerns, but the SYW area here is password protected and not searchable on something like Google. If you're really nervous you can always make friends here and ask for a private crit (I've done them for others), but SYW is designed with writerly paranoia in mind.

Pikabuddy · Mar 10, 2012

kaitie said:
Just to address your concerns:

As to setting it aside, I'm not saying you absolutely must, but just that it's okay to do. Now, it hurts, and I'll admit that, but the advice I'm giving is based on what I've learned from doing this, and in this regard I've learned a couple of things. Just because something is set aside doesn't mean it's forgotten. There reaches a point where we've done the best we can at that point, and the only way to improve it anymore is to improve our skill and then come back to it later.

I've got a book that I simply adore, and I'm planning to give it another rewrite (after over a year and a half) in a few months. I've set it aside and written two other books and I periodically go back to this one and rewrite it. The main character is my absolute favorite character I've ever created, and I don't plan to just let him fade into nothing.

It's more a matter of recognizing when you're better served by moving on to something new for a little while. When you do come back to it, you notice a ton of things that you hadn't noticed the first time (you'll have more objectivity and you'll have improved in the meantime) and you can work to make it better. Also, and this is one of those hard to believe things until you've done it a couple of times, once you start something new you fall in love with that as well. You'll love the characters and the story and you'll become just as attached to that one.

So I guess what I'm saying isn't "Put it in a drawer and forget about it" so much as "putting it aside for a few months or a year won't hurt if you have to."

As for length, I mention this because I had the same experience. The first book I wrote that I thought was good enough to be published clocked in at 185k. I didn't know this was unworkable, and I started looking for ways (reluctantly) to cut it down. What I learned was that I'm a ridiculous overwriter. .

I eventually got the book down to 116k, and I can honestly say most of that just came from getting rid of the words I didn't need. I had a tendency to say things like (I'm not kidding lol) "He reached out with his left hand and grabbed the cord and pulled it from the wall." Imagine my surprise when I figured out "He unplugged the cord" worked much better.

That doesn't mean that's your problem, but it does mean it's something worth considering. If your writing is great and not overdone and the plot is all integral, you shouldn't cut it, but I know that I was amazed when I started to see how simplifying things helped, and I've worked with enough other writers to help them out to know it's a common problem.

As for posting online, I share the concerns, but the SYW area here is password protected and not searchable on something like Google. If you're really nervous you can always make friends here and ask for a private crit (I've done them for others), but SYW is designed with writerly paranoia in mind.

Right. I definitely will consider starting another novel soon, perhaps in the same world I've created for my current book.

And, in fact, I have recently finished a chapter that is...suitable for reading

. I think I may upload it soon, maybe to get some critique to see where I stand in my writing progression.
It's really funny, I've nearly finished my first draft, yet no one has really dug through my stuff, so I really do not have a good idea as to how good I am. Family and friends don't count; while I appreciate their suggestions and time, they--understandably-- don't want to hurt me with criticism.

Again, thank you for your time!

Old Hack · Mar 11, 2012

I'm not sure that Ask The Agent is the best place for this thread so I'm going to move it to Basic Writing Questions, where it should get a wider audience. Please keep your hands and feet inside while the thread is in motion.

Parametric · Mar 11, 2012

If you don't tell agents you're under 18, they don't have to know until they offer to represent you (in which case you'd need to notify them that your parents will need to sign the contract). Any rejections you get will thus be based on the quality of the work, not the age of the writer.

FallenAngel · Mar 11, 2012

To be honest, if you are really good, and publishers are impressed with your work especially being a teenager, they may use that also to help promote the book.

It is rare when it happens, but if Christopher Paolini did it, so can you.

Susan Coffin · Mar 11, 2012

Welcome.

If you write a novel that agents or publishers think will sell, you can publish at any age. What a wonderful accomplishment that you are writing a novel so young!

bonitakale · Mar 11, 2012

Parametric said:
If you don't tell agents you're under 18, they don't have to know until they offer to represent you (in which case you'd need to notify them that your parents will need to sign the contract). Any rejections you get will thus be based on the quality of the work, not the age of the writer.

Ditto this. Your age is your own business, until contracts come into it.

In a letter, you don't tell them you're sixteen, or sixty-one, for that matter. It doesn't come up unless you start blathering on about your yearbook experience or your grandchildren.

Parametric · Mar 11, 2012

bonitakale said:
Ditto this. Your age is your own business, until contracts come into it.

In a letter, you don't tell them you're sixteen, or sixty-one, for that matter. It doesn't come up unless you start blathering on about your yearbook experience or your grandchildren.

Yep. My (cynical) experience is that plenty of teenage writers say they don't want to be judged on their age, but make sure to state in their query letter that they're only sixteen, presumably hoping to impress someone. If you're serious about being judged on your writing alone, you don't mention your age. Period.

Pikabuddy · Mar 11, 2012

Wow! Thank you everyone for the replies.

