Differences between novels and comics/manga

Question · Mar 6, 2012

I've wanted to talk about the differences between novels and comics/manga for a while now

I've never seen a proper discussion anywhere, and I know that there are a lot of comic/manga fans here.

One thing I've noticed is that -- in general -- novels can get away with less exaggeration/'silliness' for the sake of humour. People's actions need to make sense. In a comic, a character may provoke someone and wind up getting hit over the head with a bat. They're lying in a pool of blood in one frame and in the next they're perfectly fine. More often than not, you wouldn't be able to get away with a similarly executed joke in a novel. Comics give you more freedom in that respect.

What other differences have you noticed? And what are your thoughts about the way things are? I'm happy to hear about anything that's got to do with the relationship between novels and comics/manga

kuwisdelu · Mar 6, 2012

Umm. One is more visual than the other.

One is more or less continuous in time while the other is discrete in time.

And possibly POV is more fluid in manga/comics.

Those are the main differences, I think.

Something like what you mentioned is more a function of genre and ton than medium, I think. It's certainly much more common in manga/comics, but it could be done in other media as well, including prose, given the proper balance of genre and tone. But I do see what you mean as far as the audience being more receptive to such things.

Domino Derval · Mar 6, 2012

The best comic books, and I have to assume the best manga, would have to have the same standard of storytelling. Just as novels can be poorly-written vanity projects, so too can bad comics skate by on fan loyalty and bad manga get by through trope utilization.

As for issues of slapstick, I don't think humor that relies on big visual gags is suited to a completely non-visual medium. It can be done, but it's harder. Much like intricate wordplay is tougher when you're trying not to obscure the art of a comic.

Dreambrewer · Mar 7, 2012

Due to the nature of the visual medium, some things work a lot better in comics than in books. Long, complicated fights are a pleasure to see in comics, but may be dreary in a book. Imagine for example the Namek Saga in Dragonball Z. It simply wouldn't work as a book, but as a comic, it is great. The essence of a plot and story are usually different between the mediums, because they do different things well. Action is more suited for the visual medium, and political things and often suspense is better for books.

On the other hand, in Japan, there exists a genre called the light novel, which mimics manga in many of it's ways. Descriptions are usually less detailed in the scenery, but more detailed in the actions. It is less important what things look like, but more important what happens. You might spend several light novels to depict a single battle(they're usually only a few hundred pages each), something that is quite unheard of in regular novels. Due to the differences between light novels and regular novels, I'm not sure light novels are really accepted by publishers in the rest of the world, since they don't follow normal novel guidelines that much. Perhaps I'm wrong though.

Something that I would like to know is how do chinese wuxia books compare here. Are they more like light novels or regular novels in that respect? I believe they are quite focused on fights and such, and less in other things. I really should read some to gain a better knowledge of them.

Dreity · Mar 7, 2012

I would be interested in seeing light novels gain more popularity elsewhere in the world. We have novellas, I suppose, but those are structured more like novels than Japanese light novels. We did the whole serial novel things in the days of Dickens, so I don't see why we couldn't come back around to that in a fresh new way. Also, light novel doesn't mean light content, it just means it hurts less when you get hit in the head with it. Though I understand that this is a dealbreaker for some..

Chiron · Mar 7, 2012

Also there's the difference between manga and comics. Westerns storytelling tends to be very different than Japanese. They use different methods, not to mention different culture nuances. I have read mangas that move very much like a novel. We have a central character and plot. We solve said issues, story over. Comics, typically, don't work that way. They tend to focus on building a universe often working with other artists building a community for the fans. Comics work almost more like tv shows, where manga works more like a novel. Though I see much formula in both.

Readers of comics/manga seem more willing to accept formula as well if the artwork is good enough, which the same could be said for a novel. It just seems writers are more encouraged to hide the use of formula as much as possible.

Button · Mar 7, 2012

Writing a graphic novel is also much different than writing fiction. The one I wrote needed to be "told, not shown"... a lot different than the "show, don't tell" I had been used to working on.

There's the basic scene you need to talk about so the artist knows what she's doing, and then there's the language you have to use. My publisher kept reworking some of the language for that one.

And the readers want it just right. I was so used to working with novels that I paced it like I would a novel, and readers admitted that it seemed too fast paced. (I thought the opposite was supposed to be true of comics? They were more fast paced?)

It was a fun experience though. I learned a lot from it.

Huntnpeck · Mar 8, 2012

I think there are other differences between a comic book and a novel. In an original story (not part of a series) epic comic, there are usually hints about what will happen. Also, the difference between hero and villain is more clearly defined. Names are often symbolic.

