Suicide in YA

You might want to read Leah Clifford's A Touch Mortal. It's a fallen angel book, but it had a really interesting and, I'd say, unprecedented view of suicide for YA. It didn't really sit well with me at times.

There be spoilers ahead, but not more than what you learn in like chapter 2.

Unbeknownst to her, in order to get her powers, the MC has to kill herself and come back to life as a "Sider". So the love interest and his best friend sabotage her life in order to get her to kill herself. The LI tells her he doesn't love her anymore, etc. I found to be really awful and the whole book kind of glorified suicide, in my opinion.

Well. Obviously my book is filled with "suicides."
But I remember thinking I shouldn't get too creative with the methods because I don't want to be the person who taught that depressed kid what an "exit bag" is.

I have a sort of morally gray relationship with suicide, anyway.

This doesn't answer the question. I should probably stop procrastinating and get back to work...

The book that comes to mind is "Of Mice and Men".

***IF YOU HAVEN'T READ IT, THERE IS A SPOILER AHEAD!***

Although Lenny, one of the MCs, didn't kill himself, it was pretty much the same because his best friend killed him. Not maliciously, but because he knew he needed to. Kind of like putting down an animal. Anyway, although that was a sad ending, it sat well with me because it was a nice resolution. I'd say it's fine as long as the suicide is for a sensible reason, you're ok. If the guy is depressed and just decides to kill himself, well, that isn't so good...

I don't get the hand-wringing over 'glorification', to be honest.

You're a writer, you're writing a story not a Life&Choices booklet. Not every story has a happy ending or a moral, and not every story has strong characters who end up riding off into the sunset - and, actually, even 'strong' people suicide. Stories should encompass all the spectrum of human emotion, action and reaction, at least in my opinion. There is something to be 'learned' in tragedies too.

I can't remember any book where I've seen this happen (and if I did, it certainly isn't in YA), but I'm not totally against using it.

However, one potential issue is that it could be seen as an "easy way out."

If it is a fitting end for the character, then yeah, go for it.

My MC has an attempted suicide in his past, but unfortunately for him one of his brothers knew he wasn't just sleeping. I was toying around with the idea of him killing himself at the end but I'm a pansy and didn't go through with it.

Anyway, I actually kind of like suicide as an ending. It's not that I enjoy the idea of teenagers killing themselves, but it's realistic in a lot of cases and sometimes it's just a fitting end for a character. Sometimes it does not occur to even the smartest teenagers that "it gets better."

Suicide is such a complicated topic. It's not always "well... life sucks", many times there is an underlying reason for suicide aside from the fact that you can't handle life anymore. Maybe your suicide helps someone else. Don't ask me for a scenario, but... maybe.

I have yet to read Thirteen Reasons Why but the title has been thrown around so much that I think I'll have to go borrow it from the library tomorrow.

Hope I helped, even just a bit

breaking_burgundy said:

I can't remember any book where I've seen this happen

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Ah, I remembered one. The Virgin Suicides. That book handled it pretty well (better than Thirteen Reasons Why IMHO.)

I think it could work. I remember reading Goethe's The Sufferings of Young Werther (not that that's YA, but whatever) when I was like 18 and being really affected by it. And I always liked Romeo and Juliet as a teen. I'd be interested to see how it turns out if you do it.

ETA: I was all about dramatic melancholy as a teenager. I can only assume there's still a big market for that.

I think you could end with a suicide without glorifying it. (Especially if you show the people left behind.)

rendezvous_with_leon said:

Anyway, I actually kind of like suicide as an ending. It's not that I enjoy the idea of teenagers killing themselves, but it's realistic in a lot of cases and sometimes it's just a fitting end for a character. Sometimes it does not occur to even the smartest teenagers that "it gets better."

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Just wanted to point out that suicide rates among teenagers are actually LOWER than most other age groups. Where I live, you certainly wouldn't know that from the articles in the paper....

Canadian stats:
Men: http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/hlth66e-eng.htm
Women: http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/hlth66f-eng.htm

For men, suicide rates from 15-19 are actually lower than every adult age group. Suicide rates peak in middle age for men and women, and again in old age for men.

American stats:
http://www.suicide.org/suicide-statistics.html

@LDJ in the US suicide rates amount middle school aged kids have been climbing.

