The Making of Characters

catian · Feb 23, 2012

I often read about follow writers having a 'hardtime' dealing with characters.
Dilemmas varies from wanting to 'keep a character' to not wanting to ''kill them off'' to ''feeling sorry for them'' or generally having trouble dealing with them.
This has astounded me because I honestly was not aware (again I know) that lots of writers go through these motions.
I can't be the only who does not have any troubles of this sort.
When I started writing I made my mind up about how to manage/deal with all my characters and that is of keeping them all regardless of the story.

the question is:

Do you find it easy to kill off a charcter for example?

Bufty · Feb 23, 2012

What?

Caitan, I admire your enthusiasm, but why do you open thread after thread after thread?

They are mostly observations as opposed to meaningful questions.

What are you doing with all the answers?

seun · Feb 23, 2012

catian said:
When I started writing I made my mind up about how to manage/deal with all my characters and that is of keeping them all regardless of the story.

So even if you had a story which required a death, you'd keep that character alive? Is that what you're saying?

catian · Feb 23, 2012

seun said:
So even if you had a story which required a death, you'd keep that character alive? Is that what you're saying?

I write without it.
I don't do 'death' in my stories.
I might sound boring but I chose this option to avoid disappointment.

catian · Feb 23, 2012

Bufty said:
What?

Caitan, I admire your enthusiasm, but why do you open thread after thread after thread?

They are mostly observations as opposed to meaningful questions.

What are you doing with all the answers?

I research my work so I tend to see what's out there.
I think as a writer one needs to be aware of what works for some and what does not for others.

jeffo20 · Feb 23, 2012

catian said:
How do you find dealing your characters along the way of creating your stories?

I'll be honest with you, I don't understand the question.

catian said:
Few writer friends I know talk about howthey find it difficult to kill off a character but they have to because the story demands it for example.

catian said:
When I started writing I made my mind up about how to manage/deal with all my characters and that is of keeping them all regardless of the story.

So, in other words, you've got your story and characters kind of pre-determined in your head, and you know that none of them will die. So the story never gets away from you? Never wants to take an unexpected turn? Or, if it does, you don't let it?

As for me, I let the story go where it feels like it needs to go. If that means a character dies (or kills someone, for that matter), then so be it. That's what works for me.

catian said:
I write without it.
I don't do 'death' in my stories.
I might sound boring but I chose this option to avoid disappointment.

It's not 'boring', that's a personal choice you've made. But it seems to me that it cuts off a certain degree of creativity. Sometimes, death needs to happen.

Laure de Sade · Feb 23, 2012

There was a YA novel I read where a bus full of children gets hijacked, and one of the kids is shot by a terrorist. Apparently the author couldn't stand the prospect of killing off a child who he had characterised, so he wrote the death scene before the chapters in which the child is portrayed. This seems pretty sappy to me. In my creative writing classes, we're always being encouraged to be sadists, to make our characters suffer, etc.

Orchestra · Feb 23, 2012

catian, can you tell more abut your decision to not include death in your work. What was your reasoning? What is the problem you are trying to solve with this decision?

catian · Feb 23, 2012

jeffo20 said:
I'll be honest with you, I don't understand the question.

So, in other words, you've got your story and characters kind of pre-determined in your head, and you know that none of them will die. So the story never gets away from you? Never wants to take an unexpected turn? Or, if it does, you don't let it?

As for me, I let the story go where it feels like it needs to go. If that means a character dies (or kills someone, for that matter), then so be it. That's what works for me.

It's not 'boring', that's a personal choice you've made. But it seems to me that it cuts off a certain degree of creativity. Sometimes, death needs to happen.

It just means I get to focus on the idea of the story and not rely on the characters to do the story for me.
By keeping them all I keep my options open for more plots developments.
What makes my stories is the actual idea/topic , the characters are the conductors of the story and not the reason for a story.
One example I can think of to compare it with is:
The Punch and Judy.
The puppets are kept alive and made to come back everytime for the puppeteers to conduct the story. The puppeteers do not get to destroy the puppets it is not possible for them to do so.
Without the puppeteers there is not continuity of the Punch and Judy if you like.

catian · Feb 23, 2012

Laure de Sade said:
There was a YA novel I read where a bus full of children gets hijacked, and one of the kids is shot by a terrorist. Apparently the author couldn't stand the prospect of killing off a child who he had characterised, so he wrote the death scene before the chapters in which the child is portrayed. This seems pretty sappy to me. In my creative writing classes, we're always being encouraged to be sadists, to make our characters suffer, etc.

