Do you ever just sit down.. and write crap?

julzperri · Mar 1, 2012

I was steaming along with my first attempt at a novel, and got to 30,000 words in before I realised that nothing had even happened. Sure the FMC realised she was magic.. but that was about all.

Since scrapping and trying another angle, I sit down and try to write, and each time the words come out ridiculously stupid. I'll use the word 'she' too many times, or info dump, or ramble... I just can't get the words out.

Is this just a part of writing or am I pursuing a dead end here? I've never really experienced (although I have to admit I'm not a seasoned writer

). It's just really put me out... perhaps I always wrote like this, but critiquing and being critiqued here has made me much more critical of my writing as I'm writing it - if so, how do I turn it off! Haha, sorry I'm sure heaps of people go through this, it's just so foreign for me to just sit down and turn myself off writing!

Thanks

Andrea_James · Mar 1, 2012

Right now I'm the proud owner of a 66-page dissertation chapter that might as well be a coffee stain. On the plus side, I don't want to think about it, so my creative writing is getting more attention than it has since high school...

catian · Mar 1, 2012

Can you give an example to illustrate what you mean by ridiculous?
I tend to write when the needs arises , like I could doind something else like washing up say, then two words come up I call it surge, and so I finish what I am doing then I go straight to the computer then start typing those words and then I take it from there.
I somemtimes try and just type random words, almost liek trying to force myself and it is just slow and tedious, so I give it up and go and do some thinking.
The best ideas I have is when I was not thinking writing.

Orchestra · Mar 1, 2012

Unpleasant thoughts and feelings are a part of writing, yes. All writers will experience self-doubt, worthlessness or inadequacy at some point in their lives. There is nothing abnormal about this at all. As long as you don't let these experiences stop you from writing, you'll be fine.

That said, you might find that your process needs some tweaking. I can't imagine writing tens of thousands of words and spending countless hours only to find that not much was accomplished. I'd much rather put five percent of that energy into planning and make sure I have a solid structure in place before I begin putting the prose together. Writing a book is a large project, especially for a beginner, and it must be managed as such. You map out your steps, take them one at a time and check your progress when you get to your milestones.

Buffysquirrel · Mar 1, 2012

It's a learning curve. Sometimes it's a very steep curve. But the writer who can see where they're going wrong and is determined to improve is going to beat the curve.

As Orchestra says, for some writers, outlining first is the process that works best for them. For others, like me, just getting the words down then going back and slapping them into shape...well, it's how we work best. Neither process is 'better' than the other, although outlining may be more efficient. What's important is to find the method that works for *you* and not to try to force yourself to work in a way you're not comfortable with.

Don't freak yourself out by worrying about everything that's 'wrong' with what you've written. It's easy to get into a negative space where everything is wrong and it's too difficult to fix. Pick one aspect that you think needs to improve and work on that. Then another. Then start to realise why I'm aghast that people think all this effort is only worth 99 cents

.

The more you read, write, and critique--for critiquing will improve your writing more than *being* critiqued--the more you'll accommodate what you need to do to write well, and the better your writing will be.

Grunkins · Mar 1, 2012

I'm about 50k into my WiP and most of it is crap. That's the freedom of a first draft. Just get it down. Then later, scene by scene, layer by layer, draft by draft make it into the best goddamn novel you can imagine.

Kube · Mar 1, 2012

I agree with grunkins. For years I let myself quit every time I wasn't happy with what I was writing. As a result I've never finished anything. Finally I decided to just go for it and while I'm not always happy with the days work, at least it's getting done. I know I'll probably have to cut a good portion of it and do extensive rewrites but there are also times I'm thrilled with what I've written. With practice, I find the latter happening more and more often. The best advice I've ever been given was "allow yourself to suck."

I think the movies give writers the wrong idea about the process. You always see a writer typing the last sentence, popping a bottle of champagne and calling his agent to tell him it's done. They completely skip over the extensive rewrites and polishing required before its ready for anyone to see it.

