Too, er, twisted?

owlion · Feb 22, 2012

I had an idea for a story but I'm not sure if it's too much for a MG novel.

Basically, the MC is offered something she really wants/needs in exchange for her committing a murder. Would that be okay for a MG book?

Thanks in advance for any replies!

P.S. I know this gets asked a lot, sorry! I just wanted to make sure.

Her Dark Star · Feb 22, 2012

I would have found that fine but then I read a lot more than average at that age and different have a problem with things with twisted. Part of the answer lies in whether they accept and who the target is. If the target is the Child Catcher, then it would probably be more acceptable than killing the MC's parents or a dear old lady.
On the other hand regardless of whether the audience would accept/like it (pretty sure they would), the question of whether any publisher would accept it I'll let someone else answer

heza · Feb 22, 2012

This reminds me of the conversation I heard on the radio this morning. The DJs were asking kids what they wanted to be when they grew up:

DJ1: What do you want to be when you grow up?
5-year-old Boy: A sniper.
DJ2: You know that snipers kill people, right?
Boy: Yeah.
DJ2: And you wouldn't have any trouble killing people?
Boy: Nope.
DJ1: How much money do you think snipers make?
Boy: One hundred dollars.
DJ!: How many people do you think you'd have to kill to make $500?
Boy: Uhhh...

I guess kids have a concept of murder.

I've been told, with my questionable stuff, it matters how you present it. Does she carry through with it?

RexZentah · Feb 22, 2012

As an idea in itself, it is perfect.

Here's a book I heard of that is on this topic...FASCINATE, by Sally
Hogshead.

She a marketing consultant. There are seven ways, according to Ms. Hogshead (love that attribution), to inspire fascination. One, is through vice: what does your character do that could be perceived as 'wrong?'

The book is about marketing yourself but, I find it easily applies to fictional characterization, also.

Ferret · Feb 22, 2012

heza said:
I've been told, with my questionable stuff, it matters how you present it. Does she carry through with it?

I agree--presentation matters. Does the MC consider the moral ramifications? Does the MC go through with it? Is the target a good guy or a bad guy? Is the book fantasy or realistic?

I read a science fiction MG novel in which the main character and her family killed a lot of people. It worked because (1) it wasn't realistic, (2) the MC felt really bad about it, and (3) the ultimate lesson was that killing was bad.

I think that with MG, more than with adult fiction, you have to look at the message and decide whether it's one parents and educators would want to share with children. But certainly some very bad stuff can happen, as long as it's handled well.

owlion · Feb 23, 2012

Thanks for the replies!

The story is set is a sci-fi alternate reality, with some very unrealistic parts. The MC wouldn't like the idea and she may or may not go through with it (I haven't decided quite that far yet, it's still in the planning process. If she did go through with it, she would hate herself). She would be going to kill a stranger she's met once and who is very morally ambiguous. Ultimately, it would probably show that nothing is worth killing for.
Does that sound like it would be okay?

Vivid · Feb 23, 2012

laurie17 said:
Thanks for the replies!

The story is set is a sci-fi alternate reality, with some very unrealistic parts. The MC wouldn't like the idea and she may or may not go through with it (I haven't decided quite that far yet, it's still in the planning process. If she did go through with it, she would hate herself). She would be going to kill a stranger she's met once and who is very morally ambiguous. Ultimately, it would probably show that nothing is worth killing for.
Does that sound like it would be okay?

I think it sounds awesome, TBH. It'd be upper middle grade, for sure, but depending on presentation it's still mg.

Ferret · Feb 23, 2012

To make it work for MG, I probably wouldn't have her go through with it. Or, if she did go through with it, I would really force her into the situation and possibly make it somewhat of an accident. It does sound like upper MG, lower YA.

Have you read The Shifter? The MC deals with a somewhat similar situation. Plus, it's really good.

Lineykins · Feb 23, 2012

It sounds more YA than MG to me.

Ferret · Feb 23, 2012

Lineykins said:
It sounds more YA than MG to me.

Yeah, it's definitely getting into YA territory, but I think it could be in that tween, upper MG, lower YA range depending on how it's handled. The Shifter seems to fit into this category, and I've seen it grouped with MG before. (I've also seen it grouped with YA, though.)

I guess it comes down to the same advice as always: write it now, worry about marketing it later. I wouldn't make the MC too young, though.

RexZentah · Feb 23, 2012

I second the YA

I filled in the blank...what happens to a child who comes close to or commits murder? They become an adult. That makes it coming-of-age and that places your story in YA.

It's elementary my dear (old) Watson.

I betcha just can't soil the MC's hands like that in an MG. It's just too adult. The villain can die by somebody else's hands but imagine Bilbo Baggins killing Smaug the dragon or Azog the orc king? It would take the character too far.

Ferret · Feb 23, 2012

Having the MC kill is tricky territory in MG, and it's something I've avoided, but it's not completely unheard of. (Although it is far more common in YA and could affect the book's classification.)