I am surprised you are encouraged to be these saddist people that you are not in reality.
I would have big problems with these classes.
It is not a one way situation.
It is about your way first.
He or she is telling you to do it their way/that way.
Where is the YOU in all of this.
I think you need to develop your very own ideas first to be able to write your way.
IT makes no sense to be told to follow a certain way because it kills of your originlity.
I think there is more to a story then meet the eyes.
Relying on others to tell us what to do is not the way to go about it. I would always question it.

catian · Feb 23, 2012

Orchestra said:
catian, can you tell more abut your decision to not include death in your work. What was your reasoning? What is the problem you are trying to solve with this decision?

Hi Orchestra
I chose not to kill of any of my characters because I like to offer my readers consistancy through my stories via characters they get to know very well.
Familiarity breed ease and makes things less stressfull in order to cope with everyday life and that includes reading too.
I wish to establish a link between me and my readers by giving them characters and not taking them away from them.
I do not wish to disappoint/upset them nor lose their interests.
Onec I established that then I can vary and change my stories/plots by bringing one character from say story A, and another from story H and joining them to write a new story.
When my reader picks up the story he/she will recognise the two or three characters from past stories A and H they would have read in the past.
It is like a game/ a signature if you like.
This is in the hope that my readers would want to read more of my stories because they would want to know which other characters will there in the next stories and so on.
Also there is also that elementof my readers getting to learn about the characters more and more as the stories build up.
Acquiring knowledge about someone or something is very satisfying.
So I keep the characters and write more stories by crossing characters here there and everywhere
Sometimes I would make it obvious to my readers who the characters are/were and sometimes I won't.
It is up to my reader to see if he or she can remember/discover/guess who the characters are.
Just something to keep the reader coming back.
I hope this makes some sense

quicklime · Feb 23, 2012

catian said:
I am surprised you are encouraged to be these saddist people that you are not in reality.
I would have big problems with these classes.
It is not a one way situation.
It is about your way first.
He or she is telling you to do it their way/that way.
Where is the YOU in all of this.
I think you need to develop your very own ideas first to be able to write your way.
IT makes no sense to be told to follow a certain way because it kills of your originlity.
I think there is more to a story then meet the eyes.
Relying on others to tell us what to do is not the way to go about it. I would always question it.

i would flip this; in your case it seems you are suggesting, in this and other threads, that YOU are the end-all and be-all of the story. For me, my characters are.....that means sometimes folks die on me, or make others die. That makes me, in my mind, less a sadist than a realist.

quicklime · Feb 23, 2012

catian said:
I write without it.
I don't do 'death' in my stories.
I might sound boring but I chose this option to avoid disappointment.

yours or the readers?

shaldna · Feb 23, 2012

catian said:
Do you find it easy to kill off a charcter for example?

Yes. Even if I love the character, the story and what's best for the story come first. If that character has to go, then they go.

I want to write the best story I can, I don't want to be a slave to my feelings for a character.

Devil Ledbetter · Feb 23, 2012

The most "trouble" I had killing a character happened when I was too far (emotionally) in POV. I knew a certain character had to die, but the POV character refused to get around to telling me about it. I started to wonder if that other character was ever going to die. I mean, I started questioning my whole plot.

I sat my POV character down for an interview and asked him whether the other character actually died or not. He said he did die, but that it was too painful for him to talk about.

Of course.

He suggested I interview the character who dies. I was incredulous, but did the interview. The character who dies laid his whole death scene out for me.

My characters are not my puppets. I am not writing a TV series where no characters can die because I'll need them for future episode. I always see my novels as my characters' stories, which they've bestowed me with the responsibility to faithfully tell. It's not about me, but them.

I write novels with a beginning, middle and an end. There is always a possibility that a character will die along the way.

catian · Feb 23, 2012

quicklime said:
yours or the readers?

Both.
I think beyond the book and the characters.
I suppose I care that one or two or more readers form an attachment with the characters, they happen to like them,see themselves in them, identify with them and so by not killing the characters off/taking them away if you like, I allow the reader that sense of identity to live on beyond the story.
For me I wish to carry on writing stories by bringing past characters alongside new ones in a new storie.
I call it recycling my characters to write more stories.

quicklime · Feb 23, 2012

i think i would have difficulty with reading that, as I'm well out of Disney's market. It would just feel saccharin and artificial.

Bubastes · Feb 23, 2012

Devil Ledbetter said:
My characters are not my puppets. I am not writing a TV series where no characters can die because I'll need them for future episode. I always see my novels as my characters' stories, which they've bestowed me with the responsibility to faithfully tell. It's not about me, but them.

I agree. The stories are about my characters, not about me. My job is to get out of their way and simply be the conduit for their stories.

To quicklime's point: heck, even Disney killed Bambi's mom and Simba's dad.

catian · Feb 23, 2012

Devil Ledbetter said:
The most "trouble" I had killing a character happened when I was too far (emotionally) in POV. I knew a certain character had to die, but the POV character refused to get around to telling me about it. I started to wonder if that other character was ever going to die. I mean, I started questioning my whole plot.