Also, while nothing may have happened in your book yet, sometimes you have to write quite a bit before you find your beginning.

Chiron · Mar 1, 2012

It kind of sounds like your confidence is a bit shaken, and may be blocking your talents a bit. That work you loved enough to get 30,000 words into probably wasn't as bad as you thought. In this case I'd suggest you keep working on it, explore it, and edit it down later. Sometimes you learn the most about your story and characters that way.

ohthatmomagain · Mar 1, 2012

I love writing first drafts. They are so freeing and you can write anything (as many "she"s as you want)-- but then you get to the editing and you think, "Man, I wish I had of written this better in the first place" lol

But I think you need that creative "anything goes" first draft to get your ideas out, personally.

Gilead · Mar 1, 2012

Pep-talk Neil Gaiman did for Nanowrimo a couple of years ago might help:

http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/pep/neil-gaiman

Also, there's a difference between using the word 'she' too many times and writing crap.

I know people who will make a cup of coffee, not put in quite enough milk or sugar, and say 'This coffee tastes like shit'. It really doesn't. It just needs a bit more milk or sugar. So they put in a little more milk, and it's fine.

On the other hand, I'm the sort of person who will only say coffee tastes like shit if the milk's off, the coffee is a) instant and b) in a packet left open on a windowsill for six months, and I have accidentally used salt instead of sugar. In that case, the coffee really does taste like shit, and all I can do is tip it out and start again.

By the sound of it, you're really not in the second situation. Write the story, then you can add a bit more milk.

RobJ · Mar 1, 2012

Listening to a podcast of a Joyce Carol Oates interview on the way into work this morning, and she said 90% of what she does is revision.

ylrebmik · Mar 1, 2012

I got to 25,000K on my novel last year. It was crap and I reworked the whole plot so I scrapped it. I picked it back up again this week to see what I could salvage. I started writing it again, but I think I definitely need to outline. I noticed, for myself, that I would just keep writig to write and get it down, but it was such a jumbled mess. For round 2 on it, I'm going to be a bit more careful and plan it. Maybe that would help you too?

Orchestra · Mar 1, 2012

Buffysquirrel said:
Neither process is 'better' than the other, although outlining may be more efficient. What's important is to find the method that works for *you* and not to try to force yourself to work in a way you're not comfortable with.

Learning new ways of doing things often feels uncomfortable at first. Unlearning old patterns can feel downright painful. But just because something is difficult doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. If you spend three months revising and refining your methods, you can save years in the span of your entire career. Many writers continue working well into their eighties. Learning to be smart about how you work is well worth the investment.

Buffysquirrel · Mar 1, 2012

Orchestra said:
Learning new ways of doing things often feels uncomfortable at first. Unlearning old patterns can feel downright painful. But just because something is difficult doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. If you spend three months revising and refining your methods, you can save years in the span of your entire career. Many writers continue working well into their eighties. Learning to be smart about how you work is well worth the investment.

I see. So we won't talk about the years of my career I wasted trying to write the outline way and so literally could not write at all?

GFanthome · Mar 1, 2012

Orchestra said:
Unpleasant thoughts and feelings are a part of writing, yes. All writers will experience self-doubt, worthlessness or inadequacy at some point in their lives. There is nothing abnormal about this at all. As long as you don't let these experiences stop you from writing, you'll be fine.

I couldn't agree more with this advice.

Every now and again, this sort of thing will happen. If you get an idea for a different piece, consider moving on to something new and letting this piece sit on the back burner for a bit. It will give you a fresh perspective when you do decide to revisit it.

Also, consider putting together a skeleton of the story before you start writing, so you have a general idea of what the story is about and what you need to flesh it out from chapter to chapter.

Modog814 · Mar 1, 2012

Yup, happens to me all the time, but as some others have said, that's why it's a first draft and not a polished ready to submit manuscript.

