the pitfalls of repetition and how to overide it

catian · Feb 27, 2012

This is came up as I am in the process of thinking of ways to improving originality and keeping to one uniqueness of writing.

The possibilities of the same plot being rewritten is as popular as the name John and Mary.
So I was thinking in terms of new additions/toosl/twist one can add/substract/renew the same story in order top improve it and make it even better then the first one.

For example if we take the Titanic as a movie there is nothing to stop another director from coming along and rewriting the Titanic under 'fictional movie' to give it a better and new twist and gain even more popularity.

what changes can on writer do/use to perfect one already existing story.
In order how does one do it?

dpaterso · Feb 27, 2012

If you haven't already, you ought to look up how many Titanic movies were made before James Cameron's blockbuster -- and how many have been made since. It's a popular subject!

They each focus on a different set of characters (possibly aside from the famous captain, but even his lines are different in each film).

It's a true event so you can write about it too if you want, just don't borrow anything that's gone before. Make up your own original plot with your own original characters, set against the famous event.

-Derek

Dr.Gonzo · Feb 27, 2012

You can view it from a different angle.

After a long life of growing, melting, then growing again, the iceberg meets its destiny and is victorious against the metal titan. All the penguins cheer and dance and sing like the ewoks at the end of The Return of the Jedi.

soullesshuman · Feb 27, 2012

If you're asking how to make old themes better again, there tends to be two ways about it.

1. Making it Darker and Edgier, this usually involves stirring up extra drama that wasn't placed there before. For example, a secret lover, or someone's a murderer, or something. The story may change drastically because of this darker and edgier feel, but at its core it will still retrain the idea of the story.

2. Deconstruction, which is to say the writer builds up something that is familiar to people in order to dismantle it viciously and without concern. This is fairly common (I notice) in animes and mangas for some reason. It can also be a lot more effective than the former in that you can take something very beloved by people (say, superman, or batman) and deconstruct it (see: Watchmen) to crate a very stunning effect on people.

EzzyAlpha · Feb 27, 2012

Reconstructions are also quite nice and something I like a lot more

It's basically the opposite of a Deconstruction. You take something that has been deconstructed again and again, like giant robots and superheroes, and you take all the elements that make it happy and awesome and turn it up to eleven.

Err.

Can someone explain this better than me?

soullesshuman · Feb 27, 2012

EzzyAlpha said:
Reconstructions are also quite nice and something I like a lot more

It's basically the opposite of a Deconstruction. You take something that has been deconstructed again and again, like giant robots and superheroes, and you take all the elements that make it happy and awesome and turn it up to eleven.

Err.

Can someone explain this better than me?

Are you talking like Megas XLR style over-the-top?

folkchick · Feb 27, 2012

I would never use someone's plot/storyline as a model for my own. There's a lot of danger that can lurk in direct emulation. And honestly, where's the fun in doing something like that? I can completely understand being influenced on a subconscious level--we all are, but to say, "I think I'll copy this book/film and give it different characters and a new title." I just don't get it. So let's say you rewrite Titanic, but it's a huge bus with sections of separated class. "They say there's going to be a lot of roadblocks tonight." "Yes, well . . . full speed ahead." And then you have Zack and Iris who fall in love but it's doomed because he's from the back of the bus and her family sits in front (at least he has access to the toilet). When it crashes off a bridge and starts to sink into a lake, Zack fights to save Iris, but it's so freaking cold and she won't move her wide arse to share a fender that floated by. Zack dies. Iris makes it to Pittsburg where she changes her name and starts up a falafel stand. Finite. I wonder if James Horner is busy . . .

Devil Ledbetter · Feb 27, 2012

catian said:
For example if we take the Titanic as a movie there is nothing to stop another director from coming along and rewriting the Titanic under 'fictional movie' to give it a better and new twist and gain even more popularity.

Wasn't that The Poseidon Adventure?

Of course, that came out a few decades ahead of the most recent Titanic blockbuster. I don't know which was more popular, but Poseidon was huge during the disaster-movie fad of the '70s.

Catain, I just wrote a detailed post about plots and originality in another thread of yours. I'm having a hard time keeping up with all of your threads, especially since the topics are crossing over extensively.

Jamesaritchie · Feb 27, 2012

catian said:
This is came up as I am in the process of thinking of ways to improving originality and keeping to one uniqueness of writing.

The possibilities of the same plot being rewritten is as popular as the name John and Mary.
So I was thinking in terms of new additions/toosl/twist one can add/substract/renew the same story in order top improve it and make it even better then the first one.