I sat my POV character down for an interview and asked him whether the other character actually died or not. He said he did die, but that it was too painful for him to talk about.

Of course.

He suggested I interview the character who dies. I was incredulous, but did the interview. The character who dies laid his whole death scene out for me.

My characters are not my puppets. I am not writing a TV series where no characters can die because I'll need them for future episode. I always see my novels as my characters' stories, which they've bestowed me with the responsibility to faithfully tell. It's not about me, but them.

I write novels with a beginning, middle and an end. There is always a possibility that a character will die along the way.

Sorry I am still getting to grip with the meaning of POV.
Is that point of view?

I sat my POV character down for an interview and asked him whether the other character actually died or not. He said he did die, but that it was too painful for him to talk about.

I am not following here.
How did you do the interview?

seun · Feb 23, 2012

catian said:
Both.
I think beyond the book and the characters.
I suppose I care that one or two or more readers form an attachment with the characters, they happen to like them,see themselves in them, identify with them and so by not killing the characters off/taking them away if you like, I allow the reader that sense of identity to live on beyond the story.
For me I wish to carry on writing stories by bringing past characters alongside new ones in a new storie.
I call it recycling my characters to write more stories.

To me, it doesn't sound like you're thinking about the book and characters at all. It sounds like you can't bear to let the characters tell the story.

Good fiction is not about the author. It's about the characters and their story. Whether or not they all live or all die doesn't matter. What matters is telling their story honestly.

Devil Ledbetter · Feb 23, 2012

catian said:
I suppose I care that one or two or more readers form an attachment with the characters, they happen to like them,see themselves in them, identify with them and so by not killing the characters off/taking them away if you like, I allow the reader that sense of identity to live on beyond the story.

In one of my favorite novels, Let the Great World Spin by Colum McCann, there was a character I adored. In the story, he was killed. McCann, though, is a genius. He made me fall in love with this character, then he killed him, then he provided out-of-sequence scenes where this beloved character was still alive.

Those scenes were heartbreaking because I knew what was coming for that character, and I missed him, and there he was again. It was like seeing a dead loved one alive, behind glass, and wanting to yell to him how he could avoid his terrible fate. But I couldn't.

It killed me. I was totally sucked in by that. It was so great. And McCann never could have achieved that if he'd kept that character like a puppet for future use.

Here's the thing, Caitain: Puppets aren't alive. Good characters are. Good characters are interesting and human and they can die. Puppets are already lifeless, and that's why they're boring.

Orchestra · Feb 23, 2012

catian said:
I chose not to kill of any of my characters because I like to offer my readers consistancy through my stories via characters they get to know very well.

I didn't realize you had a series of stories featuring the same cast. Not having them die makes sense in this case.

Devil Ledbetter · Feb 23, 2012

catian said:
Sorry I am still getting to grip with the meaning of POV.
Is that point of view?

I am not following here.
How did you do the interview?

Yes, POV is shorthand for point of view. It's the character through whom we're witnessing the story.

A character interview is a freewriting role play exercise where I am both the interviewer and the character. I just sit down somewhere quiet and ask my character open ended questions, and let him answer. I don't try to guide his answers at all. I let him surprise me.

Usually once the character gets into it I'll end up with a rough, rambling scene he's described in first person present tense. I'll then render that into a tight scene. I would say most, if not all of my favorite scenes come to me this way.

If the role play isn't flowing I'll tell the character that I'm rescheduling the interview and I want him to think about these issues (whatever story questions/stuck points I have). Then I'll try it again a few day later.

This is a no-fail technique for me, but it doesn't work for everyone. You have to be comfortable enough with letting the story and characters run free, and have their own opinions and feelings. It helps if you think of yourself as a reporter of their story rather than a god manipulating puppets.

Lyra Jean · Feb 23, 2012

Sometimes keeping a character alive makes the story worse. The Left Behind series. The female main character, I don't even remember her name anymore, was pregnant and in hiding.

She came down with pre-eclampsia and while they did have a doctor he was just a GP and not an Ob/Gyn. He told her he didn't know much but what he remember was that she needed to be on full bed rest until the baby was born. But she didn't and went on some sort of mission or kept watch which meant going outside in the rain. For all intents and purposes she should have died. It ruined the entire series for me because she ended up not dieing until the next to last book.

Also the author broke his own rules within the story to keep this character alive.

folkchick · Feb 23, 2012

Maybe you could let one of your characters commit suicide, that way you wouldn't really be killing them.

The Making of Characters

Where have the last ten years gone?

Horror Man

Tyrant King

practical experience, GTFO

all out of fucks to give

all out of fucks to give

The cake is a lie. But still cake.

Come on you stranger, you legend,

all out of fucks to give

bananaed

Horror Man

Come on you stranger, you legend,

practical experience, GTFO

Come on you stranger, you legend,

Two years old now.

Not a new kid