I also think suicide is less troublesome when the person is old enough to make such a choice. I cant think of many rational reasons why a middle aged or older person would want to kill themselves. But a 10 year old? Not so much.

I have a suicide in one of my YAs, but it's a supporting character--not so "mainish." I thought long and hard about it. There's a small theme connected to it.

missesdash said:

I also think suicide is less troublesome when the person is old enough to make such a choice. I cant think of many rational reasons why a middle aged or older person would want to kill themselves. But a 10 year old? Not so much.

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Actually, missesdash, aside from debates about end of life and dying with dignity, I can't *ever* see a rational reason for suicide.

Almost by definition, in my view.

I'm fond of tragedies, so I'm biased.

I think it's smart and thoughtful for an author to consider whether his/her book glorifies something unintentionally. But we all know that an art form will be interpreted by the public in all kinds of ways. Personally, if I wrote a book that included a suicide, and I felt I was true to the story I wanted to tell, that's the most important thing.

robjvargas said:

Actually, missesdash, aside from debates about end of life and dying with dignity, I can't *ever* see a rational reason for suicide.

Almost by definition, in my view.

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If an adult has lived a full life and no longer has any dependents, they're free to do whatever they want with their life, and that includes ending it. Or at least it should.

As it stands now, only the government can legally kill you. Hilarious and sad.

Becca C. said:

You might want to read Leah Clifford's A Touch Mortal. It's a fallen angel book, but it had a really interesting and, I'd say, unprecedented view of suicide for YA. It didn't really sit well with me at times.

There be spoilers ahead, but not more than what you learn in like chapter 2.

Unbeknownst to her, in order to get her powers, the MC has to kill herself and come back to life as a "Sider". So the love interest and his best friend sabotage her life in order to get her to kill herself. The LI tells her he doesn't love her anymore, etc. I found to be really awful and the whole book kind of glorified suicide, in my opinion.

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Urgh, that sounds awful. I don't think I'd have even finished that.

Anyway, *guiltily raises hand* one of my characters commits suicide. Or at least, tries to, but survives, and his life is even worse afterwards. I'd like to think I'm not glorifying suicide because I made it clear that if he hadn't attempted it, he would've been better off (keen rugby player, screwed up his leg with the jump). But it fitted the character, with his state of mind, and was the next logical step for him.

It's one of those "tread with caution" territories for me. Too much first hand experience with suicidal people. So I tend to wince and groan at a lot of the cliches and just gross assumptions that are made about it. I don't know, it's definitely possible to do and do well. Just not one of those things I'd seek out willingly.

That said, I pull out the "Research 'til you're blue in the face, please!" card for anyone writing or considering writing it. No, reasons for suicide aren't rational. But those with suicidal ideation aren't really in a rational state of mind. To them it's a logical solution. To us on the outside, it's a symptom. At the very least I urge a lot of compassion toward the subject.

To all the people who are saying that they don't get why glorification is bad:

I don't think that YA is/should be didactic. But - and I say this as a teenager, someone who has absolute respect for teens - teens are impressionable people. I've met loads and loads of teens who believe that Romeo & Juliet is a great love story.

This is going to turn into a slightly wider rant on the nature of 'glorification.' I don't agree with the people who think that, for instance, sex is 'glorified' in YA and should always result in people a) getting pregnant; b) getting a disease; c) having their heart broken. Because sex is not an inherently bad thing. But, to me, suicide is an inherently bad thing. Suicide results in lives lost, sad/lonely/messed-up people with problems that will never be fixed.

To me, the key of treating suicide responsibly/respectfully is not to make it look like some wonderful cure-all OR like some through-the-ages love story (like the popular concept of Romeo and Juliet). To me, the reason why the investigating-a-suicide or getting-over-a-suicide is more generally palatable is that it's easy to show what an impulsive and devestating act suicide is. I find the concept of A Touch Mortal to be disgusting because it suggests that good things come out of suicide. It buys into this idea of suicide as a grand, definitive act, not the sad/desperate act that it is to me.

However: I don't have any problems with a character being driven to suicide. For instance, if a really brutal book like SOME GIRLS ARE had ended in suicide, I wouldn't have seen that as a glorification of suicide but a manifestation of how screwed-up the person is/was.

The_Ink_Goddess said:

But, to me, suicide is an inherently bad thing. Suicide results in lives lost, sad/lonely/messed-up people with problems that will never be fixed.