For example if we take the Titanic as a movie there is nothing to stop another director from coming along and rewriting the Titanic under 'fictional movie' to give it a better and new twist and gain even more popularity.

what changes can on writer do/use to perfect one already existing story.
In order how does one do it?

There's nothing to stop anyone from telling the Titantic tale again, but no rewrite is going to give Cameron's movie more popularity.

But wait another twenty years, and someone will try. Cameron's movie was, of course, about as fictional as you can get. But calling something a "fictional movie" doesn't give anyone the right to copy it. And aren't all movies "fictional"? Cameron's sure was.

And you usually don't "make changes", you tell a brand new story using the same basic idea. Unless you're trying to tell a true story as accurately as possible, you leave someone else's recent story along. You won't make it more perfect, you'll just come across as a copycat.

Doing a remake of a very old movie is something else again, but this is mostly a matter of updating, and making changes that brink it closer to today's world.

Anyway, every plot has been done to death. Finding a way to tell an old plot better, a way of saying something new, or saying something old in a way that resonates with current society, is what writing is all about.

But there is no list of ways to do this, of twists and turns, of things to add or subtract. This is where originality and creative ability come in, and only you can figure out how to do this, if you have the ability.

EzzyAlpha · Feb 27, 2012

soullesshuman said:
Are you talking like Megas XLR style over-the-top?

Yes, something like that.

kuwisdelu · Feb 27, 2012

I wouldn't worry about it. Just make it yours. Don't worry about twists or new spins. Unless they come from you, they'll just feel artificial and tacked on.

soullesshuman said:
Are you talking like Megas XLR style over-the-top?

Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann.

EzzyAlpha · Feb 27, 2012

kuwisdelu said:
Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann.

That too.

catian · Feb 27, 2012

Dr.Gonzo said:
You can view it from a different angle.

After a long life of growing, melting, then growing again, the iceberg meets its destiny and is victorious against the metal titan. All the penguins cheer and dance and sing like the ewoks at the end of The Return of the Jedi.

Haha...what a twist in the turn.
Not bad at all.

catian · Feb 27, 2012

dpaterso said:
If you haven't already, you ought to look up how many Titanic movies were made before James Cameron's blockbuster -- and how many have been made since. It's a popular subject!

They each focus on a different set of characters (possibly aside from the famous captain, but even his lines are different in each film).

It's a true event so you can write about it too if you want, just don't borrow anything that's gone before. Make up your own original plot with your own original characters, set against the famous event.

-Derek

Thank Dpaterso.
I think once a story is out then one of the fun thing to do is to remodel that story and give it a new twist.
Who says I can't think of stories to write about?
I mean the Titanic is one.
My idea was to completey delay the trip and build up a story about those people who were on board and showmaybe how they came about deciding to take the trip and write snipets of their private lives outside the Titanic big day.
My story would be a prelude to the Titanic the preparing to maybe a buy a ticket on board.
It is would be a passengers story outside the disaster with perhaps a twist of then never actually sailing away to the new world.
That a completely story but within the Titanic plot if you like.

cbenoi1 · Feb 27, 2012

Dr.Gonzo said:
You can view it from a different angle.

After a long life of growing, melting, then growing again, the iceberg meets its destiny and is victorious against the metal titan. All the penguins cheer and dance and sing like the ewoks at the end of The Return of the Jedi.

Penguins in the northen hemisphere. That's one heck of a plot twist!!

-cb

Devil Ledbetter · Feb 27, 2012

catian said:
My story would be a prelude to the Titanic the preparing to maybe a buy a ticket on board.
It is would be a passengers story outside the disaster with perhaps a twist of then never actually sailing away to the new world.

I don't see much in the way of story stakes for the uninvolved bystanders to the disaster.

I drove past Butter Jesus in a thunderstorm just minutes before it was struck by lightening and engulfed in flames. Here's the story: I had no idea that happened, because I was already a mile or two down the road. The next day, I saw it on the news.

That's not a story; it's an anecdote.

The events leading up to a disaster as told by those who were not even nearby when it happened lacks sufficient drama to carry a novel, IMO. Unless they had loved ones aboard, but even then, it would seem the struggles for your "near miss" characters would come after the disaster, not in the events leading up to it.

quicklime · Feb 27, 2012

the poles flipped, ending life as we know it for most things......just not penguins

catian · Feb 27, 2012

Devil Ledbetter said:
Wasn't that The Poseidon Adventure?

Of course, that came out a few decades ahead of the most recent Titanic blockbuster. I don't know which was more popular, but Poseidon was huge during the disaster-movie fad of the '70s.