As an example, the movie Avatar was a comic book/movie. There are hints that foretell future events. Sigourney Weaver says she would die to get samples of the tree of souls. When she gets the opportunity, it's on her deathbed. There are two or three other examples of this. The mining corp is clearly the villain destroying nature, even HOME TREE. There's no green left on Earth. Visually, it's just like a comic - colors, look of characters, prehistoric birds, even 3D.

little_e · Mar 8, 2012

I find the demands of 'writing' in pictures far more difficult (could just be lack of practice) than of writing in words. A mediocre-ly written story will still make sense, but a comic/manga which isn't well done may just not make any sense at all. Things like pacing become very delicate, and it's important to make sure the reader knows which background elements (if any) are important to the story. I find this easier in writing. Information has to be revealed more tightly (or more slowly) as well--a novel can have a lot of dialogue, but a comic can't. And you can have a novel which doesn't depend a lot on setting, but you really can't have a visually uninteresting comic.

rendezvous_with_leon · Mar 8, 2012

I could get all into it, but one of the things I've noticed is that in manga, nothing (well, most things) really has to "make sense." It's kind of just... "Well this happens and it just happens because it happens." For example, I recently read a manga called "Me and My Brothers" (shojo is my guilty pleasure ^-^), and the girl is 14 and after her grandma died -- maybe I just don't know the rules in Japan, but this seemed odd -- her grandmother's lawyer told her she could just live by herself. I mean... really? I get that her brothers show up and save the day, but neither the daughter nor her lawyer knew they were coming.... Only the grandmother knew. And the grandmother was dead. And she lived on her own for about a month and I'm just, like, how is that possible. Groceries magically bought themselves? Bills magically paid themselves? People just magically didn't care that there was a 14 year old girl living by herself? It just kind of made me laugh. I mean, I don't think I could swing something like that in a novel without being criticized.

But who knows. Maybe in Japan it's okay. I just found it odd.

Anyway, that was my little off-topic tangent.

Good thread!

veinglory · Mar 8, 2012

I would agree that basically one has a lot of pictures and the other doesn't. You will see the full range of tone and theme in both if you look for it.

Rubay H. · Mar 8, 2012

Has there ever been a comic or manga told from a first person perspective visually as opposed to just in the narrative?

HoneyBadger · Mar 8, 2012

One difference:

I am not confident that I'm ever reading manga correctly, because sometimes they're backwards and sometimes not, and sometimes I'm supposed to read from the bottom left or top right or something, and it's all very perplexing, and also because I don't know what fox-ears on everyone has to do with anything.

Novels? I'm confident that I'm reading them in the correct direction, at least.

thothguard51 · Mar 8, 2012

Raises hand and waves it till noticed...

I know this one and the answer is pictures, pictures with women in skimpy clothing and bigger boobs than, well real women.

<<<<Points to avatar

Gordon · Mar 9, 2012

Novels are a very broad term for full length books, whereas manga is a specific kind of illustrated storytelling. Even if you include graphic novels, you're still talking about a illustrated storytelling, aimed at a specific kind of audience, in a pretty limited age range.

A novel, by definition, isn't like that - it can be aimed anywhere, at anyone who reads without pictures, in any genre, for any age level, any level of seriousness, depth, complexity, humor, or none of those things at all.

In short, I'm not sure why anyone would ask for a comparison between the two - it's a bit like asking the difference between Industrial Music, and all music, ever. It would be much more appropriate to compare manga to graphic novels - they share medium, but approach the story telling differently.

Kriven · Mar 9, 2012

Why do graphic novels have to be limited to a specific age range? I don't see that at all. I think anybody, at any age, can walk into a comic book shop and find something that works for them.

thebloodfiend · Mar 9, 2012

HoneyBadger said:
One difference:

I am not confident that I'm ever reading manga correctly, because sometimes they're backwards and sometimes not, and sometimes I'm supposed to read from the bottom left or top right or something, and it's all very perplexing, and also because I don't know what fox-ears on everyone has to do with anything.

Novels? I'm confident that I'm reading them in the correct direction, at least.

What kind of manga are you reading?

Anyway, I used to read a lot of manga and western comics. They're as different from novels as novels are from screenplays. It's an art unto itself. Humor is generally a bit harder to get across in novels because tone is kind of difficult to infer without visual and/or tonal context.

There are also a lot of books that would fail as comics and vice-versa. Something that relies on heavily on language probably wouldn't do so well as a comic. Something that relies heavily on art and long (boring) action sequences would probably fail as a book. Batman: Year One would probably make a pretty good book. Arkham Asylum? Not so much. Catcher in the Rye, because of the voice and the action, would probably make an interesting comic. Something by Joyce? Not so much.

thebloodfiend · Mar 9, 2012

Kriven said:
Why do graphic novels have to be limited to a specific age range? I don't see that at all. I think anybody, at any age, can walk into a comic book shop and find something that works for them.