I actually asked a similar question about this several months ago. Here's the link: http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211273

I've read a couple of solidly MG books since then that have the MC killing someone, Hungry being one.

owlion · Feb 23, 2012

Hmmm, it's strange. Around where I live, books like The Shifter and Hungry are considered YA (I've read both and, if they were considered MG, my story would be fine, lol). Maybe it's less acceptable for that level of violence in the UK market, I'm not sure.

I may just make it YA. I think it would work either way, probably.

Thanks for the replies!

The feedback was very helpful!

cara · Feb 24, 2012

I think YA would be a safer bet, but I'd love something like that in MG! As a kid I loved horror and scifi, so it would have appealed, but maybe not to a wide enough audience to be published. Publishers like new stuff, but would want something that wouldn't be too controversial, especially for kids.

catian · Feb 24, 2012

Hi can I ask what an MG is?
sorry I am not good with abbreviations.
I personally would not be happy for my kids to read something like this is a book.
There is enough violence on TV I would say.
Again I am not trying to be rude but this is my honest opinion.
I do have one grown up kid and I would definetely know he would not see this kind plot exciting.
This is my honest opinion.

RexZentah · Feb 24, 2012

MG means Middle Grade. I think the writing for kids forum should be broken into PBs and MGs. No offense easy, early, and chapter book writers.

scarecrow · Feb 24, 2012

RexZentah said:
MG means Middle Grade. I think the writing for kids forum should be broken into PBs and MGs. No offense easy, early, and chapter book writers.

I agree, in my short time here I've noticed several questions geared toward writing for kids. There is such a difference in the PB and chapter books and what a 4th grade and up can handle in reading and conceptually.

As to the question of murder my initial answer was no. As a mom I would not want my children reading that, but after you put it into context I think it would be fine. You can't cover ethics without talking about what is unethical. Placing it in another world keeps it at enough distance as not to be off putting. I would have problems if it were more of a reality piece. You are definitely knocking at the door of YA though. You may want to consider the age of your MC to be more acceptable to both.

Smish · Feb 24, 2012

RexZentah said:
MG means Middle Grade. I think the writing for kids forum should be broken into PBs and MGs. No offense easy, early, and chapter book writers.

As the room mod, I disagree, simply because I see no need for it. There are many members who write and/or read PBs, CBs, and MG novels. Dividing the room would cause confusion and overlap in that regard. There are also issues that pertain to kidlit as a whole, across all age categories.

Furthermore, the room simply isn't big enough to seperate. New threads aren't posted with such frequency that threads are quickly buried on page 2, so there's no problem navigating the room. And I don't see the room being dominated by PBs or MG. There seems to be a happy coexistence in the room, so I'm not inclined to change anything.

Now, feel free to carry on with the discussion stemming from the OP. If anyone feels the need to discuss the issue of dividing the room, I'd suggest PMing me directly, or creating a thread dedicated to that topic.

owlion · Feb 24, 2012

Thank you for the feedback

To be honest, I mostly wanted to make this a MG book as something that was more challenging to younger audiences, as there are dark MG books, but nothing that is concerned with issues such as this (I know it's because children should only be exposed to so much, but many 12-year-olds I know/knew as a kid were very into serious stuff).

Again, thanks for the replies!

t0dd · Feb 24, 2012

laurie17 said:
Basically, the MC is offered something she really wants/needs in exchange for her committing a murder. Would that be okay for a MG book?

Technically, this does happen in "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz", where the Wizard will only send Dorothy home and give her friends the brains/heart/courage they want if they'll get rid of the Wicked Witch of the West for him.

MsJudy · Feb 24, 2012

There are plenty of MG fantasies where kids kill off monsters and other not-quite-human villains. Skulduggery Pleasant, Lightning Thief, etc. Harry Potter kills quite a few folks, if I remember right...though not all of them agree to stay dead.

The more the victim deserves to die and the less human they seem, the more you can get away with, probably.

If you have a realistic, contemporary story, and the intended victim is an innocent person, then I think you're straying into real creepiness. Especially if the MC follows through...

owlion · Feb 26, 2012

Hmm, I don't think it would end up being like 'London to Brighton' or anything (if you've seen the film, you know what I mean), but she would in a position where she would have the choice to kill someone she can't judge herself as morally good or bad (she would be given information that the person is bad, but technically, he's just doing his job - plus, he is one of the people who've put her in the position of needing what the person who offered her the deal is offering). She probably wouldn't kill him, but I think it might work better as YA regardless, thinking about it, as it contains a lot of social commentary which YAs would probably appreciate more.

Thanks again

Too, er, twisted?

owlion

Absorbing inspiration from the moon

Her Dark Star

heza

RexZentah

Ferret

Dook!

owlion

Absorbing inspiration from the moon

Vivid

New kid, be gentle!

Ferret

Dook!

Lineykins

Ferret

Dook!

RexZentah

Ferret

Dook!

owlion

Absorbing inspiration from the moon

cara

catian

RexZentah

scarecrow

If I only had a brain...

Smish

Reads more than she writes.

owlion

Absorbing inspiration from the moon

t0dd

MsJudy

owlion

Absorbing inspiration from the moon