Catain, I just wrote a detailed post about plots and originality in another thread of yours. I'm having a hard time keeping up with all of your threads, especially since the topics are crossing over extensively.

Hi Devil Ledbetter so sorry about this.
I have just seen the crossing over in the threads.
I did not realise,apologies again.
I do not know about the Poseidon Adventure.
I will look it up thank you for the link.
I know nothing about the disaster movie fad of the '70s.
What does that mean?

catian · Feb 27, 2012

Devil Ledbetter said:
I don't see much in the way of story stakes for the uninvolved bystanders to the disaster.

I drove past Butter Jesus in a thunderstorm just minutes before it was struck by lightening and engulfed in flames. Here's the story: I had no idea that happened, because I was already a mile or two down the road. The next day, I saw it on the news.

That's not a story; it's an anecdote.

The events leading up to a disaster as told by those who were not even nearby when it happened lacks sufficient drama to carry a novel, IMO. Unless they had loved ones aboard, but even then, it would seem the struggles for your "near miss" characters would come after the disaster, not in the events leading up to it.

Interesting picture you got there Ledbetter haha..
I might work this way :
The passengers and the Titanic tragedy is avoided.
It would be like travelling back and forward within a timeless story.
The story is written in an open time zone meaning time is suspended.
These passengers travel forward to the future oversee the titanic disaster then come back and establish a non titanic disaster.

Dr.Gonzo · Feb 27, 2012

cbenoi1 said:
Penguins in the northen hemisphere. That's one heck of a plot twist!!

-cb

Damn.

cbenoi1 · Feb 27, 2012

Other stolylines involving the Titanic:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0805401989/?tag=absowrit-20

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanic:_Adventure_Out_of_Time

-cb

Devil Ledbetter · Feb 27, 2012

catian said:
Hi Devil Ledbetter so sorry about this.
I have just seen the crossing over in the threads.
I did not realise,apologies again.
I do not know about the Poseidon Adventure.
I will look it up thank you for the link.
I know nothing about the disaster movie fad of the '70s.
What does that mean?

Don't worry about it.

A disaster movie is any movie in which the main event is a disaster: fire, earthquake, plane crash, ship sinking, what have you.

They'll always make disaster movies, but in the early Seventies the genre enjoyed great popularity. Towering Inferno, the "Airport" movies, Earthquake and The Poseidon Adventure were just a few.

Much like Titanic, these movies begin with a focus on the melodramatic backstories of several different characters who will be involved in the disaster. The story gets its tension from viewer's understanding that the oblivious characters will face the disaster. Then the disaster happens, and the characters must overcome whatever it is.

The disaster reframes their melodramatic problems: the whiny teenager helps save the crotchety old lady, the cheating husband realizes he really does love his wife, or what-have-you. Basically, the disaster is used to put everyday characters in hot water and force them into great acts of heroism (or in some cases, cowardice). It allows the characters to outgrow the petty problems they started with.

The thing is, if you write a story that consists only of the events leading up to the disaster, then have your characters conveniently skip out of the disaster, I don't see where they'd have any opportunity for heroism or any story-worthy drama at all. If I read a story structured this way, I'd think it was a major cop-out on the part of an author who felt his characters were too precious to face harm.

And that sounds boring to me.

catian · Feb 27, 2012

cbenoi1 said:
Other stolylines involving the Titanic:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0805401989/?tag=absowrit-20

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanic:_Adventure_Out_of_Time

-cb

Hi cbenoi1
Thank you for the links,I have never actually seen this.
Murder On The Titanic
seems rather interesting and a bit tricky considering the boat is going to sink anyway..misplotting there maybe

catian · Feb 27, 2012

Devil Ledbetter said:
Don't worry about it.

A disaster movie is any movie in which the main event is a disaster: fire, earthquake, plane crash, ship sinking, what have you.

They'll always make disaster movies, but in the early Seventies the genre enjoyed great popularity. Towering Inferno, the "Airport" movies, Earthquake and The Poseidon Adventure were just a few.

I was not aware of this at all. How interesting.

The disaster reframes their melodramatic problems: the whiny teenager helps save the crotchety old lady, the cheating husband realizes he really does love his wife, or what-have-you. Basically, the disaster is used to put everyday characters in hot water and force them into great acts of heroism (or in some cases, cowardice). It allows the characters to outgrow the petty problems they started with.

Actually this reminds me of story Isaw by Stanley Kubric with Hugh Grant and another famous actors on board ship.
And I think Hugh Grant end up having an affair with this woman. It was a long time ago..I cannot remember the title. It was almost a thriller...good movie though..

the pitfalls of repetition and how to overide it

catian

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