You may have 30K words of backstory that won't ever see the light of day or you may have 15K words of pure gold covered by 15K words of crap.

When I find myself in a situation similar to yours, I just push through knowing I can come back to it in a 2nd draft. What it usually turns out to be is that I know this scene happens. I just don't know exactly what or why it's important so I can't focus the writing on it. So I end up with a whole bunch of very descriptive actions (she raised her hands and took the book from her father. She licked her finger between each page flip) that is basically crap. I need to find out what happens later in the story to fully understand what was important about this scene and why. Sometimes the answer is, it wasn't important at all (good bye crap) and sometimes it's very important and I know that the corners of the pages were laced with poison, so licking her fingers to turn each page is the important part. And then I can re-write with a new focus.

Orchestra · Mar 1, 2012

Buffysquirrel said:
So we won't talk about the years of my career I wasted trying to write the outline way and so literally could not write at all?

I'm not advocating any specific method over another. I'm just pointing out that any method that allows someone to write 30,000 words and then completely scrap them as unusable needs to be evaluated very critically.

In my mind, there is nothing mystical about writing a book. It's just another project. Yet very few writers are halfway decent in managing one. If you were responsible for a web development project in a software company, you couldn't get away with wasting months of development time because you were poorly prepared, didn't do your research, didn't set proper milestones, neglected regular follow-ups and used blatantly inefficient working methods. All your creative brilliance doesn't mean anything if you keep fumbling around like that. You'd get slapped for your incompetence and rightly so.

Although we generally write fiction independently and are not in a position to be fired, I don't feel comfortable throwing away weeks or months of my own work. My time is far too valuable for that. Instead I try to do everything I reasonably can to maximize my chances of success from the start. That means taking the right steps in the right order and making sure I'm walking on solid ground before I really pick up the pace. To me, that's just common sense.

Buffysquirrel · Mar 1, 2012

We don't actually know whether there was a method here that failed.

I'm perfectly capable of organising a project. I have managed an office in the past and achieved better results than many comparable places doing the same work.

However, the choice when it comes to my writing is not between writing messily and writing efficiently. It's between writing messily and not writing at all. Therefore, my choice *is* common sense.

Layla Nahar · Mar 1, 2012

Do you write your first version on the computer? I was able to get much further by writing in a notebook.

Other thing, if you are writing and writing and writing and it fails to add up to a story, I'd say the thing to do is really study what makes stories work.

Jamesaritchie · Mar 1, 2012

I don't know about "crap". This is usually just the writer worrying too much about judging his own work.

But I never, ever write 30,000 words without something happening. I start with something happening, right on page one. The right kind of action/conflict/story on page one means something will happen regularly. Each action is followed by a reaction, and each reaction is followed by an action.

A novel doesn't have to start with car chases and explosions, but it should start with story. Open with the MC in a situation that requires, or forces, immediate action, and you won't have to worry about writing 30,000 words without anything happening.

The opening situation sets up the entire novel. It should pose a problem that must be solved, and/or a question that must be answered. And the problem and/or question must be important enough to the MC that he or she can't sit around and think about it, can't decide to do something about it six months from now, but must try to do something about it now.

Doing critiques can be good, but critiquing someone else who's also getting it wrong won't help you a bit. Critique published novels, ones you love. This is where you learn what good story is, how a good novel should open, how pace works, what proper structure really is.

Tell your own story, but copy structure, pace, flow, mood and tone, etc. This is how we all learn, consciously or not.

Most important, finish what you start. You learn nothing by writing partial novels, except how to quit.

ChaosTitan · Mar 1, 2012

For some writers, first novels are fantastic learning tools, even if you never manage to get it to a publishable level. And it's easy for first-time writers to get discouraged during the writing process, especially as you become more aware of your mistakes and weaknesses.

Give yourself permission to just write the story. Turn off the voice in your head that's pointing out overuses and bad phrases--you can edit that later--and write until you hit The End.