I think I have decided what I will do at this point. I will make my novel the best it can be, and start submitting the manuscripts to agents. As I wait, however, I will write a new, stand-alone novel-perhaps in the world I've created for the current book.

I also may upload a scene or two to the SYW after I revise some, so look for that soon

ylrebmik · Mar 11, 2012

First of all, I just want to congratulate you for finishing your novel!!! I started mine when I was 14, and by 17 I decided what I had was crap and I scrapped it. To finish something at your age is wonderful!

It's a 150,000 words and it's your first novel. Focus on editing and getting it up to par. It might take you 3 years to get it exactly how you want it anyways, which in that case you'll be 18. I wouldn't worry about it. Just write the best story you can and go from there.

Stijn Hommes · Mar 11, 2012

Minors can publish as long as a parent or guardian co-signs the contract.
Age doesn't matter, but you better make sure the manuscript is the best it can be. Make sure it is edited until it shines before you send it out.

Pikabuddy · Mar 11, 2012

ylrebmik said:
First of all, I just want to congratulate you for finishing your novel!!! I started mine when I was 14, and by 17 I decided what I had was crap and I scrapped it. To finish something at your age is wonderful!

It's a 150,000 words and it's your first novel. Focus on editing and getting it up to par. It might take you 3 years to get it exactly how you want it anyways, which in that case you'll be 18. I wouldn't worry about it. Just write the best story you can and go from there.

Thank you

I've still got to write the final chapter--which I've heard is one of the hardest. The climax overall has been challenging to write; fitting all the pieces together in a believable way.

Brigid Barry · Mar 11, 2012

Pikabuddy said:
My novel is quite a read: I am nearing the end of the first draft now, and I it is approximately 60 chapters at 145,000 words. This will need to be cut. Dramatically. Shoot for 100,000 words. I plan on a trilogy Make sure your first novel will stand alone so you can pitch it as having series potential; to write all three books--and more--is my desired career. Then start taking classes in English, creative writing, etc. And figure out where you are going to work because I'm pretty sure even Stephen King has a side job.

Tell me honestly. Do I even have a chance of publishing my book? Everyone has a chance Will the agents laugh at me when I walk up with my manuscript in hand? You don't go to agent offices, and you don't just give them a manuscript. You send them a query letter (most are via e-mail now) and then if they are interested then will ask to see more of your material if they like your query. I've come to familiarize myself with important elements of storytelling, such as character building, tension, set-ups and pay-offs, etc. I understand that publishing is a competive industry--that even as an experienced, educated writer, it takes time, effort and patience to get published--and what agents expect from a manuscript.

Bottom line: Should I even try to get published? Are the chances so small that it isn't worth the time? Depends. Can you handle getting 200 rejection letters in the hope of getting a request for a partial? Will you be okay when the editor wants you to make sweeping changes to your novel? Only you can decide.

Thank you for reading. Any suggestions are appreciated.

Minors can enter into contracts with parental consent. It's as simple as that. First you finish your manuscript, then you edit the heck out of it. Then you have someone else read it and edit the heck out of it again. Then you get to go to Query Letter Hell for the next phase of your ~~torment torture~~ journey. When you aren't writing you can look at things like Query Shark, Ms. Snark and check out the Submit Your Work and Query Letter Hell forums to see what you're getting into. The most important thing right now is completing your MS.

As for the guy who wrote Eragon, he did publish that book at 15. I was told his parents own a publishing company. (if this info is incorrect PM me and I'll edit this post)

Strom · Mar 12, 2012

Actually, I think Christopher Paolini (author of Eragon) was 15 when he started writing it. By the time he had finished it, he was older. His parents chose to self-publish when he was 18 or 19, I think.

Phaeal · Mar 12, 2012

Pikabuddy said:
Yes, I still have much revision to do before I am ready to submit it. I'm wondering, however, if (in your opinion) I should seriously pursue this goal. Will agents and editors even take me seriously?

Agents will take you very seriously if they think they can sell your work for good money. If the MS is competent, with a sturdy hook, your age itself could become another hook. The media like to make much of prodigies.

Pikabuddy · Mar 12, 2012

KateM said:
phase of your ~~torment torture~~ journey.

I laughed at this. Mostly because I know it's true.

Crock-o-dile · Mar 12, 2012

I started writing in high school when I was around fourteen (fantasy also), and I remember wondering a lot of the same things you seem to be grappling with now. Am I too young?, will people take me seriously?, is there more I need to learn?, etc.

I expect the ANSWERS to those questions vary on an individual level. I will say this, however: I just found an agent for my first finished novel, and it's actually based off a story I wrote when I was fourteen, which I revised and expanded when I was sixteen and then came back now, at twenty-three. The sub-plots and details have shifted, but the general outline has stayed fairly stable.

In other words, even if you're young, it's entirely possible that there's absolutely nothing is wrong with your ideas and concepts. In my case, it took a little time for my writing abilities to catch up to those concepts, but it did happen. Focus on the story that you want to tell, and everything else will eventually fall into place.

Publishing Fantasy as a Minor: is it possible?

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