For once, I agree with you. This:

Novels are a very broad term for full length books, whereas manga is a specific kind of illustrated storytelling. Even if you include graphic novels, you're still talking about a illustrated storytelling, aimed at a specific kind of audience, in a pretty limited age range.

Is wrong. There are graphic novels for every age group, especially in Japan. Just a quick walk into any comic book store will tell you that. TBH, most of what they sell is not for kids. There's no way in hell I'd give half of the new DCU titles to a young kid. I feel kind of dirty reading some of them in public. Especially the new Catwoman and Red Hood and the Outlaws.

jaksen · Mar 9, 2012

Have any of you read Neil Gaiman's 'The Sandman?' Of course you have. I borrowed it from the library (yes, I did) and it was a wonderful reading experience. First of all, the thing weighed a ton, all bound up in leather box. (I think it was year one.) And at the end, Gaiman goes into the process he uses when writing it. If you've not read that part and you're a fan of his, I'd recommend getting a hold of the complete thing.

I've read a few graphic novels and I'm quite a bit older than most people in this thread. (I would guess.) I sometimes wish I could draw - or knew a great artist - so I could turn one of my 'graphically-imagined' novels into a graphic novel.

As for how they're different, the big one is the visual aspect imo. I can well imagine Gaiman's Sandman as a novel, and that's how he thinks of it at times. As I said, the process he goes through makes a fascinating read in and of itself.

Gordon · Mar 10, 2012

I said limited age range - never said kids. Seems the same age range as most comic fans in the average comic store... Novels, OTOH, range from able to read to old age and death.

jaksen · Mar 10, 2012

I am in old age, hehe, but recently I found all my old comics from the 1960's. Unfortunately older ones were tossed by my sisters when they cleaned out our mother's house. Dammit.

I still love comics. I think a lot of older folks do.

Kriven · Mar 10, 2012

The only age range I see for comics is from infancy through death.

Gordon · Mar 11, 2012

Kriven said:
The only age range I see for comics is from infancy through death.

Okay. I'm not into comics, particularly manga, so ignore my impression regarding age relevance.

Still, re the original question: the difference between a novel and manga is that one is a novel, and the other isn't.

Shika Senbei · Mar 11, 2012

rendezvous_with_leon said:
I could get all into it, but one of the things I've noticed is that in manga, nothing (well, most things) really has to "make sense."

Of course, that's not a prerequisite in novels either.

rendezvous_with_leon said:
People just magically didn't care that there was a 14 year old girl living by herself?

Sounds a bit like Binbou Shimai Monogatari, where a 15-year-old girl has to take care of her 9-year-old sister after their mother dies and their father abandons them. In reality, Child Services would be all over them (especially in Japan), but it does make for a cute story. Of course, many such stories are a form of escapism for a younger audience, and fantasizing about a life without nagging parents is part of that.

Shika Senbei · Mar 11, 2012

Dreity said:
Also, light novel doesn't mean light content, it just means it hurts less when you get hit in the head with it.

Compared to western fare, quite a few of those light novels have a fairly slow-moving plot though. The Japanese love "slice of life" stories, and even action-filled novels tend to have a fair number of chapters in which little happens, or seems to happen.

I love that stuff to bits myself, and my own work is heavily influenced by it. Alas, it leads to people complaining about my stories having "too little conflict", since Western readers tend to skip over the more subtle tension in my stories. That ought to teach me to choose the wrong influences! Maybe I should read more Chuck Palahniuk, or maybe I could try to write in Japanese (yeah, right).

So I could see light novels become a success in the West, but then the formula would have to change to fit the Western taste. I don't know whether illustrated novels would really be such a hit though.

Differences between novels and comics/manga

Question

Soon I will be invincible

kuwisdelu

Revolutionize the World

Domino Derval

FREAKING OUT!

Dreambrewer

Dreity

Chiron

Button

Resident in Question

Huntnpeck

little_e

Trust: that most precious coin.

rendezvous_with_leon

veinglory

volitare nequeo

Rubay H.

HoneyBadger

terribly loud, emotionally distant

thothguard51

A Gentleman of a refined age...

Gordon

Kriven

thebloodfiend

Cory

thebloodfiend

Cory

jaksen

Caped Codder

Gordon

jaksen

Caped Codder

Kriven

Gordon

Shika Senbei

Me want a cookie!

Shika Senbei

Me want a cookie!