To me, the key of treating suicide responsibly/respectfully is not to make it look like some wonderful cure-all OR like some through-the-ages love story (like the popular concept of Romeo and Juliet). To me, the reason why the investigating-a-suicide or getting-over-a-suicide is more generally palatable is that it's easy to show what an impulsive and devestating act suicide is. I find the concept of A Touch Mortal to be disgusting because it suggests that good things come out of suicide. It buys into this idea of suicide as a grand, definitive act, not the sad/desperate act that it is to me.

However: I don't have any problems with a character being driven to suicide. For instance, if a really brutal book like SOME GIRLS ARE had ended in suicide, I wouldn't have seen that as a glorification of suicide but a manifestation of how screwed-up the person is/was.

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You present very good points, and I hope my comment previously didn't make it seem like I didn't think the glorification of suicide is a bad thing. It's certainly something I would take seriously if I were writing about a suicide. That said, I think even the most careful and sensitive authors may be accused of glorification by some segment of the public just for talking about the subject, which I find ridiculous.

I wouldn't glorify suicide, just like I wouldn't glorify anything unless the character saw it in that light. It's kind of like the Lolita situation. Does Nabakov think pedophilia is a good thing? Probably not. Does Humbert think pedophilia is a good thing? Yes. Well, kind of.

I don't think suicide is glorious. My opinion on it varies from situation to situation. I find it kind of amusing that it's illegal to kill yourself with assistance in the USA.

I have a character and his girlfriend think of various ways to pull a flawless Columbine without getting caught, or different ways to kill a person without drawing suspicion to yourself. Does that mean I support it? No. Is it super relevant to the plot? Yes. I actually have to describe the methods to prove that I'm not just pulling shit out of thin air about how smart my characters are.

As for suicide in YA? Well, people say they don't want anorexics to read Wintergirls because it gives them too many ways to "cheat".

Of course, my opinion on this is rather biased.

Def probably going to be seen as glorification. But if you can make it work, you can pull off anything. That's really general, but I don't think any writer should be afraid of touching on a sensitive topic (suicide) or something that might be mistaken for glorification of it (Romeo/Juliet suicide ending) just because of what readers might think. If you can make it really awesome-- go for it. You just have to be prepared to handle some of those criticisms.

Ah, I remembered one. The Virgin Suicides. That book handled it pretty well (better than Thirteen Reasons Why IMHO.)
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Do you think The Virgin Suicides is YA? I always considered it straight literary fiction. In either case, it's a favourite of mine.

I recently posted a synopsis and query for my literary novel (THE WOOD OF SUICIDES) and have had people comment that it sounds like YA, despite the fact that the MC commits suicide. So...who knows?

My novel Cluing In has the pregnancy, abortion, and suicide of a secondary character as the major plot point. The character is the ex-girlfriend of the narrator and she keeps coming to him for help, but since he's angry with her for their break-up and for immediately moving on to another guy, he turns her away. When she takes her life, he blames himself; the rest of the novel from that point is his dealing with his own depression and even considering suicide because he feels it's his fault that his ex chose that route, and his eventually finding help and making peace with himself.

I don't think I glorified suicide in the story; I made the pain of those left behind obvious, and it's pointed out a couple times that the girl could have made other choices.

Regardless of the stats on teen suicide, in my work as a teacher and with my daughters' friends, I've known a number of teens who, while they haven't committed or attempted suicide, have sunk low enough to consider it. I was one of those teens myself. So I think it's important to present in YA fiction, if it's done well and in a way that doesn't encourage it.

Laure de Sade said:

Do you think The Virgin Suicides is YA? I always considered it straight literary fiction. In either case, it's a favourite of mine.

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The Virgin Suicides is a non-YA example.

LJD said:

I think you could end with a suicide without glorifying it. (Especially if you show the people left behind.)




Just wanted to point out that suicide rates among teenagers are actually LOWER than most other age groups. Where I live, you certainly wouldn't know that from the articles in the paper....

Canadian stats:
Men: http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/hlth66e-eng.htm
Women: http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/hlth66f-eng.htm

For men, suicide rates from 15-19 are actually lower than every adult age group. Suicide rates peak in middle age for men and women, and again in old age for men.

American stats:
http://www.suicide.org/suicide-statistics.html

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I said teenagers because this, you know, is a YA forum.


That is interesting though, I would have assumed it was highest among teenagers anyway.