Orchestra · Mar 1, 2012

Buffysquirrel said:
We don't actually know whether there was a method here that failed.

There is always a method, a way of going about writing. It might not be articulated very clearly, it might not be very organized and the writer may not know how to replicate it, but it's always there, by necessity. A manuscript doesn't simply appear out of nowhere, it's the result of focused effort. How that effort is focused determines the method.

Buffysquirrel said:
However, the choice when it comes to my writing is not between writing messily and writing efficiently. It's between writing messily and not writing at all. Therefore, my choice *is* common sense.

Well, it is certainly possible that you are, for some reason, incapable of writing efficiently. It's conceivable that you lack some innate, perhaps genetic prerequisite that makes learning effective and economical writing methods truly impossible. But as someone who works in education, I'd much rather believe you are capable and just don't know how.

I've seen students who are almost dysfunctionally disorganized learn how to take control of their writing assignments and the results are always noticeably better. Having a sense of control about your work instead of flailing about in the dark can be very empowering and satisfying. Again, this has nothing to do with outlining or not outlining and all to do with being mindful, focused, and systematic and following procedures you know are going to maximize your chances of success. Writing tens of thousands of words before realizing your story isn't going anywhere is very far from that.

Stew21 · Mar 1, 2012

I believe whole-heartedly that the first go of a novel (not just a first novel) isn't going to be perfect. You can't worry about too many shes or not enough action. Your writer brain is trying to get it all out. Let it. When the story starts to take shape some of the crappiness subsides. The biggest goal for you as you are starting is to make yourself get to the end of the story. Just get to the end and don't worry about how the words look.
All of that stuff can be fixed in a second (or third or fourth) draft. You can't fix what isn't written. You don't need to edit yourself so early on. Just write the story as it comes to you and fix the crap later. In some cases, it might take gutting whole scenes/chapters. In others, it's a matter of line edits and tweaking sentence structures.
Just get to the end and then see what you have.

Charlie Horse · Mar 1, 2012

To answer the root of your question: Yes. All the time. Any writer who claims they can sit down and have perfect prose fly from their fingers (and there are many who do) are most likely full of it. That's why learning to revise and edit is just as important a skill to develop as knowing how to plot, pace, and write dialogue. Do you think someone can sit down at a piano for the first time or pick up a guitar and play beautiful music. No. It takes years and years of practice before you're good at it. Then it takes even more hard work and determination to be considered a master. Patience and tenacity are a writer's best friends. If you really, really want to be a writer don't get discouraged, just keep writing.

K.L. Bennett · Mar 1, 2012

Everyone goes through this to some extent. My first drafts are pretty much always at risk of being trashed, but I know deep down that nearly everything is fixable, even the crappiest of crap.

I used to edit as I went, finishing a few pages, maybe a chapter, or scene, and then going back and editting the hell out of it, to the point where it was as perfect as possible, before moving. Now, I try really, really hard to just get through an entire first draft before I edit anything. It's not natural to me, so it's still pretty hard to reign in that constant editor urge, but I've found I stress less about the little things this way and focus more on the story and any plot holes that might arise.

Do you ever just sit down.. and write crap?

julzperri

Caffeine & trying not to scream.

Andrea_James

catian

Orchestra

practical experience, GTFO

Buffysquirrel

Grunkins

Grand adventurer of the couch

Kube

Fresh Meat For The Grinder

Chiron

ohthatmomagain

writing, working, weeping, winning

Gilead

RobJ

ylrebmik

Orchestra

practical experience, GTFO

Buffysquirrel

GFanthome

At the computer, opening a vein

Modog814

Orchestra

practical experience, GTFO

Buffysquirrel

Layla Nahar

Seashell Seller

Jamesaritchie

ChaosTitan

Around

Orchestra

practical experience, GTFO

Stew21

Charlie Horse

Speaking in metaphors

K.L. Bennett

A floopy flolloper